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[Risette]

*puts on his doctor cap*

I really don't see how chromosomal anomalies have anything at all to do with what you're trying to say. Not only are they anomalies that any good scientific study on traditional gender genetics would throw out but they also don't particularly apply to the transgender community at large. As far as I'm aware, most transgender people do not have chromosomal anomalies. Furthermore, it doesn't really seem like you have a firm grasp of how genetics work in terms of gene expression, the effects of mutations on alleles, and how that correlates to human biological development. Maybe you actually have a background in science so forgive me for that assumption if I'm wrong, but in all honesty, it's ironic that you're accusing someone of using pseudoscience when that seems to be exactly what you're doing here.

If we're talking about the significance of sex chromosomes within the transgender population, chromosomal anomalies that lead to abnormal development aren't particularly pertinent since, please correct me if I'm wrong here, the majority of the transgender population have perfectly normal sets of sex chromosomes. Chromosomal anomalies don't suddenly mean sex chromosomes are inconsequential. Again, it's a bit ironic since the mutations you listed have severe developmental consequences and one of the biggest mantras of the transgender people that I'm at least familiar with is the idea that their biological development has been normal but does not fit their cognitive identity, thus cementing the fact that there's nothing actually wrong with them aside from the contradiction in identity and biology.

It seems like you're trying to say "there is no need to ask about chromosomes when addressing a transgender person because they do not dictate gender identity" by affirming that chromosomes somehow don't matter. Well I would certainly agree with the former, and the latter is acceptable as well as long as it's accompanied with an addendum that states they don't matter insofar as the value of the person in question as well as their gender identity are concerned. That of course is completely true. But saying they don't matter at all seems to be an attempt to affirm that they don't mean anything whatsoever, that they don't even exist. Which of course is absurd and not what you're saying directly but it seems to be the point behind your arguments. It's undeniable that chromosomes DO matter, that's the whole reason why transgender people decide to transition in the first place! The fact that the human body is pliable and can be remolded to a certain degree with the use of hormones does not somehow negate the reality that chromosomes exist even if their efficacy is diminished. And even then, there are multitudes of other issues that arise with hormone therapy, dangers and concerns that I'm sure you're well aware off, that aren't common concerns for the general population. That's just another way those pesky chromosomes are making a difference.

Just to clarify, I only bring this up as a matter of scientific clarification. I don't think it's appropriate to bring up a transgender person's chromosomes as that is obviously a bit of a sensitive subject and an area that is easy to raise offense. So if you happen to be transgender or there are other who are sensitive to the matter, understand I bring it up not to rub it in someone's face but rather simply because this is actually a field that I'm very familiar with and am approaching it merely in an academic sense, especially since you brazenly accused someone of pseudoscience.

Anywho, if you think I'm just one big honking idiot and don't want to hear from me again regarding the matter, just say so. I just wanted to get my 2 cents in.

i think you missed the point entirely

 

[guek]

i think you missed the point entirely

Well then please elaborate in detail if you have the time.

 

[GotchaForce]

That's a much better apology, even aside from the generous donation. I'm pretty satisfied with this, I doubt he'll make the same mistake again.

Seriously. I'm a fan of PA, I've bought most of the compilations and attended PAX East last year. This whole thing has bummed me out but I'm glad about the positive turn it's taken.

 

[Jintor]

Signs look good. I just hope something like this doesn't happen again.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Motherfucker stepped up.

 

[Coffee Dog]

Signs look good. I just hope something like this doesn't happen again.

Considering this was started by an extreme overreaction on the side of the tumblr social justice warriors, I highly doubt it. They instigated over nothing when it came to the dick wolf thing, they instigated this time, and theyll probably do it again the next time they can take dumb jokes and shit out of context.

Note: i definitely condemn mike's words and dont agree with him in the least, but his initial remarks involving female masturbation or whatever aren't offensive in the least and didnt deserve the outrage
. But mike is kinda dumb, and responds to outrage, logical or not. Until someone at PA tells mike to GTFO the internet, its gonna keep happening.

 

[TekGryphon]

That was a damn good apology and 20k is a substantial donation, and to a great cause to boot.

I went from "mildly irritated" at Gabe to "stand up applauding".

 

[cutmeamango]

Well then please elaborate in detail if you have the time.

The point is that he, as many others, believe that the 'XY sex determination' understanding of sexual characteristics development is feeble due the existence of anomalies because they lack the knowledge that such abnormalities are predict and understood on those terms. They see XX/XY as an antiquate binary and the existence of XXY, XO as blows of mercy to this system, as if they were entirely new sexes (they are not) not comprehended or included in that "scheme".
As I see it is the appropriation of biological knowledge of intersex by sociological bases which are then (ignorantly) proposed back against biology.

 

[guek]

The point is that he, as many others, believe that the 'XY sex determination' understanding of sexual characteristics development is feeble due the existence of anomalies because they lack the knowledge that such abnormalities are predict and understood on those terms. They see XX/XY as an antiquate binary and the existence of XXY, XO as blows of mercy to this system, as if they were entirely new sexes (they are not) not comprehended or included in that "scheme".
As I see it is the appropriation of biological knowledge of intersex by sociological bases which are then (ignorantly) proposed back against biology.

Yeah this is essentially what I interpreted as well.

 

[rocketknight]

The fact that the human body is pliable and can be remolded to a certain degree with the use of hormones does not somehow negate the reality that chromosomes exist even if their efficacy is diminished.

I mean, all chromosomes do in this regard is tell your body to try to be a testosterone-based body or an estrogen-based body. Their "efficacy" isn't "diminished" because they weren't really doing anything in regards to sex expression at that point anyway - your body took their instruction long ago and delegated the implementation to the endocrine system. The chromosomes are just kind of sitting there looking silly after that. Trans people aren't locked in a permanent battle with genetics or anything. The genetics caused a certain hormone system to form, and trans people easily handle that with hormone replacement therapy.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

He gets it now.

I hate that it seems like there's this button in most dudes that just activates asshole stubbornness when confronted with new information. The Republican party is based on it.

 

[SkyMasterson]

It's always hard to tell if someone genuinely feels what they did/said was wrong or if they're just apologizing to stop more people from hating them and damaging there brand further.

I'll take his word for it because I don't see him ever making this same mistake again, at least publicly and at the very least because of his arrogant comments it led to him donating $20k to a great cause and promoting (hopefully) positive discussion.

 

[Surreal]

He's made no effort to change, and in the latest 'apology' openly admits he doesn't plan to. He resolves to simply keep his mouth shut, which is awesome -- except he said the exact same thing 2 weeks ago.

I think you failed to read between the lines of his letter. It's clearly someone stubborn trying to apologize while also trying to hold on to a shred of dignity.

He gets it now.

I hate that it seems like there's this button in most dudes that just activates asshole stubbornness when confronted with new information. The Republican party is based on it.

I think it's more of a human thing than a "dude" thing. I'm sure if someone tried to step in and shake up your world view you'd resist a little too.

 

[Subtle]

So uh a few questions:

Is cis a real word?
How do you pronounce it?
If male and female are used for genders, what do you use for sex?

 

[Jintor]

Considering this was started by an extreme overreaction on the side of the tumblr social justice warriors, I highly doubt it. They instigated over nothing when it came to the dick wolf thing, they instigated this time, and theyll probably do it again the next time they can take dumb jokes and shit out of context.

Note: i definitely condemn mike's words and dont agree with him in the least, but his initial remarks involving female masturbation or whatever aren't offensive in the least and didnt deserve the outrage
. But mike is kinda dumb, and responds to outrage, logical or not. Until someone at PA tells mike to GTFO the internet, its gonna keep happening.

The problem's never been with the instigation, it's always been Mike putting his foot in his mouth and then doubling down on it

So uh a few questions:

Is cis a real word?
How do you pronounce it?
If male and female are used for genders, what do you use for sex?

"Siss", I think. It's not a word by itself, it's a latin prefix.

 

[Coxswain]

So uh a few questions:

Is cis a real word?
How do you pronounce it?
If male and female are used for genders, what do you use for sex?

'Cis' (pronounced 'siss') is a prefix, from Latin, meaning something like 'on the same side' - the same way that 'Trans' is a Latin prefix meaning 'on opposite sides'. Historically, it's been most commonly used in chemistry to describe the shapes of certain molecules, but obviously it's just as appropriate to describe gender/sex configurations that 'match'.


"Male" and "female" are more strongly associated with sex than with gender, and "Man" and "Woman" are more strongly associated with gender than sex - but the difference is a semantic one, so you need to provide more information than that in a situation where perfect clarity is an issue.


Edit: And I might as well say this, while I'm stopping by this thread again: Mike's latest post is potentially a very, very good first step toward become more understanding and inclusive. It's not as though an apology makes everything better, but it seems as though he might actually be starting to see where he was wrong, and he understands that it's an ongoing process of learning to understand something, rather than a one-and-done "I said sorry, so now everything's cool" kind of thing. Provided that this is actually going to be sustained, good-faith effort on his part to reevaluate his views, then I really wish him well and wouldn't hold any of this against him in the long-term.

 

[Lime]

Ultimately I do think I, hm, I'm not sure if I'd go so far as to say agree, but I do understand Jerry's position about the original controversial panel that he wants PAX to be an open dialogue of all forms, that the panel in question wasn't explicitly hateful in its concept, and that those who had a problem with it were perfectly free to either show up to the panel and voice their opinions and/or have their own panel discussing their own perspectives.

The panel was basically two white guys trying to downplay or even silence social criticism of video games with the usual "why can't we just have fun?" bullshit.

Such silencing expressions shouldn't be dedicated/granted a platform at a high-profile convention for a medium already known for having social issues.

 

[LBTRecords]

In my honest opinion I thought it was kind of pathetic that he now has turned around and donated 20 grand just because a few people on the internet were outraged for a comment he made. I would have respected him more if he stood his ground and held his position but that's just me.

 

[Lime]

I'm still surprised that someone simply has 20 grand lying around to be immediately spent without care.

Uneven social classes, I guess. :/

 

[FyreWulff]

I'm still surprised that someone simply has 20 grand lying around to be immediately spent without care.

Uneven social classes, I guess. :/

Well, he does have 230,350 spare dollars laying around...

 

[daycru]

Kickstarter for Penny Arcade apology slush fund incoming?

 

[Rentahamster]

I'm still surprised that someone simply has 20 grand lying around to be immediately spent without care.

Uneven social classes, I guess. :/

They created art. Other people found value in the art. Enough value that people would exchange money or things that can be converted into money in order to partake in that art. Among other things.

Is all of their hard work and creative output not worth the money they earned?

 

[Homu]

So uh a few questions:

Is cis a real word?
How do you pronounce it?
If male and female are used for genders, what do you use for sex?

It's an elaborate in-joke by people who have nothing better to do than apply labels onto other people just so they aren't 'not-normal', in short the tumblr 'community'.

I'm still surprised that someone simply has 20 grand lying around to be immediately spent without care.

Uneven social classes, I guess. :/

Don't worry, trickle-down economics will fix everything, I'm sure.

 

[Lime]

They created art. Other people found value in the art. Enough value that people would exchange money or things that can be converted into money in order to partake in that art. Among other things.

Is all of their hard work and creative output not worth the money they earned?

No. There are limits to how much money a person is able to withhold in regard to other people's well-being. People are lying out on the street because of lack of money, while some people have hundreds of thousands of dollars on their bank accounts to be spend carelessly or without a thought. Some people have too much money. Some people have too little money. Not saying that this applies directly to the case of this PA guy and the existence of fucking billionaires is a much bigger "fish to fry", but the acton did made me think of people in the world who simply have immediate access to the amount of 20k dollars.

But this is beyond the scope of this thread and it's a much more political discusson, but let's just boil it down to me subscribing to egalitarian distributive justice principles, while you seem to make an argument similar to Nozick's 'Wilt Chamberlain' example.