Support NeoGAF

[Åesop]

So lets talk about the 8 GB SSD-Cache that are in most of the SSHDs. Sounds a bit small to me.. Ive heard there are some SSHDs with up to 64 GB SSD-Cache ?!! Where can I find them? Whats their name ? Where can I buy one of those ?

 

[Final Boss]

So the sea gate ST1000LM014 everyone is recommending only has a limited number of GB that's actually flash storage, rest is on the spinning drive. So if you're someone who is playing different games at once and using a lot of apps wouldn't you see little difference because all those apps likely won't fit on the flash portion of the SSHD?

 

[Brohan]

So the sea gate ST1000LM014 everyone is recommending only has a limited number of GB that's actually flash storage, rest is on the spinning drive. So if you're someone who is playing different games at once and using a lot of apps wouldn't you see little difference because all those apps likely won't fit on the flash portion of the SSHD?

It's a smart system that caches depending on your most used apps etc, it will probably delete and recache on a regular basis, which makes me think 8gb is decent enough.

 

[cormack12]

So the sea gate ST1000LM014 everyone is recommending only has a limited number of GB that's actually flash storage, rest is on the spinning drive. So if you're someone who is playing different games at once and using a lot of apps wouldn't you see little difference because all those apps likely won't fit on the flash portion of the SSHD?

Not really. Used pages will be stepped up into the blocks. Then some sort of LRU algorthm will be run (Seagate's is called adaptive memory technology). Any pages that are used more will be swapped in and out of NAND on that basis (paged in from the rotating drive).

One block can contain pages from different apps. For example, Killzone might be 39GB but there might only be real benefit in paging in 3GB of the assets. You'll have OS stuff as well paged up that's used a lot.

The page sizes are much smaller (a disk can only see bytes or bits).

 

[nib95]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bv2xXqVuLw

This vid is in Dutch but at around 7:30 in it shows some nice benchmarks comparing 5400rpm SSHDs to SSDs and 7200rpm HDDs.

The Seagate SSHDs are really solid and they compete just fine with 7200 rpm drives in moments when the Flash memory is useless.

No need to wait for 7200rpm SSHDs imo, just check those benchmarks.

Can't watch this where I am. Overall which performs better, 7200rpm HDD or 5400rpm SSHD?

 

[Mobius 1]

OP needs to be updated with the tests so far, this thread has degenerated into a discussion and it's difficult to find the actual results of anything.

 

[Final Boss]

It's a smart system that caches depending on your most used apps etc, it will probably delete and recache on a regular basis, which makes me think 8gb is decent enough.

Not really. Used pages will be stepped up into the blocks. Then some sort of LRU algorthm will be run (Seagate's is called adaptive memory technology). Any pages that are used more will be swapped in and out of NAND on that basis (paged in from the rotating drive).

One block can contain pages from different apps. For example, Killzone might be 39GB but there might only be real benefit in paging in 3GB of the assets. You'll have OS stuff as well paged up that's used a lot.

The page sizes are much smaller (a disk can only see bytes or bits).

I see, thanks

 

[nib95]

Interesting article comparing the stock HD, SSHD and SSD.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/PlayStation-4-PS4-HDD-SSHD-and-SSD-Performance-Testing

Found this bit interesting.

After running three different loads of AC IV, I saw some interesting data and wanted to investigate further, so I ran some more tests. Clearly, a pattern is revealing itself with the Seagate 1TB SSHD. After the first load, which we EXPECT to be slower with a hybrid drive as it loads data for the first time, the times decrease a bit in Run 2 and Run 3, but INCREASE again in Run 4. Then drop again in Run 5. And so on.

It would appear that with only 8GB of flash on the hybrid drive we are seeing some "rolling" data changes, possibly because the load for AC IV plus the OS files are going over the 8GB point. This effect might not show up in other games going forward depending on the amount of data required, or might be common across most games going forward. We'll have to see how performance moves going forward but clearly the SSHD leaves some questions for us on performance.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Interesting article comparing the stock HD, SSHD and SSD.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/PlayStation-4-PS4-HDD-SSHD-and-SSD-Performance-Testing

Found this bit interesting.

Very interesting. And kinda what I expected. I think the OCD in me would prefer the more predictable speeds of a 7200RPM drive - or just wait until SSD's come down a bit more.

 

[mylasthope]

Interesting article comparing the stock HD, SSHD and SSD.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/PlayStation-4-PS4-HDD-SSHD-and-SSD-Performance-Testing

Found this bit interesting.

Very interesting. And kinda what I expected. I think the OCD in me would prefer the more predictable speeds of a 7200RPM drive - or just wait until SSD's come down a bit more.

Yeah. It looks like load times would not improve if unless you play the same game over and over. Sucks if you play AC4 and then decide to play NBA. =/

 

[Brohan]

Can't watch this where I am. Overall which performs better, 7200rpm HDD or 5400rpm SSHD?

Overall the SSHD is much better in cases where the 8gb flash gets used (gets very close to SSDs in some cases), in cases where the 8gb flash is useless it sticks close(HD Tune benchmark Read average 90 MB) to the scorpio black 7200rpm drive (104MB read average) which is a pretty decent 7200rpm drive i think.

So all in all the Seagate 5400rpm SSHD is a much better choice than 7200rpm drives.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

So all in all the Seagate 5400rpm SSHD is a much better choice than 7200rpm drives.

But is it unreasonable of me to not trust benchmarks from a Windows/PC environment?

 

[Brohan]

But is it unreasonable of me to not trust benchmarks from a Windows/PC environment?

Yeah, i think that would be unreasonable. Check Nibs post and that vid a bit further back in the thread. It shows the smart caching system of these SSHDs work just fine on the PS4.

The SSHDs performance could be further improved by having a bigger cache but at the same time the results with only 8GB cache seems pretty good already, alot better than normal 5400rpm or 7200rpm drives atleast.

 

[Lostconfused]

Yeah. It looks like load times would not improve if unless you play the same game over and over. Sucks if you play AC4 and then decide to play NBA. =/

Unless you play the entire game in a single sitting never hitting a load screen ever again, the load times will improve.

 

[Guymelef]

Nobody tried something like this yet??

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Unless you play the entire game in a single sitting never hitting a load screen ever again, the load times will improve.

But what about in-game loading of levels and such? Stuff that (theoretically?) would never be in the cache to begin with. Wouldn't a faster RPM drive be better for that?

 

[PoweredBySoy]

Yeah, i think that would be unreasonable. Check Nibs post and that vid a bit further back in the thread. It shows the smart caching system of these SSHDs work just fine on the PS4.

I agree that it works, but I'm also looking at the chart just posted, and how, on the PS4, load times fluctuate pretty heavily.

 

[Brohan]

But what about in-game loading of levels and such? Stuff that (theoretically?) would never be in the cache to begin with. Wouldn't a faster RPM drive be better for that?

Assets in the game would get cached and because different levels often still use the same assets loading times would be better with an SSHD aswell. I think so at least.

I agree that it works, but I'm also looking at the chart just posted, and how, on the PS4, load times fluctuate pretty heavily.

This is most likely because the 8GB cache size is falling a bit short, but id still argue that overall the loading times are decreased significantly, most likely beating a 7200rpm drive in most cases if not all cases.

A small plus for going with a 7200rpm drive would be that the loading times would be a steady number instead of fluctuating a bit.

One last edit: load times would fluctuate on a Windows PC aswell, simply because of the way the caching works, more Ram would alleviate this problem.

 

[Final Boss]

Yeah. It looks like load times would not improve if unless you play the same game over and over. Sucks if you play AC4 and then decide to play NBA. =/

That's my concern, I bought KZ, AC4 and 2k14. I won't be switching between KZ and AC4 but I will always be switching between one of those games and 2k14, so would I then not notice any improvement?

 

[Brohan]

That's my concern, I bought KZ, AC4 and 2k14. I won't be switching between KZ and AC4 but I will always be switching between one of those games and 2k14, so would I then not notice any improvement?

It caches your most used apps, if you play alot of different things it will just cache smaller pieces of each app i reckon, so the advantage would be (much?) smaller but it would still be there.

 

[nib95]

Assets in the game would get cached and because different levels often still use the same assets loading times would be better with an SSHD aswell. I think so at least.



This is most likely because the 8GB cache size is falling a bit short, but id still argue that overall the loading times are decreased significantly, most likely beating a 7200rpm drive in most cases if not all cases.

A small plus for going with a 7200rpm drive would be that the loading times would be a steady number instead of fluctuating a bit.

One last edit: load times would fluctuate on a Windows PC aswell, simply because of the way the caching works, more Ram would alleviate this problem.

It caches your most used apps, if you play alot of different things it will just cache smaller pieces of each app i reckon, so the advantage would be (much?) smaller but it would still be there.

I appreciate that in theory that could be the case, but it's just theory. Based on the results we have at present, they are performing roughly the same, only with the 7200rpm being a bit more consistent, and having a boot from stand by advantage. So really it's too early to say. Gaming and regular PC/Windows environment use are two different things. The SSHD doesn't just have to worry about the games, but a constant recording (15 min history) too, which might affect things further.

We need a direct 7200rpm HDD vs 5400rpm SSHD comparison before summarising anything conclusively.

 

[PoweredBySoy]

One last edit: load times would fluctuate on a Windows PC aswell, simply because of the way the caching works, more Ram would alleviate this problem.

True, but I was just curious how much the SSD cache relies upon a 6GB/s sata, or drivers, or something else... which I why I was a little leery of the Windows benchmarks. Stuff a PS4 wouldn't have.

 

[cormack12]

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the charts. Use cases and drives will be of different spec. More platters will affect data density per head. DRAM cache size will affect write-back (Not so much between 32/64). Game use and persistent NAND won't really settle until a month in, I'd harbour. And even then it's going to change when you get new games.

I agree 8GB isn't much when looking at these use cases but the cost/performance can't be beaten in my opinion.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Whats up with the times in the OP?

My PS4 takes 15 seconds to get to the Health and Safety warning and then @ 21 seconds its asking me to select a profile (fully booted). How did you get 36 seconds?

 

[demigod]

Just saw your post in that other thread SRTtoZ. Yeah something is wrong with OP's boot time. Mine is around 23seconds from a cold boot.

 

[despire]

So what's the verdict on the SSHD? Is it worth waiting for the WD one or should I just pop the Seagate one in straight away. Still on the fence whether I should wait a few months or not..

 

[PrintedCrayon]

As someone who plans on playing a variety of games, would it be more advisable to pick up the Samsung SSD? It seems with an SSHD it only benefits playing the same game over and over (though perhaps system level stuff might benefit from an SSHD)

The only thing really stopping me picking up the 840 EVO is its enormous price tag. Though I am hoping the price might drop by the time I pick up my PS4. (A man can dream, right?)

 

[Monty Mole]

So I've bought the following drive in anticipation of my PS4 next week.

Seagate ST1000LM014 Momentus XT 2.5" SATA Solid State Hybrid Drive - 1TB Slim 9.5mm - 64MB Cache
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1tb-...solid-state-hybrid-drive-sata-6gbs-64mb-cache

Did I make a good or terrible choice?

 

[Raist]

Interesting article comparing the stock HD, SSHD and SSD.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/General-Tech/PlayStation-4-PS4-HDD-SSHD-and-SSD-Performance-Testing

Found this bit interesting.

Have these guys heard of statistical noise?

So I've bought the following drive in anticipation of my PS4 next week.

Seagate ST1000LM014 Momentus XT 2.5" SATA Solid State Hybrid Drive - 1TB Slim 9.5mm - 64MB Cache
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1tb-...solid-state-hybrid-drive-sata-6gbs-64mb-cache

Did I make a good or terrible choice?

This particular drive's in the table in the OP. Seems like a good choice.

 

[mrklaw]

So I've bought the following drive in anticipation of my PS4 next week.

Seagate ST1000LM014 Momentus XT 2.5" SATA Solid State Hybrid Drive - 1TB Slim 9.5mm - 64MB Cache
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/1tb-...solid-state-hybrid-drive-sata-6gbs-64mb-cache

Did I make a good or terrible choice?

you chose.....wisely.

Mine should be coming tomorrow (got mine from scan too) - does someone have a link to the recovery software?

 

[Rainy Dog]

Does anyone know whether more cache will aid performance?

I ended up going for size over performance and went with a HGST 1.5tb 5400rpm drive. But it does have a 32mb cache compared to most 5400rpm drives which only have 8mb.

 

[Jonesy7707]

you chose.....wisely.

Mine should be coming tomorrow (got mine from scan too) - does someone have a link to the recovery software?

http://us.playstation.com/support/systemupdates/ps4/pc_update/index.htm

 

[Loomba]

Has anyone further tested the Toshiba 5400 1tb Hybrid?

It can't be that good all the time, right? Else why isn't everyone buying it?

 

[Bundy]

So is there even a 1.5TB or 2TB HDD out there which fits into the PS4? (which you can buy already!)
Can't find one.

 

[Monty Mole]

you chose.....wisely.

Mine should be coming tomorrow (got mine from scan too) - does someone have a link to the recovery software?

Yay!

I picked mine up from Scan this morning at their sales depot near Bolton. Now I just need a PS4 to stick it in

 

[Fahrenheit]

Still waiting one 1.5-2tb SSHD that will fit in the PS4, Seagate gots one coming right?

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Yay!

I picked mine up from Scan this morning at their sales depot near Bolton. Now I just need a PS4 to stick it in

I was just about to hit go on the same drive when i saw mrklaw and your posts.
Neat, i'll definitely go for one of these Momentus drives.

 

[Brohan]

I appreciate that in theory that could be the case, but it's just theory. Based on the results we have at present, they are performing roughly the same, only with the 7200rpm being a bit more consistent, and having a boot from stand by advantage. So really it's too early to say. Gaming and regular PC/Windows environment use are two different things. The SSHD doesn't just have to worry about the games, but a constant recording (15 min history) too, which might affect things further.

We need a direct 7200rpm HDD vs 5400rpm SSHD comparison before summarising anything conclusively.

Point taken, i was indeed getting Very theoretical. We do need some solid Ps4 specific benchmarks to know for sure.

 

[nib95]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either. We need more game specific boot times for both too.

 

[Jonesy7707]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either.

Yep, that would be greatly appreciated as these are the two I have narrowed it down to.

Over here the ST1000LM014 is $139 and the 7K1000 is $93 so it's not much but if there is no need to spend almost $50 more for limited advantages, I don't see any reason to.

 

[derwalde]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either. We need more game specific boot times for both too.

i will, if ill survive the waiting till the 29. (

 

[Adamm]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either. We need more game specific boot times for both too.

I think a lot of those who ordered are in Europe and just planning ahead (like myself)

All the US folk must be too busy playing to test

 

[Brohan]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either. We need more game specific boot times for both too.

Will do, am going for the ST1000LM014 and will start posting updates after the 29th.
Would start on the 29th but going to a concert of Queens of the Stone age (cant wait!).

 

[Maxrunner]

So Ps4 doesn't support SSD's decently???

 

[Brohan]

Has anyone further tested the Toshiba 5400 1tb Hybrid?

It can't be that good all the time, right? Else why isn't everyone buying it?

The Toshiba hybrid scored alot lower in pretty much all benchmarks compared to the Seagate hybrid in that vid i posted, so if going for a SSHD id go for the Seagate.

 

[Bojanglez]

Seeing as how a fair few have now ordered the ST1000LM014, please post your speeds if you can. More 7K1000 can't hurt either. We need more game specific boot times for both too.

Like the others, I will do when I get my PS4 on the 29th

 

[Final Boss]

Wish OP chart was updated

 

[Bundy]

So is there even a 1.5TB or 2TB HDD out there which fits into the PS4? (which you can buy already!)
Can't find one.

Anyone?

 

[Brohan]

Anyone?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00EDIU5IW/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[Cronnie]

Well this has worked out nicely then, I actually have the ST1000LM014 installed in my laptop right now, so when I pick up my PS4 I can stick that in there and get myself a proper SSD for my laptop.