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[Albert Penello]

First off, fair play to you for coming on here and fighting your corner ... Secondly, are you friends with Dennis Dyack by any chance?

LOL. I actually joked the other day that I didn't want to get "Dyack'd" off the boards.

I think reasonable people understand that it's impossible for me personally to know every detail about everything with the platform. I think I got my chops busted the other day for not knowing who People Can Fly was. I haven't been paying a ton of attention to 360 over the last year or so because I've been focusing on Xbox One.

It's very frequent I have to ask questions of others and bring the answers back. I did the same thing here - went to an expert, got an answer, and brought it back.

People don't like the answer, cool, and I have absolutely no problem with questioning my specific answers or calling them into debate. That's part of the deal on here.

It's somewhat bothersome when people think you're out to just lie or fud or make it a personal thing. But again, there is no way I'd tackle this question unless I was confident from the people on the team that I'm right. Would have been a lot easier to dodge the question. And I have thick skin (literally, since I'm a big guy), so I can handle it.

 

[benny_a]

Oh trust me, there can be big differences. Amount of calcium, acid, alkali etc can all effect taste. For example, I dislike Nestle, Dasani and Volvic mineral water, and really like Buxtons, Evian and Highland Spring.

Amount of calcium, acid & alkali are just on paper specs.

We need to wait until the Aquafina One launch date to see the difference between it and Volvic 4.

 

[CLEEK]

I dont see why it would get bigger and bigger. Developers will get better at both systems not just the PS4.

It will take a few years before devs get close to maxing out the respective consoles. The max of the PS4 is (on paper) far higher then the max of the One. Hence the gulf growing as they get closer to maxing out the hardware.

There is also the hUMA and GPGPU aspects that the PS4 seems to have, but the One doesn't, which again will take a while to materialise in games.

There is no reason that a developer could not get better frame rates out of a system 50% more powerful from day one.

Depends on which platform is the lead, as well as other factors. And frame rate is not the only variable. Both platforms could have identical locked frame rates, but with downgrades elsewhere. 50% more GFLOPS will make itself know sooner rather than later, as will the GPGPU advantage the PS4 has. But maybe not at launch.

 

[Quote]

He wasn't. Read Klocker's previous posts to get an idea of where he comes from and how he posts.



He's not angry. He's tired of people like you with your coy responses and buttering up to anything Xbox and Albert. It's one thing to like the product and be enthusiastic...it's another to go out of your way to do it over all other logic and reasoning.

Anyone that has gone through simple training with a large company knows that you're either on payroll to speak on the behalf of the company or not to not speak. In either case, Albert is doing it wrong.

Sorry you are so angry... yes I was serious that you took his statement out of context

Cute. Either you have something to say or you don't.

 

[slicedmass]

the FPS in those 3rd party games will be near identical that doesn't mean the IQ and resolution will be...

 

[Andronicus]

Are you kidding? I mean really - are you kidding?

This is part and parcel of the territory here. You have to answer for your statements, especially if you're here in an official capacity. People get banned for being out of line, but poking holes in the arguments of other posters is well within the rules.

I've had my work here both praised and eviscerated, called out by numerous forum folks both publicly and via PM when I got stuff wrong, and I'm a goddamn admin. Guess what - I wouldn't have it any other way. That is what makes NeoGAF what it is.

There are many, many people who are more than capable of assessing, vetting and debunking technical claims and they have every right to do so. That's the price of doing business here. If we had official Nintendo or Sony reps on board, they would be subject to the same process.

If you're scared, buy a dog.

*Applauds*

but the whole dGPU thing is hilarious that they actually had to comment on that fanboy fairytale shit

 

[Raist]

Just saw Penello's detailed post on hardware, coming from the technical wizards.
Wow. I can believe they're still trying to push the Nelson's equation for fairy tales bandwidth calculations. Amazing.

So I explain that we have people on the team who are very experienced optimizing tools and development for graphics (DirectX, etc.) because we are a SW company, and that we have balance in the system in other places that equalize the playing field.

Yeah. There's also a LOT of very knowledgeable people on GAF, a LOT more than the "handful of "technical geniuses" you're "fortunate to have", and they'll tell you that your bandwidth voodoo etc is hogwash. So what now?

 

[Pseudo judo]

No, I don't. Albert, both the MS employee and "fellow GAF member", lives off MS's dime. His house, his car, his food and the Internet he uses to grace us comes from the company Microsoft.

Actually, this this statement is so absurd that I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not, but I'm going to assume you're not.

So he's not his own man with his own beliefs and every word of every post is pure calculated pr that's been bought and paid for so there's little point in treating him as anything but a pr machine.

So why engage him in conversation at all? It would seem a pointless endeavor if that's the case.

 

[funkystudent]

This arm chair engineering spec war was dumb enough months ago and having MS exec's trying to save face isnt helping anyone look any better.

I do like we have a MS presence on GAF now but damn son. What are you doing wasting time with this shit?

 

[qa_engineer]

It's a fair point, you did start out talking about the games, I just think you need to stay away from the "there isn't much difference" angle. There very well may not be, but people aren't going to take your word on it no matter what you say, they'll have to see it to believe it, and here is why:

I think the problem Microsoft is having, at least when it comes to people like me, it's not so much that I care that the PS4 has better graphics or that the XB1 has lesser graphics. For me, I'm having a hard time seeing the value (price and entertainment value) of the XB1 compared to the PS4 because the PS4 does cost less, and the PS4 does seem to have better specs. It's really hard for people to see why the XB1 is the better choice for them, unless they absolutely love or only play XB1 exclusive games. On the flip side, the PS4 has exclusive games as well.

The Kinect is a wonderful piece of technology, I'm just not convinced it will improve my gaming experience or offer something I will feel I am missing with a PS4. Until Microsoft can convince people of this, they are going to continue to argue what they do know, and that is price and graphics. So far they just haven't done that. I have an open mind though, like most here do I imagine.

Best junior post award goes to rjinaz. My sentiments exactly.

 

[lostsouldier]

the FPS in those 3rd party games will be near identical that doesn't mean the IQ and resolution will be...

Killer Instinct running @ 720p and fps being used as the explanation for that resolution sure as hell doesnt instill confidence. And thats an exclusive.

 

[nib95]

I agree and especially since the hardware isn't as exotic as previous consoles, the power gap should already be apparent, certainly if it's 50% as some are claiming.

Not that simple. Depends on development schedule, budget and priority. Eg, say a particular dev has had to show off x version of a game at E3, Gamescom etc. A team will have had to polish that up especially for public viewing, and thus that platform may enjoy some visual benefits or be further down the line in development than the other. That and the devs will still be getting to grips with the hardware, tools and optimisations.

Add to that, people don't realise that before January 2013, PS4 dev kits only had 4GB of GDDR5 ram in them, and 6 months before that, they had only 2GB of ram in them. So devs have actually had far less than 8GB of GDDR5 to work with for the majority of the PS4 launch games development cycle.

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

 

[Quote]

So he's not his own man with his own beliefs and every word of every post is pure calculated pr that's been bought and paid for so there's little point in treating him as anything but a pr machine.

So why engage him in conversation at all? It would seem a pointless endeavor if that's the case.

I'm engaging him on the integrity of this. I don't think anything MS does with PR is calculated anymore. He may be here on his own, it's wrong to believe he could possibly be 100% in the best interest of "fellow GAF" and not MS. Therefor when he asks us for an apology, I call bullshit.

 

[B.O.O.M]

smh asking for an apology? This is the kind of thing Sony PR did in early PS3 years which haunted them for the whole generation. This is not just about the launch but a whole console cycle...this path down undermining performance differences etc is going to come back and bite in the ass gloriously. It would be entertaining as it was with the ps3 but i still can't believe we are seeing a repeat of it yet again

MS Needs a knows-wtf-happened-last-gen fellow

 

[nib95]

Amount of calcium, acid & alkali are just on paper specs.

We need to wait until the Aquafina One launch date to see the difference between it and Volvic 4.

Lol.

 

[Finalizer]

Thank you for your contentious tone. For all of the pent up aggression in your post, if you care this much about having more stable framerates and better graphical fidelity consoles aren't for you in the first place.

This is the exact kind of attitude that's the problem here. You're only posting in this thread to feel good about yourself by demeaning the entire conversation through "lol consoles." That's not doing anything for anyone else here.

 

[Brad Grenz]

Using the GPU to do audio raycasting in a GPGPU manner is something explicitly mentioned. Given that the PS4 has 50% more CU resources, it seems obvious any DSP advantage could be compensated by GPGPU.

Actually, the audio raycasting Cerny described could not be done on the Xbox One's audio hardware. It would have to use GPU resources to match the results.

 

[benny_a]

Not that simple. Depends on development schedule, budget and priority. Eg, say a particular dev has had to show off x version of a game at E3, Gamescom etc. A team will have had to polish that up especially for public viewing, and thus that platform may enjoy some visual benefits or be further down the line in development than the other. That and the devs will still be getting to grips with the hardware, tools and optimisations.

To add to that, maybe the developers are having one version not being done in-house. The Crew PS4 version is not done in the studio that does the PC and Xbone version. (Main studio.)

I think the PS4 should overcome all that on launch date, but that's still a factor.

 

[Klocker]

Cute. Either you have something to say or you don't.

I clearly indicated that they response you gave Albert was imo taking his statement #2 out of context. Assigning him as a salesman to you and not a s a fellow gaffer being called a liar yet backing up his statements pretty clearly and asking for a mea culpa if proven correct

So you guys can get mad at all of this and attack anyone disagreeing with you or just be cool and discuss. That's what I am tying to do, keeping it light hearted, not life or death here

 

[lostsouldier]

smh asking for an apology? This is the kind of thing Sony PR did in early PS3 years which haunted them for the whole generation. This is not just about the launch but a whole console cycle...this path down undermining performance differences etc is going to come back and bite in the ass gloriously. It would be entertaining as it was with the ps3 but i still can't believe we are seeing a repeat of it yet again

MS Needs a knows-wtf-happened-last-gen fellow

"If you can find an Xbox One in a store I'll give you $1000"

 

[artist]

Man there's some salty motherfuckers in this thread.

Get over yourselves

Is this in reference to the people disappointed there is no second dGPU in the Xbone?

 

[PSGames]

LOL. I actually joked the other day that I didn't want to get "Dyack'd" off the boards.

I think reasonable people understand that it's impossible for me personally to know every detail about everything with the platform. I think I got my chops busted the other day for not knowing who People Can Fly was. I haven't been paying a ton of attention to 360 over the last year or so because I've been focusing on Xbox One.

It's very frequent I have to ask questions of others and bring the answers back. I did the same thing here - went to an expert, got an answer, and brought it back.

People don't like the answer, cool, and I have absolutely no problem with questioning my specific answers or calling them into debate. That's part of the deal on here.

It's somewhat bothersome when people think you're out to just lie or fud or make it a personal thing. But again, there is no way I'd tackle this question unless I was confident from the people on the team that I'm right. Would have been a lot easier to dodge the question. And I have thick skin (literally, since I'm a big guy), so I can handle it.

Would be great if you could get those engineers in here to comment and answer questions.

 

[ChilliWave]

If Titanfall never comes to the PS4 I'll buy you dinner.

 

[sangreal]

Killer Instinct running @ 720p and fps being used as the explanation for that resolution sure as hell doesnt instill confidence. And thats an exclusive.

that's the exact same as drive club being 1080p @ 30fps and using graphical effects as an explanation. They're both just opposite sides of a design-choice coin. One chose the higher res and lower framerate and the other chose the lower res higher framerate. Neither are really indicative of anything else

 

[Duxxy3]

Oh, I'm sure I'm going to regret this.

Let me ask on the AMA. I think the team wanted to do something different. The people I'm talking about will be getting out there to give details.

I do want to point out, this original discussion started with me saying, "Games on both systems look great. Look at Forza, Rise, Dead Rising, etc. All next-gen, on par or better than anything out there. We believe this 50% number is overstated"

Then people said, "that's subjective, we want proof"

So I explain that we have people on the team who are very experienced optimizing tools and development for graphics (DirectX, etc.) because we are a SW company, and that we have balance in the system in other places that equalize the playing field.

Then it's said that was all hokum, you're just spinning, we want math and more detail to prove what you're saying.

So at THIS point - I go talk to someone. "Hey, you helped design our system. You're a sr. technical leader at Microsoft. You're sitting with 3rd party developers right now who are working on both systems. Can you give me some points to help explain why nobody is seeing this rumored 50% delta"

Then I publish the points, so now I have GAF telling me a developer working on our system is wrong, and that I should just let the games speak for themselves.

Which is where I started. And since my attempts to provide more direct lines of information aren't considered truthful, because I'm not the source.. then I agree we are back where we started.

I will ask two questions of the detractors, honest questions.

1. What piece of information would you want that I could provide that would convince you there is not a huge delta in performance?
2. If it comes out after we launch that the difference between 3rd party games is maybe single-digit FPS between the two platforms, will I get an apology or concession?

That depends on how microsoft enforces its content policy. Will we get dumbed down PS4 ports because of your policy?

 

[Pseudo judo]

So why do you claim that performance differences are overstated? Many developers already said that PS4 is more powerful than Xbox One. Why do keep fooling your customers?

Maybe I'm missing something but he seems to have said that the power difference is overstated and the games would bare that out. FUD numbers or no this seems like a reasonable statement considering how past generations of hardware have played out in regards to the "power" game.

 

[B.O.O.M]

"If you can find an Xbox One in a store I'll give you $1000"

Yep exactly! This is just insane... It's repeating all over again.

 

[fallingdove]

Would have been a lot easier to dodge the question.

Thing is - you have dodged quite a few questions, specifically around your fuzzy math. Now, it could be that you are being advised not to respond to those questions, or it is taking time to hear back from your Technical Wizards, either way, as a result of your selectivity, your responses come off as FUD.

 

[JABEE]

Oh, I'm sure I'm going to regret this.

Let me ask on the AMA. I think the team wanted to do something different. The people I'm talking about will be getting out there to give details.

I do want to point out, this original discussion started with me saying, "Games on both systems look great. Look at Forza, Rise, Dead Rising, etc. All next-gen, on par or better than anything out there. We believe this 50% number is overstated"

Then people said, "that's subjective, we want proof"

So I explain that we have people on the team who are very experienced optimizing tools and development for graphics (DirectX, etc.) because we are a SW company, and that we have balance in the system in other places that equalize the playing field.

Then it's said that was all hokum, you're just spinning, we want math and more detail to prove what you're saying.

So at THIS point - I go talk to someone. "Hey, you helped design our system. You're a sr. technical leader at Microsoft. You're sitting with 3rd party developers right now who are working on both systems. Can you give me some points to help explain why nobody is seeing this rumored 50% delta"

Then I publish the points, so now I have GAF telling me a developer working on our system is wrong, and that I should just let the games speak for themselves.

Which is where I started. And since my attempts to provide more direct lines of information aren't considered truthful, because I'm not the source.. then I agree we are back where we started.

I will ask two questions of the detractors, honest questions.

1. What piece of information would you want that I could provide that would convince you there is not a huge delta in performance?
2. If it comes out after we launch that the difference between 3rd party games is maybe single-digit FPS between the two platforms, will I get an apology or concession?

You haven't provided the technical people on here with anything that makes mathematical sense.

If you want to wait until the games come out, why continue to spread FUD about how the difference in systems isn't that great. There doesn't seem to be anything that you have provided that leads us to what you, a representative of Microsoft, is saying is true.

We have seen things like that Major Nelson blog post in the past that have shown that Microsoft is willing to stretch the truth to win points.

If you can't provide tangible proof that the technical people on here could actually see as a realistic possibility, then you are probably better off not spreading unverifiable talking points on forums and social networks.

I know why you disagree with claims from independent developers and raw data, but you have to come to the table with calculations that make sense. Often times, when you approach a question thinking you know the answer to it, searching for evidence to support your preconceived notions, you may not solid information that you are looking for to prove your claim.

If the roles were reversed, I think you would have a much easier time demonstrating how the power of your hardware is a differentiator. It didn't even seem that important to you guys until very recently. Hardware wasn't supposed to matter.

 

[jusufin]

I see my statements the other day caused more of a stir than I had intended. I saw threads locking down as fast as they pop up, so I apologize for the delayed response.

I was hoping my comments would lead the discussion to be more about the games (and the fact that games on both systems look great) as a sign of my point about performance, but unfortunately I saw more discussion of my credibility.

So I thought I would add more detail to what I said the other day, that perhaps people can debate those individual merits instead of making personal attacks. This should hopefully dismiss the notion I'm simply creating FUD or spin.

I do want to be super clear: I'm not disparaging Sony. I'm not trying to diminish them, or their launch or what they have said. But I do need to draw comparisons since I am trying to explain that the way people are calculating the differences between the two machines isn't completely accurate. I think I've been upfront I have nothing but respect for those guys, but I'm not a fan of the mis-information about our performance.

So, here are couple of points about some of the individual parts for people to consider:

• 18 CU's vs. 12 CU's =/= 50% more performance. Multi-core processors have inherent inefficiency with more CU's, so it's simply incorrect to say 50% more GPU.
• Adding to that, each of our CU's is running 6% faster. It's not simply a 6% clock speed increase overall.
• We have more memory bandwidth. 176gb/sec is peak on paper for GDDR5. Our peak on paper is 272gb/sec. (68gb/sec DDR3 + 204gb/sec on ESRAM). ESRAM can do read/write cycles simultaneously so I see this number mis-quoted.
• We have at least 10% more CPU. Not only a faster processor, but a better audio chip also offloading CPU cycles.
• We understand GPGPU and its importance very well. Microsoft invented Direct Compute, and have been using GPGPU in a shipping product since 2010 - it's called Kinect.
• Speaking of GPGPU - we have 3X the coherent bandwidth for GPGPU at 30gb/sec which significantly improves our ability for the CPU to efficiently read data generated by the GPU.

Hopefully with some of those more specific points people will understand where we have reduced bottlenecks in the system. I'm sure this will get debated endlessly but at least you can see I'm backing up my points.

I still I believe that we get little credit for the fact that, as a SW company, the people designing our system are some of the smartest graphics engineers around – they understand how to architect and balance a system for graphics performance. Each company has their strengths, and I feel that our strength is overlooked when evaluating both boxes.

Given this continued belief of a significant gap, we're working with our most senior graphics and silicon engineers to get into more depth on this topic. They will be more credible then I am, and can talk in detail about some of the benchmarking we've done and how we balanced our system.

Thanks again for letting my participate. Hope this gives people more background on my claims.

As a person who supported xbox from day 1, comments from guys like this are the reason I will no longer buy any microsoft branded gaming product. Everything from MS PR people lately give me no reassurance on the direction of this console. It seems to me like they just keep regurgitating everything hardcore fans want to hear with no real foundation to the claims they make. Instead of trying to sell the fans on the features of the console, MS seems dead set on fighting a power battle they are obviously on the losing end of. I haven’t heard anything from MS about the Kinect or any of the features of the console, this kind of shit is the only thing coming out of MS these days and its kinda sad to see. You can spin it any way you want but anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that your system is under powered compared to the PS4. I wish you could be honest with the consumers and try to sell us on why you feel that your console offers an experience that can't be had on a competitors product. Why cant MS PR try to win over consumers by showing us something that differentiates itself from competitors instead of trying to pull the wool over our eyes (CLOUD!).

I know every post starts with the same spiel but I’m really not some Sony fan playing pretend, I am a genuinely disappointed XBOX fan. I won’t post again because I enjoy reading rather that engaging, but this whole situation really pissed me off so I had to say something.

 

[chadskin]

smh asking for an apology? This is the kind of thing Sony PR did in early PS3 years which haunted them for the whole generation. This is not just about the launch but a whole console cycle...this path down undermining performance differences etc is going to come back and bite in the ass gloriously. It would be entertaining as it was with the ps3 but i still can't believe we are seeing a repeat of it yet again

MS Needs a knows-wtf-happened-last-gen fellow

This is the path Microsoft has taken since May 21st. It boggles my mind how off and out of touch with the consumer one company can be.

 

[nib95]

That depends on how microsoft enforces its content policy. Will we get dumbed down PS4 ports because of your policy?

I sure hope not, lest 3rd party titles get left in the wind by the first party stuff technically and graphically. Though Microsoft has clearly been throwing a lot of money at EA of late lol.

 

[StevieP]

This is the exact kind of attitude that's the problem here. You're only posting in this thread to feel good about yourself while demeaning the entire conversation because "lol consoles." That's not doing anything for anyone else here.

No. I made the observation that the ps4 is the more powerful console but that the difference between the 2 isn't some massive gulf like, for example, the difference between both consoles put together and amd's current high end gear used to render all of what we've seen of bf4. I also made the observation that I've seen a lot of hypocritical posts by folks who's tones have changed from one type of thread to another. Whereas my tone has remained the same.

That doesn't change that Albert is fudging numbers being told to him, or that the ps4 has a GPU and memory advantage or even the premise of this thread. It's simply observational commentary. (Ie if people cared this intensely about the multi platform differences that this thread is moving at a breakneck pace, there are obviously multiple ways to alleviate that need. We are an enthusiast forum after all).

 

[hawk2025]

LOL. I actually joked the other day that I didn't want to get "Dyack'd" off the boards.

I think reasonable people understand that it's impossible for me personally to know every detail about everything with the platform. I think I got my chops busted the other day for not knowing who People Can Fly was. I haven't been paying a ton of attention to 360 over the last year or so because I've been focusing on Xbox One.

It's very frequent I have to ask questions of others and bring the answers back. I did the same thing here - went to an expert, got an answer, and brought it back.

People don't like the answer, cool, and I have absolutely no problem with questioning my specific answers or calling them into debate. That's part of the deal on here.

It's somewhat bothersome when people think you're out to just lie or fud or make it a personal thing. But again, there is no way I'd tackle this question unless I was confident from the people on the team that I'm right. Would have been a lot easier to dodge the question. And I have thick skin (literally, since I'm a big guy), so I can handle it.

If I understood it correctly and you are standing by the first two bullet points you posted back in your original reply, you have just asserted that you are confident that the distributive property of mathematics is wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributive_property

 

[Albert Penello]

It's a fair point, you did start out talking about the games, I just think you need to stay away from the "there isn't much difference" angle. There very well may not be, but people aren't going to take your word on it no matter what you say, they'll have to see it to believe it, and here is why:

I think the problem Microsoft is having, at least when it comes to people like me, it's not so much that I care that the PS4 has better graphics or that the XB1 has lesser graphics. For me, I'm having a hard time seeing the value (price and entertainment value) of the XB1 compared to the PS4 because the PS4 does cost less, and the PS4 does seem to have better specs. It's really hard for people to see why the XB1 is the better choice for them, unless they absolutely love or only play XB1 exclusive games. On the flip side, the PS4 has exclusive games as well.

The Kinect is a wonderful piece of technology, I'm just not convinced it will improve my gaming experience or offer something I will feel I am missing with a PS4. Until Microsoft can convince people of this, they are going to continue to argue what they do know, and that is price and graphics. So far they just haven't done that. I have an open mind though, like most here do I imagine.

This, above all others, is a fair discussion. We have to prove out that value, I agree. I don't mind at all having that debate and I'm using the product a lot and believe in that value.

But on the other point (about power) I don't want to acquiesce a feature if I don't have to. The $100 is real and it's our job to make it worth it. The power thing isn't true, hence why I bring it up.

 

[CLEEK]

Thank you for your contentious tone. For all of the pent up aggression in your post, if you care this much about having more stable framerates and better graphical fidelity consoles aren't for you in the first place.

Oh Steven.

I play consoles because the vast, vast majority of games I love aren't available on PC. Most of the games I love are either console exclusives, or Japanese games.

I can understand being a PC gamer if you only love Western multi-plats and MMOs. But I don't, so I'm not. Playing Mass Effect with a higher frame rate still means I'm playing Mass Effect, which is something I'd rather not do.

All this is a polite way of saying, shut your pie hole.

 

[slicedmass]

Best junior post award goes to rjinaz. My sentiments exactly.

Yeah, it is a great post. Its been their biggest obstacle and they have just run around it instead of tackling it head on. For me it has felt so forced and a clear indication that they caught wind of ps4 and reacted with what they felt would garner an audience and that was kinect and tv, tv, tv. The only thing I do agree with in their strategy is that the device needs to be in the box or it won't be developed for to the degree it needs to be successful but I just don't see there being compelling enough things to make it successful.

 

[beast786]

To add to that, maybe the developers are having one version not being done in-house. The Crew PS4 version is not done in the studio that does the PC and Xbone version. (Main studio.)

I think the PS4 should overcome all that on launch date, but that's still a factor.

Is that true about crew Benny ?

 

[JABEE]

This, above all others, is a fair discussion. We have to prove out that value, I agree. I don't mind at all having that debate and I'm using the product a lot and believe in that value.

But on the other point (about power) I don't want to acquiesce a feature if I don't have to. The $100 is real and it's our job to make it worth it. The power thing isn't true, hence why I bring it up.

Which power thing isn't true? That 30-40% number that can be neither proven or denied or that the Xbox is not weaker than the PS4?

What percentage would you put it at?

 

[tfur]

This is exactly what I'm talking about with integrity and representing a company. In what world does the consumer have to apologize to the guy trying to sell us something? Prove it, maybe you'll gain some sales in exchange instead of apologies.

Microsoft stil arrogant as always. In no reality is Albert's notion of apologies acceptable.
Bad form again. What a mess.

 

[JaggedSac]

As a person who supported xbox from day 1, comments from guys like this are the reason I will no longer buy any microsoft branded gaming product. Everything from MS PR people lately give me no reassurance on the direction of this console. It seems to me like they just keep regurgitating everything hardcore fans want to hear with no real foundation to the claims they make. Instead of trying to sell the fans on the features of the console, MS seems dead set on fighting a power battle they are obviously on the losing end of. I haven’t heard anything from MS about the Kinect or any of the features of the console, this kind of shit is the only thing coming out of MS these days and its kinda sad to see. You can spin it any way you want but anyone with a modicum of intelligence can see that your system is under powered compared to the PS4. I wish you could be honest with the consumers and try to sell us on why you feel that your console offers an experience that can't be had on a competitors product. Why cant MS PR try to win over consumers by showing us something that differentiates itself from competitors instead of trying to pull the wool over our eyes (CLOUD!).

I know every post starts with the same spiel but I’m really not some Sony fan playing pretend, I am a genuinely disappointed XBOX fan. I won’t post again because I enjoy reading rather that engaging, but this whole situation really pissed me off so I had to say something.

All lies, the ps4 is more powerful and cheaper and because of that my 360 friends are jumping ship. Maybe you should too. Ps4 is just the better choice.

lol, these are the posts that make reading gaf such a pleasure.

 

[ChilliWave]

I don't doubt 3rd party games will end up looking similar, but I'm afraid the reason won't be technical.

 

[N.Domixis]

This, above all others, is a fair discussion. We have to prove out that value, I agree. I don't mind at all having that debate and I'm using the product a lot and believe in that value.

But on the other point (about power) I don't want to acquiesce a feature if I don't have to. The $100 is real and it's our job to make it worth it. The power thing isn't true, hence why I bring it up.

All lies, the ps4 is more powerful and cheaper and because of that my 360 friends are jumping ship. Maybe you should too. Ps4 is just the better choice.

 

[tokyostomp]

This arm chair engineering spec war was dumb enough months ago and having MS exec's trying to save face isnt helping anyone look any better.

I do like we have a MS presence on GAF now but damn son. What are you doing wasting time with this shit?

This!

 

[StevieP]

Oh Steven.

I play consoles because the vast, vast majority of games I love aren't available on PC. Most of the games I love are either console exclusives, or Japanese games.

I can understand being a PC gamer if you only love Western multi-plats and MMOs. But I don't, so I'm not. Playing Mass Effect with a higher frame rate still means I'm playing Mass Effect, which is something I'd rather not do.

All this is a polite way of saying, shut your pie hole.

Platform exclusives are why my entertainment Center is filled with multiple manufacturers' consoles. I agree with this post. However most multiplats (east and west) are available both cross generation and on pcs, so the options are rather varied. Some produce better results than others. I was only commenting on hypocritical posting habits. I will, however, "shut my pie hole"

 

[funkystudent]

That depends on how microsoft enforces its content policy. Will we get dumbed down PS4 ports because of your policy?

This is actually something I would like answered.

Penello.

Is Microsoft trying to enforce any kind of frame-rate / resolution parity policy between xbox and PS4 games next gen?

We know some of that shit went on this generation. Maybe Sony was the one doing it to make ps3 look a little better though. No one really knows.


Please answer Penello. I would like to know.

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

This whole thing is. We want answers and we want them now!!! If not its false.

Thats not the right way to come at this.

 

[beast786]

This, above all others, is a fair discussion. We have to prove out that value, I agree. I don't mind at all having that debate and I'm using the product a lot and believe in that value.

But on the other point (about power) I don't want to acquiesce a feature if I don't have to. The $100 is real and it's our job to make it worth it. The power thing isn't true, hence why I bring it up.

 

[hawk2025]

This, above all others, is a fair discussion. We have to prove out that value, I agree. I don't mind at all having that debate and I'm using the product a lot and believe in that value.

But on the other point (about power) I don't want to acquiesce a feature if I don't have to. The $100 is real and it's our job to make it worth it. The power thing isn't true, hence why I bring it up.

And hence why we bring it up when your statements aren't mathematically true.

 

[Andronicus]

so did he comment of the inaccuracies of some of those numbers & how things dont work like how he stated yet or nah?