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[StiLt]

Unsurprising. With the flare up over prism in the EU (particular Germany) specifically over privacy and corporate safe harbour concerns, I very much doubt the possible legislative headache was looking like an attractive corner to fight if it cropped up to bite them. Coupled with being an easy target for negative public perception and sensationalist tabloiding, this particular 180 was a decidedly shrewd manoeuvre ahead of launch.

On a personal level, it was one of my major deal breakers and has made it likely that I'll now pick one up mid to later in the gen. Once the price is down and the library is fully fleshed out.

Overall, good news and a positive outlook for more effective competition going forward.

 

[Castef]

Who can blame them?
I mean at this point we try to get everything we want and more.

Nah. Most of them simply want to "cut".

Just to have 2 identical console and be able to complain about this in a year or two.

 

[Mael]

Nah. Most of them simply want to "cut".

Just to have 2 identical console and be able to complain about this in a year or two.

For all intent and purposes it's already the case really (and was since last gen if not more).
Seriously appart from the odd exclusive they serve the same audience with the same games.
They're already nearly identical.

 

[Castef]

For all intent and purposes it's already the case really (and was since last gen if not more).
Seriously appart from the odd exclusive they serve the same audience with the same games.
They're already nearly identical.

And yet, some people want to remove the only different feature of Xbox One (to save 100$...).

I really hope Microsoft won't listen to this non-sense.

 

[Majanew]

Funny thing is, allowing for the cost of Kinnect in the BOM, made them compromise on the GPU and RAM type that was used.

Cheaping out on those two components for a now non mandatory piece of the Xbox's 'raison d'etre' has put them at a disadvantage they won't be able to fix.



What an utter cluster fuck of a dept Xbox became under that prick Mattrick's direction...

No it wasn't. MS went with DDR3 because it guaranteed they could use 8GB. Sony lucked out with GDDR5 improvements. And neither GPU is that great.

 

[harlekin]

 

[Mael]

And yet, some people want to remove the only different feature of Xbox One (to save 100$...).

I really hope Microsoft won't listen to this non-sense.

No really Kinect change nothing.
I mean if Ubi can do its Just Dance the same way with Move than they do with Kinect no one will care at all about the difference here.
And that's for the "casual" customer (and here it's really casual and not expanded market), for the core customer it have negative value.
So really it's not a differentiator at all especially when you look at how it's used.

 

[Screaming Meat]

Sometimes the Neogaf gang reminds me of this...

XD

And yet, some people want to remove the only different feature of Xbox One (to save 100$...).

I really hope Microsoft won't listen to this non-sense.

You're right. It is absolutely mental that I don't want to pay for something that I'm never going to use... utter nonsense.

 

[ZiggyRoXx]

No it wasn't. MS went with DDR3 because it guaranteed they could use 8GB. Sony lucked out with GDDR5 improvements.

Lol...maybe, just maybe if they didn't have to worry about paying for Kinnect, they could have taken a gamble on going down the GDDR5 route as well, certainly 4GB of it as Sony did, and they could have gone to 8GB after Sony revealed it's hand in February.

Paying for Kinnect influenced every design decision they made.

And neither GPU is that great.

That's not the point, the PS4 GPU is still significantly stronger than the Xbox GPU...and there is no policy they can change that will fix that.

 

[News Bot]

Still don't understand why people even bother rejoicing. Attempting to do it (and so many other questionable things) in the first place pretty much guarantees I won't be getting an XB1 for a few years at least, like... when one comes into work for repair and the owner doesn't want it anymore. And those who do make the purchase are still willingly paying more for less...

 

[SmokedMeat]

For all intent and purposes it's already the case really (and was since last gen if not more).
Seriously appart from the odd exclusive they serve the same audience with the same games.
They're already nearly identical.

More like many audiences considering all of the genres their systems cover.

 

[Majanew]

Lol...maybe, just maybe if they didn't have to worry about paying for Kinnect, they could have taken a gamble on going down the GDDR5 route as well.

Paying for Kinnect influenced every design decision they made.




That's not the point, the PS4 GPU is still significantly stronger than the Xbox GPU...and there is no policy they can change that will fix that.

Money wasn't the issue on gambling that they would be able to have 8GB GDDR5 on time. They wanted that RAM amount for their OS plans. And since Sony doesn't have an included camera, they should have made the box a little bigger and put a beefier GPU in. What's their excuse?

 

[deadlast]

You're right. It is absolutely mental that I don't want to pay for something that I'm never going to use... utter nonsense.

I paid for a kinect, once. Never again!

I honestly don't see why I can't use a kinect 1.0 to do the menu navigation that MS was touting. Or, God forbid, the controller.

 

[spekkeh]

This is how I feel. Confirm for me that I can use it as a devkit and I'll probably bite.

I still wonder how this works. Kinect dev kit is 400, xbox one is 500. Seems crazy not to get a xbone at 100. Or maybe that's what they're aiming for?

 

[Screaming Meat]

I paid for a kinect, once. Never again!

I honestly don't see why I can't use a kinect 1.0 to do the menu navigation that MS was touting. Or, God forbid, the controller.

UNBELIEVER! When the Microsoft Revolution comes, you will be the first against the wall! etc.

 

[ZiggyRoXx]

Money wasn't the issue on gambling that they would be able to have 8GB GDDR5 on time

Money/cost is always the issue

And since Sony doesn't have an included camera, they should have made the box a little bigger and put a beefier GPU in. What's their excuse?

Why would they include a beefier GPU when they already have a clear advantage over the Xbox at no extra cost to themselves?

 

[Bundy]

Money wasn't the issue on gambling that they would be able to have 8GB GDDR5 on time. They wanted that RAM amount for their OS plans. And since Sony doesn't have an included camera, they should have made the box a little bigger and put a beefier GPU in. What's their excuse?

SONY has put the most powerful GPU into the PS4 you can get for a 399$/€ system.
Check the performance, ROPs, CU's, + the better RAM, etc.
There is no "excuse" needed. Their goal was always a 399$ console and they got it.
The price/value ratio for the PS4 is amazing.

 

[Alx]

I paid for a kinect, once. Never again!

I honestly don't see why I can't use a kinect 1.0 to do the menu navigation that MS was touting. Or, God forbid, the controller.

You always could use the controller to navigate the menus... just like on 360.

 

[Majanew]

Money/cost is always the issue



Why would they include a beefier GPU when they already have a clear advantage over the Xbox at no extra cost to themselves?

Money isn't why they didn't put their hopes in GDDR5 being improved by the time they were wanting to release. They were looking into DDR4 also.

they could have taken a gamble on going down the GDDR5 route as well, certainly 4GB of it as Sony did, and they could have gone to 8GB after Sony revealed it's hand in February.

Just saw this edit. Because then Xbox One would have only had 1GB for games and 3GB for OS if they would have been stuck with 4GB GDDR5. Not that hard to understand.

 

[fantomena]

Good, now sell me an Xbone wothout the Kinect, then you got a customer, until then, nope.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Thats ugly but its still funny lol

 

[rvy]

They flipped a switch again? Praise the Heavens.

At this rate, you gonna run out of switches to flip Microsoft.

 

[NIGHT-]

Shame it will still be left with a shitty GPU.

You could say the same about ps4. Neither gpu is gonna be very future proof this gen.

 

[harlekin]

Thats ugly but its still funny lol

Reposted to clean up the color of the hand.

 

[ZiggyRoXx]

You could say the same about ps4. Neither gpu is gonna be very future proof this gen.

Well like I said before, it's all relative, weak and less weak, but one is till stronger than the other....if you get my meaning.

 

[sunnz]

You could say the same about ps4. Neither gpu is gonna be very future proof this gen.

Yes but as others have already said, the main competitor for the ps4, the XBONE, is weaker and it doesn't really matter how the ps4 GPU compares to the GPUs the PC's have ( were comparable GPU's alone are about the same price as the whole system) since that is its own market.

 

[NullPointer]

XBOX 360-2

All the One is now is a hardware refresh.

You could always turn the Kinect off in software. Whats changed is that you can physically disconnect it without disabling your xbox.

So yeah, I still don't get why some Xbox fans are dismissive of this change, or think that the Kinect is in any way more optional than it already was.

 

[fatgamecat]

MS can make their product 'for developers', but they have to sell it 'to customers'. Perhaps bundling kinect is not the right balance between the two.

In any case, this is still a good change. The list of negative bullet points is slowly shrinking. Of course there's still specs and price, but the bundled kinect is seems directly related to both of those.

I'm also wondering where the kinect focused X1 games are. Maybe I missed them? Dance Central maybe?

 

[SmokyDave]

I got these cheeseburgers, man! ...I'll suck yo dick...

 

[Zen_Arcade]

And yet, some people want to remove the only different feature of Xbox One (to save 100$...).

I really hope Microsoft won't listen to this non-sense.

Just because Kinect sets the Xbox One apart from PS4 doesn't mean everyone should want Kinect. Sure, it makes Xbox One a different console, but it's a difference I couldn't care less about and adds additional price to a product by giving me something I have no plans on using.

 

[mrklaw]

come on MS, just one more to flip.

 

[wildfire]

Is there any other product launch in history where the product reveled was almost the exact opposite as the product released due to customer backlash? So many people in this thread wanna high five and chest bump Microsoft after completely changing their product vision. Microsoft has to be embarrassed. They have changed nearly every policy and feature they spent weeks defending. Sure, they responded to their potential customers. However, to swing and miss SO BADLY with your initial plan and feature set makes it hard to feel confident in Microsoft moving forward.

How can you feel honestly confident in Microsoft moving forward considering all their visions and ideas for this system have been completely out of line with those of gamers? They stood by their decisions for so long, then backpedaled, folded, and made their system more similar to the competition.


At least for those concerned with the decision making at Microsoft, and having a hard time staying confident in them for years to come, there are alternative consoles you can support.

If I was investor I would be concerned. As a consumer it's just a console with a piece of hardware I find questionable. The only thing that concerns me is how many games won't function without kinect activated.

 

[Moon_frogger]

To push it on us.

No, to make it more appealing to developers. Even those of you mad about the extra 100 dollars price tag must see how having 2 skus would split the dev base, much like selling the 360 without a hard drive. It's pretty simple.

 

[NullPointer]

The only thing that concerns me is how many games won't function without kinect activated.

Wouldn't it be safe to assume that it wouldn't be required from multiplatform titles, and maybe even not many first party ones either?

come on MS, just one more to flip.

Yep. That change would bring them back into the land of reason.

 

[twobear]

MS should drop XBLG entirely, like Paul Thurrot suggested.

 

[Doomshroom]

Reread the posts. He's judging Kinect 2 based on the launch lineup which is a pretty ridiculous thing to do.

In any case, you're just going to have to accept that Kinect is part of the XBO. One might not care much for bluray, but we're paying MS and Sony to incorporate it nonetheless. If you detest the price so much, don't buy it. It's a simple solution. But don't complain about the Kinect using its previous iteration, which was never properly integrated into the console's userbase, as a means to prop up your argument against Kinect 2. That is disingenuous.

Im not judging kinect 2 i even said im sure its improved i am judging MS. They need to show me why i want a Kinect 2 and until they do i would not want to spend a penny on it.

 

[Drek]

Pretty soon Microsoft is going to turn the Xbox One into a weaker PS4 sold at a $100 premium.

 

[Deleted member 125677]

As I said after the DRM 180, I would not be surprised if we will see a Kinect-less $399 SKU at launch. Amazing if they do a 180 on this as well!

 

[harlekin]

 

[DigitalDevilSummoner]

So yeah, I still don't get why some Xbox fans are dismissive of this change, or think that the Kinect is in any way more optional than it already was.

Because of MS's flimsy behavior in the last few months. Push comes to shove, the kinect is out of the box. Unlikely but a possibility now and people are thinking about it; what if I make a leap of faith, buy a launch xboxone and the kinect is dropped in a few months ?
There is no physical requirement anymore, it was all PR talk.

 

[Gowans]

come on MS, just one more to flip.

hahaha


that's the one main reason i wouldn't suggest to anyone getting it as a media centre box,

 

[p3tran]

MS should drop XBLG entirely, like Paul Thurrot suggested.

I dont think that they are smart enough for this.

What they should do, to lessen the price gap with ps4 (because it will matter)
is to offer a free downloadable full game and one year (-or even 6months but no less) live with the 500e box.

Now if they do this, then the perception of what you get for the 100e more would change significantly, and would probably make sony bundle something too.

win (for ms) - win (for consumer in general)

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

I thought they have been saying this since the reveal. Pretty sure they said the Kinect could be turned off back in May.

This doesn't change anything, other than it doesn't need to be plugged in. However, like the online requirement I am sure games are going to be developed that force users to use the Kinect even if it is in addition to the controller. Just like users will have to be connected online for Cloud powered games.

 

[Majanew]

hahaha


that's the one main reason i wouldn't suggest to anyone getting it as a media centre box,

Yep. I was going to keep my 360 to put in the bedroom when I get my two new systems, but I'm sure as hell not paying just to access Netflix in there. My standalone Blu-ray player is going in there with its free apps and the 360 is going to GameStop.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

MS should drop XBLG entirely, like Paul Thurrot suggested.

Do you realize how much money MS makes on Xbox Live? XBLG alone probably kept the Xbox division alive and MS around in the console race. That is one thing you can keep dreaming about.

I thought they have been saying this since the reveal. Pretty sure they said the Kinect could be turned off back in May.

This doesn't change anything, other than it doesn't need to be plugged in. However, like the online requirement I am sure games are going to be developed that force users to use the Kinect even if it is in addition to the controller. Just like users will have to be connected online for Cloud powered games.

First party games, like the next Halo game...MAYBE.
Third party games, like CoD, Battlefield, Assassins Creed etc...HELL NO.

There is no way a third party dev would build in required camera functionality for one game version over the other. Optional camera functionality sure, but not required. People would just buy the PS4 version for those (like myself) that want nothing to do with the garbage that is Kinect.

 

[p3tran]

I thought they have been saying this since the reveal. Pretty sure they said the Kinect could be turned off back in May.

This doesn't change anything, other than it doesn't need to be plugged in. However, like the online requirement I am sure games are going to be developed that force users to use the Kinect even if it is in addition to the controller. Just like users will have to be connected online for Cloud powered games.

system settings is not the same as being able to physically remove the thing if you want to.
so it does change stuff.

about kinect enhancement in games, of course you can navigate for example the menus in forza by joypad or by voice/gesture.
but if I choose in my system settings to not use the kinect,
I would be really surprised if forza would pause until I connected my kinect and enable it from system menu. (of course this is 100% dealbreaker)

now, if you are talking about kinect sports or some other game where kinect is the main point of the entire game, of course it is very reasonable that in order to play those games, you should enable kinect in the first place...

 

[Fox Mulder]

MS should drop XBLG entirely, like Paul Thurrot suggested.

Consumers have shown they are fine with paying for Gold. There's no way MS drops it, especially with Sony now having a sub for online play as well.

That ship sailed a decade ago.

 

[RetroStu]

So why is it bundled?

Thats the annoying part. It was obvious to me that the console would work without the Kinect, no way would they have a situation where the console wouldn't work if Kinect broke or something, thats just common sense.
No the problem i have is forcing us to buy it, they should hve 2 sku's, one with Kinect and a cheaper one without. I still live in hope thats what we will end up with by launch.

 

[BigDug13]

MS should drop XBLG entirely, like Paul Thurrot suggested.

Does he realize that Microsoft makes 1.8 BILLION dollars per year on Gold subs from 360?

 

[harlekin]

rm if too rude.