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From what I remember MS was one of the very first to fold for the NSA. Apple was one of the last. I'd rather not have a kinect camera in my house.
That's the thing that really turns me off from Microsoft. It seems they have more people working on how to use Kinect for marketing purposes and useless remote control functionality than that have trying to figure out how to use it effectively in a game.
Right, and Microsoft is requiring all games to have some sort of Kinect functionality. The camera will basically need to be on to play games. That's enough of a problem for some people. This idea that people are only worried about it when the system is turned off is not accurate.
It seems like nothing Microsoft does will have an impact on you anyway.
This is not because I trust them to do the right thing for their customers (I do not) but because I trust them to do the right thing for themselves. Any detected use of Kinect to 'spy' on people would instantly blow up into a massive mainstream media story that would destroy the Xbox division for ever and have massive financial implications for Microsoft as a whole.
Right, and Microsoft is requiring all games to have some sort of Kinect functionality. The camera will basically need to be on to play games. That's enough of a problem for some people. This idea that people are only worried about it when the system is turned off is not accurate.
It seems like nothing Microsoft does will have an impact on you anyway.
Why is the camera being on a problem? Every time I turn my PS3 on the blue light for my Eye camera comes on as well and my PS3 is always connected online. So?
Not one person has told me why I should be worried.
Why is the camera being on a problem? Every time I turn my PS3 on the blue light for my Eye camera comes on as well and my PS3 is always connected online. So?
Not one person has told me why I should be worried.
Why is the camera being on a problem? Every time I turn my PS3 on the blue light for my Eye camera comes on as well and my PS3 is always connected online. So?
Not one person has told me why I should be worried.
Why is the camera being on a problem? Every time I turn my PS3 on the blue light for my Eye camera comes on as well and my PS3 is always connected online. So?
Not one person has told me why I should be worried.
Microsoft already broke their own encryption for web-outlook so that NSA would be able to spy. Outlook - which is also a part of Microsoft Office. And Microsoft is dependant on businesses buying their Office.
If they already risk their business in such case, why would you assume that the success of a videogame console would be more important to them? It seems they don't give a shit about their image and about their customers.
Spying via email intercepts has a precedent. The NSA has been using it for some time since 9/11 because we the people (via congress) gave them the authority to do it.
"Nacchio suggested that the NSA sought phone, Internet and other customer records from Qwest in early 2001. When he refused to hand over the information, the agency retaliated by not granting lucrative contracts to the Denver-based company, he claimed."
Spying via captured video and audio from personal devices on a large scale is unprecedented.
There's no way the NSA could legitimately expect all video and audio streams from everybody's Kinect. This is not going to happen.
You should be worried because this company has severely broken the trust of its consumers by serving up their privacy on a silver platter without anyone knowing. If you have the same concerns about Sony, unplug your pseye. You have no such option if you want an Xbone.
If paying for a potential surveillance system to be used on yourself doesn't have you worried then I'm not sure what will
You can unplug your PSEye, throw it in a drawer and your PS3 will still work. Not the case with the Xbone and Kinect.
Sony isn't signed up with Prism. But it doesn't really matter what people say. You've made up your mind to aggressively defend all things MS. Why should anyone bother attempting to tell you why you should be worried when you refuse to be worried about anything from this company.
What exactly am I supposed to be doing that I need to worry about?
You should be worried because this company has severely broken the trust of its consumers by serving up their privacy on a silver platter without anyone knowing. If you have the same concerns about Sony, unplug your pseye. You have no such option if you want an Xbone.
If you're not doing anything wrong, then why do you accept being spied on?
Why do you accept the terms for Xbox Live if you don't plan on doing anything wrong? Why are you ignoring the fact you can adjust the privacy settings for the Kinect sensor? How is it going to spy on me if it's not connected to the Internet?
Why do you feel the need to dramatize? How do you know I defend everything MS does, we are talking about the KInect sensor and what impact if any it will have on those who use it and what concerns are actually relevant and not just hyperbole.
Honestly, I feel some of you are holding back technology and human advancement with your unreasonable paranoia. Microsoft watching people is a possibility, but I don't consider it a likely one.
So basically Microsoft's response means "yes, the NSA can spy on you using Kinect if they want to."
Old enough to figure out how to turn my Xbox One on and set up the Kinect sensor when I get it.
I guess I'm not as old as you.
The impact is that it will affect sales because there will be a subsection of potential consumers that do not wish to have camera and microphone features in their living room. It's that simple. We can go back and forth where many posters here feel that it is relevant and you and others will continue to come back to have a defense because you feel that it is hyperbole. That's been the discussion this entire time, back and forth between people who will not buy an XBO because of this feature and people who will still get one no matter what.
So really they should just close the thread at this point because it's nothing but back and forth and no forward progress because both sides are entrenched into their decision.
Thank goodness. For a second I thought you were an adult.
It's not "if they want to" when it would require new laws: "Absent a new law, we don’t believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data".
If the government had that authority, the Xbox would be the least of your worries. There are hundreds of millions if not billions of notebooks, tablets, and phones out there that could be used for spying just as well as an Xbox.
Honestly, I feel some of you are holding back technology and human advancement with your unreasonable paranoia.
Microsoft watching people is a possibility, but I don't consider it a likely one.
People forgive and forget Sonys rootkit.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_BMG_copy_protection_rootkit_scandal
People will forget NSA thing in another 6 years when this generation is over.
It's not "if they want to" when it would require new laws: "Absent a new law, we don’t believe the government has the legal authority to compel us or any other company that makes products with cameras and microphones to start collecting voice and video data".
If the government had that authority, the Xbox would be the least of your worries. There are hundreds of millions if not billions of notebooks, tablets, and phones out there that could be used for spying just as well as an Xbox.
If I went through your post history, would I find you defending the drm?Why do you feel the need to dramatize? How do you know I defend everything MS does, we are talking about the KInect sensor and what impact if any it will have on those who use it and what concerns are actually relevant and not just hyperbole.
They can collect video from Skype though right? What's the difference?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/prism-collection-documents/images/prism-slide-4.jpg[img]
It clearly states voice and video data on that slide.
Also, the law states they can collect data without a warrant if the location of the person is outside of the US or a US citizen speaking to someone who is outside of the US. If they do collect data inadvertently that originates purely from inside of the country, there are also concessions in the law that protects them. When collecting large pools of data they claim it is impossible to filter domestic from non-domestic. Basically that means a large amount of data is being collected from US citizens anyway. They are protected as long as they claim the data was collected inadvertently.
Basically, in a number of cases they do not need to get a court order at all.[/QUOTE]
And don't forget this little detail:
[url]http://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/07/you-may-already-be-a-winner-in-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/[/url]
[quote]In testimony yesterday before the House Judiciary Committee, National Security Agency Deputy Director Chris Inglis said that the NSA’s probing of data in search of terrorist activity extended “two to three hops” away from suspected terrorists. Previously, NSA leaders had said surveillance was limited to only two “hops” from a suspect.[/quote]
TL;DR: A single approval from the rubber stamping secret court could translate into millions of "persons of interest".
I am all for civil discussions but I have yet heard one reason why I should be worried. That is not to dismiss anybody who may have concerns. Some people don't like Google tracking the sites you visit for example, some feel Kinect could track your habits and lead to advertising or pop-ups. I just find it odd how some go right to the worst case scenario and think that will apply to everyone who may use it.
What's with the insults? If you are offended I don't have any issue with the Kinect sensor being built in with the Xbox One that is your problem, not mine.
They can collect video from Skype though right? What's the difference?
It clearly states voice and video data on that slide.
Also, the law states they can collect data without a warrant if the location of the person is outside of the US or a US citizen speaking to someone who is outside of the US. If they do collect data inadvertently that originates purely from inside of the country, there are also concessions in the law that protects them. When collecting large pools of data they claim it is impossible to filter domestic from non-domestic. Basically that means a large amount of data is being collected from US citizens anyway. They are protected as long as they claim the data was collected inadvertently.
Basically, in a number of cases they do not need to get a court order at all.
That's how I read it. They'll perhaps voice their reservations but give in. Tye whole prism thing shows us the government gets what they want when it comes to supposed national security.So basically Microsoft's response means "yes, the NSA can spy on you using Kinect if they want to."
Thanks for clearing that up, Microsoft.
And don't forget this little detail:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration-user-dataBlanket orders from the secret surveillance court allow these communications to be collected without an individual warrant if the NSA operative has a 51% belief that the target is not a US citizen and is not on US soil at the time. Targeting US citizens does require an individual warrant, but the NSA is able to collect Americans' communications without a warrant if the target is a foreign national located overseas.
I like how Youtube is on their and no one is complaining. Youtube by default means everything Google.
There's been a lot of "if you've got nothing to hide, you shouldn't be worried" talk. To anyone saying that, are you atheist? Are you aware of what large groups of people would like to do to you? Are you gay or have any gay friends? Do you smoke weed? Is there a chance you'd ever rally against anything? e.g. the occupy movement?
Not trying to make anyone worried, but opening yourself up to surveillance voluntarily gives them all the tools they need, before its decided that what you're doing or thinking is wrong. Pretty much throwing away your freedom because you're comfortable with how things are right now.
The general goal of the Social Media in Strategic Communication (SMISC) program is to develop a new science of social networks built on an emerging technology base. In particular, SMISC will develop automated and semi‐automated operator support tools and techniques for the systematic and methodical use of social media at data scale and in a timely fashion to accomplish four specific program goals:
1. Detect, classify, measure and track the (a) formation, development and spread of ideas
and concepts (memes), and (b) purposeful or deceptive messaging and misinformation.
2. Recognize persuasion campaign structures and influence operations across social media
sites and communities.
3. Identify participants and intent, and measure effects of persuasion campaigns.
4. Counter messaging of detected adversary influence operations.
If I went through your post history, would I find you defending the drm?
This is the issue. You welcome dystopia. Most people don't.
Have you read 1984? Any of Orwell's books? Do you even fully understand what a dystopia is? Do you understand why other people might not feel quite as apathetic about it as you do?
We are moving closer and closer to a surveillance state. This is a fact. For fucks sake man, we're having a discussion about civil rights and how valuable privacy is because of what a new video games console is capable of doing.
Can you at least concede that they should offer us the opportunity to unplug it when it's disabled? Them saying the features can be turned off, which you quoted and bolded earlier, doesn't mean anything when they've also said it can still be collecting anonymous data. This thread exists because they've indirectly confirmed that spying on people utilizing Kinect is possible.
This is not okay.
louis cyphre, are you pulling everybody's leg here?
if you are pro drm and pro always kinect, then this can only make you one thing (and not an xbot): a microsoft employee or someone in a parallel job description.
unplugging the entire system from power plug everytime you finish using it is not convenient for normal people.
much easier to disconnect the kinect and throw it somewhere until YOU decide you want to use it.
nonsense. that's not a common practice. you unplug your tv/ projector, cable box, accessories every time? I imagine most folks, for the past 100 years just shut off the power. everything is hooked up to surge protectors generally.You should be unplugging your entire system when not in use anyways.Like all electronics.
louis cyphre, are you pulling everybody's leg here?
if you are pro drm and pro always kinect, then this can only make you one thing (and not an xbot): a microsoft employee or someone in a parallel job description.
And don't forget this little detail:
http://arstechnica.com/information-...-nsas-three-degrees-surveillance-sweepstakes/
TL;DR: A single approval from the rubber stamping secret court could translate into millions of "persons of interest".
louis cyphre, are you pulling everybody's leg here?
if you are pro drm and pro always kinect, then this can only make you one thing (and not an xbot): a microsoft employee or someone in a parallel job description.
unplugging the entire system from power plug everytime you finish using it is not convenient for normal people.
much easier to disconnect the kinect and throw it somewhere until YOU decide you want to use it.
and you compare microsoft and kinect to gaf cookies and email addresses? LOL
No I shouldn't, and definitely I shouldn't buy something that will make me think about things like these.You should be unplugging your entire system when not in use anyways.Like all electronics.
given that microsoft has the voice recognition program libraries done => the work is done and the same methods and calls can be used by any sound input device (ie -> headset)It is a positive because using the headset the devs have to do all the work. Kinect has voice software built in. Saves money and time and opens voice commands up to more people. So positive!
This is just MS saying what they believe, not necessarily what is reality. There could already be secret laws which allow the government to basically do whatever the hell they want. What I personally believe is that the NSA will pretty clearly do what they please with or without the authority. If they don't have the authority they will make new laws or break existing laws to get what they want.
And again with changing the subject to other devices. Yeah, they're bad too. We know. There's many differences though you have to think about (if you're even willing to). We already own some of these devices like cell phones and laptops and such. We aren't going to throw them away now that we already have them. We'll just do what we can to minimize the impact. It may not be the best solution, but it's obviously one people are putting up with for the time being.
That differs from the Kinect 2 in that we do not yet own it. We have the chance and the knowledge now to say no to that before it's in our hands. If we found this stuff out 2 years into the Kinect 2.0's life, we'd still be pissed but most would still not just get up and throw away their $500 console over it.
I hate this assumption. It's unreasonable. Some of us just don't think the Kinect sitting there on is something to worry about.