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[sam27368]

Just posted this in the DICE 720 thread but here's a positive article on BF4 on PS4 http://www.lazygamer.net/24/gamescom-2013-hands-on-with-battlefield-4-on-playstation-4

Makes a change from this IGN crap as of late

 

[Erasus]

To be honest I'm bummed they're not producing units right now. It's gonna take a lot to fill those 1 million pre-orders.

What?

I can tell you they have started.

Read the OP as to why they are not using retail units in shows. The games are not signed for the OS yet so they need a devklit, X1 does that same.

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

Ok, so at least some people are being serious when they say this. I don't visit IGN so I have no idea how they operate.



Thanks benny!

I'll say i do favor Sony to any other company I always have done and probably always will but i'm a gamer and usually buy the main consoles anyway (currently have all the major consoles PS3,360,wii U,3DS,Vita and a gaming PC) but it is very very obvious how much IGN are with MS they're on the dashboard on the xbox and everything

 

[LTWood12]

I love that a single instance of someone having a functional PS4 in the wild would allay every fear the author of the tweet might have about the hardware.

I know. If only this had happened right?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

 

[ElTorro]

I'll post it again because I love this.
Here is the guy from the OP. IGN's Scott Lowe, getting this exact thing explained to him by Mark Cerny himself.

 

[Primethius]

Shouldn't Arthur backing someone up automatically discredit the source?

 

[beast786]

This is a way to dismiss someone without actually engaging with them.

Lazy

Engage with what?

Let me quote his post

I'm not saying their hasn't been prior concerns, far from it.

You know what's going to happen though if Microsoft release ahead of Sony?

Reaction:

- Rushed to market
- Lower performance than stated
- Only 50 units available each country

And if they release after?

Reaction:

- Production issues confirmed

Does this sound like a conversation ? Putting all of GAF in a hive mind mentality and add a persecution complex as if XB1 is attack not because of its policies or hardware but some type of hate toward MS.

If anything. His response of lazy as hell in total Gaf generalization.

 

[admartian]

I made 10 more PS4 pre orders in light of this "news".

In order to just CANCEL them.


So PRE-ORDER CANCELLED! x10




Seriously though, I don't understand the benefit of both companies having the final hw (or close to) it running in these shows. Seems like Lowe just wants to spread a bit of FUD.

 

[Amir0x]

Heh, right @ the 0:29 mark - "Scott Lowe and I...[snip stuttering]...we got some time with it, some hands-on time with it."

seriously this just continues to get more and more amazing.

Another great example of gaming journalism. I wonder if I could make baseless arguments and absurd claims if I held a job title like that.

They like to share their "knowledge" and all it does is make me sad that people like him are listened to by some gamers.

I'm sure we'll have to add Scott to the people who moan about NeoGAF like Arthur Gies whilst being wrong about everything all the time. It's just a shame. Just a simple call. Hell, make an anonymous post on NeoGAF and ask people about it, you'd probably get a more accurate answer lol

 

[beast786]

I love that a single instance of someone having a functional PS4 in the wild would allay every fear the author of the tweet might have about the hardware.

.

just so that you know, test kits (not DevKits) are in the PS4 shell... and they've been in the office for a while

 

[benny_a]

Seriously though, I don't understand the benefit of both companies having the final hw (or close to) it running in these shows. Seems like Lowe just wants to spread a bit of FUD.

You have to empathize with Scott. What would you do in his situation?
You don't know if it's worthy of concern that PS4 devkits are used at E3 and Gamescom.

It's not like as the IGN tech editor you can send a mail to Digital Foundry and ask them:
"Hey guys, I'm concerned about the lack of retail units used at E3 and GamesCom. Should I be or is it normal that they use devkits at these trade-shows?
I've only been doing this tech editor thingie since 2011.
<3 Scott"

 

[SniperHunter]

Heh, right @ the 0:29 mark - "Scott Lowe and I...[snip stuttering]...we got some time with it, some hands-on time with it."

wow

 

[Crimson_Gold]

Heh, right @ the 0:29 mark - "Scott Lowe and I...[snip stuttering]...we got some time with it, some hands-on time with it."

This is mind blowing. How could he make those type of statements after you've used it yourself? Is he calling Sony liars? Seriously. I want to know.

 

[NoirVisage]

Shouldn't Arthur backing someone up automatically discredit the source?

THIS.
Scott should have knew something was amiss when Aurthur chimed in..


And I will laugh for 10 minutes straight if an IGN staffer did actually confirm that IGN is actively working Damage control for MS, i thought they were doing it for free of their own volition..but if they were approached..that would just be a new low.

 

[jaypah]

I'll say i do favor Sony to any other company I always have done and probably always will but i'm a gamer and usually buy the main consoles anyway (currently have all the major consoles PS3,360,wii U,3DS,Vita and a gaming PC) but it is very very obvious how much IGN are with MS they're on the dashboard on the xbox and everything

I wasn't accusing you of anything, like what you like. I was genuinely curious as to why people were saying MS paid IGN. Since I haven't gone to IGN (outside of a video link here and there) since about 2007 I really didn't know. My exposure to them these days is strictly through GAF.

 

[Mrcapcom]

dunno if this was posted but around the 0:34 mark it shows a ps4 connected and playing a game and I believe this is the EU Playstation youtube account just throwing this in the mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-YT0IlIGBI&feature=share&list=UUg_JwOXFtu3iEtbr4ttXm9g

Ignore if already posted

 

[Kaako]

Read the OP, laughed and thought what in the actual fuck am I reading. Executive editor huh...lol.
Also love some of the comments in this thread, especially from the usual posters whom are ever so quick to say b-b-but if this was MS you guys would be all over it and tear them to shreads and waa-waa-waa. I love this place.

 

[benny_a]

And I will laugh for 10 minutes straight if an IGN staffer did actually confirm that IGN is actively working Damage control for MS, i thought they were doing it for free of their own volition..but if they were approached..that would just be a new low.

An IGN staffer would probably not do that. And my post wasn't meant to say that IGN is actively working as damage control.

All I said was that Microsoft approached IGN because Microsoft felt they weren't very popular with the hardcore gaming crowd. Then they did an interview and did the hilarious "AMAs" where "Ask Me Anything" meant "Ask Me PR-filtered stuff that IGN editorial first saw five minutes before posted them for you."

This is what Ryan from IGN said about the XboxOneDev AMA on reddit.

I would bet the farm that this was done with the full cooperation of the MS PR department. They're on a mission now to start talking to the hardcore gamers that they've been losing the loyalty of. Notice how we (IGN) got that Marc Whitten interview the other day? They came to us with that, not the other way around.

The next few months should be very interesting.

Everything after that is extrapolation. Some of it reasonable, some of it a bit far-fetched.

 

[Saiyan-Rox]

I wasn't accusing you of anything, like what you like. I was genuinely curious as to why people were saying MS paid IGN. Since I haven't gone to IGN (outside of a video link here and there) since about 2007 I really didn't know. My exposure to them these days is strictly through GAF.

Oh no don't get me wrong pal i just wanted to state that just in case - know what the internet can be like when it comes to accusing people of being fanboys etc. I don't blame you I never go on there either anymore they're a joke of a website that show their dislike of anything MS.

 

[Robbler]

dunno if this was posted but around the 0:34 mark it shows a ps4 connected and playing a game and I believe this is the EU Playstation youtube account just throwing this in the mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-YT0IlIGBI&feature=share&list=UUg_JwOXFtu3iEtbr4ttXm9g

Ignore if already posted

I'm not trying to defend IGN here (especially after that paid "AMA" they did for MS), but a lot of times companies will have a shell of the system with the controller passing through it to a devkit underneath. Not saying that's what is happening there, but it's a possibility.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

I'm not trying to defend IGN here (especially after that paid "AMA" they did for MS), but a lot of times companies will have a shell of the system with the controller passing through it to a devkit underneath. Not saying that's what is happening there, but it's a possibility.

If Demonite says that they have test units running in the shell, then they're running in the shell

 

[Chaplain]

All I said was that Microsoft approached IGN because Microsoft felt they weren't very popular with the hardcore gaming crowd.

I would assume that there is some type of gain (like exclusives or free stuff) that IGN would receive for allowing MS to use their site as a preaching outlet for their upcoming "unpopular" product.

 

[Jack Torrance]

I wasn't accusing you of anything, like what you like. I was genuinely curious as to why people were saying MS paid IGN. Since I haven't gone to IGN (outside of a video link here and there) since about 2007 I really didn't know. My exposure to them these days is strictly through GAF.

IGN is definitely pro-MS. Their sister site is "Team Xbox". They have done about three stories this week alone on "Titanfall", all basically the same and how great it is. And about a dozen (or more?) pro-Xbone stories that litter the main page, all fanboy gaspingly pro. Opinion pieces and mentions of the PS4 the last month or so have been around 90% click-baitingly negative.

I'm not certain they are being "paid" by MS, but the school kids that edit and write for IGN are usually easily won over by swag and free stuff that MS has been known to throw around more so than their competitors (and this situation is beginning to feel like a replay of the HD-DVD / Blu-ray fiasco of about six years ago, in the way that MS handles things in the media)... to think that IGN has any type of objectivity is laughable.

 

[Famassu]

Microsoft could have made a much smaller console. They chose the large size and look because they wanted it to belong in consumer's media center, less fan noise, and better airflow. Think of your A/V receiver. It has all the extra room when you look through the vents. That allows for passive cooling. Obviously, the next gen consoles will generate much more heat, but you get the point.

Not sure how quiet the ps4 will be since it is so small. The fan will probably spin at very high rpm and generate noticeable noise under load. Do I think the cooling system will work? Yes. Look at the ITX form factor. It can fit a normal size GPU and still have adequate cooling. The apu used by both companies have much lower TDP than chips used in standard desktops and that is why the ps4 can be so small.

You don't know fuck all of what you are talking about, do you? PS4 needs less power and thus is generating LESS heat than PS3 because, for one, it doesn't have separate, big CPU & GPU chips.

 

[calder]

You'll go home, turn it on at it'll be a PS Vita instead of a PS4

You know those poor suckers who buy an external HDD used and it sucks and when they crack the case open it's just a USB thumbdrive taped into an empty shell? Pretty much that. When we finally start playing Shadow Fall and think it looks surprisingly bad at 1080P someone will open the PS4 and it will be a Vita and some i/o cabling. :\

 

[benny_a]

dunno if this was posted but around the 0:34 mark it shows a ps4 connected and playing a game and I believe this is the EU Playstation youtube account just throwing this in the mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-YT0IlIGBI&feature=share&list=UUg_JwOXFtu3iEtbr4ttXm9g

Ignore if already posted

That video is great. Thanks!

War Thunder:

Knack:

I think now it's a pretty ballsy claim. All Sony booth. All three images would ostensibly contradict what Scott Lowe is saying.

Would love a follow-up where he calls Sony out on their alleged masquerade.

 

[Tamanon]

I would assume that there is some type of gain (like exclusives or free stuff) that IGN would receive for allowing MS to use their site as a preaching outlet for their upcoming "unpopular" product.

Traffic?

 

[VibratingDonkey]

Shouldn't Arthur backing someone up automatically discredit the source?

This was my immediate spontaneous reaction upon seeing the Twitter conversation.
Whenever Gies tweets there's usually something foul about.

 

[Robbler]

Traffic?

Exactly. They could give IGN some kind of weighted placement for their stuff on the dashboard.

 

[Gestault]

I know. If only this had happened right?

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-hands-on-with-playstation-4

That's just it, I get the idea of why the tweet would make sense if it really did look like there weren't systems in the final form factor, but from what we can tell, tons of people have these units out there already. We have videos and statements for both, and it's not like he somehow didn't have access to the same info. Heck, right in his (the IGN guy) interview with Cerny, he said he'd had time with the console.

 

[Latvian Hitman]

I'm definitely concerned about the heat and noise output of the PS4. We have solid news that the X1 is doing extremely well in those departments, but we haven't heard anything about how Sony's manufacturing process has been going or what their goals/expectations are for those attributes.

There's no evidence pointing one way or the other, but I find it odd that Microsoft is under so much scrutiny when the ps4's form factor is more concerning and MS has been more forthcoming on the subject.

I wouldn't be concerned. Sony's been making cutting-edge consumer electronics hardware for decades. They're pretty good at what they do.

Think of it like this:
- the PS4 enclosure is roughly the same size as the PS3 slim yet...
- it has only one smaller chip to cool instead of two larger ones
- consumes half as much power as the PS3

There's really no reason not to expect the PS4 to operate quietly. As far as "heat output", as you put it: that's a good thing. You want your console/PC to output a lot of heat. That means the cooling solution being utilized by the system is doing its job- which is to remove heat from the chip(s) and the case/enclosure.

 

[inherendo]

You don't know fuck all of what you are talking about, do you? PS4 needs less power and thus is generating LESS heat than PS3 because, for one, it doesn't have separate, big CPU & GPU chips.

LOL, overreaction? I stated they were apus, which means they are on same die. Not sure about the official TDP for the ps4 vs the ps3. Smaller form factor means more air needs to to be pushed through generally. This means, depending on the cooling solution, the fan will spin faster, making it more audible.

You are an idiot that saw me mention the xbox 1 where I didn't condemn it. I couldn't care less about either consoles form factor. I find the ps3 slim quite ugly but I still use it. I was just stating that the ps4 is some good engineering, but it's not impossible. I mentioned the itx form factor to support my point.

Kindly shut the fuck up.

 

[Chaplain]

Traffic?

Lets say this is the case. Seems contrary to the whole purpose of gaming sites. They are there to speak the truth by telling their consumers what is good and bad about games/hardware. This line is erased when they allow a company to come in, put the sites name on their PR, and then shout to the masses that IGN is fully behind their product.

 

[Tamanon]

Lets say this is the case. Seems contrary to the whole purpose of gaming sites. They are there to speak the truth by telling their consumers what is good and bad about games/hardware. This line is erased when they allow a company to come in, put the sites name on their PR, and then shout to the masses that IGN is fully behind their product.

I believe you are operating under a misconception about the purpose of gaming sites like IGN.

While "speaking the truth" can have a useful byproduct in continued support, it's not the purpose. The purpose is to make that money, money, money.

 

[beast786]

LOL, overreaction? I stated they were apus, which means they are on same die. Not sure about the official TDP for the ps4 vs the ps3. Smaller form factor means more air needs to to be pushed through generally. This means, depending on the cooling solution, the fan will spin faster, making it more audible.

You are an idiot that saw me mention the xbox 1 where I didn't condemn it. I couldn't care less about either consoles form factor. I find the ps3 slim quite ugly but I still use it. I was just stating that the ps4 is some good engineering, but it's not impossible. I mentioned the itx form factor to support my point.

Kindly shut the fuck up.

This is not how you last in Gaf.

 

[George Claw M.D.]

I would assume that there is some type of gain (like exclusives or free stuff) that IGN would receive for allowing MS to use their site as a preaching outlet for their upcoming "unpopular" product.

The perk is exclusive access to Microsoft. That fake AMA drew a ton of traffic to the site. That's IGN's perk. It's a mutual benefit to both sides, regardless of who approached who. Not saying MS couldn't have thrown in additional swag, but any gaming news outlet would've jumped at the chance for that type of scoop.

 

[Acquiescence]

LOL, overreaction? I stated they were apus, which means they are on same die. Not sure about the official TDP for the ps4 vs the ps3. Smaller form factor means more air needs to to be pushed through generally. This means, depending on the cooling solution, the fan will spin faster, making it more audible.

You are an idiot that saw me mention the xbox 1 where I didn't condemn it. I couldn't care less about either consoles form factor. I find the ps3 slim quite ugly but I still use it. I was just stating that the ps4 is some good engineering, but it's not impossible. I mentioned the itx form factor to support my point.

Kindly shut the fuck up.

Calling someone an idiot and telling them to shut the fuck up is going to get you banned quicker than shit out of a goose.

 

[Famassu]

LOL, overreaction? I stated they were apus, which means they are on same die. Not sure about the official TDP for the ps4 vs the ps3. Smaller form factor means more air needs to to be pushed through generally. This means, depending on the cooling solution, the fan will spin faster, making it more audible.

You are an idiot that saw me mention the xbox 1 where I didn't condemn it. I couldn't care less about either consoles form factor. I find the ps3 slim quite ugly but I still use it. I was just stating that the ps4 is some good engineering, but it's not impossible. I mentioned the itx form factor to support my point.

Kindly shut the fuck up.

Actually, I wrongly thought you were comparing next-gen consoles' heat generating to PS360, but now that I read your post again I noticed you were comparing next-gen consoles to A/V receivers. Sorry for the misinterpretation.

And lol, get off your percecuted fanboy horse. Where in hell do I even MENTION Xbone in my post? NOWHERE, that's where. So stop your silly butthurt reactions. I wasn't criticizing your beloved Xbone, I originally thought you wrote something completely wrong but it seems I just misread your original post. My post applies just as much to Xbone as it does to PS4.

 

[Mobius1]

Lets say this is the case. Seems contrary to the whole purpose of gaming sites. They are there to speak the truth by telling their consumers what is good and bad about games/hardware. This line is erased when they allow a company to come in, put the sites name on their PR, and then shout to the masses that IGN is fully behind their product.

No, that's exactly the purpose of a gaming site: generate traffic in order to sell space to advertisers. Sometimes you sacrifice 'truth' in order to keep a good relationship with a company.

The editor's job isn't to investigate, it's to seek out and maintain good relationships with important companies so that his website can get access to products and interviews. The actual writing and 'journalism' is an afterthought. The people in charge of these websites just want to know how many people are gonna click on an article so they can sell advertising packages to movie studios, deodorant companies, food companies, whoever wants to target their 15-30 male demographic. Click-through, road-blocks, unique views, that's the business.

 

[sleeping_dragon]

How does this guy became an editor? Because his communications skills sucks!

 

[element]

The whole thing is a ridiculous statement. Final retail/debug kits for 360 and PS3 were made available weeks before launch.

Depending on build process and engine, some developers (especially multiplatform developers) can run their PC build with platform specific icons by a simple command flag. This is nothing new.

Go back to Xbox first E3 the "dev kits" were just PC towers with an Xbox logo on them. 360 were just MacPros in a box. This is a common practice because things are done until the VERY last minute.

 

[Risk Breaker]

Oh God this thread...

Dev kit &#8800; Console ( &#8800; Test kit)

It's obvious if devs are working around Dev kits because they are available earlier, they will use dev kits to show their games.

That said, the differences are simply that, differences, one does not have more power than the other.

Anyone with any experience in the use of this kind of hardware should know this.

 

[Wynnebeck]

LOL, overreaction? I stated they were apus, which means they are on same die. Not sure about the official TDP for the ps4 vs the ps3. Smaller form factor means more air needs to to be pushed through generally. This means, depending on the cooling solution, the fan will spin faster, making it more audible.

You are an idiot that saw me mention the xbox 1 where I didn't condemn it. I couldn't care less about either consoles form factor. I find the ps3 slim quite ugly but I still use it. I was just stating that the ps4 is some good engineering, but it's not impossible. I mentioned the itx form factor to support my point.

Kindly shut the fuck up.

You'll last long here.

 

[Chaplain]

I believe you are operating under a misconception about the purpose of gaming sites like IGN.

While "speaking the truth" can have a useful byproduct in continued support, it's not the purpose. The purpose is to make that money, money, money.

I agree that they are a business and about making money. We agree on this.

The perk is exclusive access to Microsoft. That fake AMA drew a ton of traffic to the site. That's IGN's perk. It's a mutual benefit to both sides, regardless of who approached who. Not saying MS couldn't have thrown in additional swag, but any gaming news outlet would've jumped at the chance for that type of scoop.

Well then gaming journalism is not what sites like IGN should be called.

No, that's exactly the purpose of a gaming site: generate traffic in order to sell space to advertisers. Sometimes you sacrifice 'truth' in order to keep a good relationship with a company.

The editor's job isn't to investigate, it's to seek out and maintain good relationships with important companies so that his website can get access to products and interviews.

Two things.

1. If they are sacrificing "'truth' in order to keep a good relationship with a company" then they should just close their site (in my view).

2. Your second point seems backwards (even though I know its not). Editor's should be there as the final line to not let misinformation and bribes influence their articles and site.

 

[hipbabboom]

There are a lot of personal attacks going on over this. I’m struggling to understand what’s actually going bad here. If it’s simply just that the Scott Lowe was pointing out that the games shown so far haven’t been shown on final silicon then it’s a valid thing to point out right? Why would we want to crucify him for that? Also the idea that somehow that the final PS4 will not perform as demoed is a position I doubt Sony (or any hardware manufacturer) will unknowingly maneuver itself into. Why the negative reactions?

 

[George Claw M.D.]

Well then gaming journalism is not what sites like IGN should be called.

An argument that has been made many a time on GAF.

2. Your second point seems backwards (even though I know its not). Editor's should be there as the final line to not let misinformation and bribes influence their articles and site.

Ironically, someone like Arthur Gies is a lead editor for Polygon.

Now are you seeing why there's been so much hubbub over "gaming journalism" on GAF?

 

[Mobius1]

I
Two things.

1. If they are sacrificing "'truth' in order to keep a good relationship with a company" then they should just close their site (in my view).

2. Your second point seems backwards (even though I know its not). Editor's should be there as the final line to not let misinformation and bribes influence their articles and site.

I agree, it should work differently. They are not serving their readers. But the readers don't seem to care, they get millions of hits every day.

 

[benny_a]

There are a lot of personal attacks going on over this. I&#8217;m struggling to understand what&#8217;s actually going bad here. If it&#8217;s simply just that the Scott Lowe was pointing out that the games shown so far haven&#8217;t been shown on final silicon then it&#8217;s a valid thing to point out right?

If you click on the link to twitter, it shows that he was contrasting it with the Xbox One where he claimed it was running on "Xbox One units"

He changed his argument from "PCs" to "PS4 devkits" 11 hours later, but the initial comparison was between Sony using PCs to demo their games at their own booth and Microsoft using "Xbox One units."

What's the distinction between Xbox One units and PS4 devkits that caused him to write any of his posts?

Given that there is no way to visually differentiate a Xbox One devkit and a Xbox One consumer model. Especially not at trade-shows where physical access is restricted.

To me it's the same then. If you're charitable you can say it's because he is concerned about the thermal profile of the PS4.
But he already asked this question to lead architect Mark Cerny and got an answer in an interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsl6zmPMje4&t=6m45s

 

[Chaplain]

An argument that has been made many a time on GAF.

Ironically, someone like Arthur Gies is a lead editor for Polygon.

Now are you seeing why there's been so much hubbub over "gaming journalism" on GAF?

Excellent points, George. I guess this is why GAF is so disliked by so many sites.

I agree, it should work differently. They are not serving their readers. But the readers don't seem to care, they get millions of hits every day.

No wonder many on GAF stay away from these sites.

 

[BRocknRolla]

Lets say this is the case. Seems contrary to the whole purpose of gaming sites. They are there to speak the truth by telling their consumers what is good and bad about games/hardware. This line is erased when they allow a company to come in, put the sites name on their PR, and then shout to the masses that IGN is fully behind their product.

Are you serious? I think you're being a bit naive if you are. The "whole purpose" of a gaming site like IGN is to drive traffic for their ads, or other forms of income, so they can make money and stay in business. Their livelihoods are also directly tied to having relationships with the MS's and Sony's of the world so they can quickly and cheaply produce their content. The line between press and PR isn't just blurred in this industry; it's barely there at all. No journalist worth anything would agree to do a filtered and controlled "Xbox One AMA" like IGN did if they were concerned about maintaining distance and credibility. IGN is an "entertainment" site, and nothing more. If anyone enjoys their videos and content, that's fine (I myself listen to Beyond and only recently stopped listening to Unlocked due to the incompetence of the hosting), but don't be fooled; IGN is not the place to go to find honest, consumer focused reporting. If anything, they are in the service of the games industry.

Most consumers of video game press don't think about these things though, and that's why sites like IGN keep trucking along. There's no credibility check, because by and large, people don't care. They just want to get excited about games and have people reinforce their opinions about their purchases. IGN's only concern is to drive revenue and get clicks.