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[lastflowers]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Kin

they were contractually obligated to deliver it. The device was also crippled because, despite contractual obligation to deliver the device, the cell phone plans included costly dataplans which was not the original intention.

They also didn't leave the industry afterwards. This is a stupid example that just shows they've spent money on a failing product.

 

[infiniteheteroskdasticity]

Samsung historically hasn't focused on media and software like Sony and that's their biggest gap. If they were smart and serious I would say Samsung buying Xbox IP and partnering with Valve by putting Steam OS on it would make a lot of sense.

I'm really skeptical Samsung would be interested. Sure, they have the money but Xbox by itself isn't really a good investment from a financial perspective. Samsung have no history or deep interest in the gaming business and I don't see them buying into it via Xbox just because they can. It would have to be somebody with an interest in keeping console gaming healthy that buys it out. The most likely suitor would be a PE financed management buyout/spinoff with Microsoft keeping a stake in the business.

 

[spwolf]

Nokia was already on the cusp of a downward spiral when he took over, and their direction at the time he came aboard wouldn't have fared much better. Hell, they were content with running freaking Symbian on their phones until Elop stirred them in another direction in 2011. Whether Windows Phone was the best decision is up for debate. People always conveniently leave out the fact that things are actually looking up for Nokia right now (http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/29/5041528/nokia-q3-2013-financial-report) and moving forward.

He destroyed the value of Nokia so Microsoft can buy them cheaply.

In my mind, this was criminal.

 

[spwolf]

Samsung historically hasn't focused on media and software like Sony and that's their biggest gap. If they were smart and serious I would say Samsung buying Xbox IP and partnering with Valve by putting Steam OS on it would make a lot of sense.

wait, why would they buy Xbox only to put Steam OS on it? Steams OS will need years of work to come close to where Xbox is today.

Samsung wouldnt buy Xbox simply because it is not profitable.

I could see some investment company buying it, turning it profitable and then selling it for 2x the cost.

 

[QaaQer]

wait, why would they buy Xbox only to put Steam OS on it? Steams OS will need years of work to come close to where Xbox is today.

Samsung wouldnt buy Xbox simply because it is not profitable.

I could see some investment company buying it, turning it profitable and then selling it for 2x the cost.

.

And it might be good for gamers too. A company whose only focus is in being a games company won't have to put up with all the bullshit that the xbox divsion currently has to. They could focus on gaming and only that.

That applies to other parts of MS as well. I am positive that if the DOJ had broken them up in 2000, and Windows became its own company, the Windows OS would be leagues better than it is now because their focus would be on making the best OS they could, not leveraging it to sell smartphones/tablets/games consoles/etc.

 

[Blowdrum]

I want to see a Google console. Would it suck? Probably, but I still want to see one.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

I am positive that if the DOJ had broken them up in 2000, and Windows became its own company, the Windows OS would be leagues better than it is now because their focus would be on making the best OS they could, not leveraging it to sell smartphones/tablets/games consoles/etc.

Questionable. Don't the different divisions in MS (or any company, for that matter) benefit directly and indirectly from financial results and tax write-offs of other departments? Plus that would depend on a myriad of other factors.

Put it this way, if that happened back then, I don't think the Xbox would even exist, and some of MS's less successful ventures wouldn't of happened either. Where else but Windows did they draw the $4+ billion to cover the losses on initial and continued Xbox R&D/marketing/distribution etc. for so long? If Windows was its own company, I doubt they'd of contributed nearly as much to over those costs than they did (IF they did).

 

[MrMephistoX]

wait, why would they buy Xbox only to put Steam OS on it? Steams OS will need years of work to come close to where Xbox is today.

Samsung wouldnt buy Xbox simply because it is not profitable.

I could see some investment company buying it, turning it profitable and then selling it for 2x the cost.

They aren't married married to Microsoft so partnering with Valve to exploit IP like Halo would make more sense than continuing to manufacture Xbox One as a closed system. They could just do some sort of cross buy and steam integration like Valve did with Portal 2 on PS3.

 

[iamshadowlark]

They're not getting out of devices anytime soon. They just dropped $7.2 billion dollars on acquiring Nokia's phone business for God's sake.

Who said anything about "devices"? The guy was very specific in which device he would faze out.

 

[Momentary]

Stockholders really want them to get out of the gaming hardware business since they haven't made a dime for n that area.

 

[Biker19]

I read this as you're okay with a complacent Sony that will charge you $699 for PS5.

You truly think that Sony can afford another big screw up like that, effecting their entire company financially in the process?

Take a look at the current PS4 price in countries where Xbox One got delayed.
Yeah, suddenly competition is good. And what makes you think Sony would continue with PS+ without Xbox Live as a competition?

That's proof that competition is needed? Prices on stuff like home gaming consoles & games have always been higher in other countries other than the USA. The prices on Xbox One are even more higher than the PS4 in other countries.

 

[jcm]

The issue is that tablets and smartphones are quickly becoming the standard device for consumers (which is why Apple and Google are having the success they are).

The Xbox being an all in one machine is essentially Microsoft's Maginot Line, a defense for a potential attack from Sony, only to be flanked by Apple\Google.

The problem is that it's a worthless victory. The Xbox isn't going to move people away from their mobile devices, which is where the battle really was won.

Xbox One isn't going to get people locked into the Windows AppStore ecosystem (which is what MS really wants), if Windows 8 couldn't do it, a game console won't

I made this same analogy a bit back. I think it's really apropos. The Battle for the Living Room is being won by the smartphones and tablets people are looking at while they watch TV.

 

[Odrion]

Yet the core audience is still there as 3DS continues to thrive. Clearly the market for dedicated game consoles is still alive and well regardless if these generic do everything media devices claim they can play games. It's like saying since there are flash games that people can play on their PC, the hardcore PC gaming market is going to collapse and become less relevant.

Nintendo has been making an extreme effort to keep pushing software, price cuts, and revisions on the 3DS, despite being having a major dominance on the dedicated handheld market. Why is this? Wouldn't Nintendo rest on their laurels and abuse their customer base now that the Vita is no longer in the picture?

It's like Nintendo is trying to compete against someone that's not Sony!

 

[tino]

Wouldn't be all that shocked if he went through with it; especially if he sees no viable ROI (short or long term) in the future for Xbox & Bing. If Microsoft wants a bigger bottom line, cut the losses and invest R&D towards where the money is. This wouldn't be the craziest thing that has happened in the business world though I wouldn't exactly consider selling the Xbox crazy.

The entire career of Elop consist of preparing the companies he was running at the time to be sold for financial gain. There is no way Elop won't sell a part of MS for higher stock price. Just look at his fucking history.

 

[SporeCrawler]

I'm really skeptical Samsung would be interested. Sure, they have the money but Xbox by itself isn't really a good investment from a financial perspective. Samsung have no history or deep interest in the gaming business and I don't see them buying into it via Xbox just because they can. It would have to be somebody with an interest in keeping console gaming healthy that buys it out. The most likely suitor would be a PE financed management buyout/spinoff with Microsoft keeping a stake in the business.

samsung aladdin boy?
Samsung saturn?

 

[tino]

I want to see a Google console. Would it suck? Probably, but I still want to see one.

Google's own setup is too different from Xbox's to take afvantage of xbox or generate any synergy. That was the reason why google didn't buy Skype.

If Google (or Apple) want a console, they would make one themselves.

 

[zoukka]

Elop is the angel of death.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

they were contractually obligated to deliver it. The device was also crippled because, despite contractual obligation to deliver the device, the cell phone plans included costly dataplans which was not the original intention.

They also didn't leave the industry afterwards. This is a stupid example that just shows they've spent money on a failing product.

Stop being so unnecessarily defensive of your company. It was a terrible business decision to acquire Danger in the first place, they spent over a billion dollars, their inability to produce a timely product made them very late to the market, and then internal corporate politics killed it before it even had a chance in the market. In other words, typical MS. I might add that Windows Phone is going down the exact same path, because MS basically sent it out to die years late and without any kind of vision to support any argument for it's existence.

It sure seems like Xbone is suffering from the same fate except that Sony is forcing their hand and make them launch it before it's ready instead of years late. The lack of vision, the billions spent, the internal corporate politics, the reliance on focus groups creating a product no one wants, it's all classic MS bungling and now the Xbox division is possibly on the chopping block. Xbox might very well be the next Kin.

 

[Memino]

Is there a chart with reliable data showing microsoft's profits/losses in the xbox business?

 

[Terrell]

It's called a write off. Microsoft spent their way into the industry, and they knew this would be the case when entering it. The past doesn't matter at this point. What matters is the fact that the division has been profitable for the past half decade, and whether it will remain profitable in the near and distant future.

This attitude comes from a fundamental misunderstanding of why companies chew write-offs or that they magically disappear from the balance sheets after every fiscal year.

Companies take write-offs when they think there is a chance to recover the money spent in later fiscal cycles within a certain timeframe.

They haven't. And it's been 10 years. With a new console coming out that's likely to trip hard out of the gate and ensure another 5 years minimum of STILL choking on that write-off, or potentially making it even WORSE. All while other MS business sectors are suffering.

To get investors and top brass on board with a write-off, there was undoubtedly an expectation of revenue to off-set it. No one should be naive enough to think that it's not weighing heavily on investors that we're 10+ years in and they have NO positive returns on the venture. You think they're going to be confident that it will EVER happen, when each new generation digs the hole a little deeper and adding to the amount needed for recovery of those spent dollars?

Investors have every right to want to axe the Xbox division, and they get louder about it year after year. Eventually, something will have to give. Either the Xbox division goes, or possibly the investors will.

 

[jcm]

Is there a chart with reliable data showing microsoft's profits/losses in the xbox business?

No, there isn't.

 

[killer rin]

How the hell can Elop be a potential CEO for any company? Just look at his Nokia track record:



I know Ballmer has been an awful CEO for MS, but even he has had more success then Elop.

I'unno about that. Going off what was in his contract he was pretty spot on with what he did in Nokia.
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetel...izing-elop-to-tank-stock-and-then-get-rescue/
http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/24/4...en-elops-contract-with-nokia-paid-him-to-fail

Investors have every right to want to axe the Xbox division, and they get louder about it year after year. Eventually, something will have to give. Either the Xbox division goes, or possibly the investors will.

When Investors go, more will come to take their place. Thats how the stock market goes. And if they don't come back, Microsoft then merges stock together to get rid of the excess like many companies do all the time. In fact, I'm willing to bet somewhere deep, deep down Microsoft would love it if all the big guys were to sell off their stocks because it would make it cheaper for them to go private in the future.

 

[Guevara]

Is there a chart with reliable data showing microsoft's profits/losses in the xbox business?

No and that's kind of the point.

 

[AniHawk]

it would be interesting if xbox spins itself off into its own entity. but when it comes to microsoft selling the business, i'll believe it when i see it.

if there is serious consideration regarding the division being sold, part of me wonders if all the drm stuff was an attempt to appease the microsoft higher ups so that it would make loads of profit from the start. the reversal on almost everything might not sit too well with those people if that was the case.

 

[Ntsouls]

Samsung...Apple...Google...Amazon.

All companies I could see handling it well.

MSs prob is they bleed money. They shell out truckloads of cash to have a map pack first, or a 3rd party game for a year. It's ludicrous. If any other company did stuff like this, like Nintendo or Sega before it. They'd have died out in the 90s.

They should focus on utilizing the properties they already own! Look at Titanfall. They already own that mech game. Like wtf is that!
Then theres the Panzer Dragoon spin off w/e. They own Crimson Skies.

They only time they need this amount of investment or a launch is when they are trying to overcome a brand new territory.
Japan. You invest in games for that.
China. You invest in a way to make money there.

But America? All you need to do is announce it. Have your own studios make some awesome stuff. Then boom.

 

[Nightengale]

A refutal from MS PR over this news means nothing.

The main point of a piece like this is for the Elop camp to get the news out to major investors that he'd be willing to play ball with the current investor climate, of the ones who think MS should bow down from non-essential consumer side to keep himself in the CEO race.

The core investors have their own internal ways of finding out whether or not this leak is legit, or some bullshit Bloomberg pulled from their ass.

With that being said, lol Elop as CEO.

They should focus on utilizing the properties they already own! Look at Titanfall. They already own that mech game. Like wtf is that!

They don't 'own' it. All they own is exclusivity of the first game.

What that means is that Titanfall is a money-sink for MS. They're keeping it close to their chest because it can move a shit-ton of consoles, but from the software itself, it's more likely than not that MS is actually losing more money than what they're gaining from Titanfall. A lot more.

 

[HokieJoe]

He destroyed the value of Nokia so Microsoft can buy them cheaply.

In my mind, this was criminal.

Destoyed the value of Nokia? Lol, they'd done a bang-up job of that before Elop got there.

 

[killer rin]

They don't 'own' it. All they own is exclusivity of the first game.

He was talking about MechAssault... though they sold that off years ago

 

[Jac_Solar]

I'd love to see Rare back at Nintendo again... my god!

Not only that but even some of their other studios moving to other platforms would be nice.

Rare is just like any other random company -- none of the old people are there anymore it seems like, and its guidelines and infrastructure have most likely changed. What makes you think that they could do better than any other company at making a game?

My point is, the likelihood of them making a good, great or bad game is the same as with any random company at this point.

 

[Nightengale]

He was talking about MechAssault... though they sold that off years ago

Argh, completely misread his sentence.

 

[Joni]

Nokia was already on the cusp of a downward spiral when he took over, and their direction at the time he came aboard wouldn't have fared much better. Hell, they were content with running freaking Symbian on their phones until Elop stirred them in another direction in 2011. Whether Windows Phone was the best decision is up for debate. People always conveniently leave out the fact that things are actually looking up for Nokia right now (http://www.theverge.com/2013/10/29/5041528/nokia-q3-2013-financial-report) and moving forward.

On the cusp of a downward spiral? They were one of the biggest forces in the smartphone market.

 

[Guerilla]

Elop was a Microsoft trojan horse, you can't judge him by his Nokia record, he purposely sabotaged various Nokia projects to reach his goal.

 

[Quasar]

Destoyed the value of Nokia? Lol, they'd done a bang-up job of that before Elop got there.

They'd be in even worse shape now if the move to windows wasnt made. And I don't think the other option of being yet another android vendor would have been better for them.

 

[Terrell]

When Investors go, more will come to take their place. Thats how the stock market goes. And if they don't come back, Microsoft then merges stock together to get rid of the excess like many companies do all the time. In fact, I'm willing to bet somewhere deep, deep down Microsoft would love it if all the big guys were to sell off their stocks because it would make it cheaper for them to go private in the future.

There's not an infinite number of investors who will buy at the market value the stock currently sits at. If that were true, the stock price would never ever drop.
When investors sell in large enough numbers, the stock price sinks like a stone. And that's something no company can afford.
What you're suggesting of MS is a dangerous gamble that could cost them investors, and no, MS won't go private. That's like throwing yourself on your own sword and stifles growth opportunities. It also runs the risk of making a company very insular.

On the cusp of a downward spiral? They were one of the biggest forces in the smartphone market.

Hmmm, I wonder what happened between 2007 and 2008 to cause a marketshare fall? It's a mystery.

 

[greg400]

Nintendo has been making an extreme effort to keep pushing software, price cuts, and revisions on the 3DS, despite being having a major dominance on the dedicated handheld market. Why is this? Wouldn't Nintendo rest on their laurels and abuse their customer base now that the Vita is no longer in the picture?

It's like Nintendo is trying to compete against someone that's not Sony!

You mean things Nintendo has done every generation prior to this supposed generic mobile threat? Not a very sound argument.

 

[2MF]

Hmmm, I wonder what happened between 2007 and 2008 to cause a marketshare fall? It's a mystery.

Samsung made the Apple 3G? That explains it I guess.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

When Investors go, more will come to take their place. Thats how the stock market goes. And if they don't come back, Microsoft then merges stock together to get rid of the excess like many companies do all the time. In fact, I'm willing to bet somewhere deep, deep down Microsoft would love it if all the big guys were to sell off their stocks because it would make it cheaper for them to go private in the future.

I'm not sure how delusional you need to be to think that a company like MS could be taken private, or would even want to be.

 

[tino]

Destoyed the value of Nokia? Lol, they'd done a bang-up job of that before Elop got there.

Nokia could have turned around if they hire a different CEO and go android. Look at Xiaomi's exponential market grow in just 3 years.

Again this was mostly Nokia board's fault not Elop's fault, Elop doesn't know anything about the non MS ecosystems.

 

[Omnistalgic]

Give it to valve or partner with sony...

 

[Doffen]

That's proof that competition is needed? Prices on stuff like home gaming consoles & games have always been higher in other countries other than the USA. The prices on Xbox One are even more higher than the PS4 in other countries.

The PS4 was cheaper in Norway when Xbox One was planed to be released, but now:

CDON X1: 3990 NOK - PS4: 4299 NOK
Platekomapniet: X1: 3999 NOK - PS4: 3999 NOK

The initial price for PS4 was 3499 NOK back in august, while Xbox One was priced 3899 NOK by Microsoft Norway.

So yes, this is proof that competition is needed.

 

[Biker19]

The PS4 was cheaper in Norway when Xbox One was planed to be released, but now:

CDON X1: 3990 NOK - PS4: 4299 NOK
Platekomapniet: X1: 3999 NOK - PS4: 3999 NOK

The initial price for PS4 was 3499 NOK back in august, while Xbox One was priced 3899 NOK by Microsoft Norway.

So yes, this is proof that competition is needed.

It depends what country the product sells in. You need more than one country to make a valid point.

 

[Odrion]

You mean things Nintendo has done every generation prior to this supposed generic mobile threat? Not a very sound argument.

When has Nintendo cut the price of a handheld model this drastically in this short of a lifespan ($250 at launch, a $130 model now)? I want to see a year during the Gameboy era that is as strong as Nintendo's 2013 output.

 

[Garrett 2U]

It depends what country the product sells in. You need more than one country to make a valid point.

Wait... Just to be clear... You're arguing that a monopoly of the gaming industry would be better for the consumer?

 

[Odrion]

Although Nintendo did always support their handheld, even when they had a monopoly, because you're not just fighting for the handheld space: You're fighting for the consumer's attention. Same thing these consoles are doing. A tablet/smartphone is not a console, but people are still spending their free time playing them over a console. Still though, half of what they did on the GBA were SNES ports and their GBC support wasn't stellar either. Hell, I'd argue that Nintendo's 3DS support (announced or otherwise) is even stronger than their DS support, and they actually HAD competition in the handheld space then.

edit: Also looking at how fast mobile technology increases in power, laughing off Android/Mobile based consoles is pretty shortsighted. Amazon and Apple are not the Ouya company.

Then there's also Valve, and who knows what the Steam Machine will do.

Point is, there's plenty things Sony would need to compete against if Microsoft leaves the console space. If Sony tries to pull off that $600 PS3 bullshit again, consumers will find an alternative (ie every other electronic device that is begging for their attention.)

 

[Doffen]

It depends what country the product sells in.

Yes, it depends on the fact that there are no real competition.

You need more than one country to make a valid point.

It's the same situation in Sweden and Denmark. So there you go.

It bothers me that you really have problem with believing in the existence of marketing abuse when it comes to this product. They all do it. Nintendo did it with Wii U, yet failed miserably. Wii U is almost half the price of what it launched as here in Scandinavia.
Xbox 360 did it. and PS3, well that one was sick at launch.

 

[harSon]

On the cusp of a downward spiral? They were one of the biggest forces in the smartphone market.

Yeah, Elop managed to tank the company in a quarter. This is the equivalent of people blaming Obama for the economic downturn in his first year of office.

Nokia could have turned around if they hire a different CEO and go android. Look at Xiaomi's exponential market grow in just 3 years.

Again this was mostly Nokia board's fault not Elop's fault, Elop doesn't know anything about the non MS ecosystems.

Moving to Windows Phone was actually a logically sound move. If you move to Android, you're competing with pretty much every mobile manufacturer on the planet while conceding a head start in the proccess, but moving over to Windows Phone gave their devices a unique attribute and Microsoft's advertising machine.

 

[Imperfected]

Are you saying Obama's in the running to be the next CEO? What does he think about the X-Box?!

 

[harSon]

Are you saying Obama's in the running to be the next CEO? What does he think about the X-Box?!

No, I'm saying it's ridiculous to suggest that a nose dive occurring a quarter following Elop's hiring is the result of his policies. He's not the one who doubled down on Symbian in 2010 after every other manufacturer abandoned ship for Android. He was handed a ship that was perfectly in tact and seemingly plush, but moments away from crashing into an iceberg. The policies and devices in development had to run their course before he could take action.

 

[Joni]

Yeah, Elop managed to tank the company in a quarter. This is the equivalent of people blaming Obama for the economic downturn in his first year of office.

The drop coincides with his major decision to move to Windows Phone. Until then he had two quarters where there was growth.

 

[Biker19]

Wait... Just to be clear... You're arguing that a monopoly of the gaming industry would be better for the consumer?

No, I never said that at all.

It's the same situation in Sweden and Denmark. So there you go.

It bothers me that you really have problem with believing in the existence of marketing abuse when it comes to this product. They all do it. Nintendo did it with Wii U, yet failed miserably. Wii U is almost half the price of what it launched as here in Scandinavia.
Xbox 360 did it. and PS3, well that one was sick at launch.

I never even posted about Sweden & Denmark. I was out for a while.