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Sonic the Hedgehog Community Thread |OT3 & Knuckles|

Komo

Banned
I used to play Sonic Heroes a lot when I was younger, and so I'll admit I haven't finished very many Sonic games.
Currently, I'm -just about- to beat Sonic 2, and whilst I found it 'boring' and 'dull' at first, I now see it as one of the best sequels to a game ever.
Totally digging it, yo. So, Sonic 2 is my favorite currently.

Gonna be moving onto Sonic 3 whenever I manage to beat Robotnik at Wing Fortress Zone, lol.
 

TheOGB

Banned
I'd like to see a top tier fighting developer take a crack at the customizable character angle. Making it balanced would be hard but the whole card system with emerl had the potential for great depth, the problem with battle was making 2d sprites fight in a semi-3d arena. I still enjoyed it, but the lost potential there saddens me. Transformed on the other hand is Kart racing bliss.
Well, there is Tekken's Combot
250px-1Combot.png
 

BlackJace

Member
Oh yeah, Sonic Battle was great. Shame it was a one-off. Though the story was a bit repetitive at times. I got so sick of fighting the Emerl and Gamma recolors.
 
I'd only ever played SA2 Battle on the GC, so I had no idea that Big made cameos like that in the original version. Scared the shit outta me too when he pops up in the PSN version, even with the Battle DLC.
I wonder why they took him out of the Gamecube version.
 

Shearie

Member
I bought Sonic 1, 2, and CD on iOS since they were on sale for a buck each and because I've heard great things about the ports. HUGE fan of Genesis Sonic when I was a kid. Never owned Sonic 1 but played the shit out of my friends' copies whenever I had the chance. Sonic 2 is one of my favorite games of all time and I remember being obsessed with it at the time of release.

As for Sonic CD, I've now FINALLY played it after all this years. I remember looking at this game in magazines when I was a kid and was DYING to own it even though at the time I knew the Sega CD was PURE SHIT with only that one (seemingly) great game. I never even bothered asking my parents for a Sega CD because I couldn't even justify it to myself for them to spend all that money on me for one game.

So playing this now I was expected to not think highly of it since I've heard mixed things about the level design and these were impulse purchases almost purely based on nostalgia and I wasn't even sure grownup me would like old-ass Sonic games anymore. Well I was surprised to figure out that the Sonic's I've played before are still great and CD is as awesome as I ever hoped for (sans the corny FMV).

Now I'm absolutely sure that if I played CD when it was released that my mind would have been blown completely out of my ass because I'm impressed by almost all aspects of the game now. I think this is probably the best looking Genesis Sonic game even though it's still the familiar art design. There's just some indescribable (at least by me) something that makes the graphics pop more. The music is fantastic and there's two awesome soundtracks to switch between. And I actually like the different approach to the level design with the emphasis on exploring the past to find the robot generators for the good ending. Stages have good variety, I enjoyed most of the bosses, and I even like the bonus stages. So far I've only gotten the bad ending and after I get the good one by robot generator route I'm going to go for the Time Attack achievement.

Now that I have my long standing Sonic CD wish fulfillment completed, there's one more left: Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I had 3 when it came out and loved it but my parents never got me the Knuckles lock-on cart. Here's hoping that it gets a great iOS port too.
 

PKrockin

Member
I held out hope for a DS Sonic Battle sequel for so long, but alas...

Favorite Sonic is definitely 3&K. Sonic 2 starts out great but I start getting tired of it by Oil Ocean Zone. 3&K's additions of the split second shield and elemental shields add a lot of variety to Sonic's moveset. Then you've got the music and design differences in Act 1 and 2, the transition scenes between zones, reasonable special stages, and the climactic later part of the game.
 

Noi

Member
So a friend of mine bought a PS3 bundle and gave me the copy of Batman Origins that came with it. The last game I played was Asylum, having not played City because I knew a GOTY version would come out but then it did and the cover was fuck ugly so I never got it. Origins is a prequel, so I figured it was fine to play this before City.

So far it feels very... by the numbers, so to speak. I'm comparing it to Asylum, but the atmosphere seems to have taken a major it (the lighting in the initial area for Asylum easilly beats out anything I've seen so far here), combat doesn't feel as weighty as it did (punches don't feel as weighty as they did before and lack impact) and I'm rushed through an introduction of Batman's basic toolset that felt really forced (hit the big red buttons with your batarangs) than subtle. The game feels very... comic book-y, which would be weird because it's Batman, but part of the reason I liked Asylum a lot is because of how it portrayed itself as a lot more serious/creepy/grounded on reality than you'd expect a game based on a comic book character to do so.

Like, this is what Killer Croc looks like in Asylum. His encounter is later in the game, and he actively stalks you in a really creepy manner as you as you search his lair for a way to get out. You never truly beat him, hell you can't even fight him directly, you just make him fall down a hole while he swears that he'll get you next time.

In Arkham Origins Killer Croc looks like this. You fist fight him on a jail rooftop while he sics goons on you from a helicopter and throws flaming barrels at you not even an hour into the game.

I'm hoping the game bets better, but this initial impression is pretty weak. The edited cover for the game seems pretty accurate:
 

FSLink

Banned
Yeesh, wtf with that Killer Croc design in Origins. Haven't played it yet, but I'll forever be disappointed that it wasn't a 60s style Batman game with Pow bubbles and Adam West galore.

Sonic 4 Ep1 and 2 worth it for 99 cents on Android (well obviously at that price it's impulse worthy, but was wondering about impressions)? I already picked up the ports of 1, 2, and CD and didn't notice these were on sale as well.
 

BlackJace

Member
I don't get the placing on the pedestal that Super Mario 64 gets on Gaming Side. It's a great game, yes, but it has been topped.

I also hate how 3D Mario now has to have an emphasis on exploration because of 64...
 

qq more

Member
Mario 64 is still my favorite 3D Mario because of its gameplay style. I like Galaxy but outside of its presentation, I didn't feel it topped 64 and was rather its own kind of thing.

I'd like another 3D Mario in the vain of 64 for Wii U. That way we will now have both a 3D linear and a 3D open-world Mario in one console.
 

Sciz

Member
SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #88
Christmas Week!


Song: Diamond Dust Zone Act 1
Game: Sonic 3D (32-bit)
Composer: Richard Jacques

Today we've got an actual Sonic song! Will wonders never cease.

This isn't a sophisticated song by any means, but it's one of those that changes itself up just enough as it goes to stay interesting. And despite opening with a bar of "The Christmas Song" it's simply inspired by Christmas music instead of being a medley or cover like you might think at first. No less catchy, though.
 

BlackJace

Member
Mario 64 is still my favorite 3D Mario because of its gameplay style. I like Galaxy but outside of its presentation, I didn't feel it topped 64 and was rather its own kind of thing.

I'd like another 3D Mario in the vain of 64 for Wii U. That way we will now have both a 3D linear and a 3D open-world Mario in one console.

I guess so, it's just that I feel that games after 64 aren't given a fair shake because of how groundbreaking 64 was.
 

Noi

Member
I don't get the placing on the pedestal that Super Mario 64 gets on Gaming Side. It's a great game, yes, but it has been topped.

I also hate how 3D Mario now has to have an emphasis on exploration because of 64...

I don't think 3D Mario has to have an emphasis on exploration (as 3D Land and World show), but I do actually miss it. Even Galaxy, as great as it is, can almost be seen as course/level based due to how you're pretty much forced on a set path with every star you choose (and sequence breaking usually involves getting to that star faster/taking huge leaps of faith). I'm not surprised if people miss the days of N64/Sunshine's exploration where you could sequence break and get stars out of order as long as you knew what you were doing/how to do it.
 

BlackJace

Member
I don't think 3D Mario has to have an emphasis on exploration (as 3D Land and World show), but I do actually miss it. Even Galaxy, as great as it is, can almost be seen as course/level based due to how you're pretty much forced on a set path with every star you choose (and sequence breaking usually involves getting to that star faster/taking huge leaps of faith). I'm not surprised if people miss the days of N64/Sunshine's exploration where you could sequence break and get stars out of order as long as you knew what you were doing/how to do it.

Yeah, that's similar to what qq was saying. They're all valid points.
I don't know, I just feel like the running theme is that the linearity in recent games is inherently inferior/lazy to the exploration approach. I know that's not what you and qq think, but I guess I was just miffed that people were even saying that.

I actually just found my copy of SM 64 DS, go figure.
 
I don't get the placing on the pedestal that Super Mario 64 gets on Gaming Side. It's a great game, yes, but it has been topped.

I also hate how 3D Mario now has to have an emphasis on exploration because of 64...

It's a concept that I think should be revisited at some stage to refine it, with the near rapid fire releases of obstacle course styled entries across both 2D and 3D series as of late I could do with a switch up even if that is my preferred take.

But yes SM64 is an interesting one, its level design varies quite a bit in style across the game and sometimes I think people overlook its weaker moments, Dire Dire Docks is well...dire, the only thing I find interesting about Big Boo's Haunt (aside from the murderous piano) is using jumping skills to get to the upper floor before doing the ghost hunt, Hazy Maze Cave is a perfect example of the annoyance that comes from placing multiple power stars towards the back of a mostly enclosed stage layout and Rainbow Ride's waiting game really grates once you've had one trip on the carpets for just a few examples.
Meanwhile the game for me is at its best in the more vertical focused or wide open stages, the likes of Bob-Omb Battlefield, Whomp's Fortress, Tall Tall Mountain and Tick Tock Clock are some of my favourites and help make retreading old ground more enjoyable whether it's to do with more options in how to traverse the stage or simply having some more engaging platforming elements, stages like this give you the opportunity to make your own routes/shortcuts more than most (well not so much TTC) and that's where SM64 thrives.
Still for strictly platforming through obstacles it can leave a lot to be desired outside of a few spots, Its platforming mechanics offer tons of potential but unless you're one of the worlds top speedrunners odds are you wont be doing all the elaborate fancy stuff that only SM64 offers of the 3D games. But SM64 has one strong point still in this regard, the fact that it's simply fun to jump around, sure other Mario games have this as well but 64 really hits this point home with the extra finesse of control it wields.

I think if Nintendo went back to that style now they could top 64 quite handily with grander worlds offering more platforming now they're much improved with it in a 3D space and greater exploration, yeah okay Sunshine dropped the ball and that came after 64 but in this post Galaxy World I have pretty strong faith in those guys.

I don't know, I just feel like the running theme is that the linearity in recent games is inherently inferior/lazy to the exploration approach. I know that's not what you and qq think, but I guess I was just miffed that people were even saying that.

This can be a bit of a thing unfortunately, It may relate to the bigger is better idea where bigger in this case is a greater sense of vastness that comes from more open spaces and a freedom to explore even when there's not much to actually find.
Of course If people really want exploration over anything else in their mascot platformers then boy do I have some Rareware games for them!
 

BHZ Mayor

Member
Yeah, that's similar to what qq was saying. They're all valid points.
I don't know, I just feel like the running theme is that the linearity in recent games is inherently inferior/lazy to the exploration approach. I know that's not what you and qq think, but I guess I was just miffed that people were even saying that.

I actually just found my copy of SM 64 DS, go figure.

I actually liked the exploration of older 3D platformers and miss that aspect of it, and since 3D World is one of the only 3D platformers we're going to get period this generation, I understand feeling some kind of way that the one bone we get thrown is being used for yet another linear game.
 
This discussion has been in my head for months now and all I can think of was this: I don't hate linearity in 3D games, but If you're going to make a game 3D, than actually use that third dimension. If you're going to make it ultra linear, just make it 2D. It'll probably get a bigger audience and be better designed that way.
 

BlackJace

Member
It's a concept that I think should be revisited at some stage to refine it, with the near rapid fire releases of obstacle course styled entries across both 2D and 3D series as of late I could do with a switch up even if that is my preferred take.

But yes SM64 is an interesting one, its level design varies quite a bit in style across the game and sometimes I think people overlook its weaker moments, Dire Dire Docks is well...dire, the only thing I find interesting about Big Boo's Haunt (aside from the murderous piano) is using jumping skills to get to the upper floor before doing the ghost hunt, Hazy Maze Cave is a perfect example of the annoyance that comes from placing multiple power stars towards the back of a mostly enclosed stage layout and Rainbow Ride's waiting game really grates once you've had one trip on the carpets for just a few examples.
Meanwhile the game for me is at its best in the more vertical focused or wide open stages, the likes of Bob-Omb Battlefield, Whomp's Fortress, Tall Tall Mountain and Tick Tock Clock are some of my favourites and help make retreading old ground more enjoyable whether it's to do with more options in how to traverse the stage or simply having some more engaging platforming elements, stages like this give you the opportunity to make your own routes/shortcuts more than most (well not so much TTC) and that's where SM64 thrives.
Still for strictly platforming through obstacles it can leave a lot to be desired outside of a few spots, Its platforming mechanics offer tons of potential but unless you're one of the worlds top speedrunners odds are you wont be doing all the elaborate fancy stuff that only SM64 offers of the 3D games. But SM64 has one strong point still in this regard, the fact that it's simply fun to jump around, sure other Mario games have this as well but 64 really hits this point home with the extra finesse of control it wields.

I think if Nintendo went back to that style now they could top 64 quite handily with grander worlds offering more platforming now they're much improved with it in a 3D space and greater exploration, yeah okay Sunshine dropped the ball and that came after 64 but in this post Galaxy World I have pretty strong faith in those guys.



This can be a bit of a thing unfortunately, It may relate to the bigger is better idea where bigger in this case is a greater sense of vastness that comes from more open spaces and a freedom to explore even when there's not much to actually find.
Of course If people really want exploration over anything else in their mascot platformers then boy do I have some Rareware games for them!

As always, you seem to find the words to explain what I want to say haha. The different emphases seem to fill a different void that fans of the 3D titles enjoy. I suppose it was wrong of me to suggest that 64 was "topped". Going by what you said, I think its okay to say that they aim differently, so being topped really doesn't make any straight sense.

And I agree with the vertical stages being the coolest. Thomp's Fortress being one of my favorites. (I think that's why I liked Meteor Herd in SA2 so much!)

I actually liked the exploration of older 3D platformers and miss that aspect of it, and since 3D World is one of the only 3D platformers we're going to get period this generation, I understand feeling some kind of way that the one bone we get thrown is being used for yet another linear game.

I suppose this is fine as well; wanting another game in the vein of 64. I just took issue with certain claims that exploration is an inherently better practice; and that 3D is only defined by that. The exploration might make the game seem "bigger" and more ambitious, but then again, will something ever be as groundbreaking as 64 ever again? Especially considering the genre seems to be drying up.
 

FSLink

Banned
I just dislike it when people praise Mario 64 just for its atmosphere and other nonsense when it's obviously been topped in those areas by now by newer Mario games and then call 3D World uninspired when it has almost a different idea every level.

However, I do miss how acrobatic Mario was in 64 and Sunshine. 64 is a fun game to casually speed run just because of Mario's movement options.
 

qq more

Member
whether mario 64 is topped or not is subjective

although im not understanding the "immersive" being thrown around, i never saw mario 64 like that

i still think 64 is the best 3D mario, and this isnt speaking from nostalgia because i dont really let that affect how i enjoy games (and the nostalgia argument is kind of dumb anyways lol). i havent played much of sunshine so i cant say much about it.

i love galaxy but i hate replaying it because the first 20 minutes is tedious. also, i prefer the more open approach 64 has over the linearity of galaxy. i dont think the linearity is actually a flaw in galaxy, thats just a design choice and not a bad one at that, but it's not my favorite design. i have yet to play galaxy 2

i havent touched 3d world yet but it looks fantastic even though i wasnt so impressed with 3d land for some reason
 

PKrockin

Member
I don't get the placing on the pedestal that Super Mario 64 gets on Gaming Side. It's a great game, yes, but it has been topped.

I also hate how 3D Mario now has to have an emphasis on exploration because of 64...

They were already heading in that direction with Super Mario World when they lessened the effect of momentum in the controls and focused on the secret exits.

I prefer challenge based gameplay in 2D Mario and more open exploration based gameplay in 3D Mario, which is why I prefer SMB3 over World and SM64 over Galaxy. Galaxy was a bit disappointing because it was linear challenge-based levels like SMB3 but with a very slow Mario that had no nuance in his abilities/controls. I guess you had to restrict and slow it down a lot or else all the levels with tiny platforms would be like Tick Tock Clock for most people. It's blasphemy to say it but it made the game a bit boring, so I still haven't played Galaxy 2.
 
I haven't heard a better soundtrack for a 3D Mario since 64, honestly. That isn't to say that the other games have bad songs, but as a collective, 64 has way more memorable tracks.
 

Sciz

Member

Well that's my Christmas made.

I haven't heard a better soundtrack for a 3D Mario since 64, honestly. That isn't to say that the other games have bad songs, but as a collective, 64 has way more memorable tracks.

Kondo's work dropped straight off a cliff immediately upon the Gamecube's launch and he hasn't recovered since. And... well, I've vented about Yokota in here before.
 

Foffy

Banned
I'm asking this out of boredom and raw curiosity, but I feel I will be opening a hives nest in doing so. Seeing as there are so many Sonic titles, quite frankly, what is canon? I know that sounds absurd for a platforming series, but I was frankly curious. Figure it would be fun to spend some time doing stupid shit that doesn't really matter, and pry the minds of anyone who might also like to think about said stupid shit. :p

Without further ado, this is my guess at the "main" Sonic series and the order I think they flow.

Sonic the Hedgehog
Sonic the Hedgehog Game Gear (Totally separate game from the Genesis title)
Sonic CD (Features no spin dash; a screen implies Tails is in the next game)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2 Game Gear (First debut of Tails; totally different from the Genesis game)
Sonic the Hedgehog 2
Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Sonic Chaos
Knuckles Chaotix (Spin-off but introduces the Chaotix)
Sonic the Hedgehog Triple Trouble
Tails Adventure (Spin-off)
Sonic 3D Blast
Sonic Blast
Sonic Adventure DX
Sonic Adventure 2: Battle
Sonic Advance
Sonic Advance 2
Sonic Heroes
Sonic Battle (Spin-off that leads into Sonic Advance 3)
Sonic Advance 3
Sonic Rush
Shadow the Hedgehog (Spin-off)
Sonic 2006
Sonic and the Secret Rings (Spin-off)
Sonic Rush Adventure
Sonic Unleashed
Sonic and the Black Knight (Spin-off)
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I
Sonic Colors
Sonic Generations
Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode II
Sonic Lost World

I am pretty sure I omitted none of the main titles, and the spin-offs I listed are perhaps the only 'reasonable' additions, as they're all platformers or made by acknowledged developers for Sega such as Aspect or Dimps. Rivals and Rivals 2, while also being platformers were never released in Japan, as well as Sega absolutely ignoring the Bioware RPG. The less said about Riders and their mobile-only titles, the better. :p
 

Trying to play this but it gives no indication how, exactly. There's no install instructions. Dragging pirates.wad in to Zdoom seems to work but I get the feeling I'm using the wrong version of Zdoom because I keep seeing all of these objects around maps that look like <!>

I'm assuming they're for things like dynamic lights or whatever, but the version of Zdoom I grabbed from zdoom.org doesn't support them.

Edit: The credits thanked the creators of Gzdoom, which seems to be the right version
 

HUELEN10

Member
I haven't heard a better soundtrack for a 3D Mario since 64, honestly. That isn't to say that the other games have bad songs, but as a collective, 64 has way more memorable tracks.
More memorable than Galaxy?

Regardless, it is damned memorable. Sunshine's score (which IMO was superior than 64's) sadly isn't as memorable to me. I think 64's slide theme is a piece that might now be as recognizable and nostalgic to some as the main Mario theme. Heck, it got no fewer than 2 new renditions in the last year!

Btw, to keep it Sonic related...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0aIHWhkd40

Amazing no?
 

Sciz

Member
SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #89
Christmas Week!


Song: Dreams Dreams (Acapella ver.)
Game: Christmas NiGHTS
Composer: Tomoko Sasaki
Lyrics: Tomoko Sasaki (trans. Wornell Jones)
Arrangement: Marlon D. Saunders
Vocals: Marlon D. Saunders, Gabriel Morris, Issa Clemon

For the record, Marlon Saunders is also one of the vocalists in the original Unknown From M.E.

I've always liked the unique sound of acapella, but you hear it so rarely in VGM, so getting an acapella cover of a great track like Dreams Dreams really was a great Christmas present in an already generous game.
 

TheOGB

Banned
I'm asking this out of boredom and raw curiosity, but I feel I will be opening a hives nest in doing so. Seeing as there are so many Sonic titles, quite frankly, what is canon?
I think Wikipedia's list of main console games is "the canon canon," and going by Generations, at least:
Sonic 1
CD and 2 happen ambiguously at the same time; I don't think Sega decided which came first, but CD started development first iirc and makes more sense happening before 2
3&K
(Knuckles Chaotix and 3D Blast are vaguely canon)
Adventure (most everything from this point is canon)
Adv2
Heroes
Shadow is canon
06
Unleashed
Colors
Generations
Lost World

I'm not sure that the post-Adventure handheld games are "canon canon." Advance didn't have much of a plot, and Advance 2 didn't do much outside of introducing characters that were adopted into the main games; apparently that wasn't so much an act of continuity more than it was "We need to fill out these teams for Heroes"
"Who's friends with Amy?" "I dunno, Big?"
Battle and Advance 3 actually had plots and continuity between them and was pretty cool for it (I just realized the other day that Altar Emerald Zone's music uses the Holy Summit Map theme from Battle; I knew about the other Adv3/Battle music connections
Emerald Beach in Route 99, Central City in Sunset Hill, etc.
but didn't figure that one out until I heard both recently), but they still don't affect the main canon.
Rush continues vaguely from the Advance canon, with characters again being adopted elsewhere (to 06, then from 06 to Rivals, but 06 is its own mess and Rivals is Rivals). Rush Adventure follows, and that's pretty much it for this canon. Though in the DS version of Colors, Sonic asks Blaze how Marine is doing. Not sure how to take that, but it's there.

Sonic 4... I'd rather not even try to fit those in, but if we have to let's just say they both happen after 3&K.
 

qq more

Member
sonic lost world gets my vote as most disappointing game of the year (although not worst)


Some of my GOTY games in no order right now are:
Ace Attorney 5
Metal Gear Rising
Animal Crossing New Leaf
Saints Row IV
 

Sciz

Member
SonicGAF's Song of the Day - #90
Merry Christmas


Song: Merry Little Christmas
Game: NiGHTS into Dreams...
Composer: Tomoko Sasaki / Hugh Martin
Arrangement: Dale North

It's Dreams Dreams again, this time in the form of a classic OCR mix and seamlessly stapled to what would be a completely unrelated song if not for the existence of Christmas NiGHTS. It's warm and melancholy, and perfect for reflecting on another year gone past.

Merry Christmas, SonicGAF.
 

AniHawk

Member
Well, I did my GotY post, so hurry up and get to it Schala/Anihawk/Nocturnowl/etc.

Sonic Lost World just missed the cut

currently working on a link between worlds. then probably gone home, and then on to ys memories of celceta. w101 too before the deadline is up.

also played bit.trip runner 2 and forgot it was a 2013 game. it may hit the lower part of the list the way things are going.

oh and merry christmas, everyone!
 

Razzer

Member
bouy base galaxy is under-looked, i never got to fully appreciate the song until very recently

so freaking good

Merry Christmas sonicgaf! And galaxy has a bunch of great tunes, just some never get remembered because omg gusty garden so good!!! The soundtrack isn't varied enough for me overall compared to something like unleashed. Also these days I prefer electronic stuff to orchestra.
 
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