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Jim Sterlings PS4 Top Ten(MS PR wont talk to him?)

S

Solid Samus

Banned
unbias said:
Meh, I'm not a fan of the series, but I have friends I play them with, and thought MW3 was pretty good as a casual FPS player.
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yeah I'd argue that based off of the quality of multiplayer map designs alone MW3 is the best post-CoD3 game in the entire series
 
F

Faustek

Member
unbias said:
FTA:

Overall a good read.
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These days, the gaming press doesn’t hold nearly as much interest for a lot of them as overnight YouTube stars who set up a video feed from a basement somewhere and blew the doors off IGN and Machinima’s video traffic combined on a budget of about $300… and who are likely to be a lot more easily swayed by gifts and attention from the people who make their favorite games than us jaded jerks in the press.
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A really valid concern but these "overnight" stars are the ones easiest to forget. Reminds me of a discussion about Boogie2988 and his invitation to NYC for the Sony event and next week to MS event. It's pretty easy to spot him as a genuine consumer advocate and if he turned "Blue" just because of "living the dream" this weekend I believe it'll be easy to spot since he is such a transparent guy(meaning that in a good way). But others that just suckle on the teeth of the PR machine...well no real damage has happened to them yet, they will always have a rabid fanbase of fanboys that refuses to find faults in them no matter how obvious it is. But it's really funny to see the commenting history of some on Polygon how they have gone from fellating Gies to start questioning him.

antitrop said:
Why does this tweet have chromatic aberration? :p
Click to expand...

One is small and cuddly the other is large and cuddly, two different focal points meeting somewhere awesome creating a disturbance in the visible light spectrum? Yeah I lost myself
 
E

EmptySpace

Banned
Turin Turambar said:
I don't know about you, but I like good games and I dislike bad games.
Therefore if I like a game or not, that's a good indicator if it's good or bad.

What's the theoretical case when you play a game and say "Mmmm this game is real good. I don't like it"? Supposing you like every genre (as you should, if you are a game journalist).
Click to expand...

that's the whole point of my post. being a gamer does not mean you play ever game in every genre, which means a single reviewer shouldn't bear upon the responsibility and burden of trying to review a lot of games in a ton of genres. we are going off-topic, and i've already explained what the problems with single-reviewer reviews are, especially the problem of people taking the reviews as facts, affecting purchasing decisions, and even spreading misinformation and negativity based upon the said reviews.

it's okay to take those things as opinions, but most people don't. they see a score, that's it. they read the review, they take them as if they were absolute truths despite players saying otherwise. it's okay to read reviews and make up your own opinions of them, but they're being taken as the standard of the game's quality. a lot of reviews gloss over a lot of things simply because the reviewer isn't into the genre (again, in the case of gran turismo). some reviews go into more detail about the subsystems of a game's mechanics, simply because they enjoy the shooter genre.

it isn't about diversity of opinion, it's about opinions which vary greatly in detail, understanding, and information about certain games but their scores/opinions are treated as equally across all genres and all games. i'd take a gtplanet review of gran turismo more seriously than ign's, but people don't see it that way. they see ign doesn't like the game, therefore it's bad. it doesn't matter whether the reviewer is well-versed in the game or the genre, and that's why player impressions here on gaf are way better than taking a single reviewer out there. again, it's already off-topic the way it is, and i've gotten my point across so many times.

on-topic, although that's my reason why i wouldn't want sterling to review games, i highly doubt that's what ms pr actually likes to imply.
 
K

Kingbrave

Member
EmptySpace said:
. i'd take a gtplanet review of gran turismo more seriously than ign's, but people don't see it that way. they see ign doesn't like the game, therefore it's bad. it doesn't matter whether the reviewer is well-versed in the game or the genre, and that's why player impressions here on gaf are way better than taking a single reviewer out there. again, it's already off-topic the way it is, and i've gotten my point across so many times.
.
Click to expand...

I would think that a site called gt planet would be more biased to giving a positive review of a game. You shouldn't just trust one review anyway.
 
U

unbias

Member
EmptySpace said:
that's the whole point of my post. being a gamer does not mean you play ever game in every genre, which means a single reviewer shouldn't bear upon the responsibility and burden of trying to review a lot of games in a ton of genres. we are going off-topic, and i've already explained what the problems with single-reviewer reviews are, especially the problem of people taking the reviews as facts, affecting purchasing decisions, and even spreading misinformation and negativity based upon the said reviews.

it's okay to take those things as opinions, but most people don't. they see a score, that's it. they read the review, they take them as if they were absolute truths despite players saying otherwise. it's okay to read reviews and make up your own opinions of them, but they're being taken as the standard of the game's quality. a lot of reviews gloss over a lot of things simply because the reviewer isn't into the genre (again, in the case of gran turismo). some reviews go into more detail about the subsystems of a game's mechanics, simply because they enjoy the shooter genre.

it isn't about diversity of opinion, it's about opinions which vary greatly in detail, understanding, and information about certain games but their scores/opinions are treated as equally across all genres and all games. i'd take a gtplanet review of gran turismo more seriously than ign's, but people don't see it that way. they see ign doesn't like the game, therefore it's bad. it doesn't matter whether the reviewer is well-versed in the game or the genre, and that's why player impressions here on gaf are way better than taking a single reviewer out there. again, it's already off-topic the way it is, and i've gotten my point across so many times.

on-topic, although that's my reason why i wouldn't want sterling to review games, i highly doubt that's what ms pr actually likes to imply.
Click to expand...

I see a lot of subjective opinion in this, but nothing objectively correct... You can say many people take reviews as facts, but that is an unprovable and you cant prove a negative either. I mean honestly, you sound like some developer who is bitter at the idea that he gave a game, he didnt like, a low score.
 
K

Kerned

Banned
EmptySpace said:
it's okay to take those things as opinions, but most people don't. they see a score, that's it. they read the review, they take them as if they were absolute truths despite players saying otherwise.
Click to expand...

I think you're wrong on this. Most people understand that reviews are opinions, because pretty much every review ever written is an opinion, and that's an objective fact. :) If a person is regarding a review as an "absolute truth" it's because they lack a basic understanding of what a review is.
 
LollipoPReapeR

LollipoPReapeR

Member
EmptySpace said:
that's the whole point of my post. being a gamer does not mean you play ever game in every genre, which means a single reviewer shouldn't bear upon the responsibility and burden of trying to review a lot of games in a ton of genres. we are going off-topic, and i've already explained what the problems with single-reviewer reviews are, especially the problem of people taking the reviews as facts, affecting purchasing decisions, and even spreading misinformation and negativity based upon the said reviews.

it's okay to take those things as opinions, but most people don't. they see a score, that's it. they read the review, they take them as if they were absolute truths despite players saying otherwise. it's okay to read reviews and make up your own opinions of them, but they're being taken as the standard of the game's quality. a lot of reviews gloss over a lot of things simply because the reviewer isn't into the genre (again, in the case of gran turismo). some reviews go into more detail about the subsystems of a game's mechanics, simply because they enjoy the shooter genre.

it isn't about diversity of opinion, it's about opinions which vary greatly in detail, understanding, and information about certain games but their scores/opinions are treated as equally across all genres and all games. i'd take a gtplanet review of gran turismo more seriously than ign's, but people don't see it that way. they see ign doesn't like the game, therefore it's bad. it doesn't matter whether the reviewer is well-versed in the game or the genre, and that's why player impressions here on gaf are way better than taking a single reviewer out there. again, it's already off-topic the way it is, and i've gotten my point across so many times.

on-topic, although that's my reason why i wouldn't want sterling to review games, i highly doubt that's what ms pr actually likes to imply.
Click to expand...


Reviews are interesting to read but never really have affected my decisions be it for just videogames or something else like movies. And this is coming from a guy who only recently just got into games so I am pretty much an 'average' consumer
 
M

mechphree

Member
Kingbrave said:
I would think that a site called gt planet would be more biased to giving a positive review of a game. You shouldn't just trust one review anyway.
Click to expand...


What he is saying is he would trust a website that has a specific interest in the genre then some random ign guy who is probably reviewing a game with either no interest in the genre or type of game. I look at it like this, if I wanted a review on what type of cars are good performance wise, I'd check out people who specialize in cars and their performance for an opinion. Wouldn't go to some random person on the street who may not be as informed.
 
M

mechphree

Member
LollipoPReapeR said:
Reviews are interesting to read but never really have affected my decisions be it for just videogames or something else like movies. And this is coming from a guy who only recently just got into games so I am pretty much an 'average' consumer
Click to expand...


I think we shouldn't take one review as the gods honest truth end all be all. What I can say though is if i see something that across the board has received terrible scores and people say you should avoid it I would loose interest in it. But their are certain games I know I like that don't get as good review scores but I buy anyway.
 
U

unbias

Member
mechphree said:
What he is saying is he would trust a website that has a specific interest in the genre then some random ign guy who is probably reviewing a game with either no interest in the genre or type of game. I look at it like this, if I wanted a review on what type of cars are good performance wise, I'd check out people who specialize in cars and their performance for an opinion. Wouldn't go to some random person on the street who may not be as informed.
Click to expand...

Ya but a car is a product with pretty clear defined definitions of good vs bad. Games are like books, movies, and sports; you will always find different perspectives and opinions.
 
S

Savitar

Member
There really needs to be better forms of communication in the industry. Sadly that's easier said than done when any company tries to control the message and dictate it fully. Unfortunately what can be done to combat such actions when they're the one in control?
 
A

ampere

Member
EmptySpace said:
running with an unfunny post once confronted with what's wrong with your reviews. keep up the shtick.
Click to expand...

Hm, it's one thing to write something disconnected from reality, but it's another thing to still go with it even after people have pointed out how crazy it is.

EmptySpace said:
not everyone likes starcraft. heck i don't like starcraft myself. that doesn't mean i should write paragraphs of hyperbole, metaphor, and exaggeration while i ignore the same things that i don't like in starcraft in the other games that I enjoy.
Click to expand...

If you were tasked with reviewing Starcraft and you hate RTSs, it would be wise to preface the review with this fact. Then you should explain why you didn't enjoy the game, not come up with fluff about how it would be fun if you were a different person (which you aren't so how do you know).
 
F

Faustek

Member
EmptySpace said:
SNIP
Click to expand...

So from what I get you want people interested in these specific type of games to do the reviews? "Experts" within that specific field?

For example:

Naniwa should review the next expansion to starcraft? And just not Starcraft but all the coming RTS' with futuristic settings? And not only Naniwa but at least 2 more in said eSport, kinda like the 3 boxing judges?(other martial arts has it as well I think).

And likewise for every other genre of game out there?
 
M

mechphree

Member
unbias said:
Ya but a car is a product with pretty clear defined definitions of good vs bad. Games are like books, movies, and sports; you will always find different perspectives and opinions.[/QUOTE

But they aren't. The only clear definition of a good car would be one that runs. And even that is subject to debate.
Click to expand...
 
LollipoPReapeR

LollipoPReapeR

Member
mechphree said:
I think we shouldn't take one review as the gods honest truth end all be all. What I can say though is if i see something that across the board has received terrible scores and people say you should avoid it I would loose interest in it. But their are certain games I know I like that don't get as good review scores but I buy anyway.
Click to expand...

Yeah, pretty much what I meant with your latter point and I agree with your former point as well.
 
K

Kingbrave

Member
mechphree said:
What he is saying is he would trust a website that has a specific interest in the genre then some random ign guy who is probably reviewing a game with either no interest in the genre or type of game. I look at it like this, if I wanted a review on what type of cars are good performance wise, I'd check out people who specialize in cars and their performance for an opinion. Wouldn't go to some random person on the street who may not be as informed.
Click to expand...

The bolded is the same thing for game reviewers too. It's not like they are some random people on the street either. Just because they aren't as knowledgeable about a specific game doesn't mean their review is shit. In fact I would rather someone who isn't specifically into that genre give a review as there is a bigger chance for it to be unbiased.

It would be the same as going to a website called "FinalFantasyGames" and expecting a unbiased review.
 
M

mechphree

Member
Faustek said:
So from what I get you want people interested in these specific type of games to do the reviews? "Experts" within that specific field?

For example:

Naniwa should review the next expansion to starcraft? And just not Starcraft but all the coming RTS' with futuristic settings? And not only Naniwa but at least 2 more in said eSport, kinda like the 3 boxing judges?(other martial arts has it as well I think).

And likewise for every other genre of game out there?
Click to expand...

That makes sense. You wouldn't pull 3 random people from the street to score a boxing match. I remember a couple years ago a fps game got a bad review and the reviewer admitted he "didn't even like the genre in the first place" which lead me to believe at least some of his negativity was toward a lack of understanding of the genre in the first place.
 
A

Arsenic13

Member
Why not just take several reviews from people whose opinion you respect and take what they have to say in consideration for your purchase? Or not! Reviews are complicated.
 
F

Faustek

Member
SaSliXCII said:
Could anyone here fill me in as to what Gies has done? I know he's generally an asshole, but recently, what has he specifically done?
Click to expand...

A lot

But latest?

He started bitching about something on twitter, not saying what, spouting "truth to power"

NDA couldn't speak about it but(I think it was Penello) asked him on twitter what was up and he said they should take it over mail which if true is EXTREMLY shitty, talking to the "competition" about something he couldn't talk about but it was ok to fellate MS reps

It was apparently something about not getting a Sony console delivered home but forced to go to NY, controlled environment and then he could take it home and review it alone. And all this apparently threatened his job. Then he whined and shouted about how he didn't want to review Killzone, reviewed it anyway, gave it a 5.0(no biggie he didn't like it) Then something about reviewing the PS4....no idea why
 
M

mechphree

Member
Kingbrave said:
The bolded is the same thing for game reviewers too. It's not like they are some random people on the street either. Just because they aren't as knowledgeable about a specific game doesn't mean their review is shit. In fact I would rather someone who isn't specifically into that genre give a review as there is a bigger chance for it to be unbiased.

It would be the same as going to a website called "FinalFantasyGames" and expecting a unbiased review.
Click to expand...


I get how ff games can be biased. I do remember specifically though on ign when the reviewer first rated I think it was black ops the first one (I think it got a 8.5) he talked about how he didn't like shooters or wasn't into the genre at all. I made me wonder if some of his gripes were really about the game or his lack of interest in the genre itself. But I do agree , their is no such thing as a "unbiased review" because everyone adds some bias, it's just some add more then others.
 
M

mechphree

Member
unbias said:
If you are talking style sure, but if you are talking about performance there are benchmarks much like graphics cards.
Click to expand...


I do agree , but even performance is dependent on the person. My needs for a graphics card for my workstation PC to make 3d animation will be different then some one who just wants to run the sims 3.
 
K

Kingbrave

Member
mechphree said:
I get how ff games can be biased. I do remember specifically though on ign when the reviewer first rated I think it was black ops the first one (I think it got a 8.5) he talked about how he didn't like shooters or wasn't into the genre at all. I made me wonder if some of his gripes were really about the game or his lack of interest in the genre itself. But I do agree , their is no such thing as a "unbiased review" because everyone adds some bias, it's just some add more then others.
Click to expand...

That's all I'm trying to say. It's silly to get upset at a review because he has an opinion. The whole purpose of a review is to give an opinion. The fact that they all have certain biases toward specific genres should mean that you don't use just one review.
 
S

SaSliXCII

Banned
Faustek said:
A lot

But latest?

He started bitching about something on twitter, not saying what, spouting "truth to power"

NDA couldn't speak about it but(I think it was Penello) asked him on twitter what was up and he said they should take it over mail which if true is EXTREMLY shitty, talking to the "competition" about something he couldn't talk about but it was ok to fellate MS reps

It was apparently something about not getting a Sony console delivered home but forced to go to NY, controlled environment and then he could take it home and review it alone. And all this apparently threatened his job. Then he whined and shouted about how he didn't want to review Killzone, reviewed it anyway, gave it a 5.0(no biggie he didn't like it) Then something about reviewing the PS4....no idea why
Click to expand...

Why do Sony take a website like Polygon seriously, honestly the people that frequent that website are so deluded it's unreal. Thanks for the info man, can we make a Gies hate thread please, no. Polygon hate thread would be much better.
 
F

Faustek

Member
SaSliXCII said:
Why do Sony take a website like Polygon seriously, honestly the people that frequent that website are so deluded it's unreal. Thanks for the info man, can we make a Gies hate thread please, no. Polygon hate thread would be much better.
Click to expand...

Well many of the commentators there are people as well some are real fanboys others are just having fun. Not sure how funded by MS they are but I still lost all respect for the site and I don't see that changing.

[post=89802845]for those spiraling out there is already a post about the topic of shitty reviewers [/post] it's not about specific persons but just getting a discussion started...might have died down but some really interesting writing there.
 
S

Skeff

Member
SaSliXCII said:
Could anyone here fill me in as to what Gies has done? I know he's generally an asshole, but recently, what has he specifically done?
Click to expand...

Well he loves always on DRM for a start and made up shit about simcity needing to always be online because most of the game was running off their servers.

There's a bit of satire here joking about him becoming a Simcity spokesperson, but there are a llot of links that shows how clueless he is in the article:

http://www.p4rgaming.com/ea-hires-arthur-gies-as-simcity-spokesperson/
 
LollipoPReapeR

LollipoPReapeR

Member
SaSliXCII said:
Why do Sony take a website like Polygon seriously, honestly the people that frequent that website are so deluded it's unreal. Thanks for the info man, can we make a Gies hate thread please, no. Polygon hate thread would be much better.
Click to expand...

Faustek said:
Well many of the commentators there are people as well some are real fanboys others are just having fun. Not sure how funded by MS they are but I still lost all respect for the site and I don't see that changing.

[post=89802845]for those spiraling out there is already a post about the topic of shitty reviewers [/post] it's not about specific persons but just getting a discussion started...might have died down but some really interesting writing there.
Click to expand...

Skeff said:
Well he loves always on DRM for a start and made up shit about simcity needing to always be online because most of the game was running off their servers.

There's a bit of satire here joking about him becoming a Simcity spokesperson, but there are a llot of links that shows how clueless he is in the article:

http://www.p4rgaming.com/ea-hires-arthur-gies-as-simcity-spokesperson/
Click to expand...

Wasn't a thread asking mods to give Polygon a banned status and Evilore just replied saying 'No'?

Gies is still a
knobhead
though
 
C

Cyrix

Neo Member
mechphree said:
I do agree , but even performance is dependent on the person. My needs for a graphics card for my workstation PC to make 3d animation will be different then some one who just wants to run the sims 3.
Click to expand...

A persons ability to access the full performance of a device has no bearing on the devices objective testable performance.

if a car can reach 200mph it can reach 200mph regardless of if the person behind the wheel is capable of handling it.

there's nothing subjective about it's capabilities.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I didn't read back through mechphree and unbias' whole discussion I just saw that last comment and it didn't make sense to me.

Edit2: So I went back and read.

Speaking to the fan vs outsider reviewer question: There is a reason we don't just have a single reviewer in every category everyone has their opinion, expertise and bias. As a reasonably informed consumer you would be remiss if you didn't at least consider both sides because they will probably both have points the other wouldn't. I think that responsibility is on the reader not the publication/reviewer.
 
K

krypt0nian

Banned
EmptySpace said:
that's the whole point of my post. being a gamer does not mean you play ever game in every genre, which means a single reviewer shouldn't bear upon the responsibility and burden of trying to review a lot of games in a ton of genres. we are going off-topic, and i've already explained what the problems with single-reviewer reviews are, especially the problem of people taking the reviews as facts, affecting purchasing decisions, and even spreading misinformation and negativity based upon the said reviews.

it's okay to take those things as opinions, but most people don't. they see a score, that's it. they read the review, they take them as if they were absolute truths despite players saying otherwise. it's okay to read reviews and make up your own opinions of them, but they're being taken as the standard of the game's quality. a lot of reviews gloss over a lot of things simply because the reviewer isn't into the genre (again, in the case of gran turismo). some reviews go into more detail about the subsystems of a game's mechanics, simply because they enjoy the shooter genre.

it isn't about diversity of opinion, it's about opinions which vary greatly in detail, understanding, and information about certain games but their scores/opinions are treated as equally across all genres and all games. i'd take a gtplanet review of gran turismo more seriously than ign's, but people don't see it that way. they see ign doesn't like the game, therefore it's bad. it doesn't matter whether the reviewer is well-versed in the game or the genre, and that's why player impressions here on gaf are way better than taking a single reviewer out there. again, it's already off-topic the way it is, and i've gotten my point across so many times.

on-topic, although that's my reason why i wouldn't want sterling to review games, i highly doubt that's what ms pr actually likes to imply.
Click to expand...

Shu lol'd at you.
 
N

Neuromancer

Member
Jim Sterling said:
It's a hard situation. If you do it privately and quietly, you feel complicit in burying a rather (in my opinion) shady situation, which most of us tend to consider bad form for the gaming media. If you do it loud and public, you're accused of throwing a tantrum and showboating.

Really, there's no win here. I took my losing option.
Click to expand...
Well I appreciate the honesty so thanks. Keep doing what you're doing.
 
F

Faustek

Member
ceYDtly.jpg
Click to expand...

Well it looks like it started going forward.

Edit: forgot the quote tags for you with small small monitors
 
L

LiquidSolid

Member
Faustek said:
Well it looks like it started going forward.

Edit: forgot the quote tags for you with small small monitors
Click to expand...

Further proof that if Microsoft's doing something shitty, the only way you're going to get them to pull a 180 is to get a GAF thread made about it.
 
F

Faustek

Member
unbias said:
Well nice. Seems like the intelligent thing to do on their part.
Click to expand...

LiquidSolid said:
Further proof that if Microsoft's doing something shitty, the only way you're going to get them to pull a 180 is to get a GAF thread made about it.
Click to expand...

Pretty much yeah, the intelligent thing would not to force a situation like this. Not saying this was a "storm" in the face of the Evil "empire", not saying we had anything to do with it.

But I will say that this situation, with Sterling addressing the PR in such a way, we making a thread about it, some even "Twitter assaulting" some of MS PR is a shitty situation to force.
If companies want to benefit from good PR that comes with a good standing they have to learn that they are a effing service. WE chose to deal with them not the other way around.
We chose to give them our money, they aren't taking it.
We can choose many other options which they can't provide
And lastly, we can simply make their online social experience a minefield and make their jobs a living hell if they ever decide to try and screw us(180s everywhere)
 
D

DrFurbs

Member
^^ well said mate. ms and associates really are a clue less bunch. I wouldnt touch their product with a barge pole now.
 
F

Fahrenheit

Banned
Only thing I don't like about Jim Sterlings is how he acts like what he says is so edgy and ahead of the curve. But really he's just saying what a lot of people been thinking for years.
 
T

tsumineko

Member
Fahrenheit said:
Only thing I don't like about Jim Sterlings is how he acts like what he says is so edgy and ahead of the curve. But really he's just saying what a lot of people been thinking for years.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's that. He's saying what a lot of people in his position won't say... and he's doing it in a way that's entertaining.
 
F

Fahrenheit

Banned
tsumineko said:
I don't think it's that. He's saying what a lot of people in his position won't say... and he's doing it in a way that's entertaining.
Click to expand...

Yeah I understand that and I'm not really talking about this event with MS. I mean like on his videos on the site. Like when he called out Adam Sessler for crying on twitter and acted like he was the lone person with the balls to do so. Tons of people call him out on that.
 
T

tsumineko

Member
Fahrenheit said:
Yeah I understand that and I'm not really talking about this event with MS. I mean like on his videos on the site. Like when he called out Adam Sessler for crying on twitter and acted like he was the lone person with the balls to do so. Tons of people call him out on that.
Click to expand...

By tons of people, do you mean industry professionals?
 
L

lazydom

Member
he seems to be one of the few industry types who is more connected with consumers than big publishers. As a result of this it seems he is receiving unfavorable treatment because of his willingness to stand up for us, whereas a site like IGN who just regurgitate PR are given unique access.
 
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