Or that the trackpads themselves can mimic the face buttons.
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Valve announces Steam Controller
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Or that the trackpads themselves can mimic the face buttons.
The Cowboy
Member
Perhaps the rear bottom left button could be mapped as a shift button (or tapping the X/Y button beside the trackpadt), holding this/tapping this in turn makes the left touchpad act as a dpad?
Valve should choose a classic design like this one:
Basically nobody else on GAF is going to get that, but well done. That was my first console.
Anyway, I have no idea if the Steampad is going to work or not. However, sitting at my PC to play games is a long depreciated idea that needs to die. I'm not Captain Tablet, but I'm Captain Comfy Couch, and either way the KB/M gaming concept is dead to me. I spent 30 years doing that, and am done.
Bring on the Steambox, figure out some way I won't get my ass kicked by KB/M users, and I'm GTG.
Specialmias
Member
So no sticks and weirdly-positioned buttons?
assuming you mean face, if not I apologize
That didn't address my issue at all, before attacking someone for their thinking, do some yourself
True or not true, on a traditional controller ALL four face buttons are accessible and within reach of the right thumb whilst holding the controller, whereas on this controller, two of the face buttons are NOT accessible to the right thumb whilst holding the controller?
It's a simple question to answer.
Does this intricate chart help you understand?
old manatee
Banned
From Valve's press release:
Holy shit that made me so happy. Not even kidding. Gabe is a benevolent god confirmed.
Holy shit that made me so happy. Not even kidding. Gabe is a benevolent god confirmed.
No, I meant that it's sad that there's a need for a image explaining that.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
And did you read the post where I stated I'm not gonna retrain to use fingers on back buttons instead of thumbs on face buttons?
Evidently not.
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
Yes, it does, it shows me that two of the buttons are indeed not available to my right thumb, thanks.
D
Deleted member 17706
Unconfirmed Member
You call it a bullshit line and then say that you like what you're used to and that it looks uncomfortable? That is exactly "new things scare me."
You've never tried this before. Your first reaction is to hate.
FreddieQuell
Member
I'm sure you won't believe me, but there's no retraining necessary. I had a 360 controller with two buttons on the back where your middle fingers rest that copy the function of two of the face buttons. It is immediately usable and immensely better.
rudieboy77
Member
To be completely honest, something should have been made years ago to surpass kb/m, it is over 30 year old tech.
When someone first showed you a touch screen phone did you throw it at them demanding the 9 grid buttons your fingers were trained to use? :L
Is your brain so feeble it can't cope with a slightly new control scheme?
The world must be a scary place for you.
Why is this needed? Did your PS3 or 360 controller stop working? Is the Valve controller automatically taking all other controllers off the market? Is that what's going to happen? Are you forced to buy it? Is someone going to demand that you buy it and therefore you have to?
No, what's "sad" is that THIS needs explaining.
Kageshinzo
Member
I am seriously thinking that all the people who are so negative about this are, for the most part, console gamers or at least weaned on it and are just getting into the PC scene.
I'm excited about this controller, but there's pretty much no way it can surpass a mouse in accuracy. Simply because the human thumb alone is not as precise or versatile an instrument as the entire arm, wrist and hand.
On the other hand, surpassing a thumbstick should be easy.
No, I try to skip over the stupid posts. I still end up accidentally reading some though like the one I previously quoted.
If you think its that hard to use the underside buttons, I don't know what to tell you. It's not like it'll take years to retrain. At most it'll take like...30 seconds. If it really takes you such a long time to retrain your fingers to do something so simple, I'm sorry you got stuck with that brain.
paperspace
Member
You only have a thumb on your right hand? Or are you just really stubborn and can't adjust to change?
Osiris
I permanently banned my 6 year old daughter from using the PS4 for mistakenly sending grief reports as it's too hard to watch or talk to her
No, I thought "Awesome, about time"
You see I don't have a problem with new and innovative, I loved the Wii for it's bravery in changing controls, I loved going (eventually) from kb/m to controller.
That doesn't mean I have to like this at first glance.
You see, despite assumptions I'm quite happy to try out new things, sometimes I like them, sometimes I don't
But on first impression, this still leaves me at the "Ugh, wtf" stage.
But given the number of ad-homs and attacks for holding nothing more a contrary opinion, I'll just jump out now and leave you to your circle jerk.
From the description, this is a controller designed to best play PC games. I think I personally compared it to the Sega Saturn pad and fighters, but I would call it more akin to something like the Neo-Geo CD Gamepad, which was essentially adapting the Neo Geo Arcade Stick controls into a smaller controller-esque shell. Valve was trying to basically adapt the traditional controls of the PC, the keyboard and mouse, into a controller-esque shell and the Steam Controller was what Valve came up with.
It's a controller meant to play PC games, not console games which can be played with the dual analog controller we know and love or arcade games which can be played with a Saturn based or Neo Geo CD based controller. My worry is that like fighting games and arcade sticks when compared to Saturn-based controllers, the keyboard and mouse are still going to superior to the Steam Controller. However, I do see future dual analog controllers adopting the Right and Left Paddle that the Steam controller has seemingly added since it's an obvious addition to the number of shoulder buttons a dual analog controller has.
It's a controller meant to play PC games, not console games which can be played with the dual analog controller we know and love or arcade games which can be played with a Saturn based or Neo Geo CD based controller. My worry is that like fighting games and arcade sticks when compared to Saturn-based controllers, the keyboard and mouse are still going to superior to the Steam Controller. However, I do see future dual analog controllers adopting the Right and Left Paddle that the Steam controller has seemingly added since it's an obvious addition to the number of shoulder buttons a dual analog controller has.
That didn't address my issue at all, before attacking someone for their thinking, do some yourself
True or not true, on a traditional controller ALL four face buttons are accessible and within reach of the right thumb whilst holding the controller, whereas on this controller, two of the face buttons are NOT accessible to the right thumb whilst holding the controller?
It's a simple question to answer.
Your ad-hom is noted but adds nothing to the conversation.
I'm not sure what your issue is, then. Do you feel that you *need* four face buttons, or what?
On this controller, your right thumb gets access two physical buttons (much closer to the Right stick compared to traditional controllers), and you can click down on the track pad. So, only 3 'face buttons'.
But then you have two rear buttons to access at any point regardless of your right thumb being chopped off for not.
So, holding the controller exactly as you do now, your right thumb is doing less work across the same number of inputs.
You know that the trackpad itself can act as a button/buttons, right?
old manatee
Banned
I've never understood why one of my thumbs is responsible for the camera and like half of the most important buttons on a controller while I have a bunch of fingers doing fuck all. Can anyone articulate to me what they don't like about being able to keep your thumb on the camera without saying "It's not what I'm used to?"
Ah, interesting. You think the clickable trackpads could replace the functions of the other 2 face buttons as well? Clicking sticks on regular controllers was always left as non-essential functions due to requiring to rest the stick on the middle to do it first (well, you can do it anyway if you want to feel like you're murdering your stick).
I know that this is meant to simulate other kind of control schemes, but I'd be glad if the 360 scheme is easily emulated right away like this. Having all 4 fingers easily access the 4 face buttons seems like quite a cool solution.
Someone and me suggested to rename the X and Y to 1 and 2... but in fact, all of these buttons ABXY should be relegated to non-essential stuff to indicate this. Those Portal 2 bindings now make more sense to me.
EDIT: Well now I feel like an idiot, I really thought the control scheme was meant to just replace 2 face buttons with the 2 back ones. I automatically assigned the functions of pressing the sticks to the trackpads, but I forgot they're way more versatile than that...
That is a whacky controller. I am sure it will be great, and may revolutionize controllers. Who knows I would be interested to try it out. It is just so alien that I cannot wrap my head around it.
The Portal 2 layout does not seem like a good example though. Putting the quick load on a touch screen next to the quick save and two other Buttons seems like it could cause some teeth gnashing.
The Portal 2 layout does not seem like a good example though. Putting the quick load on a touch screen next to the quick save and two other Buttons seems like it could cause some teeth gnashing.
Keihart
Member
This makes no sense whatsoever as an improvement. It's the same rationale that brougth us that horrendus Xbox D-pad.
Anyhow, im at least curious to try it, but i don't see people playing your standar dota and starcraft with this. Fighters will be like playing on a tablet with tactil rumble feedback, and i can only imagine how awful 2d platformers will be like. Although some people don't have any problem playing with touch controls , maybe i'm just not good at it.
Edit: This scheme with the trackpads that the post explains requires you to put your thumb on a specific place for an especific angle of view, yes is fast, and no , its not intuitive or precise. But what do i know , i only play videogames i don't make hardware.
I think a lot of people will give this a pass because it's Valve.
I love my nintendo games , but that wiimote was crap until wiimotion plus. Smashbros Brawl was best played with gamecube controls.
That might work. I was thinking of the buttons on the back as the X and Y. You could shift those to the front though and use the right side of the touchscreen although I'm not sure how well that would go in practice, mostly because I don't know how well that touchscreen will work.
That's exactly what I meant. I should have been more precise with my post.
Yeah but from the sounds of it you've made it pretty clear that you don't care what it's like without enough front facing buttons for your right thumb.
ArchedThunder
Banned
I'm super excited to try it, fuck the haters.
Agreed.
I don't get the hate for the Steam Controller by some people. It's not like Valve is collecting all dualshock style controllers existing on planet Earth and using them as burning material for their steam machines...
If the Steam controller doesn't pan out absolutely nothing will be lost and even if it takes off people can still stick to their 360 controllers if they prefer them...
I think a direct mapping is probably not ideal, but if you want to do it I believe there are better ideas than to use the physical face buttons. E.g. like someone else suggested you could use the grip buttons to shift the functionality of the right/left touch pad between buttons/dpad and joysticks (primary and secondary depending on the game). That should in theory be faster than moving your thumb.
MickeyKnox
Member
Unless you're someone who has never laid hands on a post SNES controller there's no "retraining" involved. It's an extension of motor skills you've already accumulated.
Hell I bet you I can turn this thing into a standard MS/Sony layout in less than 5 minutes.
Back buttons act as modifier keys for sectioned areas of the respective haptic pads on the front (quartered on the right, octupled on the left) you now have the same the same inferior method of inputting on the dpad and face buttons that require you stop being able to use your thumbs for character or camera movement AND use said inputs at the same time.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
The Guru hath spoken. Srsl33 tho this is a good post tho. Anyone looking at this as their take on the DS360 type pad isn't seeing the forest from the trees.
I think the controller looks kinda sexy. A bit bulky, but got some heft to it and sleek. Looks a bit like if Bose made a game controller.
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
I'd say Steam filled a void that was waiting to be taken. Time and place, they just hit first.
DD saved PC gaming, not Steam. Steam just got on that bandwagon early with a digital storefront.
I think Steam honestly get's way too much credit for reviving the PC market.
Great service, and someone in my family uses it daily.. but Valve didn't create broadband internet... which has way more to do with the PC gaming surging.
PandaPedinte
Member
We don't know for ourselves how is the "feel" of the controller (some developers already tested it) and I can understand if people are apprehensive it's a new design after all and scraps some concepts that have been take as the industry standard like, 4 face buttons and 4 shoulders but how are controller ergonomics evolve if "we" want it to always be the same thing we are familiar?
If Valve's controllers fails at least it tried to bring something new to the actual market.
If Valve's controllers fails at least it tried to bring something new to the actual market.
Specialmias
Member
Personally I'm skeptically optimistic. I think if it was done with new precise controls and was mapped (via community or otherwise) well it may work. But as someone who has been an early adopter of things like the virtua boy and razer hydra I've learned my lesson. However I think it might be something they can pull off if done right.
My biggest thing is that long term use and friction on a surface other than glass sounds interesting.
it's going to be so awesome to train my fingers to play this pad.
You can access more buttons now with using more fingers rather than mainly relying on your thumb. Character action games are going to be a joy to play on this.
This is sort of like using multiple finger on an arcade stick rather than just a thumb on a pad.
You can access more buttons now with using more fingers rather than mainly relying on your thumb. Character action games are going to be a joy to play on this.
This is sort of like using multiple finger on an arcade stick rather than just a thumb on a pad.
MickeyKnox
Member
Again, IF the haptic tech works as intended, sticks and dpads become obsolete.
It seems like something you'd need to have a hands-on experience to fully realize what they're attempting here, I really don't have any haptic feedback experience outside of rumble on touchscreens so I really don't know what to expect.
I agree, it needs to be precise for this to actually match (or surpass) analog sticks or KB+Mouse for RTS, 4X games. Analog sticks were an innovation back then too and so were motion controls this generation, but the latter haven't become standard because they couldn't match the precision some genres require and when they do match it, it's harder to control than using KB+M or a classic controller.
Louis Cyphre
Banned
This has me exited. Valve might even convince me to start using Ubuntu on my computer soon.
MrCookiepants
Member
I commend them for doing something different, but I'm not entirely convinced. A trackpad will never feel as good as a stick for character movement. And that button placement will straight up not work for several games I can think of.
Kageshinzo
Member
This is for PC Gaming. The "industry standard" has always been KB+M.
Again, you people should NOT look at this as a console device. This a PC device. I think this is one of the main reasons why we have the stupid knee-jerk reactions here right now.
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