They're fans commentating. This isn't ESPN. Lower your standards!
Man I don't know if you are trolling or not but there is definitely theory crafting in fighting games (especially the VS series most specifically MVC2/MVC3). And those games have a ton of creative freedom, more so than some RTS games and especially shooters. You are only correct in that fighting games mostly don't take the environment into the equation although some 3D fighters do now (like Tekken/DOA where the type of stage you fight in matter dictates the match a lot).Where is the theory crafting in fighting games? The variables in a game like dota 2 are immense and so are the results that can come from theory crafting. Does the game have the creative freedom that allows a great player to do something not even intended by the designers? Can you create a new move from combinations of existing moves? I'm not trying to put down fighting games here, they are very difficult at the top level and deserve their place in real honest competitive gaming unlike very low skill ceiling games like Halo or COD. But they do not compare to the skill ceilings of games like Starcraft 2, Dota 2, Quake, and CS. Fighting games take environment and any theory crafting and almost all creativity out of the picture.
No it is not simply doing things without rhyme or reason. The important aspect for that term is that they blame the game rather than their own incompetence. That is why it is a derogatory term. At some point, a bunch of people came and warped the meaning behind the word and just throw it around to label a variety of people. That is the kind of thing that makes other people label the "FGC" as elitist.
No it is not simply doing things without rhyme or reason. The important aspect for that term is that they blame the game rather than their own incompetence. That is why it is a derogatory term. At some point, a bunch of people came and warped the meaning behind the word and just throw it around to label a variety of people. That is the kind of thing that makes other people label the "FGC" as elitist.
ding ding dingOh. You're talking about the difference in 'Scrub attitude" and "Scrub play." Different things to me.
Man I don't know if you are trolling or not but there is definitely theory crafting in fighting games (especially the VS series most specifically MVC2/MVC3). And those games have a ton of creative freedom, more so than some RTS games and especially shooters. You are only correct in that fighting games mostly don't take the environment into the equation although some 3D fighters do now (like Tekken/DOA where the type of stage you fight in matter dictates the match a lot).
The skill level in fighting games is at least comparable to shooters and also comparable to the MOBA games maybe even higher. Its not at the level of RTS because of the macro involved but the execution requirement in fighting games is a lot as is the requirement for reflexes, fundamentals, mind games and knowledge.
If you want to see some example of theory crafting in fighting games then just read these blogs:
Team Nemo breakdown
Wesker's Last Stand team theory craft part 1 and part 2
These are just a small example of theory crafting in the game, a ton of thought and variables go into constructing a solid team for competitive play on top of having the proper skill to utilize it. Of course tier lists factor into the equation but tier lists/top characters factor into MOBAs as well so this is not an exclusive feature of fighting games.
I'm not sure what I find funnier. The excuse that he's too good at playing good players to beat someone who's "bad" at the game, or the fact that he was such a poor-sport about losing. No handshake and "good game" after? Really dude? Grow up.
I hope someone had a fresh diaper handy for him.
Are you a fucking idiot? Even if he did talk shit you wouldn't be able to hear it. There is no mics near the players. And its clear he just stood up, unplug his stick and walked away.
Also FSP isn't a pro. Hes just above average. Where is this idea of him being "pro" coming from?
Yes Wins > Style. That doesn't mean he didn't play scrubby.
How cute. Pretend to be an internet tough guy more. Maybe if you understood the game you would know why XF3 Vergil is considered scrubby.
I don't know what good that would've done, its not like he was going to look through all my posts for examples of fighting game theory crafting.dude, we pretty much just linked to your profile for theorycrafting
I never said that. I said in the instance of this video, same shit would have happened. You would absolutely be able to Mash dp through comparable block strings in, say, sf3s.
I agree with what you said, I just don't see how this video shows anything wrong with sf4 as vocab was saying.
Currently in MTG there's a deck that's really fun and I've love to play....except that it can't beat Mono-Red. And thus, it is completely useless because it can't scrub-bust in the early rounds of a tournament.Highly metagamed tcgs are susceptible to this as well. Decks are built to be consistent and face a metagame of other consistent decks. An absolutely cruddy deck with some janky combo can come out of nowhere and get some free wins at big tourneys because other decks just aren't built with the expectation of having to play against such terrible decks. They rarely win whole tourneys, though, since, being cruddy decks, they don't have the consistency to beat everyone, just the ability to get the odd surprise wins.
Maybe I'm just weird thinking that it's a gesture of good sportsmanship. Even when my team gets its ass kicked in ice hockey (real life, not video game), we still give respect where it's due and do handshakes after.what the shit? Why does anybody have to say GG or handshake after anything? Its not a poor sport. It shouldn't be the standard as well.
I totally agree. I'm all for kindness and respect and human decency. I'm just saying I'm not expecting a professional production here because, well, why would we? It'd be nice, sure.I thought DreamHack was a major event even sponsored? I'm used to commentators having fun at locals, weeklies & get togethers, but if that's the way he plays, the commentators shouldn't be disrespecting the way he plays, especially considering he may be able to hear it. That's all
OK, I can see where you're coming from. If blacktop skirmishes and street-level machismo and trash talk is how the scene wants to be seen, so be it. But if it wants to grow beyond that image, some measure of honor, humility and sportsmanship would go a long way. Or at the very least, letting your actions (a.k.a. winning) speak louder than your words (dismissals like the phrase "scrub").Kimpsabae said:Try playing a sport within an inner-city environment - then get back to me.
FGC minority representation is indicative of the same bootstraps, no-holds-barred, anything goes, inner-city youth culture that you would find on a blacktop in Harlem NY (for i.e.). Part of that culture migrated to arcades in the 90s and now comprises an important (and dying) part of the modern FGC. It's still growing up. Give it time.
I thought DreamHack was a major event even sponsored? I'm used to commentators having fun at locals, weeklies & get togethers, but if that's the way he plays, the commentators shouldn't be disrespecting the way he plays, especially considering he may be able to hear it. That's all
I don't know what good that would've done, its not like he was going to look through all my posts for examples of fighting game theory crafting.
Nope. I don't shake hands with anybody unless I am impress by their play. Even if I lose, if I think they are only slightly better than me or rely on gimmicks then fuck out of here. Shaking hands are only reserved for people that I respect and I don't respect shitty random play.
Words change meaning over time. Trying to hang on to one definition is kind of silly. The scrub you're referring to is as I said in my edit, "scrubby attitude" blaming the game for shortcomings. "Scrubby play" is what we're referring to.
For reference, I've heard it used this used in other non-FGC game communities so it's not something unique to fighting games.
ding ding ding
We're talking about scrub play. We don't know what his fucking attitude is because we haven't heard a thing from him.
Also never once did I say a player using vergil xf3 was scrubby. I said that it was scrubby play. There are counters to it, but that doesn't mean vergil xf3 is not retardedly broken and scrubby.
my contribution
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IjFsbQOK-0
Maybe I'm just weird thinking that it's a gesture of good sportsmanship. Even when my team gets its ass kicked in ice hockey (real life, not video game), we still give respect where it's due and do handshakes after.
I got bodied at EVO on stream by Infiltration. I haven't been able to find the index yet. I was a lot shook because I had to fight Infiltration and played like ass, like...worse than I've ever played. Missing sonic booms bad, but I could hear the commentators talking ish about me. It was funny, made me laugh. I guess it depends on the player, but it's what I've grown up with in the FGC. Play shitty, get called out on shitty play. lol
But man...I got mollywhopped.
Simmer down fella, well it looks like you only watched the end of the match and not the whole thing. Again, why is that scrubby? its his style and it gets him wins. Why does he have to abide by your rules to not be considered scrubby. Maybe you need to take a long look in the mirror before you accuse anyone of being scrubby or an internet tough guy. because in this entire thread, you made yourself look like a dick
A Level 3 XF Vergil is scrubby? I don't even play Vergil but that statement sounds pretty scrubtastic. Don't like getting crossed up? Learn to block.
A LVL3 XF Vergil is pretty top tier and easy to execute hence why he is labelled as scrubby but I disagree with the statement that there is no such thing as smart Vergil play. When the juice runs out, the players who finish a match with Vergil are the ones who play smart and especially the ones who realize that XF3 Vergil is not going to cut it and will bring him earlier to finish a match faster and play more honestly without XF.A Level 3 XF Vergil is scrubby? I don't even play Vergil but that statement sounds pretty scrubtastic. Don't like getting crossed up? Learn to block.
And if the other player loses to those "scrub" tactics, they're also a "scrub"But just know if you are doing random shit with no reasoning or logic behind it then it is scrubbbbbbbyyyyy
Because I am a dick, both offline and online. We already explain why it is scrubby. It has no reason or logic behind his moves. He is just pressing buttons.
O that mirror talk. Thanks. It does take one to know one. I was a scrub once and still do scrubby shit to win once in awhile. Thats why I can call him out for it. Any veteran fighting game player has been through that road of being a scrub and the experience of being experience and occasionally losing to scrub tactics (online ken/zangief).
There is no "rules". Why the fuck does this keep getting brought up? There are no fucking rules. do whatever you want. But just know if you are doing random shit with no reasoning or logic behind it then it is scrubbbbbbbyyyyy
You didn't dispprove anything. All you did was show that FSP played like an idiot.case in point, again, why does he need to play in your realm of rules? If his style of play is mashing buttons, well maybe the game devs should not make it so easy to mash buttons, eh?
THANKS FOR CLEARING UP MY POINT AGAIN. keep crying bout the match. Guy got his ass handed to him by a guy "just pushing buttons" as you put it. Who's the scrubby one exactly?
In context to this set then yes. FSP played very badly. Nobody is saying he didn't play like shit.And if the other player loses to those "scrub" tactics, they're also a "scrub"
A Level 3 XF Vergil is scrubby? I don't even play Vergil but that statement sounds pretty scrubtastic. Don't like getting crossed up? Learn to block.
A Level 3 XF Vergil is scrubby? I don't even play Vergil but that statement sounds pretty scrubtastic. Don't like getting crossed up? Learn to block.
I've seen this myth about chess a few times and it's absolutely not true. There's nothing easier to beat than a complete newb at the game. Randomness just doesn't work in chess at all, especially since just 1 stupid move can cost you the game. And the inexperienced player will make LOTS of those in a single game. I'd go as far as saying it's completely impossible for the master to lose.
Have no clue about fencing though.
You're wrong about poker though. There are clearly incorrect plays and the pros are right to get pissed. In poker you can always get lucky, but if you were chasing a 1/100 draw and got it, it doesn't mean you played it right. You would have lost 99 out of a 100 times and that's what the pros are pointing out. It was a bad decision and just luck saved you.
I can't help but feel like half the people here are projecting themselves onto Ghandi because they play fighting games like him.
I am very well aware that it is not just used in fighting games. It is also true that words change meaning over time, but do you really want a word that was meant to make fun of someone that deserved to be made fun of to become a term to label everyone that just plays a game poorly? People didn't call anyone scrub back in the day without the intention to get a rise out of them. People don't deserve to be labeled that way just because "oh hey, we just kinda feel like using this word for this now." THAT is the obnoxious aspect of it that I'm talking about.
OK, I can see where you're coming from. If blacktop skirmishes and street-level machismo and trash talk is how the scene wants to be seen, so be it.
A Level 3 XF Vergil is scrubby? I don't even play Vergil but that statement sounds pretty scrubtastic. Don't like getting crossed up? Learn to block.
Safe 50/50 that leads to advantage situation for vergil when you block. Safe crossup that is hard to react to. Nullify neutral game with SS. Nullify projectiles with normals. Helm breaker's hitbox. Random crossup super. Stupid long ass normal.
I think you're crossing streams here. A "scrubby play" Scrub is not an indictment of the individual being a bad person but that their play is unrefined and wild. The "scrubby attitude" Scrub IS one though and generally kind of icky. The "scrubby attitude" version has gotten a lot less usage in the FGC over the years for a variety of reasons.
OK, I can see where you're coming from. If blacktop skirmishes and street-level machismo and trash talk is how the scene wants to be seen, so be it. But if it wants to grow beyond that image, some measure of honor, humility and sportsmanship would go a long way. Or at the very least, letting your actions (a.k.a. winning) speak louder than your words (dismissals like the phrase "scrub").