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SHOCK: Ryse has (optional) microtransactions.

Raonak

Banned
EEehhh... kinda dumb if it's a full retail title. but wouldn't be too offensive.... on it's own.

But the fact it's basically slots, ie: get totally random shit. Is really fucking shady.
It's like what GB was talking about, but amplified even more since it's not a F2P game,
at the back of your mind, you're wondering if the rates of getting good items are going to be skewed towards people spending actual monies.
I wouldn't count it out fucking with the rates.
 

drgambit

Banned
Edit: There seems to be some confusion regarding what this is.. so I made a Gif to illustrate it..

thatsitr8kaj.gif

That sums it up perfectly, thanks OP!
 

wildfire

Banned
It looks like Ryse multiplayer is only the co-op type so I retract my statement earlier that it is pay to win.

It still is a tarnished game because the co-op had to be compromised to ensure someone would be interested on spending more money but playing with friends can make this manageable.
 
Does this coupled with the fact Killzone: Shadow Fall has free DLC maps act as enough of a metaphor between the difference of Microsoft Studios and Sony Worldwide Studios?
 

patapuf

Member
People saying "you don't have to spend any money" are delusional. The way they design the game, the way they'll masterfully place those prompts of buying whatever they're offering ruins the game by default. I shouldn't be able to suffer through that bullshit when playing a game. It's like I'm ignoring those prompts but someone is breathing heavily behind my neck, constantly trying to make me buy it.

And that's applies for every terrible F2P game right now, like Dead Space 3, and recently, Plants vs. Zombies 2.

It really depends on how it's implemented. I can safely ignore it in BF3 or Mass Effect and i don't feel cheated because some people with too much money spend a hundred dollars so they don't have to play the game...

Progression - whether microstransaction are there or not, is sadly something really popular.
 

HPX

Member
microtransaction will be the future of gaming.
What about... CUBE!?
Cube!

Microtransactions are becoming too common, but I guess they do generate some money on it, although they won't get mine.

Also, love the animation :D

Edit: How do I add videos right into my posts?
 

Dr. Kaos

Banned
Nothing to do with Microsoft.

You, my phat sir, are technically correct. I should have blamed Crytek.

Microsoft still deserves some blame:

From the giantbomb wiki:

Microtransactions were made popular with the Xbox 360 on its Marketplace distribution platform. While designing the Xbox Live Marketplace, Microsoft envisioned players paying a quarter to download a new shirt for their character, to match them to their lifestyle.
 
Why do people say "pay to win"? These things are for unlocks only as far as i can tell, kinda like buying unlock items for other games that you can get by playing the game instead. Or paying to get double XP or something. These things serves as time savers only, i dont see the big deal.

It is a big deal. This means the grinding in the game was designed to make money, much like in a F2P game. That you can tediously spend the time grinding on a $60 game to avoid spending more money should be your first clue that this is a big deal.
 

Ogimachi

Member
I like ME3's model. People who buy these packs end up paying for new content development, which becomes available to everyone for free.
 

megalowho

Member
Had such a regrettable experience with Mass Effect 3's booster pack system that it soured me on the multiplayer completely, despite being a fun mode. Asking players to pull the slot machine if they want to try out a new class or race with no guarantees of eventual success, no thank you.

This seems a little different since I care much less about the fiction upfront to want specific stuff, but then again if it's armor based who knows how the game has been balanced in order to drive more players towards transactions. If the base gameplay is fun like ME3 and progression works fine without repeatedly pulling that lever it won't be a big deal, but whenever I see that model get name dropped I'm instantly wary.
 

mclem

Member
I haven't played a single full price title that monetises progression in the last 6 years.

I've played plenty of F2P that do, but - let's be fair - that is their sole revenue stream.

This *reads* like you're implying that "It is inherently wrong in gaming to have a business model built around multiple revenue streams". Are you? If not, what's the distinction that I'm missing?
 

KKRT00

Member
Thank you!

Maybe the unwise people who are defending this practice for being "optional" will think about it for a change.

But this video is terrible, because its whole premise is based on Dead Space 3 example and it doesnt even touch current games leveling system that force You to grind even without microtransactions systems.

Without microtransactions Mass Effect 3 MP would not grow as rapidly and content would be locked behind payed DLCs, that would only hurt community and would provide less revenue to Bioware.
 

BigDug13

Member
But this video is terrible, because its whole premise is based on Dead Space 3 example and it doesnt even touch current games leveling system that force You to grind even without microtransactions systems.

Without microtransactions Mass Effect 3 MP would not grow as rapidly and content would be locked behind payed DLCs, that would only hurt community and would provide less revenue to Bioware.

Why is "it provides more revenue for the developer" used as a defense for things like this? Why should I care that the game wasn't budgeted properly to be profitable at $60 per purchase? Why should I be subjected to nickel and diming after my initial $60 payout and be told I should be ok with it because of the poor developers. Tone down the budgets if $60 isn't enough for your game.
 

Rapstah

Member
The thread title is arguably more terrible without the part that was removed. "SHOCK" could also imply "lol Ryse just can't stop doing it wrong" while m0dus is actually doing the reverse of that in here under the assumption that every reasonable poster on the forum will agree with him, and microtransactions being "optional" could mean anything from them being mandatory in an optional mode ("you don't have to play multiplayer!!!") to them being cosmetic additions that you can also earn by playing the game.

Great job.
 
Jim Sterling calls this "Fee to pay."

While free-to-play games let you get into the core game for nothing and then attempt to coax you into purchasing additional content, games from the likes of Electronic Arts and Ubisoft instead make you pay for the privilege of getting into a position where you're tempted to pay more. Hence, you're charged a fee now to pay later.

The model likely isn't going to go away soon, since it appears to be working for now. Eventually, consumers will grow tired of it and the market will evaporate, as happens whenever publisher swarm in on an idea and exploit it to breaking point. Until then, fee-to-pay seems to be the perfect name for their enterprise. Use it in good health!

It sucks.
 
This *reads* like you're implying that "It is inherently wrong in gaming to have a business model built around multiple revenue streams". Are you? If not, what's the distinction that I'm missing?

I'm saying charging full price for a title that does not ostensibly offer an experience that cost more to produce than a myriad of other titles at that same price point, and then charging additional microtransactions on top of that where other titles do not is inherently greedy.

It's not something I will support, but it's not "wrong"; it's business. Greedy business, but business.
 

KKRT00

Member
Why is "it provides more revenue for the developer" used as a defense for things like this? Why should I care that the game wasn't budgeted properly to be profitable at $60 per purchase? Why should I be subjected to nickel and diming after my initial $60 payout and be told I should be ok with it because of the poor developers. Tone down the budgets if $60 isn't enough for your game.

Why have You ignored rest of the argument in my post?
Microtransaction model is more profitable than DLCs content model and it does not split community. Its win win for consumer and developer.
 

Rapstah

Member
Why have You ignored rest of the argument in my post?
Microtransaction model is more profitable than DLCs content model and it does not split community. Its win win for consumer and developer.

What games other than Mass Effect 3 have actually done the thing where they finance map packs with microtransaction money? Gears of War 3 had cosmetic microtransactions and you had to pay for map packs. Blacks Ops 2 supposedly does the same although I haven't seen how that game does anything. Do you have any reason to assume it's a trend rather than a fluke in ME3's case and anything this game will be doing on any other basis than that their microtransaction model seems identical to ME3's excluding that we don't know how the balance between getting in-game currency and paying for it works or how the chances are for getting anything worthwhile out of the packs are?
 

BigDug13

Member
Why have You ignored rest of the argument in my post?
Microtransaction model is more profitable than DLCs content model and it does not split community. Its win win for consumer and developer.

The split community only happens when things like additional levels are sold as DLC. Some games, like Driveclub, are offering tracks and cars as microtransactions which still does smaller splits to the community of haves and have nots on tracks.

I don't care about what is more profitable. I care about in-game progression being able to be bypassed with dollars. It's a disgusting practice in general and is not a win win for consumers just because you say so. And it gives incentive to the developers to slow down the natural progression in the game to further entice you to spend money to bypass the grind. It's a conflict of interest at the developer level and hinders actual game innovation in favor of sitting in a boardroom coming up instead with innovations in squeezing money out of gamers.

This exact implementation is not the good kind of microtransactions implementation, it's the bad kind.
 
I would never buy this game, so it doesn't really matter to me, but why do the packs have to be random? That makes it seem even worse to me.
 

wildfire

Banned
Thanks, i tried to boil it down to keep it brief and to the point.

You might get a splinter climbing on the cross there, my friend. Ryse is certainly not the first to do microtransactions, nor is it introducing any new aspect to this model that you clearly loath. Thus, by virtue of the fact that it is designed to, at best, relieve inpatient people of their money, one could argue that it doesn't quite earn the degree of ire lobbed at it, while other franchises clearly get a pass. :)

Let's just pretend for a moment Ryse multilayer was competitive and not coop.

You don't think the early reactions were justified considering how ambiguous multi player is as a term?
 

RetroStu

Banned
I would never buy this game, so it doesn't really matter to me, but why do the packs have to be random? That makes it seem even worse to me.

More and more games are going to have microtransactions though this gen. The only way to stop it is simply for people to not buy the microtransactions or to an extreme level, don't buy the game itself.
 
The problem is when these games are designed with these things in mind from day one, as this one obviously was judging by crytek's comments on f2p and ea's scumbaggery. I would bet anything that an inconvienience is applied to people who don't purchase these little prices of robbery over the course of the game.
This.

Seriously, this is Diablo 3 and "oh, the RMT Auction House is optional so stop pretending like the game is ruined because of the not-required, ultimately-a-benefit-for-gamers-because-it's-an-option ability to spend real money" all over again.

The fact is, the game design IS going to be impacted for everyone in order to push people towards spending money. It's as simple as tweaking a few drop rates, and there is absolutely no way that isn't being done here as well.

Why is that when a game introduces optional microtransactions gamers arent happy with grinding, but when there is no microtransactions everything is fine?
Level playing field.
 

KKRT00

Member
And it gives incentive to the developers to slow down the natural progression in the game to further entice you to spend money to bypass the grind. It's a conflict of interest at the developer level and hinders actual game innovation in favor of sitting in a boardroom coming up instead with innovations in squeezing money out of gamers.

This exact implementation is not the good kind of microtransactions implementation, it's the bad kind.
Thats totally theoretic that they'll slow down progression, because many games without microtransactions are aimed currently for unlimited progression.

Also most game do not allow progression to be skipped with dollars. I personally not even against it, why? Because there are always people who exploit, who play better or play two-three times more, so why shouldnt be there players who pay?
If You want to be so fair to other players, You should also be push that games should have play hours to do not get unfair advantage other working people etc.

As i said, everything You argue is completely theoretic [same goes for whole Fee to Pay video] and in practice [good practice] doesnt matter or even happen. You'll never be on top in progression and there will always be people that have advantage over You.

We should embrace good models to encourage developers to compete for consumers with consumer friendly practices and we already have that in F2P market. In last two years F2P policies changed so much, because of great and consumer-friendly competition that F2P games with bad model will always fail.
And having optional and balanced microtransaction will make more good in the long run for consumers than boycotting it and buying content DLCs that are total rip-offs in most cases.

---
Level playing field.
There was never 'same level playing field'. There are always players that exploit, play more or better, thats a fact.
Check Path of Exile's, which is of one the most consumer friendly games on the planet, races/leagues for example and try to compete with players like Kripparrian or Willy.
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
This.

Seriously, this is Diablo 3 and "oh, the RMT Auction House is optional so stop pretending like the game is ruined because of the not-required, ultimately-a-benefit-for-gamers-because-it's-an-option ability to spend real money" all over again.

The fact is, the game design IS going to be impacted for everyone in order to push people towards spending money. It's as simple as tweaking a few drop rates, and there is absolutely no way that isn't being done here as well.

Level playing field.

Mass effect 3 did it pretty damn well. Also let them make significant additions for free.
 

McDougles

Member
Announcer during the gamescom livestream just gave a warning before heading into Ryse gameplay. "It's not pretty."

After seeing them water animations, I lol'd.
 
Thats totally theoretic that they'll slow down progression, because many games without microtransactions are aimed currently for unlimited progression.
This game does have microtransactions. And like all games that have them, there is all the incentive in the world to alter progression so it favors using them.

Because there are always people who exploit, who play better or play two-three times more, so why shouldnt be there players who pay? If You want to be so fair to other players, You should also be push that games should have play hours to do not get unfair advantage other working people etc.
Exploiting game mechanics is IMHO irrelevant to the discussion. There are (presumably) systems in place to prevent exploits, and deal with users who abuse them. If there are not, the software is fundamentally flawed as a competitive multiplayer experience out of the gate, and any talk about fairness or options for progression becomes meaningless.

You say that we should be able to pay, so that those with more time or ability don't have an "unfair" advantage. What is unfair, exactly, about putting in time and progression that others do not? I could easily say it's unfair (or terrible design) to equate someone willing to put hundreds of hours into a title, with someone who just started but is willing to throw vast amounts of real money in instead. An unfairness still exists, but now it's not based on skill or time invested, but on disposable income. So the idea of introducing "fairness" by adding real money transactions is not a solution.

There was never 'same level playing field'. There are always players that exploit, play more or better, thats a fact.
Check Path of Exile's, which is of one the most consumer friendly games on the planet, races/leagues for example and try to compete with players like Kripparrian or Willy.
That is in fact the result of the level playing field. Someone willing and able to devote more time and energy to something should be rewarded with progression/loot/what-have-you, wouldn't you agree? Without real money transactions, everyone is on the same track, with the same obstacles, and the same commitment needed to overcome them--you can be assured anyone with an advantage earned it through actually playing the game.

Mass effect 3 did it pretty damn well. Also let them make significant additions for free.
Fair enough, they certainly can be done well--like all content delivery options, it's all in the execution.

I'll acknowledge microtransactions are not inherently bad, they just tempt publishers in bad directions (e.g. Dead Space 3).
 
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