plagiarize
Banned
You should be allowed. But it's always better when the people you're complaining about actually exist. I mean, complaining about people who don't exist is a pretty pointless exercise.
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Did something happen with PAX or Penny Arcade today?
- Thread starter jbug617
- Start date
Well, nature is freaky. Sometimes womens are born with a Penis. They have the gene, boobs and even ovaries. But have a penis.
Sometimes a guy is born with a vagina too. They are exceptions, so of course the numbers of Women of Vagina is less than 100%, but its also over 95%.
Its like asking for the average number of fingers on a hand. Its around 4.9. Not 5.
So yeah, if you found a dead body somewhere and somebody asked you "Its a guy or a women?" and you said "A guy" based on his penis, then you did nothing wrong. But if somebody correct you by saying "Nope, I'm a girl" then just take his word for it. Its not like it matter much.
blizzardjesus
Banned
Please let me know when they make a game that teaches men how to masturbate their vaginas. I'll be sure to buy it.
The original game is for a specific topic, for a specific group of people. This thread has mutated into bloodstorm on what it's ok and not ok to call trans people, and how everything is offensive.
I don't see there ever being an agreement that everyone can be happy with.
plagiarize
Banned
so we shouldn't try to find a compromise? again, I think it's a pretty small ask to expect people who apparently aren't trying to offend anyone not to assert things, or use language that has been explained to them to be offensive.
that's a pretty fucking small thing to ask.
I've already explained these people exist, which is why I brought them up. I also explained in an earlier post responding to you that I wasn't directly referring to GAF. You then asked me to show you who on GAF or Twitter I was talking about.
Since you've already stated that you've reviewed every comment on twitter about this incident, going over every single solitary post who I am to call you a liar? That would be rude.
For decent human beings it is.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This isn't a problem. Life is about striving to be the best person you can be, and part of that is learning to respect others. As long as people have empathy and sensitivity for others, we'll be okay.
blizzardjesus
Banned
It is... But I don't think Gaff has the capacity to do that. We're a community filled with adults, the press/industry and young teens. I would consider any compromise an miracle.
Opinions have to be nonfactual. You can't have an opinion on a fact. Do you ask people what their opinion of addition is? Should I be asking you what your position of addition is? Your whole line of questioning in this thread is unscientific so I'm just trying to gauge just how unscientific you want to make yourself. What you have here is not an opinion, but an instance of you being wrong and trying to masquerade you being objectively wrong as you expressing an opinion on something that has no room for opinion.
I'm going to suggest you do some more research on the subject. I'm not going to respond to you any more; partially because the NeoGAF moderators have been fairly consistent about striking down people who make transphobic comments and I think it's only a matter of time. But it's also because I wouldn't argue with someone about their opinion of addition and neither will I argue with someone about their opinion of this.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
You said vaginas are something girls have and boys don't, which is the exact type of ignorant and inaccurate statement that spawned this thread in the first place. Thanks for bringing us full circle.
I've made no transphobic statements in this thread nor in my posting career here on GAF. Or are you trying to threaten me that you have some in with them and that if I disagree with you I'll be punished.
I thought this forum had standards.
plagiarize
Banned
All you have to do to prove me wrong is provide a single tweet, namely one that you have apparently already read. It would be much easier for you to do this, than it would be for me to read the entirety of twitter.
I take that you haven't done it yet, as strong evidence that no such tweet exists. I am confident enough that no one on twitter thinks Gabe is worse than Hitler for his tweets, so much so as to presume it to be true.
Naturally, if and when you provide the evidence to back up your claims I will change my position.
I don't think there is one correct term that's the problem. If you use any term or other on somewhere like twitter or tumblr, you can be pretty sure someone will kick off about it.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Male and female as categories of sex are not scientific fact. They are 100% arbitrary and made up.
I think I need to like draw a picture or something.
I think I need to like draw a picture or something.
Indeed.
If you want to learn more about gender and trans issues than I highly recommend Whipping Girl (Julia Serano) and Genderqueer: Voices from beyond the sexual binary (various).
And as always, anything by bell hooks.
I meant in a physical sense. A body with a penis is male, a body with a vagina is female. Sadly, some people are born with a female brain in a male body. My main problem with some people with sexual, gender, or any issue that is psychological and not physical, is that they are not plainly shown.
You see a white guy, you know he's white. You see a black guy, you see he's black. But, with Psychological stuff, you cant say "Well this is girl, in a guy body, and the girl is also gay.". You have to go with the majority. She look like a guy, then you call her "Guy", because he's a guy 97-98% of the time. But if he's not, should she get angry or simply explain that she's not?
If people get scared to ask questions, then they will become transphobic. People hate what they are scared of. And they are scared of what they do not understand.
But to prove you wrong would be to show you to be a liar and since you've clearly stated you've investigated this matter entirely why wouldn't I take your word on it?
plagiarize
Banned
some people are born with XY chromosomes, with gonads inside their bodies, but with the external appearance of being female.
what are they?
No, I just think that someone who can't tell the difference between gender and sex but chooses to talk on the subject anyway is bound to stumble into a transphobic statement eventually.
Necromanti
Member
Most people have difficulty differentiating gender from sex, or even sexual orientation from the mix. The problem is that they are all linked, however subtly. And we can have someone who for all intents and purposes has the sex chromosomes of a male, but has a female phenotypic expression of sex. We try to pigeonhole things that fall along intertwining spectra.
The biggest arguments arise when people cease being respectful, though, and merely devolve into "I think you are X, and therefore, you are X even though you feel you are Y" which can seem insulting/denigrating/hostile to others.
plagiarize
Banned
I just explained to you that I am presuming that no one on Twitter said that Gabe is worse than Hitler, based on my high degree of certainty, based in part on the fact that you have still haven't provided the tweet that you say exists.
I have not claimed to have investigated this matter. There isn't enough time for me to read all of twitter, because tweets happen at a rate faster than I can read them. The task you are trying to set me is impossible. The task I have set you, 'find that tweet you claim you saw and post it' is quite possible.
So we go back to me presuming that no such tweet exists.
You haven't 'explained' that these people exist. You have asserted that they exist, without providing any evidence. Like with all such assertions, if the request for evidence goes unanswered, I presume them to be false. Nothing personal.
flyinpiranha
Member
Twitter is like anti-linkedin for narcissists.
5 minutes later.
I'm flattered you broke your vow of silence. I think our friendship will blossom from here on out.
If we go on a physical sense, they are Males with Women sexual attributes. But usually somebody with XY wont have a female appearance. They will look like a guy, but have a vagina.
I never heard of somebody with XY looking like a female, with boobs and the bone structure of a female. They can have vaginas but boobs are puberty stuff that are controlled by the XY.
Shin Johnpv
Member
Why the 3 letters cis though? Do they stand for a specific word, or an anagram? Just a weird choice of letters to mean that.
Where?
His hardline conservative upbringing can only be disguised for so long.
An easy way to get banned from PA back in the day was to debate Christianity with him. He nuked the entire PA forums over someone making fun of him.
This seems like a semantics issue that both sides have blown out of proportion.
I think that Kotaku article was pretty dumb and agree with him in some aspects that people are a little too touchy on the subject but at the same time harping on it like this could only hurt him, especially when it seems to revolve around a pretty simple mix-up of words. He should have just dropped it.
I think that Kotaku article was pretty dumb and agree with him in some aspects that people are a little too touchy on the subject but at the same time harping on it like this could only hurt him, especially when it seems to revolve around a pretty simple mix-up of words. He should have just dropped it.
stufte
Member
Their anger is overzealous.
Necromanti
Member
They are Latin prefixes meaning "on the same side as" (cis) and "across from/on the opposite side of" (trans). It's used in the sciences.
plagiarize
Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XY_gonadal_dysgenesis
It's a bit dry, but the details are there. There is debate on whether treatment should try to get them to develop as boys or girls.
plagiarize
Banned
please read the Wikipedia article I linked above, and tell me if we should go off the child's genetics (XY) or their completely female bodies and genitals?
So some people with that can become pretty much asexual since they never reach puberty? Never heard of that, thanks for the info!
ElectricBlue187
Member
Outrage after outrage makes following these people on twitter pretty unbearable much of the time.
MickeyPhree
Member
This political correct bullshit has gotten way out of hand. I weep for our future.
Did you look at what I was responding to? See the quotation.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
One where everyone is tolerant, receptive, and open to challenging themselves?
plagiarize
Banned
well, generally they are treated with oestrogen, and as such they develop secondary female characteristics, and even menstruate. they don't produce any kind of gamete though, but it's not impossible for them to bear a child if an embryo is planted into their uterus.
all with the genes of a man.
untreated though, they won't be asexual, since they'll still have a vagina and a uterus and all that. they'll just maintain a prepubescent appearance. until puberty, they have the external appearance of a young girl, unremarkable in any way.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Of course the body parts are different. But they aren't female and male. Those are gendered labels that have been applied to them, which have never been accurate or comprehensive.
As a person who has a good friend who did the female -> male transition I will say that 'no effort' is not quite true. Despite my best efforts to respect his new gender, and supporting him 100% in his decision, I have a ton of history remembering him as female, and under a totally different name. That isn't easy to rewrite in your brain. Hell my mother occasionally refers to me with the dogs name. How brains link together the things we love and the way we feel is busted.
I make mistakes sometimes, I misuse pronouns sometimes. It's not an intentional thing, I'm trying as hard as I can to align my brain to his new identity... but it is hard. It takes practice, it takes effort, because if our brains have understood something a certain way for 10+ years, changing that is very difficult.
So I'm totally behind someone being whatever gender they want to be, but I hope you understand when I get things wrong. I'll support your change, if you can support my effort. Please don't doubt that it DOES take effort.
on a separate but similar note, if someone says "hey, I don't mind if you want to be whatever gender you present to me, I will treat you like said gender, if you want, but I think of things in terms of sex first" I have trouble saying they're an awful person. uneducated maybe, insensitive maybe, but awful is a touch too far. I don't think this is quite the same as race because there's a difference between casual identification and the burden of knowledge on someone. If I met my transgender friend tomarrow for the first time, and said "whose the girl?" I can't imagine I can be properly called an asshole since I didn't know that he wanted to be male.
If someone said to me "I used to be male, now I'm female, if you don't add me to your potential date list, you're an awful bigot because you don't consider me completely female" I'm not sure that's just. There's a limit to what you can tell people to do to accommodate your feelings.
I dunno, I might be wrong, but I do think sometimes this outrage goes a little far. It's new territory for everyone, I think some understanding could be offered across both lines while people try to get their heads around things. I suspect more flies are caught with honey then vinegar.
White heterosexual cis men truly are the most oppressed minority in the land.
TheOhrenberger
Banned
people need to get thicker skin...
It's nice to know that people can have civil discussions about progressive issues that not everyone is not comfortable with yet in order to allow all people to understand the importance of acceptance of others. Such rhetoric is crucial when challenging traditionally held values that are inherently discriminating.
Imagine if it was just a lynching.
Imagine if it was just a lynching.
Please be considerate as people with Junctional Herlitz Epidermolysis Bullosa might take offense to saying "get thicker skin". I'm afraid I'm going to have to tweet about this; I'm already crying a little.