Or maybe people pirated a game because the developers were too lazy to release a demo, realized they liked the game, and bought it. A wrong doesn't make a right but a sale is a sale when there might have been no sale.
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30c3: Console Hacking 2013 Wii U
- Thread starter la_briola
- Start date
Or maybe people pirated a game because the developers were too lazy to release a demo, realized they liked the game, and bought it. A wrong doesn't make a right but a sale is a sale when there might have been no sale.
OminoMichelin
Member
Funny you mention demos, since statistics show people are LESS inclined to buy games when there's a demo available. But that might just be recent AAA titles sucking ass.
I don't know what you mean, but Espresso is the only 750 to use MERSI. All other 750s, including Gekko and Broadway, used MEI.
Yeah demos for aaa titles i've tried have just been awful. Mostly it's because they pick such awful parts of the game instead of like "look at this cool thing!"
or they'll be super lazy and just take out a level wholesale.
Best demos are once that have like, an hour timelimit on them.
Has there really been any usable homebrew SDKs for recent consoles except the Wii? I haven't really followed the scene. XBMC on the orig Xbox was the best piece of homebrew I've tried, but it used the pirated SDK. Ps2 homebrew was pretty capable due to gfx hw manuals being released by Sony in the Linux kit. PSP was also quite good.
But with the 360 and the ps3, i have the feeling that the systems got a bit too big to handle and that made them uninteresting.
Ps4 and xbone are just PC's, I don't see any reason to hack them except for piracy.
But with the 360 and the ps3, i have the feeling that the systems got a bit too big to handle and that made them uninteresting.
Ps4 and xbone are just PC's, I don't see any reason to hack them except for piracy.
As a developer myself, I agree with your general outlook. Some people would like to pretend piracy has no effect on the industry, and you'll never convince them otherwise because it's the only thing that helps them justify stealing games to themselves.
phosphor112
Banned
What about the 74xx? Idk much about the 750's or newer chips to be honest.
Until your pc can play xbox 360 games while still doing pc things, no one is going to be truly happy. Majority of people get consoles for 1. exclusives 2. and "i want to game but it costs $2000 for a gaming computer and this thing plays games for $400, what a deal"
I'm not even kidding about the second part. Work in retail, you'll see it. (when you explain to them how easy and cheap building a computer is, they just look at you funny and go "oh no that's too hard for me")
That homebrew version of Quake that used the Wiimote to aim wasn't on the PC. I liked it.
Yes, 74xx cores use the same protocol (some of them, at least), as do all 970s. It's a more modern protocol designed with SMP in mind, whereas MEI was strictly for single core systems.
Wowfunhappy
Member
Aww, I missed this. Is the video uploaded anywhere?
Will be up in a couple of hours/days.
is that confirmed? just bought one recently
OminoMichelin
Member
No. Don't worry about it.
Here's a recording of the stream. Talk starts at 3:20. Might want to right-click and save-as. It's ~220MB.
Manp
Member
yes it's actually smaller than a 360
JordanN
Banned
The Wii was an overclocked Gamecube even though specs never came out. Wii U is the same thing in that it's meant to be slightly better than last gen, powerwise.
So it's not on par but don't be surprised when 90% of the games don't look much different and right now, that seems to be the case.
scytherage
Member
Man, hackers have no mercy at all. Why open up to piracy the console that is struggling to sell software?
Could also do the opposite, anyone can get a cheap wiiu dev kit with paying a single thing to Nintendo untill they want to publish.
Wowfunhappy
Member
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
All 74xx's I know use MESI. Dunno about the 970.
Also, I was not so sure about the 750's, but I double-checked and you're right - the entire 750 family is MEI. Espresso is absolutely unique in this regard.
phosphor112
Banned
Looking back as far as i can, 74xx supports MERSI.
Here is a post from 02 on a forum talking about it.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/2114/multiprocessors
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
Well, I'm only familiar with Moto's variants (7450 series).
That said, apparently the R state in MERSI could be 'transparent' to the cache logic on a core (according to the leaked Espresso manual page), so I may have encountered a MERSI G4 I may not have been aware of (unlikely, since Moto normally have excellent documentation, but I still acknowledge the possibility).
blu
Wants the largest console games publisher to avoid Nintendo's platforms.
The talk, while highly interesting to a very narrow audience, presented no new information about the hw to the world. Marcan thinks the wii sandboxing is so robust as to allow nintendo to officially open up the platform for homebrew while keeping their DRM. Realistically, that ain't happening. EOS
That was the real interesting part for me. If it reads as an RV770 then the WiiU could be more capable than many people think. On the other hand it could be a butchered 770CE which had a touch over 600 shaders. Also bear in mind that the clock speed for the WiiU chip is far lower than 4850/4870 etc.
NeOak
Member
No. The die pic was taken a long time ago. ~160.
If you followed the die pic thread then you would know that no one really had a firm take on whether the chip was 160, 192 or 320 SPU's. If the hackers have access to WiiU documentation or have the ability to read the chip itself and see it identified as a RV770 part then I bet on it being a chopped up RV770CE. Likely cut down to 320 SPU's, put on a 40nm fab and given a core clock drop to keep the system cool.
presenting "nobody cares, we release nothing" is kind of a downer ;(
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Basically, that's it for now. People, yall better hope that Sakurai wouldn't drop ball this time.
test_account
XP-39C²
I see. I probably remember wrong then. I thought maybe that they didnt release anything before what Geohot did.
Does this work for anyone else? For me, it just stops at ~2 minutes in.
Interesting that Nintendo simply put the whole Wii GPU in there (GX). I wonder if it's usable in Wii U mode?
A proper homebrew framework would probably require writing drivers for the GPU, which would be a gigantic pain the the ass since we're talking about DirectX 10.1 generation hardware.
Just look at how much pain goes into developing proper open source GPU drivers for Linux, and they have far more people working on that.
The Wii and GC GPU was easy to write a SDK for because it didn't actually need a complex driver and the API was basically a bunch of memory addresses you wrote to. I doubt they used the same approach for the Wii U GPU, which requires quite a bit more software to steer the thing around.
A proper homebrew framework would probably require writing drivers for the GPU, which would be a gigantic pain the the ass since we're talking about DirectX 10.1 generation hardware.
Just look at how much pain goes into developing proper open source GPU drivers for Linux, and they have far more people working on that.
The Wii and GC GPU was easy to write a SDK for because it didn't actually need a complex driver and the API was basically a bunch of memory addresses you wrote to. I doubt they used the same approach for the Wii U GPU, which requires quite a bit more software to steer the thing around.
Wowfunhappy
Member
I had to run it through ffmpeg first. Ffmpeg noticed some errors in the video stream, but was able to successfully copy the video and audio into a new container which played fine, albeit with the audio and video not completely in sync (which doesn't matter much because it's a slide show).
Worked for me using VLC
The talk started at page 2.
But I assume facts are less important than getting in a WiiU zinger.
test_account
XP-39C²
Thanks for the info. I might try FFmpeg if someone doesnt Youtube it.
I tried VLC too, just downloaded the latest version, but the video wont play properly here :\ I get some stuttering in the audio, and the video (and audio) just stops after ~2 minutes.
mohsinkhan
Member
Wowfunhappy
Member
Since people are having issues, here is the video I got after running the recording through ffmpeg. Played fine for me on Quicktime X on my Mac. As I said earlier, the audio and video aren't fully in sync, but it's never an issue.
(ffmpeg is an awesome program btw. Took a bit of time to learn but I almost never have trouble getting videos to play anymore.)
(ffmpeg is an awesome program btw. Took a bit of time to learn but I almost never have trouble getting videos to play anymore.)
test_account
XP-39C²
Great, thanks!
The sound looks to be in sync on my PC by the way. If there is any delay, its like 0.1 second or so, hardly noticeable.EDIT: I see there is some sync problems now, but it works fine indeed
mohsinkhan
Member
Youtube link http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NwKeVF-x3Og:
Thanks, updated the OP.
Actually, I'm not that extreme, but developing on console is an extra hassle, you have to deal with lot-check, licensing, buy extra development equipment (that is more than often VERY expensive for lone indies) and optimize to fit onto a limited console hardware.
While PC has piracy, it's also much easier to get your game out there.
Why would I go through all the trouble to get my game on Wii U if the ecosystem is just the same as on PC? The promise of console release is that it offers a more controlled ecosystem that gives you all your chances to succeed and make a living. Remove that little extra and there's not much reason to bother anymore.
Most devs are used and have fully accepted the upsides and downsides of making PC games, and it's perfectly fine. But it's clearly not the same as adding piracy to the downsides of making console games.