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Valve reveals specs for prototype Steam Machines.

MaLDo

Member
Mid range 800 series will be in the 780GTX performance level and will be $300 in 10 months.

A great move from valve could be that you can, if you want, add one or more extra dollars in every game purchased in steam for future upgrades. So you can order a new gpu in steam hardware store for holidays with those extra dollars you spend in that year.
 
ok, I am officially hyped up for steam machine! I have an aging 1055t processor with a 7970 and I am selling this rig for $400. I will buy a PS4 this year and a Titan Steam Machine next year! In Valve I trust!
 

Gamerloid

Member
Considering I have no gaming rig, getting any one of the beta Steam Machines would be just awesome. I'll take the weakest GPU, just let me beta test!
 
It is definitely not a MiniITX board because the beta machines Valve are working on are upgradeable in how PC users expect to be able to upgrade. That means being able to add multiple graphics cards or PCIE SSDs is a requirement.

At a minimum it is a mATX board but that is doubtful.

If they are using a 90 degree riser to get a full size video card in to case that thin, the ability to add addition cards beyond the video card is unlikely. Similar to the Alienware x51.

You can still upgrade the video card, or upgrade the motherboard and processor, but I don't see how you could get more in there, based on the power supply plus the size given in the announcement.
 

Sandfox

Member
Valve hasn't really done anything to sell me on a Steam machine and I honestly do not have much faith in the OS having that high of an adoption rate.
 

wildfire

Banned
If they are using a 90 degree riser to get a full size video card in to case that thin, the ability to add addition cards beyond the video card is unlikely. Similar to the Alienware x51.

You can still upgrade the video card, or upgrade the motherboard and processor, but I don't see how you could get more in there, based on the power supply plus the size given in the announcement.

It will need a riser for a case that thin. It would be possible for a second GPU to be used in a such a layout but that would require a custom motherboard and backplate. I don't see Valve making that consideration even after their controller reveal so that shoots down my assumptions on why it can't be a mITX.

I would be thrilled if they were going all out and trying to offer a better layout for expansion slots.
 
It will need a riser for a case that thin. It would be possible for a second GPU to be used in a such a layout but that would require a custom motherboard and backplate. I don't see Valve making that consideration even after their controller reveal so that shoots down my assumptions on why it can't be a mITX.

I would be thrilled if they were going all out and trying to offer a better layout for expansion slots.
Every small form factor build I've done for myself has been compromised in one way or another. It was either a touch too big, or not expandable, or too hot, or too loud. If Valve could solve those problems with off the shelf parts, it would be great.

I suspect a majority of the Steam Machines made by the partners are going to be Micro ATX or ATX towers for minimum fuss and maximum cost savings.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
If they mass produce them and sign some deals I can see some costing 500-900 pending the build. Anymore and you may as well just build your own.
 

delta25

Banned
The idea of a steam machine with a titan coupled with the Valve brand name gives me chills. My poor fucking wallet.

edit:

Like Liquid said, if valve can implement a decent price point I may have to reconsider which route I take next gen. A set top box specifically designed around the requirements of a next gen valve engine is too good to pass up as long as the price point is competitive.
 

solarus

Member
Im regretting not waiting for the steamboxes and building my own one using a node 304. Those dimensions put mine to shame );
 
steam said:
It is also fully upgradable, allowing any user to swap out the GPU, hard drive, CPU, even the motherboard if you really want to. Apart from the custom enclosure, anyone can go and build exactly the same machine by shopping for components and assembling it themselves.

This is interesting. So that modular design is coming into fruition. Cause, this is what stops many from my friends from transitioning to the PC.

steam said:
As a hardware platform, the Steam ecosystem will change over time, so any upgrades will be at each user's discretion. In the future we'll talk about how Steam will help customers understand the differences between machines, hardware strengths and weaknesses, and upgrade decisions.

I really like to see how they implement this. Since the machines would be in the "living room", they would have to make the interface from the ground up to help the non-technicals to get around this issue.
 

Durante

Member
Honestly, I feel there has to be something off about those dimensions. I just measured it out and that's tiny.

Either
  • It uses an exceedingly effective, novel cooling method.
  • The dimensions are wrong, at least for the i7/Titan model.
  • This thing will be loud at full load. Not loud by silent PC freak standards, but loud as in first-gen 360.
 

Trojita

Rapid Response Threadmaker
I'm going to lol when beta testers post online that they are pissed they didn't get the i7 with Titan machine.
 

Quasar

Member
SteamOS is fundamentally open. It's an initiative to get more gaming on Linux. No one can have a monopoly over Linux. There's nothing stopping EA from creating their own OriginOS, for example, and reaping a lot of the benefit from what Valve is throwing their weight behind.

This all depends on how custom SteamOS is and how Valve handles Steam Machine ip and licensing.

And thats just what I want having a multiboot device for Windows, SteamOS, OriginOS, UPlayOS, etc.
 

Scum

Junior Member
Valve makes money by selling people games on Steam.

Steam is getting more and more popular, but PCs are getting squeezed more and more by other markets and by strategic incoherence on the part of Windows.

Valve's goal is to make sure Steam is able to keep getting more popular even as PCs (in a vacuum) decline.

One way to do this is to make Steam compatible with other computer OSes that already exist; that's why Valve created Steamplay and released Mac/Linux clients.

Another way to do this is to create their own gaming-oriented OS and encourage more and more ports to it; that's why Valve created SteamOS and is pushing for Linux ports from major developers.

Another way to do this is to make it easier to play games on the couch/TV so people don't feel compelled to sit at their desk when they play PC games; that's why Valve created the Steam Controller and Big Picture mode.

Yet another way to do this is to make it easier to buy PC gaming hardware at a reasonable price without having to know much about computers; that's why Valve created Steam Machines and is working with manufacturers to make them efficient and effective.

The common denominator of all these efforts is that they answer the questions of people who don't already use Steam. If someone says "well I'd get into PC gaming but it's too expensive/obnoxious to build a box," you tell them to buy a Steam Machine. If someone says "lol comfy couch," you hand them a Steam Controller. If someone wants to play indie games on a miniature HTPC streaming box, you point them to SteamOS. And so on.
Charlequin knows wha gwan. Now, if only Valve will send me a Steam controller. I wants one nao! :<
 
The only issue I have with these announced beta prototype specs is the Core i3 option, because it is dual-core. Should've gone with a cheap i5 instead. I think all final retail Steam Machines should be at least quad-core, excluding the small low-end boxes that are mainly meant for streaming and light indie games.

Valve makes money by selling people games on Steam.

Steam is getting more and more popular, but PCs are getting squeezed more and more by other markets and by strategic incoherence on the part of Windows.

Valve's goal is to make sure Steam is able to keep getting more popular even as PCs (in a vacuum) decline.

One way to do this is to make Steam compatible with other computer OSes that already exist; that's why Valve created Steamplay and released Mac/Linux clients.

Another way to do this is to create their own gaming-oriented OS and encourage more and more ports to it; that's why Valve created SteamOS and is pushing for Linux ports from major developers.

Another way to do this is to make it easier to play games on the couch/TV so people don't feel compelled to sit at their desk when they play PC games; that's why Valve created the Steam Controller and Big Picture mode.

Yet another way to do this is to make it easier to buy PC gaming hardware at a reasonable price without having to know much about computers; that's why Valve created Steam Machines and is working with manufacturers to make them efficient and effective.

The common denominator of all these efforts is that they answer the questions of people who don't already use Steam. If someone says "well I'd get into PC gaming but it's too expensive/obnoxious to build a box," you tell them to buy a Steam Machine. If someone says "lol comfy couch," you hand them a Steam Controller. If someone wants to play indie games on a miniature HTPC streaming box, you point them to SteamOS. And so on.

Great post, very concise. This should have been obvious to anyone who actually read the Steam Universe announcements and paid attention to some of Gabe's past interviews over the past year or so about the future of Steam and the desktop PC market. Steam is where Valve makes much of their money, and Valve wants to diversify and give more entry points to people who are interested in Steam and PC gaming in general. They are attempting to future-proof their main revenue stream.

Just because one aspect of their overall vision isn't for <specific person> doesn't mean that it's pointless or a waste of time. Sure, you can build your own box, and probably at lower cost than a pre-built Steam Machine at similar specs, and throw Windows 8 on it...and Valve would be just fine with that. But the fact is that some people out there who are interested in mid/high-end PC gaming simply don't want to build their own, period. Even if they understand that it's likely cheaper to do so. They simply perceive the act of learning and researching parts, buying them and putting the thing together as time-consuming or tedious or busywork. They want to get to the actual "entertainment" (playing the game at good performance) without jumping through a number of hoops to get there. A mid-to-high spec Steam Machine w/ SteamOS meets their needs IF sold at a reasonable price. Even better if a number of well-known devs get on board and support the OS.

That said, the high amount of confusion...not only here on GAF and other forums, but also among a lot of people in the press, is a little concerning. It reminds me a little bit of the Wii U's initial reveal. Valve may want to get out there in the near future and give some good interviews or something to really reiterate and clarify why they are doing all of this, what the point of it is, whom they are targeting, and so on. And I expect them to do that.
 

NervousXtian

Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
You think Valve is paying consumer prices?

Name me one company building PC's that sells them for less than the parts would cost to build yourself?

Outside of a couple Dell Outlet with Slickdeals coupon + discounts, etc.. they don't really exist.

The idea that Valve could buy the parts cheaper than you could by shopping around and would build them and sell them to you as a whole cheaper than you could build it is outright ridiculous.

This isn't Sony or MS selling the 360/PS3 at a loss. It's not gonna happen.

That i3+ 660 box would be at around $700 when all said and done.
 

HariKari

Member
Name me one company building PC's that sells them for less than the parts would cost to build yourself?

How many of those builders have a revenue hose called Steam?

The idea that Valve could buy the parts cheaper than you could by shopping around and would build them and sell them to you as a whole cheaper than you could build it is outright ridiculous.

This isn't Sony or MS selling the 360/PS3 at a loss. It's not gonna happen.

Valve can be as flexible as they want with how they price these machines. The base machine doesn't have to be much beyond a Vita TV. I don't see them selling hardware at a loss, but they could and likely will give away software (possibly HL3 bundle) to encourage adoption.
 

params7

Banned
I'm almost canceling my PS4 preorder after hearing this. I just wish Valve would have rolled this out sooner. Really waiting to see if the Steam controller can match the mouse in PC FPS's and I'll fucking jump to get a steam machine.
 

mhayze

Member
How many of those builders have a revenue hose called Steam?



Valve can be as flexible as they want with how they price these machines. The base machine doesn't have to be much beyond a Vita TV. I don't see them selling hardware at a loss, but they could and likely will give away software (possibly HL3 bundle) to encourage adoption.

I think Valve has shown themselves to be pretty astute businesspeople. Knowing Nvidia and Intel bulk pricing on the scale of what Valve could reasonably expect from $700 up machines, it wouldn't be too easy to lower the price much, and then, why do it? They just want more people buying games - it takes a LOT of game sales in Steam's business model to recover even a $100 / box loss. Plus this is a commodity PC that can run Windows, Linux, power data centers. Sell a powerful PC at a loss, and there will be people who just buy them and power web farms, academic supercomputer clusters and the like, never spending a penny on games.
 

HariKari

Member
I think Valve has shown themselves to be pretty astute businesspeople. Knowing Nvidia and Intel bulk pricing on the scale of what Valve could reasonably expect from $700 up machines, it wouldn't be too easy to lower the price much, and then, why do it? They just want more people buying games - it takes a LOT of game sales in Steam's business model to recover even a $100 / box loss.

Why are we acting like we have insight into the particular contract manufacturing Valve has planned? We don't. If you read what they've written, you get the impression that the majority of boxes will come from partners like the Battlebox Nvidia has. And there are all sorts of plays to be had here. Nvidia might gladly exchange some margin for the sake of being the chosen son to be on steam machines.

People are sitting there patching together builds on newegg as is this is somehow reflective of the process when it's not. While it's true that high end machines will still cost a lot more than consoles, I'm confident that Valve can bring the pain around the $400-600 price point quite easily. And we're talking about machines that can evolve and take advantage of hardware that is not a fixed point. Valve are not making a console. They are making an OS and having partners build to a constantly changing spec.

How cheap will Kepler be to produce two years from now? It will still absolutely smoke consoles at that point. There is way more flexibility here than anyone is giving Valve credit for. It's about as far away from the traditional "produce a box to sell games for 7 years" model as you can get.
 

fritolay

Member
Valve makes money by selling people games on Steam.

Steam is getting more and more popular, but PCs are getting squeezed more and more by other markets and by strategic incoherence on the part of Windows.

Valve's goal is to make sure Steam is able to keep getting more popular even as PCs (in a vacuum) decline.

One way to do this is to make Steam compatible with other computer OSes that already exist; that's why Valve created Steamplay and released Mac/Linux clients.

Another way to do this is to create their own gaming-oriented OS and encourage more and more ports to it; that's why Valve created SteamOS and is pushing for Linux ports from major developers.

Another way to do this is to make it easier to play games on the couch/TV so people don't feel compelled to sit at their desk when they play PC games; that's why Valve created the Steam Controller and Big Picture mode.

Yet another way to do this is to make it easier to buy PC gaming hardware at a reasonable price without having to know much about computers; that's why Valve created Steam Machines and is working with manufacturers to make them efficient and effective.

The common denominator of all these efforts is that they answer the questions of people who don't already use Steam. If someone says "well I'd get into PC gaming but it's too expensive/obnoxious to build a box," you tell them to buy a Steam Machine. If someone says "lol comfy couch," you hand them a Steam Controller. If someone wants to play indie games on a miniature HTPC streaming box, you point them to SteamOS. And so on.

Next they need to get EA making good PC games again, and making their sports games on this platform.
 
I was looking through the thread trying to see if this was mentioned, but didn't so if I'm repeating things sorry.

Any thoughts on what sort of performance improvements SteamOS may offer, and, thus, coming off of all the Mantle talk, whether they may be developing a similar strategy with Nvidia that SteamOS can take advantage of?

I ask after seeing that all the hardware lined up for the beta is Nvidia and Intel...
 

SparkTR

Member
I was looking through the thread trying to see if this was mentioned, but didn't so if I'm repeating things sorry.

Any thoughts on what sort of performance improvements SteamOS may offer, and, thus, coming off of all the Mantle talk, whether they may be developing a similar strategy with Nvidia that SteamOS can take advantage of?

I ask after seeing that all the hardware lined up for the beta is Nvidia and Intel...

Mantle is open, so Nvidia could support it. We mainly just need Linux support for it.
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
Someone else told me AMD's Linux drivers are crap. That might explain why. Plus who knows, Nvidia might have their own technology to counter Mantle.

Might.....

They bought out 3dfx they have as much as good starting point as anyone else in the industry that could even try.
 

slapnuts

Junior Member
Cherry picking other expensive components yeah lol.

You also have the most expensive possible 660 on the list. 16GB of unnecessary DDR3, etc.

Your build is horrible imo. A bunch of wasted money.

No...it simply sounds like you have a problem with being wrong....lame

The bro you quoted was spot on...the little parts add up! And comparing your logic to the PS4 is stupid....Sony has a lot more sales already locked down than SteamBox...SteamBox will in NO WAY sell as many as PS4 because SteamBox is a prebuilt PC what is so groundbreaking with that?....my point being...Valve will NOT be taking a huge loss off the bat..that is bad business for something that is new venture..it's common sense, something you seem to lack, no offense. :)

By the way..if any one is getting great OEM deals..its not Valve but Sony. So you will not see a SteamBox that far off from newegg prices for PC parts,etc
 

SparkTR

Member
There goes any hopes of the pricing being near console range.

Their goal should be trying to beat custom-built PC prices right now, not console prices. People are always saying "build it yourself, you'll save money", if Valve can break that mantra it should be considered a success.

Regardless, the main thing is that in 2-3 years PC hardware will have advanced so much, to the point where even a 500 machine could be 3 times more powerful than next gen consoles, nevermind the high-end stuff. If Valve leverages that it could be a nice long-term benefit.
 

mhayze

Member
Why are we acting like we have insight into the particular contract manufacturing Valve has planned? We don't. If you read what they've written, you get the impression that the majority of boxes will come from partners like the Battlebox Nvidia has. And there are all sorts of plays to be had here. Nvidia might gladly exchange some margin for the sake of being the chosen son to be on steam machines.

People are sitting there patching together builds on newegg as is this is somehow reflective of the process when it's not. While it's true that high end machines will still cost a lot more than consoles, I'm confident that Valve can bring the pain around the $400-600 price point quite easily. And we're talking about machines that can evolve and take advantage of hardware that is not a fixed point. Valve are not making a console. They are making an OS and having partners build to a constantly changing spec.

How cheap will Kepler be to produce two years from now? It will still absolutely smoke consoles at that point. There is way more flexibility here than anyone is giving Valve credit for. It's about as far away from the traditional "produce a box to sell games for 7 years" model as you can get.

I understand what you're saying, I really do - Valve could have come up with some fixed spec, non upgradable, less expensive solution that integrated an intel CPU, a kepler GPU and some soldered RAM - maybe for 30% less than the parts in an upgradeable off-the-shelf built PC.

I would have been quite intrigued if they had done this, but they haven't.

There is no fixed spec, and these boxes are upgreadeable, which makes it quite hard to sell a PC at a serious discount with all that. If it was a box with a socketed standard CPU and standard PCIe GPU card, then it would literally be dismantled and sold on ebay. So no fixed-standard non-upgradeable spec, no discount. I just don't see one working without the other.
 

Reallink

Member
But this goes completely against the ethos of what it means to be a PC gamer.

What I suspect Valve is trying to do for the customer you are talking about is removing the worry that after downloading or inserting their disc they find out the game doesn't work on their machine or is plagued by bugs.



Steam boxes are going to take away the stability problems that plagues PC gaming, not the ability to spend what you want for the performance you desire.

Perhaps I'm mistaken in their goal with the Steambox then. I thought going against the "ethos of what it means to be a PC gamer" was exactly what they were trying to do. I was operating under the assumption they were attempting to appeal to a new segment that simply wants to pay $500 or whatever for a no nonsense game/media box for the living room. Obviously that does not preclude you from dropping in a Titan if you want, and I was assuming annual iterations and branded upgrade kits were a given. Countless companies have been doing branded PC gaming machines for eons, none of them have had any kind of impact for the same reasons. I think you have to have a singular, highly visible, relatively low cost box you can point to as a defacto standard. What we're basically getting is a Valve Alienware line.
 

Jimrpg

Member
I don't really like any of the three announcements. I think they should have made the ONE box... Which they can upgrade every year... Pretty much like the iPhone upgrade cycle. This will be a very good box but not top of the line... At least capable of competing with ps4 and xbone in the first couple of years. Some ppl will jump in at the start and not upgrade very often while others who want the latest spec can upgrade yearly. Any one who wants to go above and beyond can still make their own PC with a 100gb of ram if they still want.

It just makes so much more sense if you are going mass market with one system which has one message... Gabe is not the saviour a lot of ppl think he is.

I don't really have an issue with steam OS although the messaging makes it seem really pointless... Why install it and run your games over streaming when you can run windows and run native on every single game?

Also the steam controller looks like a backwards 360 controller... And also seems geared toward fps which probably sends the wrong message.
 

Zee-Row

Banned
I thought this was a console aiming for the living room crowd? Seems like with those kind of specs they are just targeting their own fans and not expanding its fan base it this thing is expensive.
 

Saty

Member
Many are neglecting the subscriptions needed for basic\expected functionality in the XB1\PS4 when comparing the price between them and a potential SteamMachine, that doesn't require any additional payment to use such features.

Sure, maybe it's more 'digestible' to pay the subscription in the months after rather than everything upfront but you're sill will be paying that total sum.
Plus with SteamMachine you may be paying more but you are also getting more.
 
how does no one read
It's a legitimate question, tho: if MS by some chance counters this w/ a Windows designed exclusively for gaming (seeing as how mainly gamers will be core PC purchasers in the future, besides corporations), SteamOS and Steambox's roles become severely marginalized. Most of the people it sounds like Steambox is geared at know how to build their own systems already, and Valve won't be getting big enough discounts on bulk to keep the machine in PS4/XBO price territory.

MS could very well do it and kill any momentum Valve has with this thing by releasing a Windows w/ gaming-optimized features and ripping out all the non-gaming features. There'd be no purpose for SteamOS or Steambox by then either; PC gamers will stick with Windows b/c of the games they can play on it already and the fact a gaming-oriented Windows OS could basically rob Valve of playing the hero. I'm surprised they haven't done it already tbh.

Valve needs to count on MS not being interested enough in PC gaming (or the PC market in general) to do that, and needs to get this thing going big very soon. Even as it stands, can any PC gamer somewhat decent at making builds truly say they'd buy a Steambox right now instead of designing a custom PC? Lots of answers in this thread are saying the latter.

And this is from a console gamer interested in SteamOS/Steambox btw.
 

Atomski

Member
It's a legitimate question, tho: if MS by some chance counters this w/ a Windows designed exclusively for gaming (seeing as how mainly gamers will be core PC purchasers in the future, besides corporations), SteamOS and Steambox's roles become severely marginalized. Most of the people it sounds like Steambox is geared at know how to build their own systems already, and Valve won't be getting big enough discounts on bulk to keep the machine in PS4/XBO price territory.

MS could very well do it and kill any momentum Valve has with this thing by releasing a Windows w/ gaming-optimized features and ripping out all the non-gaming features. There'd be no purpose for SteamOS or Steambox by then either; PC gamers will stick with Windows b/c of the games they can play on it already and the fact a gaming-oriented Windows OS could basically rob Valve of playing the hero. I'm surprised they haven't done it already tbh.

Valve needs to count on MS not being interested enough in PC gaming (or the PC market in general) to do that, and needs to get this thing going big very soon. Even as it stands, can any PC gamer somewhat decent at making builds truly say they'd buy a Steambox right now instead of designing a custom PC? Lots of answers in this thread are saying the latter.

And this is from a console gamer interested in SteamOS/Steambox btw.

MS has done this.. its called Xbox.

MS's PC stuff has been embarrassing at best.. and thus they are disolving GFWL today.. that has left a huge bad taste in many PC gamers mouths. I doubt anyone would trust them to "focus on PC gaming" anytime soon.. hell specially when they start trying to charge money every month for who knows what. If anything MS has paved the way for Steam OS with all their screw ups.
 

Durante

Member
Even as it stands, can any PC gamer somewhat decent at making builds truly say they'd buy a Steambox right now instead of designing a custom PC? Lots of answers in this thread are saying the latter.
But Valve doesn't care whether you use Steam on a custom-built PC or a Steambox. People continuing to build their own PCs and run whatever OS supporting Steam they want on them is not an issue for Valve.
 

Sentenza

Member
MS has done this.. its called Xbox.

MS's PC stuff has been embarrassing at best.. and thus they are disolving GFWL today.. that has left a huge bad taste in many PC gamers mouths. I doubt anyone would trust them to "focus on PC gaming" anytime soon.. hell specially when they start trying to charge money every month for who knows what. If anything MS has paved the way for Steam OS with all their screw ups.
What's funny about Microsoft is how they are still promising "a renewed focus on PC gaming" every five-six months and systematically nothing ever follows.
 
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