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The Witness using 5GB RAM so far
- Thread starter shinobi602
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dragonelite
Member
How will this game run on ios then? where he only has access to like 50~100mb of ram.
Robot Pants
Member
How the hell does THAT game use 5GB?
Bomber Bob
Banned
malloc(5giga)
How fast is the flash memory in an iPhone?
That is the exact question that would pop in everyone's mind
Crysis 3 should need 64GB then
More likely use some compression method with minor loss
disappeared
Banned
It's a persistent world in which the puzzles all tie in to an overlying theme. That theme, of course, is something we haven't seen yet.
The game could be 25GB and still be a truly unique experience, as far as I'm concerned.
This is a game coming from the man who made Braid.
We're in for a treat.
I dont think anyone suggested the game wont be special because it takes up a lot of ram
The argument was that taking 5GB ram for those graphics seems like a joke and he should never have mentioned it
I think he is coming from a 2D game and the 3D is a whole new world he is exploring, he will learn eventually
If he hadn't mentioned it, no one would have known and no one would have cared. Which, I should think, is an underlying component of his point: If the end-user is not impacted by how he chooses to do things, and how he chooses to do things makes his life easier and job less time-consuming and expensive, why should he not choose to do things that way? Because it's unseemly to a bunch of programming folks who, again, wouldn't have known what the game was doing had he not mentioned it?
dragonelite
Member
I have no idea to be honest. But i reckon its not something he would be happy about.
And i have no idea what the limitation of apps are on ios.
But i dont think apple would allow a 5gb + game on store.
Robot Pants
Member
I'm definitely excited and have been for a while, but from what we've seen I'm pretty shocked. You might be right, just haven't seen the whole picture yet.
BlazingDarkness
Member
Well it's a fully openly explorable world so I guess there's a lot going on there.
I don't reallt see why some of you saying "lazy" etc.
If a developer can focus on game content, balancing and all other things that makes the game great without suffering from lack of optimization (since I Think you are mixing these up since they are saying they don't need to optimize as much as Before since you can deliver a great experience without putting motnhs of man hours into optimization) that is great.
If a developer can focus on game content, balancing and all other things that makes the game great without suffering from lack of optimization (since I Think you are mixing these up since they are saying they don't need to optimize as much as Before since you can deliver a great experience without putting motnhs of man hours into optimization) that is great.
Well, I mean, obviously he'd have to compress a lot of stuff. iOS devices are fast catching up but they're not there yet.
I get his point of course, but his comments seem very funny considering how the game looks, that is all
This and all the recent comments he really hates Microsoft. We are going to get one of those scenes like when Code Pink starts shouting at a political event but it will be J. Blow at the Microsoft event. There really has to be more then he just does not like the console at this point.
Opus Angelorum
Member
@fanboi
I'm was just thinking of the potential if a developer did both. A well optimised game is going to allow for more possibilities.
I'm was just thinking of the potential if a developer did both. A well optimised game is going to allow for more possibilities.
Thanks for typing what I wanted to say. I always wonder if people what people who "armchair dev" think when they make stupid arguments. Arrrgh.
NorthernAvengeR
Banned
Xbone port confirmed
Correct and I agree! But as a indie developer they don't, usually, have the luxary to do both.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
v1oz said:
Scene coding has never been about reducing size of running code, the emphasis has always been on working within set parameters for executable size. Which is to say that in order to hit a competition limit, say a 64k intro, or a 100k game, everything is created algorithmically in a precalculation pass on running rather than being simply stored within the executable file.
Added to this, in many instances optimization of performance is achieved by precalulating as many operations as possible so as to provide the cheapest possible code-path at runtime.
A classic old-school example of this is rather than using sine and cosine functions (slow computationally but almost "free" memory-wise) large static tables of pre-baked sin and cos values are algorithmically created in memory during the precalc phases, and are simply used to look-up the results when the effect routine employs them. This offers maximum performance speed at the cost of a hefty memory overhead.
Earthpainting
Member
No sense in not using the resources you've got at your disposal. If the performance doesn't suffer, I don't think we have too much to complain about.
I just hope that we're not heading to too bloated download-sizes, since the current PSN speeds I get most of the time would make this... less than ideal. Of course it is possible that the PS4 will come with an infrastructure upgrade, which renders this moot.
I just hope that we're not heading to too bloated download-sizes, since the current PSN speeds I get most of the time would make this... less than ideal. Of course it is possible that the PS4 will come with an infrastructure upgrade, which renders this moot.
This is true, though I would hope developers would aim for the stars and then optimize their way into making what they wanted possible... and not make something, optimize it well, determine that they have plenty left to use, and then start tossing shit in just to do so.
Opus Angelorum
Member
True, but a poorly optimised game (irrelevant of the hardware) would make for a worse experience. They need to find a balance.
Black Republican
Member
yeaa sure
dragonelite
Member
I could see blow cut textures size in quarter res of ps3 that should decrease memory and space used for textures with times 16. Ios devices are still like 1/3 of current gen on paper specs if im not mistaken the A6x chip has a 80Gflops gpu.
That is why im interpreting this tweet as a way to stab at the xbone and a bit childish to be honest. He could have just said "We use all the available memory we can get on the devices The witness is releasing on". Sounds more professional and less childish. Because its not a random number you pull from your ass 5gb when you have 7gb to your disposal. Unless he is porting to Xbone or Sony also has bloated 3Gb OS.
/conspiracy. Inbe4 microsoft shill.
He can do as he pleases, as long as he does not try to suggest that no next gen game can possibly run in 8GB ram which somehow is so "low"
He speciaifically says that his indie game takes 5GB, which implies a bigger game would never run in this order of magnitude ram
Which is a laughable statement of course
The fact that he cant optimize his game does not mean next gen is already doomed for using "only" 8GB of fast unified DD5 ram (PS4)
Yup. Not optimized at all. Just... hemorrhaging with raw, pure ideas and input.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
My thoughts as an old assembler coder dude: He is absolutely right.
If using lots of RAM that's not needed somewhere else speeds up your development process and gets you a better performance, it's the right way to go.
If using lots of RAM that's not needed somewhere else speeds up your development process and gets you a better performance, it's the right way to go.
Is the 3GB OS for xbox one confirmed ?
I wonder how they would ever manage to take up 3GB with a console OS
Code:
char *p;
p = (char*)malloc(5368709120);dragonelite
Member
Yeah it was confirmed in the tech round table given after the reveal.
#dead.
It's the other way around. In the case of The witness, shrinking the memory use is a solution to a problem that does not exist on PS4 hardware.
It is silly to put effort into loading less than 5GB when you could easily load a lot more. The shrinking itself would be 'unoptimised' part of the proces because you're putting effort into something that has no benefit at all.
It's like trying to compress a game from 500MB to 300MB when you're going to ship it on a 650MB CDROM anyway.
If your 500MB game is as efficient as your 300MB game, shrinking is not 'optimalisation', just a waste of time.
He didn't say that. He just said that 8GB wasn't that much.
Moral Panic
Member
The amount of stupid posts in this thread make my head hurt. You don't even need to be an expert in programming or computers to see how ridiculously inane these arguments are.
If I have a 5GB ram pool to use, and I use slower but memory saving techniques so I only use 1GB of that pool, then THAT is "unoptimized".
If I have a 5GB ram pool to use, and I use slower but memory saving techniques so I only use 1GB of that pool, then THAT is "unoptimized".
Don't know. Guess we'll see.
The first iphone had 256MB of ram. What are you talking about?
I'm a little confused here. Would being "very poorly optimized" actually be a problem for the PC if this is all a RAM issue? If the 5GBs of RAM is there and there's a GPU/CPU on par or better than what the XB1 has, would it run alright?
Genuine question. I don't know shit about memory management/porting/software development in general.
It's not even unseemly to programmers, believe me, with the possible exception of a few head cases who care more about addressing a technical challenge which doesn't exist than making a game (something which is not unheard of in game development). People who think they can evaluate this game's tech without understanding how it is put together, without even having played it, and think they can draw some kind of meaningful comparison to Crysis 3, are armchair analysts who probably don't even care if everything they're saying is wrong -- they just, like so many of us, enjoy wasting time on forums. The funny thing about Gaf though is that there are decent number of people here who make games, know what they're talking about, and have already pointed out the absurdity of these comments.
In this case, not really. I don't see how utilizing a lot of RAM would limit the game in any way.
If we compare the graphics of Witness to next gen graphics, then he practially said that we need about 32GB ram at the very least to have any chance to run those
Sephiroth_VII
Member
I truly doubt they'll ever catch up. If an iPad was to have as much power as a dedicated gaming device, the battery life would be terrbile. Just look at modern handhelds.
If we compare the graphics of Witness to next gen graphics, then he practially said that we need about 32GB ram at the very least to have any chance to run those
"Graphics" aren't the only things using ram.
dragonelite
Member
Cause you get access to 100% of the ram?
I heard you get access to 10% of the available ios device.
Not a mobile developer so if one could clarify it.
then number of people that don't understand why he's using so much memory is disappointing. if he makes his game use as little ram as possible, the rest of the ram just sit's there unused. its a waste of time to sit there optimising your game engine, adding in streaming tech when you just don't need to, adding these things in when he still has 2gb of ram still available is nothing but a waste of time and money!
Wasn't the general idea that it doesn't actually use 3GB all the time, but it needs guaranteed space to run apps to stop them from taking resources from games, so they partitioned off a lot to begin with?
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