• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Did something happen with PAX or Penny Arcade today?

I think the people attacking Gabe have good intentions, but they manner in which they are doing it is a detriment to their cause. With the whole concept of twitter gathering voices with similar views, it becomes an echo chamber where the intensity becomes bigger.

and suddenly the ones clamoring for tolerance and understanding are doing neither.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
For those complaining about "PC warriors" or whatever, consider this:

yThEiZ8.png
That's sarcasm, obviously, and it points out how absurd your allegations of "political correctness" are. Gabe shit on trans people again, and has since written two hyper defensive, arrogant letters further clarifiying his transphobic views. The fact that people about this -- especially trans people -- should not be surprising. And it's not okay of you to say that their anger is illegitimate. Gabe is in the wrong here. "Your opinion is your opinion" doesn't count when you're spouting transphobic bile.
 

thumb

Banned
Just wondering why you think he should be forced to accept some one else's definition of gender definition. It really is a sensitive subject, and should not be taken lightly. He probably should have taken the high road and not responded to the tweets, but the cat is out of the bag now. Would he have gotten as much flack if he had said women have no Y chromosome?

He shouldn't be "forced to accept" anything. But he should keep an open mind and try to understand that the issue that feels so intuitive to him may have hidden complexities that merit private examination but not automatic agreement.
 

ZeroGravity

Member
I think the people attacking Gabe have good intentions, but they manner in which they are doing it is a detriment to their cause. With the whole concept of twitter gathering voices with similar views, it becomes an echo chamber where the intensity becomes bigger.

and suddenly the ones clamoring for tolerance and understanding are doing neither.
Well said.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Just wondering why you think he should be forced to accept some one else's definition of gender definition. It really is a sensitive subject, and should not be taken lightly. He probably should have taken the high road and not responded to the tweets, but the cat is out of the bag now. Would he have gotten as much flack if he had said women have no Y chromosome?
Yes, because he would have created the same "I don't know what I'm talking about but here I am being glib and caustic anyway" shitstorm.
 

big_erk

Member
He shouldn't be "forced to accept" anything. But he should keep an open mind and try to understand that the issue that feels so intuitive to him may have hidden complexities that merit private examination but not automatic agreement.

Kind of my point. I have typed up lengthy responses to posts here on GAF, only to delete them because I decided either be taken the wrong way or just be plain incendiary. It's one of the reasons I avoid making political statements on any social media. Facebook and Twitter are for me to talk about movies and games, and post pictures of my latest culinary triumph from my Kamado smoker.
 

kyoya

Member
Hell, I don't care who is boycotting it, I'm still going to PAX. I don't have a personal or professional relationship with either one of the PAX guys so I could care less. His personal opinion does not impact the event. The fact that I see a diverse group of people every year at PAX says volumes - they're not barred from entering or turned away at the door.
 
For those complaining about "PC warriors" or whatever, consider this:


That's sarcasm, obviously, and it points out how absurd your allegations of "political correctness" are. Gabe shit on trans people again, and has since written two hyper defensive, arrogant letters further clarifiying his transphobic views. The fact that people about this -- especially trans people -- should not be surprising. And it's not okay of you to say that their anger is illegitimate. Gabe is in the wrong here. "Your opinion is your opinion" doesn't count when you're spouting transphobic bile.

Is this entire post sarcasm?

Which part of that tweet is sarcasm, by the way? I assume you mean that latter half, but the front half (the part where saying women have vaginas is denying someone their humanity) is about as ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my entire life.

Yes, because he would have created the same "I don't know what I'm talking about but here I am being glib and caustic anyway" shitstorm.

What? In what way is saying "women don't have a Y chromosome" not knowing what you're talking about? That's true in almost every context of the language.
 

93xfan

Banned
This whole controversy is completely absurd.

Can we please stop accusing everyone who has a slightly different set of terminology or opinions of being a hateful bigot in the complete absence of any actual evidence of hate or bigotry?

It is perfectly reasonable for someone to have the opinion that people can identify any way they want to and behave in any way they want to and modify their bodies to match but are incapable of fundamentally changing their biological sex. It might be rude to remind a transgendered person of that repeatedly like Mike did, but rudeness is not the same thing as bigotry or hate, and calling it such just diminishes the sting of those words.

I very much agree. Thanks for your post.
 
Kind of my point. I have typed up lengthy responses to posts here on GAF, only to delete them because I decided either be taken the wrong way or just be plain incendiary. It's one of the reasons I avoid making political statements on any social media. Facebook and Twitter are for me to talk about movies and games, and post pictures of my latest culinary triumph from my Kamado smoker.

Kamado smoker? Go on...
 
No, that guy does NOT get it. And im on a phone and am not their sociology teacher. Find me explaining to em that biological sex isn't a boldly defined line, and neither is gender, is just being the pc illuminati, come to revoke the n word from the internet. When you have broader views, larger sample sizes, you see all those people who fall between or outside of those lines of societal constructs. You see that they are not insignificant.



Especially when you shake one's hand

Especially where you find yourself between those lines on something.
 
It's a guy on twitter that owns a website.

Why do people give so many shits? People have way too much idle time and nothing else to complain about. And to the people that get upset when people define people wrong, I have a really good bigender friend (since childhood) who is dating a transexual person and another friend who is transgender that dated a bisexual female. The shit is damn confusing at times, she even jokes about it and even drew me up a flow-chart... don't take it so sensitively.
 

big_erk

Member
Hell, I don't care who is boycotting it, I'm still going to PAX. I don't have a personal or professional relationship with either one of the PAX guys so I could care less. His personal opinion does not impact the event. The fact that I see a diverse group of people every year at PAX says volumes - they're not barred from entering or turned away at the door.

I agree with you. I can't make it to PAX but I will grab me some Chik-fil-a for lunch.
 

thumb

Banned
Maybe I just misinterpreted. If so, my bad.

Remember that Mike has stated that he doesn't believe people should be treated differently based on their sexual orientation (or words to that effect). Thus, he does "care" about some such issues, even if they are not a driving motivation for his work or life. My comment was made with that in mind.
 
You can have empathy for people being hurt by things without believing that they have the right to be protected from ever being hurt. You can have empathy for the person being offended while still believing that the offensive statement is a perfectly valid opinion.

No one has the right to not be offended.

i think the problem is that once someone feels slighted, they think it gives them a blank check to explode and become completely nasty and hostile.

It's like responding to a shove with an uppercut punch to the jaw.

the people against Gabe are stressing the importance of choosing words that are sensitive to others, yet they are completely mean-spirited and awful with their word choices.
 
I think the people attacking Gabe have good intentions, but they manner in which they are doing it is a detriment to their cause. With the whole concept of twitter gathering voices with similar views, it becomes an echo chamber where the intensity becomes bigger.

and suddenly the ones clamoring for tolerance and understanding are doing neither.

It's quite possible for activism to go too far and be alienating. That's true. However, it is important to note that if one believes in the cause, they do need to ensure that their voices are heard. For people who really care about acceptance of transgendered people -- while reasoned discussion should always be the aim -- it's possible that the message may need to be amplified.

Transgendered people want to be accepted, not ridiculed, dismissed, or thought of as weirdos. When the popular sentiment is "those people can call themselves whatever the hell they want, but they're wrong," politely agreeing to disagree isn't going to lead to progress. Sure, that doesn't mean you have to relentlessly antagonize them as hateful bigots, but it is necessary to challenge the status quo.
 
It's a guy on twitter that owns a website.

Why do people give so many shits? People have way too much idle time and nothing else to complain about. I have a really good bigender friend and another friend who is transgender. The shit is damn confusing at times!

This is akin to what I said earlier on.

Now I'm just here because I have a lot of free time at work today.
 
Steve Gaynor (Idle Thumbs, Fullbright Company) on why their game won't be at PAX http://thefullbrightcompany.com/2013/06/21/why-we-are-not-showing-gone-home-at-pax/
Good on them!
Just... stop being an asshole? Maybe?
Yup.
My America would be better because it'd be less about politics or being butt hurt but rather try to stay healthy and live a happy life. I'm still going to PAX, and I'll have a ton of street passes while having fun for the companies or people that won't be there because the word "fun" doesn't register correctly to some people and think their actions or opinions actually matter without required power when we have 8+ billion people in the world. :)
Uh huh.

Aw yeah.
 

Asriel

Member
]My America would be better because it'd be less about politics or being butt hurt but rather try to stay healthy and live a happy life. I'm still going to PAX, and I'll have a ton of street passes while having fun for the companies or people that won't be there because the word "fun" doesn't register correctly to some people and think their actions or opinions actually matter without required power when we have 8+ billion people in the world. :)

Sigh.

These aren't mutually exclusive.

I give up.
 

big_erk

Member
Kamado smoker? Go on...

I wanted a Big Green Egg but they are way too expensive for me. So I found the Char-Griller Akorn Kamado. It's under $300 and is the best smoker/cooker I have ever owned. Using about a pound of lump charcoal I can run the smoker at 225 degrees for around 10-12 hours and the results are excellent.
 
I wanted a Big Green Egg but they are way too expensive for me. So I found the Char-Griller Akorn Kamado. It's under $300 and is the best smoker/cooker I have ever owned. Using about a pound of lump charcoal I can run the smoker at 225 degrees for around 10-12 hours and the results are excellent.

That sounds pretty awesome. I haven't owned a smoker in years. One of my favorite things to do was get a nice chunk of sharp chedder and smoke the shit out of it.

Or a turkey. Though for the last two Thanksgiving dinners my family has had, we now deep fry the turkey. So delicious.
 

marrec

Banned
Does anyone here complaining about his stance READ Penny Arcade? The dude's always said asshole shit over the years.

I did years and years ago, but grew out of the humor. Even after I stopped reading PA I still listened to their Podcast when they did it... and I was fully intending on going to PAX East this year. I don't think I can go to PAX East now.
 
That sounds pretty awesome. I haven't owned a smoker in years. One of my favorite things to do was get a nice chunk of sharp chedder and smoke the shit out of it.

Or a turkey. Though for the last two Thanksgiving dinners my family has had, we now deep fry the turkey. So delicious.

My fam fried their turkey one year, it was the dryest damn thing I've ever eaten
 

guek

Banned
The fact that the transgender community seems incapable of seeing how their response was equally inappropriate and in many ways more legitimately bigoted only reaffirms the fact that they need better leaders. Being an outraged minority does not entitle you to always being correct. This is a pressing issue among the vocal feminist community as well.

Gabe was wrong to do what he did and he himself has admitted that but it seems that most people really don't care. This isn't about a minority butting heads against bigoted oppression, this a minority demonizing someone for the sole purpose of having a figure they can collectively hate. And a few weeks or months later, they'll latch on to a new target, hoping to fuel their cause with more hate and outrage instead of opting for reasonable discourse.
 
My fam fried their turkey one year, it was the dryest damn thing I've ever eaten

I don't know if came out right then? I mean the outer area was a bit try but once you got a little into it, it was tender and moist.

Though.. the most delicious meat I've eaten was at my first pig roast a few weeks back. That pig just melted in your mouth.
 

marrec

Banned
The fact that the transgender community seems incapable of seeing how their response was equally inappropriate and in many ways more legitimately bigoted only reaffirms the fact that they need better leaders. Being an outraged minority does not entitle you to always being correct. This is a pressing issue among the vocal feminist community as well.

Gabe was wrong to do what he did and he himself has admitted that but it seems that most people really don't care. This isn't about a minority butting heads against bigoted oppression, this a minority demonizing someone for the sole purpose of having a figure they can collectively hate. And a few weeks or months later, they'll latch on to a new target, hoping to fuel their cause with more hate and outrage instead of opting for reasonable discourse.

I agree, the person who said 'cis male garbage' is an idiot. It would have been nice of Mike, though, to point that out instead of take an even more assholistic stance. Lets focus on ways both communities can communicate better, instead of have our most vocal assholes duke it out on Twitter.

I know that Mike did have a conversation with Sophie afterwards, but he continues to insist on using now intentionally inflammatory language so obviously that didn't help.
 
I agree, the person who said 'cis male garbage' is an idiot. It would have been nice of Mike, though, to point that out instead of take an even more assholistic stance. Lets focus on ways both communities can communicate better, instead of have our most vocal assholes duke it out on Twitter.

twitter doesn't allow for intelligible discussions, it is very easy to get carried away and respond to stupid tweets with stupid stuff

I mean, he's a businessman right? i hope for his business that he learned to stop using twitter as a personal venting platform
 

Sibylus

Banned
The fact that the transgender community seems incapable of seeing how their response was equally inappropriate and in many ways more legitimately bigoted only reaffirms the fact that they need better leaders. Being an outraged minority does not entitle you to always being correct. This is a pressing issue among the vocal feminist community as well.

Gabe was wrong to do what he did and he himself has admitted that but it seems that most people really don't care. This isn't about a minority butting heads against bigoted oppression, this a minority demonizing someone for the sole purpose of having a figure they can collectively hate. And a few weeks or months later, they'll latch on to a new target, hoping to fuel their cause with more hate and outrage instead of opting for reasonable discourse.
I refuse to be lumped into the mix with people discriminating against him on the basis of being cisgendered, along with all the other hateful garbage. They do not represent me, nor do they lead me. What the fuck, man. Who the fuck are you to determine that these assholes represent me?
 

Schnozberry

Member
twitter doesn't allow for intelligible discussions, it is very easy to get carried away and respond to stupid tweets with stupid stuff

I mean, he's a businessman right? i hope for his business that he learned to stop using twitter as a personal venting platform

For his own sake, I hope so. Mike at least acknowledged he was a total jackass. I haven't seen the same reciprocation from the other side, which was just as indefensible. Being offended doesn't give you right to threaten someone's life, no matter self righteous you feel about it.
 
twitter doesn't allow for intelligible discussions, it is very easy to get carried away and respond to stupid tweets with stupid stuff

I mean, he's a businessman right? i hope for his business that he learned to stop using twitter as a personal venting platform
Mike is no businessman, he draws comics and that's pretty much it. Robert is the brains of the business side of PA and I have no doubt he has taken notice of this whole thing. Hopefully he gives Mike some lessons in PR and public image so it doesn't hurt PA which, all things considered, is and incredibly good thing for charity and games.
 

Schnozberry

Member
I refuse to be lumped into the mix with people discriminating against him on the basis of being cisgendered, along with all the other hateful garbage. They do not represent me, nor do they lead me. What the fuck, man. Who the fuck are you to determine that these assholes represent me?

Well, if you read what people said on twitter, they claimed to represent a community. It's unfair and sad, but it's a consequence of a society that is mired in collectivism and associates social identity and rights with groups instead of individuals.
 
Ok, this sounds pretty good. He actually seems sincerely sorry.


Damn. It almost sounded like he was willing to learn more on the subject of transgenderism but I guess not. It's sort of sad that he has helped create as massive event where all kinds of different people come together to celebrate games yet has no interest in learning about them. I expect this debacle won't be the last.

Reading that second explanation, I'm more inclined to agree with Gabe than ever.

Him getting pissed off and lashing out is why this is being discussed right now, but this was instigated so ridiculously by the PC police and in some part by the transgender community that it's just mindboggling.

He doesn't have to give a shit and study the intricacies of transgenderism. No one has to. And those who are interested aren't even necessarily assisted. Fuck, I've said several times in this thread that I would appreciate being led to some legitimate material on the subject and points other people are bringing up, and not one could be assed enough to bother linking any. They just keep motioning evasively at "research," which I'm sure exists but am not sure a lot of these ruffled feathers have ever read themselves or even know much about.

The only thing anyone should reasonably expect from another person is to be polite and to not be violent or oppressive. We tolerate people that are different than us and treat them how we would want to be treated. That doesn't mean we adopt their core belief system. And it doesn't mean you're a hateful piece of shit because you don't adopt their beliefs.

But people are demanding just that. Not only that, they demand that other views not even be discussed.

This whole thing started from a panel at PAX that was going to discuss whether the PC police were contributing anything to the community. And instead of going to the fucking panel, listening to what they actually had to say, and asking them important questions in the Q&A, people go ballistic, call everyone bigots, and demand the conversation not be allowed to take place in the first place. Are you fucking kidding me?

Also contributing was discussion over a video game about girls learning to masturbate and people being offended that no one in the game had a dick... Are you fucking kidding me? This is a pure PC lexical complaint that is pure bullshit. It's just baffling.

And in the midst of this witch hunt, no one has stopped to think that even if you subscribe to the belief that a woman can be born inside a man's body and that that person ought to be called a "woman"—not a "transgender woman" even — but a woman, can you not understand how it might be considered inappropriate to the majority population to give girls a game about how to masturbate a penis? Honestly, the whole fucking thing sounds inappropriate to me regardless, but let's go off the assumption that a kids game about masturbation for educational purposes is an okay thing.

Was Gabe an asshole on Twitter? Yeah. Everyone admits it, even him. But fuck everyone who brought it to that point. This kind of shit is why you get drive-by "PC police" comments. It is out of control. It isn't even about disrespecting people, it's about striving so hard to be considered the same that it is offensive to be reminded that some people are in fact different.
 

Alec

Member
Man, I am glad I don't get worked up and offended about stuff. You guys all seem to be having a pretty awful time with this discussion.
 

GungHo

Single-handedly caused Exxon-Mobil to sue FOX, start World War 3
I'm sure he gave it the ol' VGCats treatment and only read one panel.

No, I read the whole thing. I understand what they're trying to say with the strip. I also understand that the one who is "pretending" to be the mental midget in the strip to represent the mental midgetness of the gaming community is the actual mental midget who is pissing people off currently by being an actual mental midget.

But, thanks for assuming I'm a dipshit.
 

rSpooky

Member
So now his apology is not enough? I was brought up to accept someones apology and "shake and make up" Does not mean you have to forget/forgive everything, but it is your chance to redirect the conversation ,move forward instead of going in circles and for everyone to be less inflammatory.
 

Sibylus

Banned
Well, if you read what people said on twitter, they claimed to represent a community. It's unfair and sad, but it's a consequence of a society that is mired in collectivism and associates social identity and rights with groups instead of individuals.
Twitter trash doesn't represent me anywhere, I don't give a fuck about what they say or claim. The people who set him off come off far worse than him in my eyes, because what they said was malicious and intended to tear him down as a person. Yes, I'm frankly offended if you think the trans community (and myself by extension) recognizes such people as our representatives and our leaders. There were cooler heads trying to talk to him through this, but do they get recognition or kudos? Seldom. Sometimes even zero.
 
I don't know if came out right then? I mean the outer area was a bit try but once you got a little into it, it was tender and moist.

Though.. the most delicious meat I've eaten was at my first pig roast a few weeks back. That pig just melted in your mouth.

I think its just too much as one piece, the outer part has to be nylon before the inside gets done
 
Top Bottom