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SHOCK: Ryse has (optional) microtransactions.

Mupod

Member
I was fine with it in ME3's multiplayer because it was co-op only and it got lots of free updates. You had to be crazy to pay for unlocks anyways because it wasn't hard to get things the usual way, people bought them like crazy apparently though.

From what I can tell Ryse multi is co-op as well, but until proven otherwise I'm not gonna expect incredible amounts of generosity out of Microsoft.
 

marrec

Banned
That Mod-apologist title change.

Remind me, when did CoD microtransact progression unlocks and add p2perk?

Whatever man, every game in the last 6 years does this.

I remember paying 5 dollars in Guacamelee to unlock all those booster packs that contained randomized loot. It was great.
 
Jesus,I swear people have it out for this game.

i know rite?

It's almost like making a bunch of shitty design decisions might worry people.

EDIT:
This thread is like a study of the mentality of certain posters. It's plainly obvious that some people read maybe the first three words of the title, skimmed th OP, saw it was about Ryse, merely assumed the worst, then immediately hit reply without a clue as to what the content of the post really was.

Like...like some kind of self-playing fanboy QTE.

It's become a meta-parody unto itself.

Thats an awfully dismissive reductionist argument to state when microtransacting a full retail product is - at best - symptomatic of increasingly predatory publisher practices.
 
Not really apologist if it's true. Lets be fair ;) it's patently obvious people are going to assume the worst no matter what the news is, so we will save them the trouble of straining their eyes or clicking a link.

Welcome to every Xb1 thread? Best to just skip to the third or fourth page to maybe see some real discussion and no more driveby/trolling posts.
 
It's pay to win, plain and simple. You played ME3 multiplayer, you should know that by now.

Sure, you don't "have" to spend money. But the people that do get a tangible advantage, and that's unfair in ANY competitive multiplayer game. Success in a game should be determined by your skill and commitment, not the size of your wallet.

Not at all. Are you saying my success in MP came from me buying packs? ive never bought one. Most of the top guys i play with every week have never bought a pack - we just keep playing and got better.

What you have said in bold is exactly why this system is fine. PLay more, get better, get better unlocks as a result. Its really simple.

I dont believe people who DO spend money in ME3 get a tangible advantage. The unlocks are randomised - and even if they do give you something which upgrades your Cerberus Harrier to a +3, you arent actually playing the game and developing skills when you make an in-game purchase.

its not pay to win at all. someone who uses real money buys the exact same packs we buy using in game credits - there is no guarantee he is going to get any of the URs or major unlocks faster.
 

marrec

Banned
Not really apologist if it's true. Lets be fair ;) it's patently obvious people are going to assume the worst no matter what the news is, so we will save them the trouble of straining their eyes or clicking a link.

Maybe the thread title will keep out the chaff and we can have an actual discussion about the possibly merits and disadvantages of microtransaction systems baked into full retail games.

...

:lol
 

x-Lundz-x

Member
Dat Title change lol...

Yes, but the point is that people who pay get access to them sooner and more often.

How are you going to compete without spending any money when some rich kid bought ten gold packs, got the best items, and stomps everyone?

It's unfair and unfun.

I think you are making a big deal out of nothing really. If the items can be obtained through normal play then nothing is pay to win about this same practice that has been part of our gaming lives for the past console gen.

You could say the same thing about someone with no life who spends 20 hours the first day of release and grinds for all the items and then stomps everyone...
 

Omikaru

Member
Colour me cynical.

Sure, you can unlock all this stuff without paying a dime, but once money mixes with game design in such a manner, I suspect that grinding out enough in-game cash to unlock the goods is designed in a way that will encourage you to pay.
 
This thread is like a study of the mentality of certain posters. It's plainly obvious that some people read maybe the first three words of the title, skimmed th OP, saw it was about Ryse, merely assumed the worst, then immediately hit reply without a clue as to what the content of the post really was.

Like...like some kind of self-playing fanboy QTE.

It's become a meta-parody unto itself
.

Fantastic and true and thanks for the title change. I dont know how many times i quoted that the transactions are not necessary and you dont have to pay a cent if you dont have to. The same people come running in, drop off their troll posts, get corrected then scurry out and off to the next MS thread.
 

Hanmik

Member
Here.. I made a little GIF to show what this means..

thatsitr8kaj.gif
 

marrec

Banned
Colour me cynical.

Sure, you can unlock all this stuff without paying a dime, but once money mixes with game design in such a manner, I suspect that grinding out enough in-game cash to unlock the goods is designed in a way that will encourage you to pay.

It'd be really easy to do, just have some system of diminishing returns for the gold earned. The first 5k gold is easy and quick, then it starts slowing down to where you're sitting at 12.5k gold and need to grind out another hour for that last 2.5k needed for a booster pack. Thats when the popup Ad comes in saying "Hey... you know you could just spend .99 cents and get that 2.5k gold RIGHT NOW!"
 

jet1911

Member
Yes, but the point is that people who pay get access to them sooner and more often.

How are you going to compete without spending any money when some rich kid bought ten gold packs, got the best items, and stomps everyone?

It's unfair and unfun.

I guess you missed the part where there's no competitive MP in Ryse right? "I don't know shit about this game but I'm still outraged!"
 

Omikaru

Member
It'd be really easy to do, just have some system of diminishing returns for the gold earned. The first 5k gold is easy and quick, then it starts slowing down to where you're sitting at 12.5k gold and need to grind out another hour for that last 2.5k needed for a booster pack. Thats when the popup Ad comes in saying "Hey... you know you could just spend .99 cents and get that 2.5k gold RIGHT NOW!"

Yup. Absolutely awful.

I totally get the outrage on this. I think some of it isn't articulated as well as it could be, but people know bullshit when they smell it.
 

marrec

Banned
Regardless, it's optional for those who are less wise with their cash. It's not like the game is making sit through a 'cool down' period like real racing 3, or is keeping vital items behind a pay wall, however.

I wonder, however, if in between matches there will be a big splash screen that advertises all the real money you can spend on in game Gold.
 
Thus, by virtue of the fact that it is designed to, at best, relieve inpatient people of their money, one could argue that it doesn't quite earn the degree of ire lobbed at it, while other franchises clearly get a pass. :)

AFAIK the last title that tried this was Dead Space 3, which was roundly decried for making such a shitty decision. Are you calling out specific titles for getting a pass through poster hypocrisy here?

EDIT:
Regardless, it's optional for those who are less wise with their cash. It's not like the game is making sit through a 'cool down' period like real racing 3, or is keeping vital items behind a pay wall, however.

just to be clear, I have zero problems with F2P and associated monetisation models.

I have huge problems with full retail purchases using those exact same monetisation models to double-dip consumers, and I think it is disingenuous to directly compare a F2P game that has progression unlocks with a full retail product offering the same thing.

If Ryze co-op edition was a standalone freeby, sure, that's only fair.

But it isn't, is it?
 

Shinjica

Member
Colour me cynical.

Sure, you can unlock all this stuff without paying a dime, but once money mixes with game design in such a manner, I suspect that grinding out enough in-game cash to unlock the goods is designed in a way that will encourage you to pay.

We have a winner here
 
i know rite?

It's almost like making a bunch of shitty design decisions might worry people.

But doesn't it sound fair to say that much of this is being blown out of proportion? The vast majority of criticism for this game is the QTEs, something that's fairly common and that other games have gotten away with without even close to this level of criticism.

When the rather predictable announcement of micro-transactions causes people to say this game exemplifies "everything wrong with gaming" it seems clear that a pretty big amount of people have already concluded this can't be a good game.

When people discuss games they are hyped for and this comes up it's become quite common to dismiss the game entirely with "but QTEs". Why can't we look past the QTEs and see if there's actually a good game there? There certainly could be but many have already made up their minds.
 

marrec

Banned
Since when do other franchises get a pass for bullshit micro-transaction pandering? It's a disgusting practice for $60 games.

I think he may be referencing FIFA and ME 3 on this. ME 3's backlash was particularly muted in comparison to the backlash on the ending and I've never heard anyone complain about the money you can spend in FIFA. That said, I don't play FIFA, or know people who play FIFA.
 
I reread my previous posts and I find I may come of as some sort of fanboy or whatever. So I'm going to try to formulate my opinion on this matter as cleanly as possible. First of all, Rise is not the only game I take issue to. It's simply a thread in which this discussion is currently ongoing and as such I felt like chiming in with my honest opinion.

And I feel that all the games in the last 6 years that have perpetrated this sort of optional microtransaction nonsense have bothered me greatly. Not because I can't afford it, not because I think they're creating an imbalance, nor is it because I'm opposed to spending time playing videogames. It's because in my honest opinion a game that has microtransactions will assign real world value to virtual items - which will always result in an economy in which the value of gameplay has to be degraded in order for the value of said item to be appropriate.

The example in the O.P is a textbook case, they will artificially extend the time required for a player to achieve something in an effort to make profit. So an unlock that used to be 10000xp is now going to be 12500xp so the perceived value of the microtransaction item will increase.

Honestly, they don't want you to play to unlock items, they want you to pay and this will influence virtually every game design decision to the point where it feels like these games hold my time and enjoyment for ransom. Again my sentiment extends past Rise and applies to every game with superflous microtransactions released in the last 6 years. And I honestly feel like everybody is doing it is not an excuse, nor a justification for this sort of applied greed.
 
But doesn't it sound fair to say that much of this is being blown out of proportion? The vast majority of criticism for this game is the QTEs, something that's fairly common and that other games have gotten away with without even close to this level of criticism.

When the rather predictable announcement of micro-transactions causes people to say this game exemplifies "everything wrong with gaming" it seems clear that a pretty big amount of people have already concluded this can't be a good game.

When people discuss games they are hyped for and this comes up it's become quite common to dismiss the game entirely with "but QTEs". Why can't we look past the QTEs and see if there's actually a good game there? There certainly could be but many have already made up their minds.

Valid points, but this isn't a topic about QTEs, so pretty much irrelevant here.

EDIT:
I thought Dead Space 3 was roundly decried because it wasn't really dead space? Regardless, iirc, most of the ire died down when it was clear these packs were optional, though the core game itself missed several marks.

The ire died down because nobody bought it as a result - there were plenty of youtube videos at release along the lines of "Heres where to grind to avoid the shitty microtransactions".

Like when if Ryze bombs, some people will attribute it to "lol press A to win", but microtransacting a full retail product will be playing its part too.
 

marrec

Banned
But doesn't it sound fair to say that much of this is being blown out of proportion? The vast majority of criticism for this game is the QTEs, something that's fairly common and that other games have gotten away with without even close to this level of criticism.

When the rather predictable announcement of micro-transactions causes people to say this game exemplifies "everything wrong with gaming" it seems clear that a pretty big amount of people have already concluded this can't be a good game.

When people discuss games they are hyped for and this comes up it's become quite common to dismiss the game entirely with "but QTEs". Why can't we look past the QTEs and see if there's actually a good game there? There certainly could be but many have already made up their minds.

I think you're misunderstanding the ire being shown here. Sure, a lot of people have dismissed Ryse because of the original trailer and it being an XBONE exclusive. Those people are only having their prejudices reinforced by this news, but there are others that clearly have a problem not with Ryse but with the idea of Microtransactions in $60 dollar games. Ryse could be a spiffy game that's fun to play with chums, but putting in these type of systems speaks to a quality of design and business that immediately puts a lot of people off.
 
Colour me cynical.

Sure, you can unlock all this stuff without paying a dime, but once money mixes with game design in such a manner, I suspect that grinding out enough in-game cash to unlock the goods is designed in a way that will encourage you to pay.

This is the only reason I hate this style of microtransactions. But, let's be honest with each other here, games have had terrible grinds in them since the beginning. Only now we might apply a reason that this is so outside of "to make the game longer".

If I could buy labels and a cursor to move and waypoints for the map in SMT IV, I'd pay the price of the game for it.

Personally, I think the grind has and will always be there, but now since there is a "pay" option, people are going to attribute the grind to being a devilish exercise in forcing the consumer to pay, which might be true for some ... but not remotely true for all.
 

RetroStu

Banned
I remember one of the Tiger Woods games where it was almost impossible to max out your character without microtransacrtions, you probably could do it but it would of taken you weeks if not months to do it, literaly.

I don't actually have a problem with microtransactions if it was for visual stuff like a new costume etc but when it effects actual gameplay then its simply wrong, its completely out of order to be honest and we shouldn't support it.
 
IMO the Fe2P system in Ryse will be bad because the gold economy will most likely be balanced around it, meaning deliberate slow gold farming that encourage you to spend that extra money in order to buy the armor you are looking for. I have absolutely no proof whatsoever of what I am about to say and it may be because I am now very cynical regarding this industry, but imagine them building the formula for the gold drop rate for the game then explicitly set the value to 60% instead of 100% just to slightly annoy you in your tedious hours of farming. As an example, crafting your weapons in Dead Space 3 felt more of a chore than it should have been and I bet it is solely because of the Fe2P system.
 
"The way that you get armour is very similar to how you get it in like Mass Effect or FIFA."

I for one look forward to my players having armour in FIFA.
 

monome

Member
Ryse...why could not you be Infinity Blade?

an Infinity Blade action game on X1 would have melted hearts/brains even with microtransactions.
 

Courage

Member
People saying "you don't have to spend any money" are delusional. The way they design the game, the way they'll masterfully place those prompts of buying whatever they're offering ruins the game by default. I shouldn't be able to suffer through that bullshit when playing a game. It's like I'm ignoring those prompts but someone is breathing heavily behind my neck, constantly trying to make me buy it.

And that's applies for every terrible F2P game right now, like Dead Space 3, and recently, Plants vs. Zombies 2.
 

rrs

Member
I just hope the game doesn't make grinding a chore with this in. Anyways, I knew there was DLC ever since the first footage for it, look at the tablet during the E3 conference
 

oVerde

Banned
Now I'm sad, this is something bad news, being optional dlc skin or not, being called microtransactions may hide some shit monetization idea into it.
 
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