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"2014 will mark a renaissance for Sonic the Hedgehog"

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Hopefully we hear what the third WiiU Sonic game is here.

I really hope not. Lost World is the least I ever enjoyed a game. I would take the werehog levels over the sadistic level design. All I remeber of that game is raging over death in ridiculous levels. At least the final level of unleashed felt partially fair
 

Shojx

Member
At this point, perhaps a "renaissance" is what the Sonic series really needs to get back on it's feet. Does this mean they're planning a redesign in both character design and gameplay? Those Sonic cartoon silhouettes kind of creep me out a bit... so I really hope those designs will remain separate from the games.

I honestly don't know which direction I want the series to take. I miss when Sonic was "great". Oh well, I'm interested enough in whatever they're planning to reveal in the near future. If it doesn't look promising, then I'll ":(" and move on.
 
Speaking as a fan, I'm kinda excited for whatever SEGA is doing right now in the games department. As for the cartoon, I can't care for it, it'll probably suck. I liked Colors, Generations AND Lost World but none of them are "masterpieces". They are good games that are held back by a lot of weird choices.

Colors simplified gameplay as a whole and has some good ideas. The Wisps also work very well in this game. If it was a little more ambitious, with less filler levels and more interesting bosses it would be certainly the best 3D game.

Generations is the best 3D game but it's freaking short and has a pretty stupid storyline. Classic Sonic is cool but it doesn't even resemble the original MD games (bounce where?). While it's better than Sonic 4, I'm kinda surprised more people don't complain about the physics of this game.

As for Lost World, I can see why some people don't like it but I can't see it as a bad game. In gameplay, my main problem is how the game doesn't really explain how the controls work. The 3DS version has a tutorial that helps a little but the Wii U doesn't and I had to discover most of the Parkour\Wisp mechanics by trial and error.

But then, there's the storyline. I actually like the Deadly Six since the bring a CHANGE OF PACE. The problem is that the game doesn't explore the storyline itself and a lot of things are left on the air. Just a few that I can remember:
  • What is the Lost Hex?
  • Why are the Deadly Six there?
  • How did Eggman get the Magic Conch? Also, it could use a better name.
  • What the hell are Wisps doing there?
  • Did the Deadly Six simply
    die at the ending
    ?
I said that the story for Generations was stupid but that game never tries to tell a greater storyline, it's just an excuse to trip down the nostalgia lane. Lost World has some interesting elements but never tries to expand on them.

I would be OK seeing the Parkour mechanics return in the next game. Just explain them properly and flesh them out a little. It reminds me of Unleashed in that sense: had some good ideas but they were better used on latter entries (Colors and Generations)

Also, make Tails & Knuckles playable too.
 

Regiruler

Member
you mean you don't want a MEPHILIS THE HEDGEHOG toy?



god wut a badass
Not before I get my Solaris plushie.
I really hope not. Lost World is the least I ever enjoyed a game. I would take the werehog levels over the sadistic level design. All I remeber of that game is raging over death in ridiculous levels. At least the final level of unleashed felt partially fair
All of LWs problems have nothing to do with the Wii U itself, and many could be fixed simply with more polish and better information: the parkour system was its biggest strength.
 

shaowebb

Member
New cartoon thoughts from me.

No Sally = No sale.

She made the SatAM show work. Sonic has too many gaps in his pesonality and needs a strong foil as a co-star to balance him out. Sally did that and then some and I seriously doubt a stalker like Amy or his bros will be able to function as well in the roll of a foil as she did. Here's hoping they actually pay attention to this writing issue with this character. Its a major pitfall that all characters with ego have that needs addressed to make them bearable.
 
New cartoon thoughts from me.

No Sally = No sale.

She made the SatAM show work. Sonic has too many gaps in his pesonality and needs a strong foil as a co-star to balance him out. Sally did that and then some and I seriously doubt a stalker like Amy or his bros will be able to function as well in the roll of a foil as she did. Here's hoping they actually pay attention to this writing issue with this character. Its a major pitfall that all characters with ego have that needs addressed to make them bearable.

I think one of the writers was asked directly about whether Sally and co. were back, and he said he didn't really know anything about the old cartoons. So if Sally is back, they're basically writing her from scratch, or with whatever directive Sega gives them.
 
All they need to do is make:
Sonic, Sonic 2, Sonic 3 & Knuckles, Sonic CD, and Sonic R.

Redo these with New graphics and 60fps, sell all in a bundle for £40 or $40 and we have a sale right here
 
New cartoon thoughts from me.

No Sally = No sale.

She made the SatAM show work. Sonic has too many gaps in his pesonality and needs a strong foil as a co-star to balance him out. Sally did that and then some and I seriously doubt a stalker like Amy or his bros will be able to function as well in the roll of a foil as she did. Here's hoping they actually pay attention to this writing issue with this character. Its a major pitfall that all characters with ego have that needs addressed to make them bearable.

Eh. This is coming from someone who thinks the SatAM and early archie comics Sonic story was the best story Sonic has had. I really think they need to stop focusing on story and adding more new characters to the games for now. Focus on the gameplay since everything storywise added since like Sonic 3 has been a slide of shit with only a few barely reaching even "decent".
 
All of LWs problems have nothing to do with the Wii U itself, and many could be fixed simply with more polish and better information: the parkour system was its biggest strength.

True but I cant help but feel that another Wii-U Sonic game would try to carry more elements from Sonic Colors again and I guess that style just doesn't work for me. I found the two main entries on Wii and Wii-U to be a bit too slow. I'm just one of what I assume are a rare few that enjoyed the high speed levels Unleashed had when you wasn't being turned into a hairy steroid induced Sonic though.
 
All of LWs problems have nothing to do with the Wii U itself, and many could be fixed simply with more polish and better information: the parkour system was its biggest strength.

Seriously, if the next game doesn't improve on Lost Worlds parkour system I'll be pretty sad.

To make the game much better, they need to focus on one style of play, 3D platforming. Make movement feel more natural, momentum, acceleration, ect. Cut out the game wide gimmicks (wisps) and stick to level gimmicks.
 
But then, there's the storyline. I actually like the Deadly Six since the bring a CHANGE OF PACE. The problem is that the game doesn't explore the storyline itself and a lot of things are left on the air. Just a few that I can remember:
  • What is the Lost Hex?
  • Why are the Deadly Six there?
  • How did Eggman get the Magic Conch? Also, it could use a better name.
  • What the hell are Wisps doing there?
  • Did the Deadly Six simply
    die at the ending
    ?
I said that the story for Generations was stupid but that game never tries to tell a greater storyline, it's just an excuse to trip down the nostalgia lane. Lost World has some interesting elements but never tries to expand on them.

The ones that began to bother me were

  • How long had Eggman been working with the Deadly Six?
  • Why would he need to work with them if it was established that this Lost Hex planetoid thing was super crazy well hidden? The only reason Sonic found it is because Eggman basically lead him right to it. But that only happened because Eggman was gathering resources to build an army that would fight Sonic. Uhhh...
  • If the Deadly Six can control robots, why is it only ever referenced once and never again? And why aren't Eggman's robot sidekicks effected?
  • The leader of the Deadly Six sets up the little blue guy as his "master", the one who taught him everything. For as much importance as they initially place on him, he's barely important to anything.
  • Tails willfully allows the Deadly Six to graft all of these robot parts on to him, like a knockoff Megabuster and whatever. When Tails reveals he still has his free will, The Deadly Six act afraid of him. Despite this, he doesn't use any of it to help Sonic.

Ken Pontac occasionally hits on some funny jokes every now and then but I usually cringe more than I laugh and his skills as an actual writer leave a lot to be desired.

I still say Sega should hire Ian Flynn, the writer from the comic books. Archie recognizes his talent; they're spreading him around to a lot more of their books (Mega Man, etc.) because he's actually a legit good writer. He could probably write something good while still remaining appropriately lighthearted and funny.
 

Maedhros

Member
Generations is the best 3D game but it's freaking short and has a pretty stupid storyline. Classic Sonic is cool but it doesn't even resemble the original MD games (bounce where?). While it's better than Sonic 4, I'm kinda surprised more people don't complain about the physics of this game.
Also, make Tails & Knuckles playable too.

Personally, I don't care if a game will use the same physics from Mega Drive, if I want that, I'll play that. The physics on the game were pretty much good for the platforming, never had a problem with it. But Sonic fans are some of the worst nitpickers. If the gravity variable isn't set to 0.565, the physics is bad and so is the game.

The problem was with the roll physics, which is the only one I can agree. Make him like a ball rolling down a slope again and it'll be perfect. Variable bouncing height? Fuck that shit. And they should make the broken spindash an option, as I quite like it on my speedruns.

And I agree with the sentiment of having these other three playable.
 

Diablos

Member
Kind of silly. I can't imagine how they can make Sonic any better. Face it, Sega: You will never top the Genesis days.
 

drgambit

Banned
  • What is the Lost Hex?
  • Why are the Deadly Six there?
  • How did Eggman get the Magic Conch? Also, it could use a better name.
  • What the hell are Wisps doing there?
  • Did the Deadly Six simply
    die at the ending
    ?

What the hell is all this garbage? Is this what Sonic has become?

Sanic runs Left to Right, sometimes really fast
Sanic collects rings (Collect a lot for a bonus stage if you want)
Every 3rd level Sanic defeats a boss

THE END
 
What the hell is all this garbage? Is this what Sonic has become?

Sanic runs Left to Right, sometimes really fast
Sanic collects rings (Collect a lot for a bonus stage if you want)
Every 3rd level Sanic defeats a boss

THE END

Dude, it's 2014. All videogames have storylines now. Even fuckin' Pac-man has a story and a supporting cast now. Mario's had a few, too.
 

NotLiquid

Member
I think it is important to remember that this is supposed to be a non-public event, so it is entirely likely that this will come and go with us not seeing anything until E3 or later.

The info was meant to be embargoed till today so I doubt we'll be waiting too long.
 
Dude, it's 2014. All videogames have storylines now. Even fuckin' Pac-man has a story and a supporting cast now. Mario's had a few, too.

The pinnacle of story telling in Sonic was for Sonic 3. It wasn't overly complicated or outlandish, it was a simple plot shown through small cutscenes, and as you play the game. I would love to see that as a return for the tone of Sonic storytelling. They can have cutscenes and voice acting, but keep it light, and focus on showing rather than telling, please.
 
The pinnacle of story telling in Sonic was for Sonic 3. It wasn't overly complicated or outlandish, it was a simple plot shown through small cutscenes, and as you play the game. I would love to see that as a return for the tone of Sonic storytelling. They can have cutscenes and voice acting, but keep it light, and focus on showing rather than telling, please.

So would I, but that's not how videogames roll, unfortunately. Somebody's gotta talk. Rosalina's gotta talk to and about Mario. Classic Tails has to talk for Classic Sonic, who is mysteriously mute.

And for what it's worth, as long as you're in the mood for some light adventure comics and don't mind it being about cartoon animals, Archie's Sonic comic can actually be pretty enjoyable, as I suggested in an earlier post. It is possible to tell a "good" story using Sonic characters that talk.

It's one of those things where just because it was done poorly in the past, people think it is outright and absolutely impossible to do in the future; and that's pretty silly, if you ask me.
 

Ban Puncher

Member
sonik.gif
 

NeonZ

Member
I'll never understand what made Sega think that they had to target a very specific and young group of people with Sonic. The Genesis Sonic, even though he was marketed as being edgy, appealed to everyone much like Mario. And his games were very successful then. So, why change that? Nintendo's never changed Mario from being a series of games that's designed for everyone. And as a result they've continued to create a franchise that not only reviews better than any other platformer by a wide margin, but it also sells more than any other platformer. They managed to do that because they never narrowed their target audience like Sega has.

To be fair, Sega has tried to make Sonic appeal to everyone ever since Unleashed. They toned down the anime-type stories, and no character aside from Sonic has been playable in the main games since then. And, yet, that hasn't helped the franchise's sales. It's not strange if they now attempt to swing in the other direction and go with a game with a large playable cast, and a storyline following the style of Sonic Adventure 2 or even Sonic 2006.
 
To be fair, Sega has tried to make Sonic appeal to everyone ever since Unleashed. They toned down the anime-type stories, and no character aside from Sonic has been playable in the main games since then. And, yet, that hasn't helped the franchise's sales. It's not strange if they now attempt to swing in the other direction and go with a game with a large playable cast, and a storyline following the style of Sonic Adventure 2 or even Sonic 2006.

Unleashed onwards is where it felt like they were going for more kid-friendly stuff, though. Unleashed's story was the first steps towards Sonic Colors' straight-up Saturday Morning Cartoon writing, which continues in Generations and Lost World.
 
Having slept on it, I'm uneasy about the announcement, but we'll see if anything happens/gets leaked.

Sonic Team actually cited Sonic Adventure 1 as the inspiration for Sonic 2006, and the structure of the game is nearly identical. You literally can't get much closer to Sonic Adventure 3 than that.

You can tell me that "oh yeah well Sonic Unleashed was actually CALLED Sonic World Adventure in Japan" but Sonic 2006 still predates that game by two years, so it doesn't really matter.

Not to mention Wave Ocean in general...I just don't see the demand for Sonic Adventure 3 or the reason why anyone would want it.

Seriously, if the next game doesn't improve on Lost Worlds parkour system I'll be pretty sad.

To make the game much better, they need to focus on one style of play, 3D platforming. Make movement feel more natural, momentum, acceleration, ect. Cut out the game wide gimmicks (wisps) and stick to level gimmicks.

Indeed, the Parkour system definitely needed better implementation (it got absolutely frustrating in some portions), while we can do without the wisps...thankfully I played the game post controls patch.
Speaking of which, I wonder if they'll fix that all complete missions reward issue for the LoZ DLC.
 

casmith07

Member
How about, Classic Sonic HD.

Take the. Exact. Engines. Of Sonic 1-2-3-&K, and make them HD. Put them on PSN/XLBA/eShop for $29.99, and then take all of my Rings for it.
 

.la1n

Member
How about, Classic Sonic HD.

Take the. Exact. Engines. Of Sonic 1-2-3-&K, and make them HD. Put them on PSN/XLBA/eShop for $29.99, and then take all of my Rings for it.

Sonic 1, 2, and CD have already been given this treatment by Christian Whitehead and he is apparently working on 3-&K as well. CD came over to PSN/XBLA so maybe once they are all completed we'll see them as a compilation release on consoles.
 
So, shit goes down at this thing in an hour right? Any twitter accounts we should be keeping an eye on?

I suspect Sega will have a trailer to release at the end of the presentation. The announcement flier only mentioned an embargo up until the day of the presentation.
 
Do battered spouses get to play great games like Sonic Colours and Sonic Generations? If so then sure.

Yes, now and again the batterer is nice to the partner. That's usually why the battered stay in the relationship. That is why I stay in this relationship, even though I know it's bad for me.
 
Unleashed onwards is where it felt like they were going for more kid-friendly stuff, though. Unleashed's story was the first steps towards Sonic Colors' straight-up Saturday Morning Cartoon writing, which continues in Generations and Lost World.

Part of the problem is that Sega decided one of 06's major failings was the final fantasy plot, which is partally true. But the slightly serious angle had worked just fine in Adventure and Adventure 2

Which is ignoring that the awful plot in 06 was just cherry on top of things. It was a broken mess of a game that should of never been shipped at the state it ended up in. The plot was the least of it's issues really (but yes lets never have creepy human on hedgehog romance again please)

I also think Sega got fed up of people taking the series canon seriously. So they threw a lot of that out of the window.

Also Saturday Morning cartoon writing doesn't have to be bad. If we could have AoStH or SatAM writing that would be neat. What a shame Ben Hurst never really got a chance with the game series before his untimely passing.
 
Honest question for Sonic fans:

Don't you feel like a battered spouse?

I used to.

Sonic 2006 was a very, very dark time. That game made everything look bad, even the Sonic games I legitimately loved. I almost didn't want anything to do with Sonic ever again.

Sega had an FTP security breach and some pre-release assets for Sonic Unleashed leaked, including an internal video promo. The game looked like Sonic Rush in 3D. Sonic Rush was, and still kind of is in a lot of ways, one of the best Sonic games.

I was trepidatious. Sonic 06 was so bad, by rights Sega should've never been given the benefit of the doubt ever again (I still don't give them that, actually). News of the Werehog finally came, and it seemed to almost kind of confirm that yep, this was probably going to be crap.

Around this time, a guy I know named Tristan relaunched his old Sonic/Sega news website, tssznews.com. He asked me if I wanted to be a part of the writing staff, and offered to pay me out of whatever adsense brought in. It was hardly anything at the time, but I bit the bullet and said yes - I'd never done anything like this before, and I figured it would be a good learning experience. I think we were barely operational for a week when the news of the Sonic Unleashed leak hit, it was our first big story.

My job was reviews. Suddenly Sonic Unleashed on the Xbox 360 went from "Eh, I'll skip it" to "I don't have any choice, I'm going play it."

I wasn't quite sure what to make of the game at first. I was kind of frustrated by it; Sonic's daytime levels were incredibly difficult, nerve-wracking experiences. After a daytime Sonic level I'd put down the controller, hands literally shaking.

Werehog stuff was a drag, obviously. Boring, kind of mindless, but not entirely unplayable. Just long and uninteresting. Boss encounters largely weren't great, the story was average Sonic stuff, and the game gated your progress in annoying, occasionally tedious ways. But the more I played Sonic's daytime levels, the more I began to feel inexplicably drawn to them. They were nerve-wracking, but in a good way. They were rollercoaster rides in almost a literal sense; insanely fast and dizzying. But the game was far from being on autopilot; pulling off a "good run" in these levels took patience, focus, and most importantly, skill - I've always likened it to something like a racing game, where you have to worry about your driving line and cornering technique, and basically have to straight up memorize the track a little bit if only so you can set up and plan your moves ahead of time.

Against my initial assessment, I fell in love with Sonic Unleashed. The daytime levels are a white-knuckle thrill ride that no other game franchise has been able to match. Games to follow Sonic Unleashed (Colors and Generations) were of the same mold, though neither games were quite as focused on ridiculous speed - Sonic Generations comes the closest, but still doesn't feel quite as insane as Unleashed did.

Regardless, by the public at large, Colors and Generations were considered to be "alright" games. Good, even. No need to excuse Werehogs or hub worlds or whatever. They are Fun Sonic Games.

So no, I don't especially feel like a battered wife. I guess I kind of used to, but I haven't for many years now.

Though with the direction things could go... we'll see what happens in the future, eh?

(If for whatever reason you need me to expound more on my dumb opinions, I did produce video reviews for Unleashed, Generations and Lost World.)
 

I Wanna Be The Guy

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!
Yes, now and again the batterer is nice to the partner. That's usually why the battered stay in the relationship. That is why I stay in this relationship, even though I know it's bad for me.

I think the thing about the Sonic series is that even in the dark times we always had something good as well. It was never a string of shit with only the occasional good game. For every Sonic Adventure 2 we had a Sonic Advance. For every Sonic 06 we had a Sonic Rush. It's more of a 50-50 thing than just something nice now and again. But I suppose the general analogy is correct. Sort of. Gotta put up with the beatings as well as the hot sex and gifts.
 
I think the thing about the Sonic series is that even in the dark times we always had something good as well. It was never a string of shit with only the occasional good game. For every Sonic Adventure 2 we had a Sonic Advance. For every Sonic 06 we had a Sonic Rush. It's more of a 50-50 thing than just something nice now and again. But I suppose the general analogy is correct. Sort of. Gotta put up with the beatings as well as the hot sex and gifts.

I suppose for me I didn't truly enjoy a Sonic game since Knuckles with the exception of maybe Advance until Unleashed came out, and even then there was the whole werehog thing. My patience was rewarded with Colors but that's a lot of unpleasant games to sit through.
 

btkadams

Member
Sonic 1, 2, and CD have already been given this treatment by Christian Whitehead and he is apparently working on 3-&K as well. CD came over to PSN/XBLA so maybe once they are all completed we'll see them as a compilation release on consoles.

i would fucking LOVE THAT. they need to release those ios ports on other systems. sonic 1-3&K&CD on my vita would be godly.
 
While I liked Generations, I think it ultimately exposed the big problem Sega is having with Sonic games.

You blow through the game too fast and it's hard to make content, so either you make a shitload of filler content or make the game short. Generations compromised by making a short game with filler content.

I don't know that they'll ever solve this issue to my complete satisfaction.
 

Mesoian

Member
Sonic 1, 2, and CD have already been given this treatment by Christian Whitehead and he is apparently working on 3-&K as well. CD came over to PSN/XBLA so maybe once they are all completed we'll see them as a compilation release on consoles.

These games should replace what Sega has on Steam. The CD one is up there, but the fact that the sonic 2 remaster isn't is shameful.
 
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