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[Grizzlyjin]

Yeah, I'd say this is the price for making launch. But I'd stay positive. They could always adopt the Burnout Paradise model and continuously keep updating from 2013 until 2015 and then have Forza 6 launch. A nice mixture of free updates and paid DLC would be alright.

 

[reggie]

.

 

[Jezbollah]

Thank you Turn 10, for slacking in the only game that I really could buy an Xbone for.

This makes some of my purchase decisions even easier.

I mean - no Auction House? What the flying fuck!

 

[Shaneus]

Hey guys, I found footage of some night racing

Spoiler

done right, on the 360

. Apparently it is possible without having to resort to original Xbox models.

cinematic,

(But only in daylight. How's that for "cinematic"?)

automotive

(Well, can't argue with that)

journey,

(Around the same locations over and over again)

starring the world's greatest cars

(Depending on how much you like Porsche)

and tracks.

(So long as those tracks don't include Spa or Mt. Panorama)

 

[ShamePain]

Maybe some wet-look tracks with nice volumetric spray and reflective puddles could have been a nice filler until FM6 does full weather effects?

But then people would bitch about how bad it looks. Better not have a feature at all rather than having a half-done one. Proven by GT5.

I also wonder just how much time and effort has been put into every car being Autovista?

This one is very interesting, considering PD takes 6 month to produce one car, that doesn't even have it's engine or boot modelled, just how much resources are required to make hundreds of cars of better quality?! But then again it's good for us as car lovers, maybe this time there will be no horrible car models like the infamous F40. At least in terms of car modelling FM5 might be able to absolutely destroy GT5/6.

 

[soundscream]

Wheels ARE supported. Xbone versions by Mad Catz and Thrustmaster, at this stage. The big question is whether our existing Fanatec hardware will be supported.

I really don't know what I would do if they can't find a way to include fanatec. It's not just the wheel it's the clubsport pedals, the shifter (club sport shifter soon to be availible) the racing seat. I invested a ton of money because I figured a wheel with usb support that played on 360/PS3/PC would at least get me through another generation. I never would have made that investment when I just had the MS wheel because since it was only wireless I knew it probably would only work on 360.

 

[eso76]

problem with Forza is, its iterations are decided by business.
Microsoft pressures T10 to have a Forza out for launch and a new game on a 2 year cycle.

And you don't patch night racing in, if your engine doesn't support DGI.
Worse, you'll probably have to heavily rework all the tracks for night racing to be in FM6 even, and with the tight deadlines T10 has to work with, i'm not sure they'll ever make it.
They could have night racing available for a few selected tracks though, maybe.

I still love the franchise, though. And if i ever get a X1, it's exclusively thanks to T10.

Or "it's only T10's fault" depending on how you view it

 

[saladine1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48XVk4hmMAM

SHIFT 2 also had night racing.

 

[Waldo Lydecker]

No weather?
But doesn't rain come from the clouds?

Post of the day, good sir!

 

[Shaneus]

problem with Forza is, its iterations are decided by business.
Microsoft pressures T10 to have a Forza out for launch and a new game on a 2 year cycle.

And you don't patch night racing in, if your engine doesn't support DGI.
Worse, you'll probably have to heavily rework all the tracks for night racing to be in FM6 even, and with the tight deadlines T10 has to work with, i'm not sure they'll ever make it.
They could have night racing available for a few selected tracks though, maybe.

I still love the franchise, though. And if i ever get a X1, it's exclusively thanks to T10.

Or "it's only T10's fault" depending on how you view it

Yeah. I'm in two minds about all of this (obviously, just look at my erratic posting in this thread!), bouncing between anger/frustration and some kind of half-arsed sympathy because we all know Dan can't say "Look, we just didn't have enough time, okay?".

But then you have marketing speak like "A game that's 10 years in the making" but there are still notable, obvious qualities that are missing.

Maybe they will have addressed everything else (it looks like there are difficulty options, at least!) except for night racing and everything else will be as perfect as the weather in the game... and if that's the case, then my hat will go off to them. But I just know that there'll be some things in there that just don't seem well thought out or implemented.

Come on Turn 10, show us what you've got. Because this public perception from the hardcore racers shouldn't be allowed to simmer for too long.

 

[Grassy]

Well this is a fucking disappointment as a massive Forza fan. At this stage I'll just hold off until Forza 6 when they can hopefully provide a more substantial experience, rather than a feature-cut launch title. At least then they may have fixed the draconian DRM bullshit on Xbone(haha who the fuck am I kidding?) and it will be cheaper as well.

I bet there will be tracks cut from Forza 4 too. I can understand there will be a lot less cars now they're all Autovista-quality but overall it's underwhelming. The photomode graphics look pretty damn good though

I guess this shows partly why GT6 is not a PS4 launch title...

 

[Yasir]

Forza 5 vs GT6 thread will be fun times

 

[Mascot]

Yeah. I'm in two minds about all of this (obviously, just look at my erratic posting in this thread!), bouncing between anger/frustration and some kind of half-arsed sympathy because we all know Dan can't say "Look, we just didn't have enough time, okay?".

But then you have marketing speak like "A game that's 10 years in the making" but there are still notable, obvious qualities that are missing.

Maybe they will have addressed everything else (it looks like there are difficulty options, at least!) except for night racing and everything else will be as perfect as the weather in the game... and if that's the case, then my hat will go off to them. But I just know that there'll be some things in there that just don't seem well thought out or implemented.

Come on Turn 10, show us what you've got. Because this public perception from the hardcore racers shouldn't be allowed to simmer for too long.

I do feel for Turn 10. They are getting a lot of flack right now about night and weather, but FM5 still looks utterly incredible, it really does. Getting that level of graphical fidelity in a launch title on brand-new hardware is a feat in itself, but with a whole new physics engine AND a whole new graphics/lighting engine too? Amazing. And Drivatar 2.0 sounds like it could be the best thing to happen to racing games in a long long time. It's such a shame the Xbone is already seen as a failure by so many gamers, but Microsoft have themselves and nobody else to blame for all that. It's unfortunate that Turn 10 seem to be getting tarred with the same brush as MS as that is patently unfair.

Everybody should watch Blim's 60fps Gamersyde video again and things don't seem quite so bad afterwards..!

 

[dokish]

Hopefully they patch that in later. This will be my first Forza game

For just $10 you can have the night cycle DLC.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

I guess this shows partly why GT6 is not a PS4 launch title...

I don't think GT has ever been a launch title?

However, while GT is absent, there's DriveClub. Day/night cycles and full weather are already in. No word on damage to cars but Evolution are the guys who made MotorStorm, so God knows they know how damage works. The question is if DriveClub will make it out for launch, and if it will be 30fps or 60fps.

 

[Darklord]

What the fuck? No night or weather? Fuck off! I'm not buying it. These is NO excuse anymore.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

Wtf Turn 10? No weather and night mode? And your game is suppose to be on next-gen, what a disgrace.

 

[K.Sabot]

Pretty standard next gen procedures.

Take away all the features and put them back in later installments to much fanfare.

We'll probably see this with Madden too, considering how Madden 06 went.

 

[Kelas]

That's a shame. Night racing/ wet weather racing (sometimes both) were some of the best times in GT5 multiplayer tournaments. It's great to have some variety to shake things up in a 5+ race tournament.

 

[Teletraan1]

Reminds me of the first annual sports franchise that EA puts out on each next gen console that is a huge step back with missing features but has shiny grafix. There isn't an excuse for this on a yearly sports franchise and there is even less of an excuse on a flagship title. The smarter move imo would have been what Sony is probably doing with Drive Club and what the 360 did with PGR. Release these types of game first at launch and then hit us with a full fledged GT/Forza when they are finished.

 

[maeh2k]

Pretty standard next gen procedures.

Take away all the features and put them back in later installments to much fanfare.

They didn't really take away any features. Forza Motorsport has never had weather and there weren't any night races in any of the three 360 titles. Storefront/auction house will not simply be removed but they'll be replaced by a different system that might even be better and that'll certainly be more accessible to the many players who never bothered with auction house and storefront (e.g. by AI drivers using liveries).

 

[Psychotext]

The question is if DriveClub will make it out for launch, and if it will be 30fps or 60fps.

30 isn't it? Also looked downgraded vs the original footage... I'm not entirely sure that development is going as well as might be intended.

 

[schuey7]

WHAT?!? Nevermind that there's no night/weather (hargh), if a defining feature has been taken out (storefront, auction), why bother calling it Forza 5 then?!? Call it Forza: Prague Edition....or something!

Anyway, can't stop drooling from looking at these pics:

So open wheel cars are in .This is atleast one demand fulfilled.

Liveries and tunes will still be available so thats good and I think I prefer the new way.

 

[Omni]

Haven't played a Forza since number 2. This game still looks excellent and I'm still gonna get it day one. Lack of night is disappointing, but not a deal breaker.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

30 isn't it? Also looked downgraded vs the original footage... I'm not entirely sure that development is going as well as might be intended.

They're probably racing to get it done by launch too. I think someone from Evolution was saying they were "shooting for 60fps" and E3 demo is 30fps. I just hope they learned from MotorStorm how important 60fps is for racing titles. And people keep complaining about the lack of AA, they might want to get that in there too.

 

[Vicetrailia]

This is why with Forza you can never believe the marketing/hype. It's pure business, MS wanted this at launch/2yr cycle and Dan has to comply. Two other teams do more than Forza, but I know it isn't Dan's fault. If he could I hope he would. Very disappointed that this game will be so bare compared to other racers.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

If there's no weather... why do the cars in the first "in-game" trailer have kicked-up water on them?

 

[LeBoef]

This is why with Forza you can never believe the marketing/hype. It's pure business, MS wanted this at launch/2yr cycle and Dan has to comply. Two other teams do more than Forza, but I know it isn't Dan's fault. If he could I hope he would. Very disappointed that this game will be so bare compared to other racers.

holy shit... they do more because they have different features ingame?
i missed a lot of features, which are standard in fm3/4, while playing gt5.

but i wouldnt dare to say, PD is unable to do it. they either dont care about such features or focus on different things.
what they have in common: we dont do it, if its not right.

i hope it stays that way

 

[eso76]

But then you have marketing speak like "A game that's 10 years in the making" but there are still notable, obvious qualities that are missing.

I think there was a problem with their roadmap, actually.
When Forza 2 launched, i think T10 had different priorities and probably had no idea their game would be succesfull enough to warrant a 2 year cycle.
At this point the game has a lot of content that needs to be updated constantly, which prevents them to implement new 'game changing' features like weather and night racing and be ready with a new, full game, in 2 years.
FM6 should skip 2015 (i'll take PGR5 instead, thanks !) and rewrite some of its rules with a more open mind towards the series' growth.

Actually, FM5 really should have skipped launch - You can't really expect a series to make the transition to next gen on schedule AND add lots of new features.
I would have been happy with a budget priced FM Prologue, with 20 cars and 2 tracks and with a proper FM5 in 2014.
I understand how important FM5 is for X1 launch, but MS has to give the series the time to grow or they could be killing the franchise; i can see the series' popularity fall if FM6 doesn't make some huge strides in those regards...

 

[SatansReverence]

Absolutely broken logic and broken by the very same Turn10.

This is the full contextualized quote from Dan Greenawalt prior to very Forza 4 release on X360 regarding possibility to have day/night and rain in FM4 on X360 hardware in 2011:

Very own Forzamotorsport.net interview:



Eurogamer interview:


Those were last-gen excuses. On the 512MB RAM hardware. And today we have 8GB RAM hardware. Talk about 12X raw performance increase.

It just boils down to priorities and what you actually want to deliver from your game. What do you actually want your game to be. To achieve.

I am aware how vast majority of FM players do not take wether or time of day as important. Same as for wheel support and problems with linearity, buffers and such that Forza series has been plagued with on X360. But there are people that care. And that would really love to get as much as *simulation* possible for the game that calls itself simulation and love to praise itself as "becoming best in the world".

I don't know. I will not even take GT for an example, I will go to small independent developer Slightly Mad Studios and ask myself how can them: with less then 50 people working on the project coded for multiplatofrm release achieve stunning daytime changes, night racing, 24 cars on track and stunning rain effects, open wheel classes with animated suspenisons and such on the budget not greater then 2 million euros annualy.

I am fully dissapointed. Things just have to be contexualized. Forza have to be contextualized. If you thrive to be perceived as simulation and you have 10 years of consecutive AAA budget on your disposal and you have all resources imaginable and 400 people working on your game and you have access to everything thaks to Microsoft and you love to think about yourself as best in the bussiness and promote yourself like that as well, you have to bite the challenge.

Saying that you have "best simulation of tyres and physics" and then highlighting that same physics engine as reason for not actually having rain races is not logical. It is just not logical.

Same goes for variable daytime. First you say you have "best graphics, 1080p native@60fps.." and then you say that graphics is the reason why there is no nightime racing. It does not compute. It really does not. Same reasons as in 2011. It is just not right. Really it is not.

But hey, it is only my subjective opinion.

Great post Amar. Summed it up nicely.

 

[TJP]

I'm more disappointed with the lack of night and weather than the Xbox One's stupid DRM. I also feel for the Forza fans (I've been playing FM since the original Xbox) who were keen on seeing these features added to Forza.

 

[Vicetrailia]

wholy shit... they do more because they have different features ingame?
i missed a lot of features, which are standard in fm3/4, while playing gt5.

but i wouldnt dare to say, PD is unable to do it. they either dont care about such features or focus on different things.
what they have in common: we dont do it, if its not right.

i hope it stays that way

Not buying "We don't do it if its not right" when it comes to night/weather. Something else sure, but not this. They'll always blanket say it's not the right fit until they finally do it. They know what we want.

 

[shaneskim]

Forza 5 Prologue?

 

[skyfinch]

I do feel for Turn 10. They are getting a lot of flack right now about night and weather, but FM5 still looks utterly incredible, it really does. Getting that level of graphical fidelity in a launch title on brand-new hardware is a feat in itself, but with a whole new physics engine AND a whole new graphics/lighting engine too? Amazing. And Drivatar 2.0 sounds like it could be the best thing to happen to racing games in a long long time. It's such a shame the Xbone is already seen as a failure by so many gamers, but Microsoft have themselves and nobody else to blame for all that. It's unfortunate that Turn 10 seem to be getting tarred with the same brush as MS as that is patently unfair.

Everybody should watch Blim's 60fps Gamersyde video again and things don't seem quite so bad afterwards..!

Had to watch this on my desktop, but holy shit! After all the crap about the trailer being CGI, or not in-engine/in-game, I honestly don't care. The game looks incredible, the best racing game graphics on a console I've ever seen.

 

[ShamePain]

Very disappointed that this game will be so bare compared to other racers.

Really? I mean REALLY? Depends on what you're looking for I guess. In my case it's car pornography, and in this regard FM5 is going to destroy both DC and GT6, autovista quality for all cars is amazing by itself. Others don't even come close to the quality/quantity ratio of FM. GT6 will have 1200 cars, but most of them are slightly updated ps2 models, DC has around 50 models from what I've heard, which is waaay below of what FM5 is going to offer. For me personally it's a day one must buy title, a lot less so with GT6/DC.

 

[Grassy]

I don't think GT has ever been a launch title?

However, while GT is absent, there's DriveClub. Day/night cycles and full weather are already in. No word on damage to cars but Evolution are the guys who made MotorStorm, so God knows they know how damage works. The question is if DriveClub will make it out for launch, and if it will be 30fps or 60fps.

Yeah that comment was more to do with all the people complaining about why GT6 is on PS3 instead of being a PS4 launch title or close to it, because it would undoubtedly be the same situation we have with Forza 5 of features being cut if GT6 was a PS4 launch title.

There is visual damage in Drive Club, not sure to what extent though and whether there is any mechanical damage.

 

[Shaneus]

I think there was a problem with their roadmap, actually.
When Forza 2 launched, i think T10 had different priorities and probably had no idea their game would be succesfull enough to warrant a 2 year cycle.
At this point the game has a lot of content that needs to be updated constantly, which prevents them to implement new 'game changing' features like weather and night racing and be ready with a new, full game, in 2 years.
FM6 should skip 2015 (i'll take PGR5 instead, thanks !) and rewrite some of its rules with a more open mind towards the series' growth.

Actually, FM5 really should have skipped launch - You can't really expect a series to make the transition to next gen on schedule AND add lots of new features.
I would have been happy with a budget priced FM Prologue, with 20 cars and 2 tracks and with a proper FM5 in 2014.
I understand how important FM5 is for X1 launch, but MS has to give the series the time to grow or they could be killing the franchise; i can see the series' popularity fall if FM6 doesn't make some huge strides in those regards...

It's the "roadmap" (probably the word I've been looking for), or seemingly lack thereof that I think is hurting them with such a rapid turnover of games. You can kinda see where something like PGR goes... grab a bunch of cars, bunch of tracks, give them some different modes and loosely tie them together into a quasi-career mode/calendar. They've pretty much stuck with that formula since MSR and it gives you a solid idea of what they needed to do. The goalposts keep changing with each Forza, which must make it hard for them to focus.

If I could pick one obvious thing, it's the whole "car lovers into gamers, gamers into car lovers" mantra. Problem being that they're trying to focus on both gamers AND car lovers, and to some of us, just hitting an awkward middle ground (note: "some", not all). I think they need to either go a GT route of saying "Fuck it, laser-focus on racing and race modes, screw the 'personality' and get the nitty-gritty right", or go the PGR route of saying "We don't need to be super-realistic with ridiculous details, as long as we can fang cool cars around cool locations in the most direct way possible". Can't have both.

 

[Mascot]

No doubt we'll hear more about the reasons behind the lack of night/weather from Dan in the coming weeks (and maybe even later today in the Gamespot special) but I'd really like to know if one or both of them had been in development, but dropped when it became clear they wouldn't be ready for launch, or whether a strategic decision was made from day one to concentrate on other aspects of the game (hopefully gazillions of tracks, and not Top Gear guff for the casuals).

I can't believe the decision was down to technical constraints or artistic inadequacy - Turn 10 have demonstrated their incredible talent in these areas for years.

It has to be about the launch deadline, surely?

 

[G Rom]

Really disappointed by lack of time of day and weather. I guess they have to keep features for FM6...
I like the new system for paints and tunes, I think it has been put in place to prevent painters and tuners from reaching millions of credits in no time and biasing the economy.

Fortunately, there are other new and highly requested stuff making it in, smaller stuff but still.

BTW Saladine, old F1 + higher quality sound due to next-gen + Nick Wiswell, I'm just drooling thinking about it...

 

[Always-honest]

No weather? What about Clouds?

 

[Risk Breaker]

Disappointmenton? Wouldn't buy it anyway, Xbone is a no go for me.

 

[Meccanical]

No night?

No weather?

The whole POINT of racing games is to set up a race in a city at night while it rains so while listening to chill music to take your mind off life's problems!

HOW CAN YOU HAVE A CLOUD POWERED GAME WITH NO RAIN!?

 

[Terbinator]

No weather? What about Clouds?

You're a day late and a dollar short with that one.

 

[saladine1]

Really disappointed by lack of time of day and weather. I guess they have to keep features for FM6...
I like the new system for paints and tunes, I think it has been put in place to prevent painters and tuners from reaching millions of credits in no time and biasing the economy.

Fortunately, there are other new and highly requested stuff making it in, smaller stuff but still.

BTW Saladine, old F1 + higher quality sound due to next-gen + Nick Wiswell, I'm just drooling thinking about it...

lol, I was just thinking about that!

The classic racers always sound phenomenal. I'm dying to hear those cars.
In fact, I'm dying to hear something from any of these videos posted. So far, it's all been noise and music. Hopefully, we'll get to hear some direct feed Wiswell goodness soon...

 

[-bakalhau-]

I very much liked the storefront and auction house. It gave the game a sense of being huge because of so much you could discover and how much you could interact with the community. I could lose hours in there, and honestly, I liked to pay for stuff. And get paid upfront when someone bought my stuff. I don't know, I guess it's just me. I liked how you could snatch great deals in the AH, and it was freaking awesome competing with other people to try and get one car at an awesome price. There was a sense of interaction between users, and a reason to have money in the game other than to buy new cars and upgrades.

It felt like a fantastic game with this awesome, huge part of community interaction and ways to spend your money on the side - kinda giving me some MMO vibes. That's one of the things I loved about Forza mora than GT.

The AH is gone and that sucks, I know you can still browse for pics, videos, liveries, decals, setups, but all of them being free if I wanna get them is not the same. And me not setting up the prices for my items. It takes away an integral part of what made Forza so great.

 

[madmackem]

No weather ffs no night gtfo.

 

[Avtomat]

Really? I mean REALLY? Depends on what you're looking for I guess. In my case it's car pornography, and in this regard FM5 is going to destroy both DC and GT6, autovista quality for all cars is amazing by itself. Others don't even come close to the quality/quantity ratio of FM. GT6 will have 1200 cars, but most of them are slightly updated ps2 models, DC has around 50 models from what I've heard, which is waaay below of what FM5 is going to offer. For me personally it's a day one must buy title, a lot less so with GT6/DC.

Driving game reduced to picture porn I see. Come on this is disappointing for sure let's leave GT6 and DC out of it. DC is not even the same specific genre pure arcade racer.

 

[G Rom]

lol, I was just thinking about that!

The classic racers always sound phenomenal. I'm dying to hear those cars.
In fact, I'm dying to hear something from any of these videos posted. So far, it's all been noise and music. Hopefully, we'll get to hear some direct feed Wiswell goodness soon...

Yeah, we need some direct feed footage with no comments and no music.
Speaking of music, it's not been confirmed but we can definitely recognise Lance Hayes' work in those homespace videos. It seems that it's gonna be just as easy as in FM3 and FM4 to get lost just looking at cars in homespaces with music playing.

 

[ShamePain]

Yeah, we need some direct feed footage with no comments and no music.
Speaking of music, it's not been confirmed but we can definitely recognise Lance Hayes' work in those homespace videos. It seems that it's gonna be just as easy as in FM3 and FM4 to get lost just looking at cars in homespaces with music playing.

Exactly what I've spent most of my time doing in FM3/4.

 

[cbox]

At this point I think weather and night racing are subjects dan and the team just don't want. I don't think it's a case of them not being able to do it, but a design decision... Same way they just don't seem to want to get rid of the terrible floating camera replay angles, etc.

I really wanted to be excited for 5, but sadly this will most likely be the first forza game I won't buy at launch

Though time will tell, all can change once we know more.