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Halo 4, One Year Later: What Happened?

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This.

There seems to be a real prevailing notion here that the only way to "save" Halo is going back to catering to "pro players" or whatever only, when in reality that little niche of players is a small fraction of the daily playerbase that they so desperately care about maintaining.

They should absolutely cater to the people who know Halo the best and play it the most. They just can't do so to the point of excluding the huge numbers of other potential players either.

You can balance a skill curve along with intelligent match-making to ensure that a game is accessible at the outset for new players, but deep, nuanced and skillfull enough to continue to challenge and satisfy people for 100s and 100s of hours.

Every single Halo has been imperfect in one way or another when it comes to multiplayer balance. But every game between Halo and Halo Reach was able to make newer players feel like they could get traction, while simultaneously ensuring established players felt the benefits of the time they've put in to mastering the core Halo mechanics the updated sandbox.

It can be done. Halo 4 failed at it.
 

Vooduu

Member
It tried to be Call of Duty. Simple. It was way too fast paced and instant respawn made shit ridiculous. Spartan OPs was dumb too. I played for a month then never looked back yet I played Halo 3 religiously.

PLEASE someone quote me and tell me wtf went wrong with the story. Master Chief and Cortana were actually ok, but Commander Palmer? Yeesh.

Then they have this entire mini-series on Lasky then the best interaction between him and the Chief is a couple of facial expressions. Then you have the ending where he says 4 sentences to the Chief. Wtf?

yes I'm a pissed off Halo fan.
 

Defect

Member
Franchise fatigue...Reach and OSDT shouldn't have happened...
I'm not tired of Assassins Creed. It's obvious people aren't tired of CoD or any sports games.

Halo 4 was the fastest selling Halo game. It didn't sell as much as 3 or Reach for all I know but I do know that if it was franchise fatigue, it wouldn't have sold in the millions.
 
Never been a big MP fan which is the thrust of the OP, however I will say this from a campaign POV.

QTEs do NOT belong in a Halo game.

Really soured the campaign for me, which I enjoyed aside from the QTEs.

'Press RB to Kill Elite'? u gotta be trollin' me!
 

antitrop

Member
I don't even care about Halo, never have, but that was absolutely a fantastic read, OP.

Incredibly interesting, I love graphs and statistics and shit.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
It tried to be Call of Duty. Simple. It was way too fast paced and instant respawn made shit ridiculous. Spartan OPs was dumb too. I played for a month then never looked back yet I played Halo 3 religiously.

PLEASE someone quote me and tell me wtf went wrong with the story. Master Chief and Cortana were actually ok, but Commander Palmer? Yeesh.

Then they have this entire mini-series on Lasky then the best interaction between him and the Chief is a couple of facial expressions. Then you have the ending where he says 4 sentences to the Chief. Wtf?

yes I'm a pissed off Halo fan.

You forgot the character Assassination 343 has put out on this character.

2963001779_1_7_9xysBuly.jpg
 

Mechazawa

Member
Frankly, I like Halo 4, but I'm getting fucking sick of the lack of maps this series always seems to launch with and it was easily at it's worst with 4. There's only so much Haven I can play.
 
Never been a big MP fan which is the thrust of the OP, however I will say this from a campaign POV.

QTEs do NOT belong in a Halo game.

Really soured the campaign for me, which I enjoyed aside from the QTEs.

'Press RB to Kill Elite'? u gotta be trollin' me!

Oh lord. There are 2 QTEs in the whole game I think and both are in the first 5 minutes.
 

Card Boy

Banned
Halo 4 defenders remind me of Diablo 3 ass kisses, you are fucken wrong.

Good OP,

My thoughts on why it failed;


  • Perk system
  • Custom Loadouts - This ruined map control and fighting all over the map for weapons
  • Specialisations
  • Instant respawn
  • Bad spawns
  • No local search - People where put in international games
  • Lag
  • No Firefight
  • Sprint - Normally i wouldn't mind except the pacing of Halo has being changed, for i would argue for the worse.
  • Bad maps
  • Terrible map balance - I remember a Gaus Hog, Banshee, Tanks, Ghosts, turrents and regular War hogs all on a couple maps.
  • Spartan Ops was a joke and 85% of the content where just maps from the SP, with no variation.
  • Ordnance Drops - Basically giving unnecessary power weapons to every scrub
  • Playlists where a joke
  • Lobby UI was bad
  • War Pass soured people
  • Missing game modes like Hog Race, Elites and Slayer variants such as Mags, DMRs, Snipers only.
  • Prioritizing Infinity Slayer over regular Slayer and killing Slayer Pro.
  • Forge was a joke and still is compared to Reach.
  • Promethean Vision was just an embarrassment and gave people a few second wall hack.
  • Still not making active camo a map drop was just ridiculous, all it did was encourage camping.
  • Campaign was inferior to previous Halos, meaning less people where inclined to do co-op runs (QTEs, much more linear, less open, laggy, no easter eggs, less 'more ways of doing sections', too many cutscenes, no brutes, serious grunts etc)
 

Vooduu

Member
You forgot the character Assassination 343 has put out on this character.

Dr.Hasley wasn't even the worse of the false advertising 343 put out.

Laskey I tell you, Laskey. You have an entire TV MINI SERIES based around one guy for your upcoming blockbuster video game yet when he reunites with the Chief, what was the best dialogue he could muster? Pathetic.

I'm not asking for some bro-mance but shit, 343 is talking about Chief being more human yet everybody around him is acting more robotic than he is.

Halo 4 defenders remind me of Diablo 3 ass kisses, you are fucken wrong

lmao gold.
 
Selling map packs is stupid, kills how many people you can get paired up with and you end up playing the packed in maps more then new ones.

Weapon update was way too late, it did help but should have been looked at in the first month or two, not half a year later.

Too many insta-kills, Halo has always had them but never to the extreme as halo 4.

Random power weapon drops.

Personal ordinance ruined planning out team games and controlling the map more often then not.

Gauss hog should not have any auto aim at all, most OP vehicle in the game above scorpion.

Spartan ops was boring as fuck and way too long, would have been better to have less stages with more love in each one then an arena shooter.

There is a lot more I can say about halo 4 but you get the point.
 
Oh lord. There are 2 QTEs in the whole game I think and both are in the first 5 minutes.

1 would be too many. QTEs are as alien to what makes Halo 'Halo' as anything I can think of, and really made me wonder WTF were 343 thinking?

Yeah, possibly the vexxed me a bit much on balance, but they simply don't belong all IMO of course.
 

Satchel

Banned
It's funny. I actually love Halo 4. I've stopped playing because of 343's fucking stupid obsession with giant maps.

As much as I love Adrift and Haven, I don't want to play on them forever.
 

Killer

Banned
Worst Halo ever. It's a bad game. I bought the season pass and I never played the DLC maps. What a piece of shit.

Thank god BF exists. It is my to go MP shooter now.
 
Basically, yeah. I'm asking to be proven wrong.

Wow, so I can just make any claim I want, provide no substantiation for it, and then tell others it's on them to prove me wrong and expect to be taken seriously? Sweet!

I'm still not seeing any population numbers being posted to back that up.

No need for me to post them. It's on you to prove me wrong, bud. Your paradigm, your rules.
 

JimboJones

Member
Halo 4 was dead to me the moment I popped it in to play 4 play local co-op online and the frame rate kept dropping.

What's a Halo game without 4 of your buddies playing with you on your couch?

It struggles with 2 player most of the time aswell, coupled with the odd bit of lag just makes the game really horrible to play at times.
 

Dukey

Banned
Can't speak for anyone else, but for me what happened was:

- sacrificed Bungie's wide-open battlegrounds for smaller areas with nicer graphics(fail)
- Got ride of horde mode in favor of some repetitive, lame Spartan Ops missions (blech)

They should have refined and improved Firefight mode instead of dumping it in favor of something that clearly didn't work.
 

Homeboyd

Member
-not cooking-
Why are you not at work?

GET BACK TO THE LAB.

Fyre, once again, excellent work. And there's still so much (as ghal and others have pointed out) that he didn't even go into in the OP.

Bring back Firefight please... :/
 

h00ters

Member
One of the biggest fuck ups that Reach also suffered from was the fact that the game had way too many playlists. Halo 2 had the perfect mix of casual, hardcore and objective based playlists, Halo 3 added a few more which caused a slight dilution in player numbers, but it wasn't until Reach that they completely screwed the pooch.

I don't bother playing any more because the number of players in any given playlist is so small that, nine times out of ten, I'm matching up against the exact same people every time I play.

Halo 2 had the best maps and weapons for competitive play. The addition of the BR spread in H3 and a reduction in the quality of maps is what started to make the game slide ever so slightly, and from that point on the series has just been a massive disappointment. And this is coming from a guy who travelled all around Australia up until the end of Reach helping to run our national competitive league.
 

Sendou

Member
Good job writing this down. I really liked Halo 3 but haven't been back since. From the looks of it I won't be until 343 proves they can handle their shit.
 
You forgot the character Assassination 343 has put out on this character.

I don't understand all the people holding up Hasley as some sort of honorable character that's been defamed.

She was always a narcissistic sociopath with a god complex, who kidnapped children from their homes and put them through physical and psychological hell to turn them into perfect soldiers.

It was only afterwards that she felt any form of guilt about it.

She was always an important character, but never a good person.

As for what transpired in the Spartan Ops seasons, it came off more as the corrupt UNSC trying to bury it's secrets. When Hasley realized that she could no longer trust the unchallenged and near-omnipresent governing force of the UNSC, she defected to group that could at the very least protect her and would keep her alive so long as she was useful.
 
People on forums also seem to dislike COD. They also thought the 2DS would bomb. Also think the Xbox One will bomb. Lots of forum folk like to hyperbole.

It's not hyperbole when I say Halo 4's peak population has dropped by over 90% since launch.

You and your friends can think whatever you want, the statistics don't lie.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I don't understand all the people holding up Hasley as some sort of honorable character that's been defamed.

She was always a narcissistic sociopath with a god complex, who kidnapped children from their homes and put them through physical and psychological hell to turn them into perfect soldiers.

It was only afterwards that she felt any form of guilt about it.

She was always an important character, but never a good person.

As for what transpired in the Spartan Ops seasons, it came off more as the corrupt UNSC trying to bury it's secrets. When Hasley realized that she could no longer trust the unchallenged and near-omnipresent governing force of the UNSC, she defected to group that could at the very least protect her and would keep her alive so long as she was useful.
It wasn't so much her but the events that surrounded her that ruined everything, mostly Palmer though, character assassination is the wrong term the universe around the character just got incredibly dumb.
 
What happened? The best Halo game was released. Everyone I know personaly agrees. Only on forums have I heard otherwise.

Now see that may be your opinion but the problem is everyone stopped playing it meaning it just isn't true. You won't have such good will when the next game requires a new console to play it. If Halo 5 goes in this direction you can kiss the IP goodbye.
 
As I said on Twitter, great job, and a good thread itself to make and have a discussion on.

Personally I find it hard to talk about the game, while constantly wanting to.
Halo 4 frustrates me to no end. The issues I feel it has and/or the things I don't like glare so strongly it makes it really hard to be positive about what 343 do next.

I still want to, because as others have said, I admire of the people there and want to respect any one else. But it's tough. A significant portion of the issues particular to my tastes (art style, quality of plot, narrative and writing, gameplay ambition) were significant let downs.
And then.. the Crimson Map Pack release happens. And something hilarious happens: everyone with the specializations code can download Crimson as if they have the map pack. For free. What? WHAT? Yep. Seems in their rush to get the specializations code out, Microsoft forgot that the software key that unlocked the specializations was the same one that unlocked the map packs for free download. Awwwkward. Okay, it's a fuck up though, they'll just fix it right?

Well, they did. But they did it in the worst way possible. Absolutely the WORST handling of a mistake I have seen, and destroyed absolutely any pretension in my mind (and other's minds) that 343 had any autonomy from Microsoft. So what did they do?

Lie through their fucking teeth.

They goofed. We understand humans develop games, so whatever. Patch it up. In less than 24 hours, we went from 343 employees, Microsoft employees, and Xbox Support acknowledging it was a fuckup to Microsoft outright pretending it was not actually a mistake at ALL. They invented a fake program called "14 Day Buy and Play" that supposedly ran at Halo 4's release (the term didn't even exist until that day), sent it out as a press release, and Kotaku and most other gaming sites happily regurgitated it as legitimate. So not only had Microsoft fucked up, they then proceeded to tell us no, they didn't screw up, they meant to do it all along.

They then issued a patch a week later that fixed the bug and took the free Crimson map pack away from the people that redeemed it. Hrmm, for something intended, strange they had to patch the game to end the trial period.

To make it even worse, 343 could have at least poked fun at the whole thing, or acknowledged the screw up was a screw up and they were letting people play it for a bit before taking it away. Instead, they posted the 14 Day Buy and Play press release directly on their website. With a straight face.

343 lost a lot of good will on that day, with a lot of people. It definitively set the tone people treated 343 with after that.
The amount of good will lost with the "cover-up" though is a bit hard to quantify, don't you think?
 
Halo 2 had the best maps and weapons for competitive play. The addition of the BR spread in H3 and a reduction in the quality of maps is what started to make the game slide ever so slightly, and from that point on the series has just been a massive disappointment. And this is coming from a guy who travelled all around Australia up until the end of Reach helping to run our national competitive league.

I don't think there's anybody on the planet that would disagree that Halo 2 had the best selection of maps in the franchise, even with clunkers like Colosseum and Burial Mounds in there dragging down the average.

That said, a lot of people have rose-colored glasses regarding the weapon balance in Halo 2. It was hardly perfect. Dual-wielding combined with SMG starts put an undo emphasis on dual-wielding, which brought an influx of chaotic spray-and-pray to the proceedings. Combine that with the noob combo, and outlandish aim-assist on the sniper that made 'swipe-sniping' and no-scoping easy for anybody with a pulse and functional thumbs, and Halo 2 lost a great deal of the shoot/grenade/melee balance that made Halo so satisfying.
 

Spawnling

Member
Nope. Halo was my staple MP game, and I haven't found another since. I've kind of been bouncing around XBLA games and some iPad games waiting for Destiny to land, which is what I hope will fill that void.

It seems I'm not the only one in this boat. Can't wait too see what happens with Destiny.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
I don't think there's anybody on the planet that would disagree that Halo 2 had the best selection of maps in the franchise, even with clunkers like Colosseum and Burial Mounds in there dragging down the average.

That said, a lot of people have rose-colored glasses regarding the weapon balance in Halo 2. It was hardly perfect. Dual-wielding combined with SMG starts put an undo emphasis on dual-wielding, which brought an influx of chaotic spray-and-pray to the proceedings. Combine that with the noob combo, and outlandish aim-assist on the sniper that made 'swipe-sniping' and no-scoping easy for anybody with a pulse and functional thumbs, and Halo 2 lost a great deal of the shoot/grenade/melee balance that made Halo so satisfying.

I halfway agree, still play 2 from time to time and its my favorite but did need a bit of balancing, just not by adding spread to the BR like Halo 3 did.
 
Good write-up Fyre, reminds me of decisions like launching without X marks for teammates but leaving something similar in as a perk.

There was a lot of hope going into this game, as a lot of people (myself included) were burned pretty hard on Reach. There was hope that after the years of complaints in Reach, the things to avoid would be readily apparent. Some of the first footage they released on Halo 4's multiplayer looked like it was taking things back to basics, one of the first gifs that was being thrown around in HaloGAF and heralded as a return to form was a simple BR duel between two Spartans.


There was a serious belief in 343's big entry, and we were happy with the snippet we've seen. Then, more previews came to light, questionable design choices were exposed, the belief had started cracking. Some HaloGAF folks ended up playing the game during some events, "Feels like Halo" they'd report, and hope would bounce back -- but with the doubt that it was simply the environment of their experience colouring their impressions.

As time was ticking down to release, it was getting difficult not to be doubtful of everything being shown. A progression system, with mandatory YOU GOT A KILL +EXP in the front and center of your view; sprint had gone from armour ability to a basic control option, making a further mess of Bumper Jumper perfection introduced in Halo 3; armour abilities made a comeback, with all the negative feedback given to the likes of jetpack in Reach they decided to bring it back and introduce the likes of Promethean Vision, giving you a wallhack at the tap of a button. These weren't even the most egregious changes, things like customized loadouts let you spawn with boltshots for a shotgun in your pocket, or plasma pistols to cause havoc to vehicle play. Proper weapon spawns were tossed by the wayside in favour of ordnance drops, both personal and global, which took most map control out of the equation. Then there's CTF, where flags are auto-grabbed and can't be dropped once touched, but for the time being you get a slightly more powerful pistol with infinite ammo that comes out of nowhere. All the while 343 wanted us to rest assured, "Trust us" I'd hear, "Storm before the calm".

Then it released, I scoured around to find a spot to break street date and gave it an honest shot. Campaign design felt more restrictive than before, Covenant combat was still fun but most of the Promethean encounters were tedious and the removal of campaign theater damaged the Halo speedrun community. Firefight, a pure distillation of Halo combat, was removed in favour of Spartan Ops which ended up being a mode of little consequence -- infinite lives, custom loadouts, basically large open maps to get a very barebones kind of campaign experience with anything resembling a challenge removed. Then multiplayer ended up being as disappointing as the previews led on, despite all belief that somehow all the things we read sounding like missteps would prove to harmonize into some magical package that we just couldn't grasp having just known bits and pieces of, it just didn't happen.

I had already been run through the mud with Reach, my hope couldn't be stretched any further that things would change. A couple weeks after picking it up I sold it off, never looking back.

This wasn't my first disappointment with 343 either, we had Halo Anniversary, the perfect opportunity to properly bring classic Halo multiplayer online. The announcement had me giddy with excitement until details came out that CE's multiplayer would be omitted entirely, replaced with a map pack for Reach. There was mixed messaging on why it turned out that way, be it not wanting to split the userbase of Reach, believing that the original multiplayer that put Halo on the map wouldn't translate to online play, or not having the manpower to do it. Either way, the big decade anniversary release had half the game taken out, and the long lasting half that had people playing it night after night for years before 2 came out. To refer back to the UU graph:


Anniversary is a single blip there. I played it for a weekend and had my fill of it, there's only so much you can do with a campaign. I'd still be playing it if it included multiplayer, instead these days I'm not playing Halo at all.

Needless to say, I don't hold 343 in high regard but even with the smallest of expectations they manage to disappoint. Over a year ago now they said they'd be consolidating the Halo 3's playlists, then said it would happen after they were done with the heavy lifting of 4, and when Halo 3 became free they recently came out and said they're just straight up not going to touch the playlists.

So 343 can say they've learned, and that going forward things are going to be different, but I have no more hope to give. Halo was the series that cemented that I had to get a 360 this gen, but that is no longer the case. They've just repeatedly shown that they can't match up to the level of quality that Halo deserves.
 
There seems to be a lot of focus on the competitive MP side of things. Personally i'm on the other side of the equation, i played halo a shit ton but only really casually. What i mean is i played the campaign and co-op and when i played MP it was only with friends.

Halo 4 was still a complete and utter failure. The campaign and the story were terrible, this is coming from someone who has won every halo campaign more times than i'm willing to admit. The story was confusing the encounters were less dynamic and just boring. The gunplay just didn't feel as satisfying. The music and atmosphere also just weren't on the same level as the previous games.

Splitscreen co-op suffered from frame rate issues and in general felt neglected. Features that were added in halo 3 were removed reducing the longevity of the games life for me.

MP felt nothing like what i remembered and the changes weren't for the better. I'm not a 'pro' and i don't like going online (playlists and the like are so dumb for a mulitplayer game) but a lot of the problems listed in this thread still resonate with me. You don't need to be hardcore to recognise the problems with this game.

I'm not sure the series can ever go back to what it was for me. Halo 3 was a little disappointing (mainly story wise) but i still loved the game and was still a huge fan of the franchise. Reach was a dropoff in quality but i still enjoyed it and in a way it wasn't sort of an offshoot so i was looking forward to going back to playing as the MC.

Halo 4 though has tarnished the franchise for me and i really doubt i can go back to being a fan. Halo 5 would have to be fantastic to get me back on board but even then i doubt i would be a fan like i was (and i know my friends are the same).

Can't wait for that gears thread as i feel the same way about it.

This wasn't my first disappointment with 343 either, we had Halo Anniversary, the perfect opportunity to properly bring classic Halo multiplayer online. The announcement had me giddy with excitement until details came out that CE's multiplayer would be omitted entirely, replaced with a map pack for Reach. There was mixed messaging on why it turned out that way, be it not wanting to split the userbase of Reach, believing that the original multiplayer that put Halo on the map wouldn't translate to online play, or not having the manpower to do it. Either way, the big decade anniversary release had half the game taken out, and the long lasting half that had people playing it night after night for years before 2 came out. To refer back to the UU graph:

Anniversary is a single blip there. I played it for a weekend and had my fill of it, there's only so much you can do with a campaign. I'd still be playing it if it included multiplayer, instead these days I'm not playing Halo at all.

The remake not including MP is still such a huge disappointment for me. One of my favorite games being remade and they decide to just not give us half the game. Strange decision that yet again makes me lose faith in 343. Also playing the campaign in the anniversary reminded just how much i prefer it to halo reach and to a much greater extent halo 4.
 

Hindle

Banned
The beta for Halo 2014 should be interesting next year. 343 have a real chance to bring the fans into the designing of the multiplayer, hell just let us design it.
 

Ramirez

Member
What's frustrating is that the base gameplay in Halo 4 is great, the shooting is better than it's ever been. There's just so much non Halo dog shit on top of it, that it ruins the entire thing.

I have no faith 343 will pull back on their CoD inspired garbage to be honest, though I'd love to be wrong. This went from the only game series I played, to me not even thinking about it, and that's sad to me.
 

Korten

Banned
I do feel the MP was weak, but honestly I loved the Single Player, beat it alone on legendary and with a friend in local co-op on legendary. So much fun. More so since I'm a huge Halo EU fan so the story made a lot of sense.

People who also claim retcons are talking out of their asses and didn't know much about the universe in the first place and just call them retcons because they're out of touch with the whole Halo universe. :/

Hell, the intro cinematic despite showing all of them wearing the same armor already was confirmed that it doesn't look like that in reality, but to show the connection to Halo 4. If it wasn't, than why did in Forward Unto Dawn they used the earlier armor he was wearing if the Halo 4 armor is the real version? Because the intro wasn't 100% canon. :/
 
This.

There seems to be a real prevailing notion here that the only way to "save" Halo is going back to catering to "pro players" or whatever only, when in reality that little niche of players is a small fraction of the daily playerbase that they so desperately care about maintaining.

No
 
One of the biggest fuck ups that Reach also suffered from was the fact that the game had way too many playlists. Halo 2 had the perfect mix of casual, hardcore and objective based playlists, Halo 3 added a few more which caused a slight dilution in player numbers, but it wasn't until Reach that they completely screwed the pooch.

I don't bother playing any more because the number of players in any given playlist is so small that, nine times out of ten, I'm matching up against the exact same people every time I play.

Halo 2 had the best maps and weapons for competitive play. The addition of the BR spread in H3 and a reduction in the quality of maps is what started to make the game slide ever so slightly, and from that point on the series has just been a massive disappointment. And this is coming from a guy who travelled all around Australia up until the end of Reach helping to run our national competitive league.

This is the thing that boggles my mind. Leading into the release of Halo 4 343i was criticizing the breadth of playlists that Reach had and how it detracted from the health of the MP game. Reach had around 16 MP playlists before 343i slowly tuned it down, iirc to about 12. Enter Halo 4 and we have nearly 16 playlists with so few players in each that your best choice is to enter one of two or three playlists with a significant population. Halo 2 had the perfect playlist balance. Team Objective, Team Slayer, FFA, BTB, BTB Objective, 2v2 & 1v1 (we also wouldn't need both 1v1 and 2v2) AND Clan matches! So the right number of playlists is around six. Clans should be a staple on an OS level, but at the very least should get implementation into MS's primary competitive game. There is no damned need for there to be separate playlists for all the objective playlists.

The voting mechanism for map/gametype is also lame. I prefer Halo 3's system by far. We should just search a given playlist and get a single veto without knowing what will replace the map/game we veto. I would also like there to be a return to duel wielding, it added to the sandbox while maintaining the level of fair competition. Taking duel wielding away because it is too complicated for new players, while adding all if the random factors into multiplayer they did in Reach and 4, doesn't make sense.

Maybe the next Halo game will return to the glory past, but honestly, I'm not counting on it. I expect to need to find a replacement to Halo. And don't take this post the wrong way, I actually enjoyed Halo 4 a ton. I played nearly 3,000 games. The game just didn't belong in the pantheon of Halo games. It should have been releases under a different brand or as a side story with new characters other than Chief. Blue team from the books, or something. This game does not belong in the main numerical series.

343i released Halo 4 as a mainline game would be like if The Pokemon Company had been the company behind Jade Cocoon and called it Pokemon 2. Or Nintendo had made BLUR and released it as Mario Kart 2. Konami made Resident Evil 6 and called it Silent Hill. You guys get the point.

If 343i does decide to remake Halo 2 they had better do the game justice and not ruin what is in my mind the best Halo MP by far. I wouldn't care if they changed the comparatively worse campaign as long as it got better. Do me a favor 343i, if you are going to make a game with the Halo moniker and want it in the main plotline with the Chief make it play like the previous games. If you want to break things, or just change things for what you feel is the better, only do it in a side story or separate arc that is not a primary release. That is why I feel ODST and Reach are exempt from so much criticism for breaking the Halo sandbox. But ffs, Halo 4 was supposed to be a continuation of Halo 3, not a futuristic rendition of Call of Duty.
 
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