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Interactivity > graphics

Drizzlehell

Banned
"...in those types of discussions"....

...you mean in "Threads" clearly labeled and created to specificly talk about graphics in which others always seem to come into and derail into the usual and quite frankly tired conversation about Graphics vs Gameplay as if its some Zero Sum Game instead of making there own thread. Thank god there glossed over there and not allowed to derail another graphics thread.
Uh, no. I mean those types of DISCUSSIONS, as in discussions about what's important in modern gaming and what we should expect when it comes to the evolution of the medium. Things that usually get the most attention are graphics and performance, while things like interactivity or gameplay rarely get the same level of attention or are being discussed so eagerly. At least from what I saw around here.

Maybe next time before you start ranting at me for no reason, I dunno, maybe ask first?
 
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Toots

Gold Member
that is the point of Game desig: "Fun". A better word for it: Engagement.
I agree with Neil !
I don't use the word fun because it's children who have fun. And us serious videogame players aren't children !

meanwhile on Fleed

hjEqFlo.jpg
 
There's more, it's hopelessly subjective .. but yes, no shit. Yes, you want appealing graphics, but a good artstyle through a passionate creator can be eternally appealing.

That, and if gameplay fall into place (high framerate, good feedback), then you've got a game that doesn't "age".
 

Buggy Loop

Member
Op should try noita, there is no other game on the market with more interactivity than that.

every single pixel is simulated




It make look the physics in zelda or teardown like child play.


I got addicted to this game so bad

It's brilliant. You can even take shrooms and it affects the world. WTF. Genius programmers

Another honorable mention is Teardown

 

StueyDuck

Member
You don't agree with my opinion, so you make up shit? How childish.
Lol what a chop. You came into a thread being aggressive to my opinion and just parroting nakey Jake video and now you are acting like you were going to have a conversation in good faith 🤣

I don't understand where the salt comes from for rdr2. It didn't even win the goty that year so I'm not sure why npcs turn up when the name is mentioned. "ThUh MisSIoNs aRe LiNeaR"... ok well don't watch a youtube video and actually go explore the game, fun fact you don't have to only do missions in RDR2,everyones favorite game right now is literally easter hunt but for seeds instead of eggs so why is it illegal to explore a rockstar game...
 
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Lol what a chop. You came into a thread being aggressive to a my opinion and just parroting nakey Jake video and now you are acting like you were going to have a conversation in good faith 🤣

I don't understand where the salt comes from for rdr2. It didn't even win the goty that year so I'm not sure why npcs turn up when the name is mentioned. "ThUh MisSIoNs aRe LiNeaR"... ok well don't watch a youtube video and actually go explore the game, fun fact you don't have to only do missions in RDR2,everyones favorite game right now is literally easter hunt but for seeds instead of eggs so why is it illegal to explore a rockstar game...
The game looks great, the characters are well done, and I the music is nice. That's it. Rockstar is a shell of their former selves when, in games like RDR and GTA3-SA the player could approach missions any way they liked. That's what made them so loved in the first place. In RDR2, try going around the main path and you get a warning you're about to abort the mission. That shit is lazy and regressive as opposed to innovative, something people have come to expect from a once-venerable game developer.

People like you giving them a free pass for that shit is why they've become so lazy in the first place. Your attitude towards people's input is that of a 10 year old. If you enjoy games based on developers previous achievements, then that's not doing fans of good games any favors.
 

StueyDuck

Member
The game looks great, the characters are well done, and I the music is nice. That's it. Rockstar is a shell of their former selves when, in games like RDR and GTA3-SA the player could approach missions any way they liked. That's what made them so loved in the first place. In RDR2, try going around the main path and you get a warning you're about to abort the mission. That shit is lazy and regressive as opposed to innovative, something people have come to expect from a once-venerable game developer.

People like you giving them a free pass for that shit is why they've become so lazy in the first place. Your attitude towards people's input is that of a 10 year old. If you enjoy games based on developers previous achievements, then that's not doing fans of good games any favors.
So to be clear you are under the impression there isn't an open world to explore?

(Pretty sure a 10 year old would watch a youtube video and let that form their opinion 😉)
 
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So to be clear you are under the impression there isn't an open world to explore?

(Pretty sure a 10 year old would watch a youtube video and let that form their opinion 😉)
So to be clear, you're just a antagonistic troll? You keep bringing up Youtube for some reason. Is that the way you "play your games" or something? I bought the game, played the game, beat the game despite your "best" efforts to "prove" otherwise? Grow the fuck up, kid.
 

StueyDuck

Member
So to be clear, you're just a antagonistic troll? You keep bringing up Youtube for some reason. Is that the way you "play your games" or something? I bought the game, played the game, beat the game despite your "best" efforts to "prove" otherwise? Grow the fuck up, kid.
And that game you bought and played didn't have an open world? Only linear missions?
 
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And that game you bought and played didn't have an open world? Only linear missions?
It had an open world, so what? Lots of scripted moments along the trail that were very unrealistic, predictable and repetitive. Like riding down the same trail where some convict wants you to suck blood out of his snake bite. I ignore him and he should have died, but guess what? I come back down that same trail days later and he magically appears again with the same issue. How amazing. Same with robbers attacking a stage coach, for instance.
 

StueyDuck

Member
It had an open world, so what? Lots of scripted moments along the trail that were very unrealistic, predictable and repetitive. Like riding down the same trail where some convict wants you to suck blood out of his snake bite. I ignore him and he should have died, but guess what? I come back down that same trail days later and he magically appears again with the same issue. How amazing. Same with robbers attacking a stage coach, for instance.
Well I was talking about the interactivity of the open world in my original comment that is what...

Now again explain the nakey jakey opinion to me that has nothing to do with the thread, game or comments?
 
Well I was talking about the interactivity of the open world in my original comment that is what...

Now again explain the nakey jakey opinion to me that has nothing to do with the thread, game or comments?
So "interactivity" to you is riding around mindlessly in an open world that doesn't respond to your input? :messenger_dizzy:
 

StueyDuck

Member
So "interactivity" to you is riding around mindlessly in an open world that doesn't respond to your input? :messenger_dizzy:
Ah so you can't read... its almost like I've already explained all this already in the thread.

And you have the audacity to call others trolls and then describe an rockstar open world as mindless that doesn't respond to your input 🤣🤣 that's probably the dumbest take I've read on this forum and I've seen alot of stupid shit on here
 
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MetalRain

Member
Half Life: Alyx is absolutely king here. Everything is real, it's amazing to have full interaction with even the smallest things around you.
While you can pick up and look at many objects, they don't make sense for the gameplay. Writing on whiteboard doesn't make battle plans to kill the Combine, watching beer bubble doesn't quench thirst etc. The more detailed you make the environment, the more expectations you get, which are difficult to fulfill in the game.

And if you make every object useful that muddles the game design and increases cognitive load. Think games like Tarkov, Fallout 4 or Divinity Original Sin. You can pick up lots of trash, but using it wisely and making the decision what to pick up kind of hinders the gameplay.

Games require the player to accept the rules of the game and play like the world build within is real. There always is that invisible wall somewhere.
 
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Ah so you can't read... its almost like I've already explained all this already in the thread.

And you have the audacity to call others trolls and then describe an rockstar open world as mindless that doesn't respond to your input 🤣🤣 that's probably the dumbest take I've read on this forum and I've seen alot of stupid shit on here
Yup, you're just a young child who can't interact with people who present different opinions than yourself, so you just attack people with bullshit. What a great poster you are. If you're simping for such an old game, you're probably just a casual R* fan in the first place. Not even worth my time.
 

StueyDuck

Member
Yup, you're just a young child who can't interact with people who present different opinions than yourself, so you just attack people with bullshit. What a great poster you are. If you're simping for such an old game, you're probably just a casual R* fan in the first place. Not even worth my time.
Mate you started the attack 🤣

Go outside dude. Actually play some rdr2 and watch less YouTube and chill

I don't know how you could use simping and casual in the same sentence and not be the troll 🤣
 
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Mate you started the attack 🤣

Go outside dude. Actually play some rdr2 and watch less YouTube and chill

I don't know how you could use simping and casual in the same sentence and not be the troll 🤣
"attack" ? That alone tells me you are not thinking clearly and are too emotional about a single game. Why? Honestly, I don't think I want to know. Laters.
 

StueyDuck

Member
"attack" ? That alone tells me you are not thinking clearly and are too emotional about a single game. Why? Honestly, I don't think I want to know. Laters.
Mate, go outside,get some fresh air

You literally said attack first. It's gotten to the point where you don't realise what you are typing anymore
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
And you have the audacity to call others trolls and then describe an rockstar open world as mindless that doesn't respond to your input 🤣🤣 that's probably the dumbest take I've read on this forum and I've seen alot of stupid shit on here
Thats more or less what R* worlds are, and when they do feel like responding to your input its either limited or broken. The police and bounty system makes no sense whatsoever, paying bounties that cost less than what i've robbed, officers that don't do anything when a guy punches me right in front of them but starts shooting at me when i punch back.

It amazes me how much people praise the open world of this game for half-assedly doing a fraction of what a decent rpg does.
 

CGNoire

Member
Uh, no. I mean those types of DISCUSSIONS, as in discussions about what's important in modern gaming and what we should expect when it comes to the evolution of the medium. Things that usually get the most attention are graphics and performance, while things like interactivity or gameplay rarely get the same level of attention or are being discussed so eagerly. At least from what I saw around here.

Maybe next time before you start ranting at me for no reason, I dunno, maybe ask first?
I apologize if it came off aggressive but Im not sure what to think when 99% of the time people really only bring that stuff up in graphics threads.
 
Red Dead Reduction 2 gets by on simple flair and past accomplishments and window dressing. The developer puts out very few games these days and still they continue to focus on outdated shit like GTA V, a game that keeps getting makeup touches three gens in a row for a fee. They've become a one-two hit trick pony and the people that shill for them must be bedazzled by atmosphere alone. Sad.
 
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StueyDuck

Member
Thats more or less what R* worlds are, and when they do feel like responding to your input its either limited or broken. The police and bounty system makes no sense whatsoever, paying bounties that cost less than what i've robbed, officers that don't do anything when a guy punches me right in front of them but starts shooting at me when i punch back.

It amazes me how much people praise the open world of this game for half-assedly doing a fraction of what a decent rpg does.
All video games are still games. They are all restrictive and limited and broken.

It amazes me that people think physics is all that counts for good world interaction. The systems in rdr2 are far more complex than any of its contemporaries and its just a fact.

Heck even the breath of the Wild team said they were using it as inspiration (I don't see where in totk to be honest, but they still said they were)

Again rdr2 has a complete ecosystem that is completely there just for player engagement. There is no need for animals hunting each other, drinking, eating, sleeping, playing with each other etc. Those systems alone are more complex than what you see in your average open world game and in rdr2 its not even necessary for the gameplay. It's there purely to make the world more Alive and interactive.

I played a certain AAA game just the other day and watched a one of two wolves run vertically up a mountain and then just sit there while the other repeated its attack loop. When I ran away the wolf went from engaged mode to standing still mode.
 

Josemayuste

Member
When Half-Life 2 came out.. i thought that was the road the Industry was going to take, oh how wrong I was..

BOTW & TOTK while not inventing the wheel, were a breath of fresh air in that matter: game design/interactivity/sistemic gameplay/call it what you wish > graphics

So, I completely agree with OP.
 
When Half-Life 2 came out.. i thought that was the road the Industry was going to take, oh how wrong I was..

BOTW & TOTK while not inventing the wheel, were a breath of fresh air in that matter: game design/interactivity/sistemic gameplay/call it what you wish > graphics

So, I completely agree with OP.
Yup, even FO4 had building aspects that turned a cookie-cutter formula of old watchable open world into an interactive map with tower defense mechanics. No longer should we praise open world games that just look nice and does absolutely nothing for the player and their agency.
 

Josemayuste

Member
Yup, even FO4 had building aspects that turned a cookie-cutter formula of old watchable open world into an interactive map with tower defense mechanics. No longer should we praise open world games that just look nice and does absolutely nothing for the player and their agency.

And even doing so, FO4 got lots of bad critics..
 

GymWolf

Member
You people are both right.

Rdr2 has one of the most restricted main campaign ever, it also has one of the best open world ever.

Hopefully gta6 is gonna have a better balance.
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Again rdr2 has a complete ecosystem that is completely there just for player engagement. There is no need for animals hunting each other, drinking, eating, sleeping, playing with each other etc. Those systems alone are more complex than what you see in your average open world game and in rdr2 its not even necessary for the gameplay. It's there purely to make the world more Alive and interactive.
No it doesn't. These "systems" can be summed up to "spawn x action or event when the player is nearby", evetrything ceases to exist when the player leaves, and by extension trying to interact with these "systems" only yeld simple and predictable results. Its all smoke and mirrors.

And if you try to argue "every game is just smoke and mirrors", thats akin to admiting you have no clue what a system even is.
 

StueyDuck

Member
No it doesn't. These "systems" can be summed up to "spawn x action or event when the player is nearby", evetrything ceases to exist when the player leaves, and by extension trying to interact with these "systems" only yeld simple and predictable results. Its all smoke and mirrors.

And if you try to argue "every game is just smoke and mirrors", thats akin to admiting you have no clue what a system even is.
Well you know better than tears of the kingdom creators 🤷‍♂️

They were pretty impressed and who am I to say a developer is wrong.

It is all smoke and mirrors, I'm sorry that you don't like that fact but all games need to unload resources, even Bethesda games unload the resources, they have systems in place to remember where an object is but it still is cleared when the player leaves.

Again this is about interactivity.not how long an object stays in ram
 
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Guilty_AI

Member
Well you know better than tears of the kingdom creators 🤷‍♂️

They were pretty impressed and who am I to say a developer is wrong.

It is all smoke and mirrors, I'm sorry that you don't like that fact but all games need to unload resources, even Bethesda games unload the resources, they have systems in place to remember where an object is but it still is cleared when the player leaves.

Again this is about interactivity.not how long an object stays in ram
Fun fact, if you wanna bring up totk for "taking inspiration" on rdr2, know rdr2 did the same with skyrim.

And no, its not just about loading and unloading things from ram. Its about a world that exists and evolves besides the player (or the developer for that matter), and no, neither skyrim, nor totk, nor rdr2 have that. What the former 2 do have over the latter are properly designed mechanics.
 
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Caio

Member
I'm kind of a graphics whore, but yes, I would like Developers to put more effort and resources in things like interactivity, system detection/collision/physics/Animation, fluid animation, etc, but this requires a lot of power, and it appears these areas are always the less exploited. Who knows when we will see a real jump in those things...
 

StueyDuck

Member
Fun fact, if you wanna bring up totk for "taking inspiration" on rdr2, know rdr2 did the same with skyrim.

And no, its not just about loading and unloading things from ram. Its about a world that exists and evolves besides the player (or the developer for that matter), and no, neither skyrim, nor totk, nor rdr2 have that. What the former 2 do have over the latter are properly designed mechanics.
Bethesda? Good mechanics?

I love their games but the last thing I'd call their games is mechanically sound.

Do you have a source on that? I haven't seen anything saying that rdr2 was inspired by skyrim?

It's all well and good to criticize the level design on rdr2. I can see why people don't like it. But now we are getting silly, rdr2 is designed to be more methodical and slow and that is a choice. But saying it's a game with badly designed mechanics is a little over the top don't you think 🤣.

I mean the horse riding alone destroys controlling a horse in any other game. I've literally not used horses in other games because of this. I think maybe Ghost of tsutshima was the only other game I could stand controlling the mount
 

Lethal01

Member
Well you know better than tears of the kingdom creators 🤷‍♂️

They were pretty impressed and who am I to say a developer is wrong.

They younger staff being inspired by RDR2 does not all back your claim that it has a complete ecosystem, All it says is that some people liked the game for unspecified reasons, which is fine, but doesn't support your argument.

When you say ecosystems what exactly do you mean? that the world keeps track of the position and movement of all the animals and that hunting one specific animal could lead to another species becoming more abundant due to the lack of competition?
Or do you just mean that if a bear and some deer spawn in the same location they will fight.
 

StueyDuck

Member
They younger staff being inspired by RDR2 does not all back your claim that it has a complete ecosystem, All it says is that some people liked the game for unspecified reasons, which is fine, but doesn't support your argument.

When you say ecosystems what exactly do you mean? that the world keeps track of the position and movement of all the animals and that hunting one specific animal could lead to another species becoming more abundant due to the lack of competition?
Or do you just mean that if a bear and some deer spawn in the same location they will fight.
the question is literally "what is inspiring the sequel to BotW and the response was most of the team are play RDR2 ... it's there in writing .

lol, second time now we bring up "but game objects spawn" think i'm starting to get a picture of who dislikes RDR2.

the ecosystem reacts like an ecosystem, just because there isn't some eternal clock and actual real life growth of plants etc doesn't mean much since that is literally impossible to achieve without some sort of quantum processor or cloud computing.


what i mean is the ecosystem reacts like an ecosystem does when you are experiencing the open world, it feels like it's an actual ecosystem. That's an incredible system, the hardest thing to do for a dev is to convince the players that something isn't just a scripted event, I ran through the same corridor in Hogwarts and every time the two suits or armor would fight and say the same lines of dialog, in elden ring the same enemies would just stand rock solid in the exact location every time i went by. it was all painfully obvious, but in RDR2 if you just sit and take in the nature it is truly in depth ecosystem, sure animals have spawn locations, but unlike other games where animals just randomly spawn like a wolf on the side of a mountain, or they will just be static enemies standing still and a "bandit camp" the ecosystem in RDR2 feels natural, you might see wolves hunt the deer, you might not, you don't find alligators in snow and you don't find bears in the bayou . It's far more than "Animal spawns" and you know it, and if you don't then you haven't really played the game enough to see it.

i mean with literally 2 seconds of searching i find this and this doesn't even scratch the surface of animal behavior in RDR2... and again that's just the ecosystem alone, name one other game that has such a complex goal oriented system that is literally just there to be part of the world and has nothing to do with the main game



i'm starting to get a feeling that people just instantly put there backs up against the wall and refused to even try enjoy the open world because alot of what i've been reading here is kind of ridiculous. You really thought i meant a literal ecosystem that lives and dies even when you aren't playing the game? is that really what you thought i was arguing?
 
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Lethal01

Member
the question is literally "what is inspiring the sequel to BotW and the response was most of the team are play RDR2 ... it's there in writing .
The comment in this thread you were responding to with it wasn't talking about whether the game inspired BoTW at all though. It was talking about whether it has a complete ecosystem, which the article you linked does not adress.

lol, second time now we bring up "but game objects spawn" think i'm starting to get a picture of who dislikes RDR2.
It's not just "do game objects despawn" it's, "does the game world actually have even a vague,rough memory of what you did and respond to it over time. IT's fine for it to be smoke and mirrors but if you are making the claim that it has a "complete ecosystem" then the game better have atleast some attempt at making what you do have some lasting effects.

what i mean is the ecosystem reacts like an ecosystem is that when you are experiencing the open world, it feels like it's an actual ecosystem.

i'm starting to get a feeling that people just instantly put there backs up against the wall and refused to even try enjoy the open world because alot of what i've been reading here is kind of ridiculous. You really thought i meant a literal ecosystem that lives and dies even when you aren't playing the game? is that really what you thought i was arguing?
No, just thought that there was something more than what you claimed which amounts to some semi randomized spawn locations and npcs that have unique interactions with each other...

Again, no I'm not saying that it needs to keep track of if you cut or burned every single blade of grass. just something like "if you kill tons of bears, the game will spawn less bears", "if there are less bears, the trees will have more fruit" etc etc.
 

BossLackey

Gold Member
My personal order of importance:

  1. Gameplay
  2. Mechanics
  3. Art Style
  4. Story
  5. Performance
  6. Presentation
  7. Graphical Fidelity
 

StueyDuck

Member
The comment in this thread you were responding to with it wasn't talking about whether the game inspired BoTW at all though. It was talking about whether it has a complete ecosystem, which the article you linked does not adress.


It's not just "do game objects despawn" it's, "does the game world actually have even a vague,rough memory of what you did and respond to it over time. IT's fine for it to be smoke and mirrors but if you are making the claim that it has a "complete ecosystem" then the game better have atleast some attempt at making what you do have some lasting effects.




No, just thought that there was something more than what you claimed which amounts to some semi randomized spawn locations and npcs that have unique interactions with each other...

Again, no I'm not saying that it needs to keep track of if you cut or burned every single blade of grass. just something like "if you kill tons of bears, the game will spawn less bears", "if there are less bears, the trees will have more fruit" etc etc.
it's never going to remember everything or even a rough memory and no game does, and if they do you can just argue it's smoke and mirrors as well. i never claimed it was a full on ecosystem that lives and dies, we are all gamers right? we all play video games, so obviously discussion on this forum needs to be around the knowledge of all of us seeing the matrix and seeing whats going on behind the scenes, so when i say complete ecosystem, it means that Rockstar did more than just spawn location x randomly, and if you see the video there is slight memory for animals will decompose over time.

but that's not the argument, the fact is if i sit and let the world exist around me, the game puts up a facade that it really exists and will react to my actions as a gamer, as i have said before you can kill an deer, wait for scavengers and randomly get lucky enough to see one of the hunting NPCs hunt the scavenger and take it to town, that's just one example, the NPCs/AI in RDR2 is goal oriented, and again it is all smoke and mirrors of course, but unlike static standing wolf so when i come into it's circle of attack radius runs right at me and play wolf_attk_anim loop, rdr2 creatures react in a believable way. Another example i have mentioned before that if you walk through trees and hearing birdsong as ambiance and you pull out a gun and shoot, actual birds in the game will fly away (not just 2d billboards) and then the ambiance in that area is gone, you wont hear those exact birds chirping anymore.

I mean what you are suggesting just things peter molyneaux would say and we all know videogames don't do that, at least not big AAA openworld games. but you seem to be really focusing in on a very singular aspect of ecosystem as if to say see gotcha RDR2 is terrible now, my point of interactivity still stands, it's just not suiting the one tiny aspect you are honing in on.



i mean even the "evil bad no no missions that nakey jakey hates" have different ways to interact with them with unique individual lines of dialog, honestly RDR2 is mental, all this talk makes me wanna play it again.
 
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Aldynes

Member
There is a perfect exemple for this topic from 1996, two FPS: Duke Nukem 3D and Quake

Duke 3D is all about interactive environment and Quake was pushing graphics with a fully polygonal game.



Duke 3D still amaze me to this day with mods

 

Lethal01

Member
it's never going to remember everything or even a rough memory and no game does,
That's just totally untrue, keeping track of general animal and plant populations and changing the world based on that is something that has been done in games for decades. It would not be mindblowing for this game to do it too which is why I asked for clarification on what you mean since, it's not at all a given how far this game goes with it.

I mean what you are suggesting just things peter molyneaux would say and we all know videogames don't do that, at least not big AAA openworld games. but you seem to be really focusing in on a very singular aspect of ecosystem as if to say see gotcha RDR2 is terrible now, my point of interactivity still stands, it's just not suiting the one tiny aspect you are honing in on.

The things i mentioned are not at all huge feats, again, it's a simple "how many bears are here", "adjust map based on bear population"
Yes it would be smoke and mirrors but if you are saying the game has a complete ecosystem that no other game does I expect more than you would see in other games but it doesn't sound like it's even matching what's already out.
 

StueyDuck

Member
That's just totally untrue, keeping track of general animal and plant populations and changing the world based on that is something that has been done in games for decades. It would not be mindblowing for this game to do it too which is why I asked for clarification on what you mean since, it's not at all a given how far this game goes with it.



The things i mentioned are not at all huge feats, again, it's a simple "how many bears are here", "adjust map based on bear population"
Yes it would be smoke and mirrors but if you are saying the game has a complete ecosystem that no other game does I expect more than you would see in other games but it doesn't sound like it's even matching what's already out.
what big AAA openworld games have been keeping track of animal and plant populations as well as changing the environment over time because the player killed to much of X

i mean are you alluding to cutting down a tree and coming back 5 mins later and its still a stump till 3 in game days later?

the only game i think have come close to what you are suggesting is MGSV with it's enemies reacting to your playstyle but that was also very marginal (also if it wasn't for RDR2 for world interactivity, MGSV would be top of my list front and center)
 
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Lethal01

Member
what big AAA openworld games have been keeping track of animal and plant populations as well as changing the environment over time because the player killed to much of X
You said "no game does" I've seen it done in several MMOs, civ games, random indie sandbox's, etc, etc . I couldn't tell you about if it's done in big AAA open world but there's no need to limit comparisons to AAA open worlds.

i mean are you alluding to cutting down a tree and coming back 5 mins later and its still a stump till 3 in game days later?
I'm not "Alluding" to anything, gave a pretty straight forward example, If you kill a ton of a single animal in a region does the game register that and decrease the population of that animal in the region, does the game make adjustments based on the population of that animal?

These are really simple things to keep track of, no need for any "quantum computers" sim games were doing it back in the 1990s.
 

StueyDuck

Member
You said "no game does" I've seen it done in several MMOs, civ games, random indie sandbox's, etc, etc . I couldn't tell you about if it's done in big AAA open world but there's no need to limit comparisons to AAA open worlds.


I'm not "Alluding" to anything, gave a pretty straight forward example, If you kill a ton of a single animal in a region does the game register that and decrease the population of that animal in the region, does the game make adjustments based on the population of that animal?
the discussion was about Graphics or interactivity and i said both, and RDR2 does both.

of course RTS games do that , but that's not what my overall point of saying RDR2 is.

i think you've joined midway of a conversation because i was not talking about simpler RTS games or MMOs that track enemy counts.
These are really simple things to keep track of, no need for any "quantum computers" sim games were doing it back in the 1990s.
in a big AAA game where the players playtime and exploration and interaction with the highly detailed openworld could last infinite hours it would indeed need much greater computational power. or do you think it's a quick 2 lines of code to make it work?
 
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Lethal01

Member
the discussion was about Graphics or interactivity and i said both, and RDR2 does both.

of course RTS games do that , but that's not what my overall point of saying RDR2 is.

i think you've joined midway of a conversation because i was not talking about simpler RTS games or MMOs that track enemy counts.

Simpler in some aspects but clearly more advanced in others.
I'd just apply that to this comparison of RDR2 and other open world in general, there are cool things it does to let the world respond to you that other games don't do but it also falls behind a game like tears of the kingdom in many aspects.

It'd definitely not so far and above other open worlds that's it's the "first truly interactive open world" that's just nonsense.
 
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StueyDuck

Member
Simpler in some aspects but clearly more advanced in others.
I'd just apply that to this comparison of RDR2 and other open world in general, there are cool things it does to let the world respond to you that other games don't do but it also falls behind a game like tears of the kingdom in many aspects.

It'd definitely not so far and above other open worlds that's it's the "first truly interactive open world" that's just nonsense.
but it is, in terms of actual reactivity from my interactions from the open world it is.

totk has some nice mechanics for sure, but the open world is just static, many of the things they actually do share but RDR2 doesn't put a gameplay focus on it, Lightning is more likely to strike metal too, fire propogates as well, it's just not the focus of the gameplay in RDR2, but i wouldn't call cutting down a tree interactivity and i wouldn't call bandit camps of enemies just standing still that spawn in the same place every time doing the same animation all that interactive either. Rdr2 you can walk into town and you can have different interactions everytime you do so, is it smoke an mirrors again of course but it happens, i've seen npcs gang up on each other, NPCs will attack you if you threaten a woman, some NPCs won't react to you at all because they don't want to fight and so on. I don't get a response for TotK game world. I spend most of my play session running towards something and then fighting, sure it's up to me to make a car or something , but it's still just mechanics.

i will say TotK does have better than most open world reactivity to interactions, it's not a complete blank slate, bokoblins will at least react to fire and things of that nature, but when i say "seeing the matrix" reading scripted events etc TotK is more obvious to me than RDR2, which is incredible design on rockstars behalf.

compare that to your average ass creed game where npcs just walk into each other and don't react to the player in anyway except running if you do aggressive action.
 
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Corndog

Banned
It's the only one that does it well.

Only other games would be prior Rockstar games. But gta isn't as interactive to me. It's more of a sandbox.

But rdr2 is the only believable open world where if I do something the world is genuinely going to react.

If you insult a female npc the male npcs will fight you, if you kill a deer the body will decompose, if you shoot in the forest the birds will disperse and you won't hear them singing anymore

There is nothing close to it,
Rdr2 is a good simulation game but it’s not the only one. The new Zelda game also is.
 
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