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Xbox One's Scaler May Be Applying a Sharpening Filter to All Sub-1080p Games
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
Sithlord77
Banned
This is odd after reading this thread I tried switching between 1080p and 720p in XB1 settings and used Dead Rising 3, KI and AC4 to test. Honestly I could not notice any difference. My TV said 720p when I switched just for reference. But anyway I don't know if this is a good or bad thing that I can't see a difference? What am I actually looking for? The games look the same still on whichever resolution. The dashboard looks a bit blurrier but that's to be expected.
Anyway on either resolution, AC4 looks great doesn't look jaggier when set to 1080p, DR3 looks ok a bit dark maybe and KI looks like a crushed blacks jaggie mess on either resolution. My sharpness settings are turned way down to something like 10/100. So if I turn it to 1080p on 720p games it's supposed to be really jaggie right? I don't get it. I don't see this massive difference at all. It looks identical. I have a Samsung LED D7000 55"
Also I'm using RGB limited as if I do RGB FULL it crushes the blacks badly. I ain't gonna do it to RGB full and turn brightness up on TV as this input is for other devices too and it's balanced perfectly for everything tbh. I dunno what the problem is here.
Anyway on either resolution, AC4 looks great doesn't look jaggier when set to 1080p, DR3 looks ok a bit dark maybe and KI looks like a crushed blacks jaggie mess on either resolution. My sharpness settings are turned way down to something like 10/100. So if I turn it to 1080p on 720p games it's supposed to be really jaggie right? I don't get it. I don't see this massive difference at all. It looks identical. I have a Samsung LED D7000 55"
Also I'm using RGB limited as if I do RGB FULL it crushes the blacks badly. I ain't gonna do it to RGB full and turn brightness up on TV as this input is for other devices too and it's balanced perfectly for everything tbh. I dunno what the problem is here.
SyenceLabb
Member
Can someone explain to me why Ryse doesn't use this magic xbone scaler?
The game is scaled internally.
opticalmace
Member
The game upscales in-engine, so the system sees a 1080p signal.
SyenceLabb
Member
So that means game devs have a choice of using this scaler or not....... So......
*awkward moment*
What's the problem?
It's easier to just use the pre-built option rather than coding it yourself so lots of devs will obviously do so.
It seems that, like with the Xbox 360, only some devs are allowed to circumvent the filter. All multiplat games have the sharpening in effect, so it's very likely that Microsoft is mandating it.
Software Scaler takes up resources/man power that would otherwise be useful somewhere else.
Ricerocket
Member
Just that games will look terribly sharpened? Multiplatform games aren't going to be doing a special case scenario like Ryse did.
They gave enough trouble getting their games to run well at 720p or 900p. They should be able to rely on a hardware scaler to work properly, not have to spend development resources to work around it.
I see such arguments all of the time. Sorry but, what is this based on exactly?
Not based in reality, that's for sure. Unless he's specifically talking about Xbox.
Horsemama1956
Member
That actually sound pretty damn smart. Kind of like SweetFX.
They do for capture but I assume they play at their screens native res and only change the resolution for videos.
Yes or CPU, but GPU more likely. But it shouldnt be expensive, there are tons of games on current gen platforms that are scaled internally, like many games from Insomniac for example or Metro:LL upscales, then applies their postAA and then downscale their framebuffer.
Well, if you read my post, you'd see that I wrote MS needs to stop with the sharpen filter since there's going to be a lot of sub 1080p games on Xbox One. There isn't one 720p game on PS4 right now, nor on the horizon. And I don't believe PS4 would add a sharpen filter to the game if it were 720p.
So yeah. MS needs to stop with this sharpen bullshit. They should have designed their system better. They fucked up.
John Caboose
Member
Indeed they did. It just looks bad.
andromeduck
Member
not unless they don't mind losing some effects and frame rate along the way
Yes, but these are captures from our videos, not actual uncompressed screenshots we would have taken from the game. Not saying AC4 looks awesome on the One (it looks ok, not as good as the PS4 obviously, but I certainly wouldn't mind playing the game like that), but these shouldn't be used for quality comparisons.
The weird thing is, I'm hearing justifications that the XB1's issues will sort themselves out as developpers get more familiar with the system, and at the same time, PS4's games resolution will drop because... I'm not sure what is the "because" anyway.
I haven't played the game, but the XB1 screenshots of it in this thread quite simply look like ass. And I don't mean just the resolution -- despite making such sacrifices there, the shadows are weak, and the AO doesn't even come close to the real next-gen
PC
Yeah, I'm trying to wrap my head around that one, hah.
Here's another sharpening example...PS4 version first, then XB1 version.
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7528/ps4-ghosts.png
http://images.anandtech.com/doci/7528/xbone-ghosts.png
velociraptor
Junior Member
Is that 720p? Wow.
I don't care how graphically advanced a game is - I do not want to see any 720p games this generation.
Hidden One
Member
lol Microsoft trying to cheat the game.
Brianimaniac
Banned
Well, you're going to see a lot, so you're better off accepting that now.
DirgeExtinction
Member
Wow, big difference. I much prefer the softness of the PS4 version to the roughness of the XB1 version.
Honestly, I don't think we'll be seeing 720p on PS4. The lowest I think it'd get to would be 900p. As for the XB1...I think it might actually go sub-HD..
shungokusatsu
Member
Not possible to stop the xbone from scaling and instead allow your TV or receiver to do it?
Just set the bone to 720p, but you'd have to change it on a per game basis.
shungokusatsu
Member
Yeah that would work, but my receiver has a GPU option that allows it to override scaling from devices plugged into it. Likely on a per receiver basis, but it might work as well. Still, the sharpening is super shitty for a $500 device, but likely fixable with a firmware update.
Not on PS4.
John Caboose
Member
Yeah I really hope they update/fix it. Whenever I want to play Ghosts now I turn the Xbox to 720p.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I'm confident all PS4 exclusives will be 1080p. I'll get my multiplatforms on the PC instead.
It seemed like even set to 720p the XBO was still crushing the shit out of some games.
720p capture from the next-gen screencap thread:
Are we sure this is the scaler, and not something the console itself is doing? Same thing applies in DR3. People are turning the gamma all the way up, and even then it's still pretty fucking dark in some places.
It seemed like even set to 720p the XBO was still crushing the shit out of some games.
720p capture from the next-gen screencap thread:
Are we sure this is the scaler, and not something the console itself is doing? Same thing applies in DR3. People are turning the gamma all the way up, and even then it's still pretty fucking dark in some places.
Lemme guess. RGB is set to Full in that pic, isn't it? 720p output and Limited RGB won't produce that awful of an image. No way.
So does setting it to 720p 100% remove this sharpening filter?
I was playing around with it last night with the snap feature and going back and forth between fullscreen and the preview window on the home menu. I'm not sure how I did it but there was a point where I could play the game briefly without the filter (it'd always reset on a new loading VS screen on Killer Instinct) and this was fullscreen to.
They've made a seriously bad decision to add this filter as all it's doing is destroying detail, colour and contrast. When you see the detail on Glacius on his stage without the dark saturation it's genuinely impressive (yes even at upscaled 720p)
Add me to the list that hopes they remove it.
btw to clear things up it's not the upscaler or hardware that's doing this, It's a software filter that's being applied over the top of the image when a 720p game is restored to full screen.
I was playing around with it last night with the snap feature and going back and forth between fullscreen and the preview window on the home menu. I'm not sure how I did it but there was a point where I could play the game briefly without the filter (it'd always reset on a new loading VS screen on Killer Instinct) and this was fullscreen to.
They've made a seriously bad decision to add this filter as all it's doing is destroying detail, colour and contrast. When you see the detail on Glacius on his stage without the dark saturation it's genuinely impressive (yes even at upscaled 720p)
Add me to the list that hopes they remove it.
btw to clear things up it's not the upscaler or hardware that's doing this, It's a software filter that's being applied over the top of the image when a 720p game is restored to full screen.
John Caboose
Member
It seemed like even set to 720p the XBO was still crushing the shit out of some games.
720p capture from the next-gen screencap thread:
Are we sure this is the scaler, and not something the console itself is doing? Same thing applies in DR3. People are turning the gamma all the way up, and even then it's still pretty fucking dark in some places.
I'm with the other poster, most likely someone using Full when they should be using Limited.
I have no idea, but it's one of the very (very) few lossless direct-feed images of KI running at 720p. We don't exactly have a whole lot to work with right now. I'm almost tempted to go get an XBO and a nice capture card just to get some decent captures. Kind of weird that we've got virtually no real screens of games right now.
BlimBlim has lots of videos but no screenshots.
I'll try and do some screenshots in 720p and 1080p tomorrow.
First, read all the text - there's more below the picture of black and white lineart with a gray circle, so scroll down.
Then, scroll back up to the picture and look at your screen from a good distance. It should look uniformly gray (with a black and white line in the middle). If it does look gray but the circle in the middle is discernible, then your gamma settings are out of whack. Proceed to the next test on the top row on the site.
If it does not look gray, or has a discernible and consistent checkerboard pattern on it, then your screen/TV is applying a sharpness filter. You can doublecheck this by looking at the black and white line inside the circle from up close. Around it should be some weird halo. You might have to look at the surroundings of the line after putting a cardboard box cutout over the line itself.
Be sure to go through all the tests on that site to have a tiny chance to fix your config.
Yep.=p
Try it without.
GANGSTERKILLER
Member
And when you think it couldn't be any worse with the XBO then a eye opening thread like this is made! And we didn't see any "gaming journalists" of the biggest sites making a article about this issue.
Are they blind or something? Have they really no clue? It is ridicules. This is a HUGE problem.
This artificial scaling of the XBO on top of the already much lower resolution in almost all multiplatform games compared to the PS4 has put me off for good.
I'd rather buy a Wii U than this over expensive all-in-one system that destroys image quality.
I have the original Xbox and Xbox 360, I had a GREAT time with both but I just don't see the value in buying a XBO.
Are they blind or something? Have they really no clue? It is ridicules. This is a HUGE problem.
This artificial scaling of the XBO on top of the already much lower resolution in almost all multiplatform games compared to the PS4 has put me off for good.
I'd rather buy a Wii U than this over expensive all-in-one system that destroys image quality.
I have the original Xbox and Xbox 360, I had a GREAT time with both but I just don't see the value in buying a XBO.
Ah, then full range support is still broken? That's... super shitty. If this is a universal problem a PSA thread for xbone users would probably be helpful at some point.