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Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?
- Thread starter FyreWulff
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Rogue_Ledr
Banned
Halo 4 was a massive disappointment for me. The worst part of it was those horrible Promethean enemies. They were so horribly designed.
The orily reason Halo 4 tutrned out as well as it did was because they designers had the framework of the previous titles to work with.
The orily reason Halo 4 tutrned out as well as it did was because they designers had the framework of the previous titles to work with.
Why not?
Latvian Hitman
Member
I disagree.
During H4's launch week, we saw peak pops around 400k. People were hyped for the game, and they wanted to like the MP. They just didn't.
On the anecdotal side, I saw it all up and down my friend's list. Guys who I had played H2 and 3 with for years, and who were a bit turned off by Reach, were all excited for H4. "Halo is back", they said. Everyone went to the midnight launch, we all split into groups of 4 to play campaign, and then we started playing MP. We stayed up until 6 in the morning doing it on launch night. We played into the next day, and the day after. Within a few days, everyone was pretty turned off by the problems listed in the OP. The game (MP, specifically) just wasn't very good, there's no getting around it.
Poker Face
Member
And you know this how? What was the last AAA arena shooter that was on Xbox that had no loadouts/perks/killstreaks?
Oh that was Halo 3.
......
Warm Machine
Member
I can guarantee Titanfall is going to do really well. It benefits from being an exclusive and has a CoD attachment factor that has and is going to be played up to the userbase. I don't think it will do CoD numbers though. Destiny will do well as well but I'm not betting on CoD numbers either. We've seen what Planetside 2 has been doing on PC. We can see Borderlands 2 not even charting on 360 right now.
Look, the reason why CoD and Battlefield is kicking ass on that chart is because that is what the vast majority of the userbase on the console likes and plays. That is the biggest data point to take away. To suggest CoD style gameplay is not appreciated is crazy talk. Halo being less of a game in feature for feature comparison isn't going to make it rise to the top and above those games or bring people back. If anything Halo 5 would need to be Battlefield 4 level madness to get back on top. It isn't what I want out of Halo but the market is in control and the market is pretty clear.
Majmun
Member
I dunno. Halo 4 was more Born This Way. It had a few heights, but the lows kinda ruined the whole experience.
Poker Face
Member
Halo 4 was definitely not the born this way.
I'm as much of a Bungle hater as anyone on this board, and even I have to admit there's a huge discrepancy in what fans wanted for Halo 4 and what 343i gave them. It's not a bad game. Aside from a few issues here and there, it's actually a very well made game. The problem is it simply went chasing after a different audience and abandoned what many loved about the series to begin with.
Halo can be just as popular as Battlefield and Call of Duty if 343i plays to the series' strengths. The audience is certainly there, judging by the initial adoption rate and population levels. It's just when people saw what the game was, they didn't want it. You return to the Halo 2, and even Halo 3, style of gameplay and the people will return -- if Microsoft can convince them to buy an Xbone.
Does Battlefield even sell anywhere near as much as Halo?
BF and COD are now the go to multiplayer games for the FPS audience, maybe if Halo multiplayer was to go back to basics then numbers would improve, but eventually they'd still fade.
Edit. It's the reason why the multiplayer numbers to me, don't mean the franchise has been harmed.
Great read OP fyre.
when it comes to campaign nothing beats Halo 1. I have repeated that campaign maybe 30 times and never gets tired of it. It has so great atmosphere and mystery to it. The music was legendry. I still have almost all the track on my phone and listens to them while I work out. Great tracks. Multiplayer is all Halo 3. Balanced. Everyone starts equal and the best man/woman wins. No AA. Nothing to protect you if you messed up. No shield to protect you while moving away from cross fire. Walking side ways like a fucking crab behind cover. Halo is the main reason I game. I buy almost every blockbuster game out there. But halo is my gaming soul. If that's ruined, then everything is ruined for me. I might seriously stoop gaming.
when it comes to campaign nothing beats Halo 1. I have repeated that campaign maybe 30 times and never gets tired of it. It has so great atmosphere and mystery to it. The music was legendry. I still have almost all the track on my phone and listens to them while I work out. Great tracks. Multiplayer is all Halo 3. Balanced. Everyone starts equal and the best man/woman wins. No AA. Nothing to protect you if you messed up. No shield to protect you while moving away from cross fire. Walking side ways like a fucking crab behind cover. Halo is the main reason I game. I buy almost every blockbuster game out there. But halo is my gaming soul. If that's ruined, then everything is ruined for me. I might seriously stoop gaming.
Warm Machine
Member
What game did they move on to?
Latvian Hitman
Member
Most of us eventually went back to BF3, which was over a year old at that point. We still played a mixture of BF3, H4, (for as long as we could stomach it) and BO2, but BF3 was probably where we wound up spending most of our time.
To be honest, it would be impossible in today's crowded marketplace for any shooter to get close to what Halo 3 did. But matching Reach should have been trivial. And Halo 4 didn't. Most of the reasons for the multiplayer issues have already been explored (but seriously, handling of the DLC was just a disaster - 343 flat out lied after the debacle of the first map pack being free for everyone, playlists were mismanaged and became grindfests for very, very badly designed achievements).
But the whole game needed a lot of work. The script was bad. The villain weak. The game had a lack of set pieces. The Promethean were just a terrible, badly designed enemy. The visual design was horrible. The Forerunner weapons were conceptually horrible (look, it's a rifle, but it shoots orange! Truly, we have discovered the bounty of the Forerunner!).
I mention the weapons sandbox a lot, but the scary thing is that listening to their podcast they were actually very upbeat about it! They thought they'd really nailed it by making human weapons again instead of anything interesting. That sort of attitude really worries me for the rest of the series.
But the whole game needed a lot of work. The script was bad. The villain weak. The game had a lack of set pieces. The Promethean were just a terrible, badly designed enemy. The visual design was horrible. The Forerunner weapons were conceptually horrible (look, it's a rifle, but it shoots orange! Truly, we have discovered the bounty of the Forerunner!).
I mention the weapons sandbox a lot, but the scary thing is that listening to their podcast they were actually very upbeat about it! They thought they'd really nailed it by making human weapons again instead of anything interesting. That sort of attitude really worries me for the rest of the series.
gAg CruSh3r
Member
Great OP! I wish they had a public beta for Halo 4. I know it was not part of schedule they had but that would have helped a lot before day launch. I really hope they have a beta for Halo 5.
FaintColt388301
Member
I really miss the 50 level system. I think moving to an always advancing leveling system was a bad idea. The fact that you could lose you level by doing badly made winning or losing a big deal. It made me want to keep playing. It was a nice challenge.
I know Bungie made the switch but I would like to see that system come back even though I'm pretty sure it's gone for good
I know Bungie made the switch but I would like to see that system come back even though I'm pretty sure it's gone for good
User 73706
Banned
It's the Every Other 4th Mainline Installment in a Big Xbox Franchise curse.
They actually brought back 1-50 ranks in the form of CSR, but you can't actually see it in-game, only on Waypoint, and it's alays out of date by one game. Also 343 did a really bad job of informing people that it exists. It's kind of a joke, really.
FaintColt388301
Member
One of my friends who pretty much only plays nothing but Halo on a regular basis got 4 played it for a couple months then switched to Alien:CM multiplayer. Nuff said
These are poor examples though. Planetside 2 is a boring game. Sure it has huge scale, but everything feels like it's made of cardboard, and the shooting is rotten. It's just a very poor shooter compared to Battlefield no matter the theme. It also has no console presence, which is a big deal for shooters now. While Borderlands 2 is co-op and based on content. Most people have gone through the game and all the DLC a while ago. Of course it would drop off.
We'll know pretty soon how well Ghosts does, not just in sales but in user retention. If it shows weakness, Titanfall and Destiny are going to sweep in and steal its lunch.
This post should be printed on huge banners and hung in every room of 343's offices.
The Lamonster
Member
I loved Halo 4.
meh @ all the issues noted in the OP. I thought it was a worthy effort for a newbie dev trying to climb out of Bungie's giant shadow. I still boot it up sometimes and always have a blast
meh @ all the issues noted in the OP. I thought it was a worthy effort for a newbie dev trying to climb out of Bungie's giant shadow. I still boot it up sometimes and always have a blast
ElzarTheBam
Member
FaintColt388301
Member
I forgot about that. By the time they put it in I had already stopped playing. What took them so long to put it in? Even then it's a secondary system that isn't even noticeable unless you go look for it.
They really weren't ready for everything that comes along with a massive online community.
They didn't know CoD was gonna do it until it was too late.
Star Falcon
Member
Nice charts and annotation in the OP.
The game still sold pretty well but i do think there was massive franchise fatigue by this point (same with Gears of War Judgment). I wonder how things would have been if they had postponed release until Xbox One launch. Lower sales for sure, but potentially much longer legs.
Halo 4 feels like a throwaway entry in the series. Personally i thought it was okay - the multiplayer was fun for a while and the campaign had some cool missions, but i got a lot more out of Halo 3 and Reach. Reach in particular i played on and off for well over a year, whereas Halo 4 i don't think i played longer than a week or two after launch.
The game still sold pretty well but i do think there was massive franchise fatigue by this point (same with Gears of War Judgment). I wonder how things would have been if they had postponed release until Xbox One launch. Lower sales for sure, but potentially much longer legs.
Halo 4 feels like a throwaway entry in the series. Personally i thought it was okay - the multiplayer was fun for a while and the campaign had some cool missions, but i got a lot more out of Halo 3 and Reach. Reach in particular i played on and off for well over a year, whereas Halo 4 i don't think i played longer than a week or two after launch.
I cannot think of a franchise that feels more finished than Halo to me, the story ended, it had a finale, the original developers moved on, and the last game they released in the series was a prequel - a sign that things were over.
Of course things are not really over as long as the mighty dollar is involved and Halo will go on for years, but my own excitement and hype for this series has evaporated and Halo 4 was the game that did it.
When i bought Halo 4 i wanted it to be 2004-2005, when i and millions of others spent every night playing Halo 2, it was the apex of online gaming on a console. I wanted that time to come back, to experience that all again. That never really happened no matter how much i wanted it to. Halo back then was a leader, it set standards that are the norm today for both consoles and even PC shooters. Today Halo is not a leader anymore and has not been for years, its a follower, and like many series it follows and tries to get that CoD audience to get into it, while completely losing its identity and what made it special.
I am sure Halo 5 will do its sales, they will sell that game purely on Xbox One visuals, and the developers will say all the right things to please the fragmented fanbase. But i dont think Halo will ever be the leader again, it feels like time passed the series by, and it belongs in the last decade and not here today. The original creators seem to agree with that and they moved on.
Of course things are not really over as long as the mighty dollar is involved and Halo will go on for years, but my own excitement and hype for this series has evaporated and Halo 4 was the game that did it.
When i bought Halo 4 i wanted it to be 2004-2005, when i and millions of others spent every night playing Halo 2, it was the apex of online gaming on a console. I wanted that time to come back, to experience that all again. That never really happened no matter how much i wanted it to. Halo back then was a leader, it set standards that are the norm today for both consoles and even PC shooters. Today Halo is not a leader anymore and has not been for years, its a follower, and like many series it follows and tries to get that CoD audience to get into it, while completely losing its identity and what made it special.
I am sure Halo 5 will do its sales, they will sell that game purely on Xbox One visuals, and the developers will say all the right things to please the fragmented fanbase. But i dont think Halo will ever be the leader again, it feels like time passed the series by, and it belongs in the last decade and not here today. The original creators seem to agree with that and they moved on.
Basically, yeah. I'm asking to be proven wrong.
I'm still not seeing any population numbers being posted to back that up.
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
What happened? The best Halo game was released. Everyone I know personaly agrees. Only on forums have I heard otherwise.
Well that's 8 year old hardware issues. Hopefully it shouldn't be a problem with next gen coming up.
Hydranockz
Member
Halo 3 was released, yes.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Geez, both latest installments of MS's two most popular games didn't last that long. That just suck.
Syphon Filter
Member
It's been said numerous times already. They need to return Halo back to it's roots not only for multiplayer but campaign as well. Even small things that are actually important like the classic Halo theme needs to be in Halo 5.
FaintColt388301
Member
I proposed this same thing in another thread but some dude said it would have been dumb. I think it would have worked out better. The community would have been alright with more reach. 343 could have played around with it more to get their feet wet more than they did. They could have put more work in to 4. They wouldn't have burned and tired out a lot of the community. Instead of it being a fall 14 game it could have been a launch title. A lot of people already think xbone has they better launch games, this could have really set that in stone for them. Having a really big name game at launch would have taken some of the heat off of them and could have easily sold the system for a lot of people. Halo 5 is going to take a lot more work to do that after what Halo 4 did. I for one don't even care about it any more and I was a huge Halo fan, I put more time into 3 than I have any other game and reach is probably second to that.
Yeah Halo 4 made a lot of money and Halo 5 will too but I would have much preferred it never happened and just became a Xbone launch title. Even though I'd still get a PS4 over it, I think it could have stopped a lot of people from jumping ship
Assuming the people you know is a lot less than people who think its bad. Its cool if you like the game but citing "people you know" isn't really that good.....
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Well, look at the graphs in the OP. It seems to me like roughly 980.000 Halo fans disagree.
I loved Halo 4.
meh @ all the issues noted in the OP. I thought it was a worthy effort for a newbie dev trying to climb out of Bungie's giant shadow. I still boot it up sometimes and always have a blast
Still, the cheer number of completely ridiculous gameplay related decisions is baffling and does not raise any hopes for the future of the franchise.
Completely non-alien alien weapons. Linear corridor-based level design. Perks, Killstreaks. Boring, bullet spongy enemies. Complete disregard for the community. Stupid changes to gametypes like CTF: Anyone who played an area FPS like even the UT2004 demo for little more that half-hour knew that flag auto pickup and not being able to drop it was a probably really bad idea without even having to try it out.
Poker Face
Member
Yea and all of my friends think Halo 4 was bad. People on forums seem to agree.
They really do need to bring the monks back.
I think it was a depressing combination of factors.
On the one hand, there was too much change for people who didn't want change to the Halo multiplayer formula. However, on the other, there wasn't enough change for the people who are tired of the Halo multiplayer formula.
I, personally, got bored with it unless I was just goofing around with friends. But the same goes for any Halo multiplayer - I don't jump on 3 or Reach either because I am tired of the typical FPS (Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch/CTF/Insert small variations on those main three types) formula.
Honestly, the most fun I have with Halo is when playing gametypes like Infection, or playing things like Speed Halo with friends.
Unfortunately, I don't think they can without Marty. I mean, they could bring back those vocals but not that theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5yVOFokLVY
I don't think we well ever get this in Halo again, and by extension, I think that air of mystery and discovery is gone as well.
On the one hand, there was too much change for people who didn't want change to the Halo multiplayer formula. However, on the other, there wasn't enough change for the people who are tired of the Halo multiplayer formula.
I, personally, got bored with it unless I was just goofing around with friends. But the same goes for any Halo multiplayer - I don't jump on 3 or Reach either because I am tired of the typical FPS (Deathmatch/Team Deathmatch/CTF/Insert small variations on those main three types) formula.
Honestly, the most fun I have with Halo is when playing gametypes like Infection, or playing things like Speed Halo with friends.
Unfortunately, I don't think they can without Marty. I mean, they could bring back those vocals but not that theme.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5yVOFokLVY
I don't think we well ever get this in Halo again, and by extension, I think that air of mystery and discovery is gone as well.
Acrylic7
Member
ODST was amazing though and Reach at least had fun custom games.
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