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[Monocle]

It going back to Halo2 gameplay isnt any better. There has to be some sort of evolution which most fans here are completely unwilling to accept. They started a whole new thread because of a fucking sprint. Yay or nay. Fucking embarrassing.

I think halo absolutely need to remain 'familiar' in its evolution but theres also a difference between being familiar and being stagnant.

I certainly don't think the mechanics should regress after Halo 5 delivered what might be the first unqualified improvement on Halo's base gameplay since Halo 3. I just think it's crazy to demand that 343 throw the baby out with the bathwater by implementing radical change for the sake of change.

Halo 5's additions are exactly the kind of evolution I'd embrace in future games. All of the basic stuff is totally intact (even crouch jumping, which 343 thankfully chose not to remove despite the introduction of clambering). It's just enhanced by a bunch of common-sense improvements and nice little tweaks that make traversal and gunplay more intuitive.

 

[Cranster]

343 wants the narrative to be bad it seems

They already hired someone, you can't blame 343i for not hiring Eric Nyland in this situation as he didn't apply on time.

 

[NeOak]

They already hired someone, you can't blame 343i for not hiring Eric Nyland in this situation as he didn't apply on time.

They could have called him when it was open.

Whoever it was did a shitty job.

 

[Monocle]

They already hired someone, you can't blame 343i for not hiring Eric Nyland in this situation as he didn't apply on time.

He's the first person they should have thought of to fill the position.

Joseph Staten second.

 

[VeeP]

If they ever were to do an ODST-style expansion, it should follow the kilo-5 team during the build up to Halo5.

That way it could incorporate the interesting story beats HTT touched on, and fill in the critical missing info H5 Glossed over.



Lol the lore is already in the trash...

But let's be clear. They don't have to "go back to the Covenant" . But there are factions within each of the former Covenant races that are still hostile towards humanity. The lore supports there being Hostile, Friendly and Indifferent members of each of these races- a fact that could and SHOULD be used to give us more interesting fights than the Prometheans will ever allow.

It's also worth mentioning that gunfights being fun is more important than holding on to an enemy faction that has been almost universally disliked since it was brought into the franchise- especially when you'd be doing so exclusively for narrative reasons- especially when people don't even like the narrative.

Lol, so lets just fuck the lore even more than? Holy shit..

And again, we've seen all the Covenant races. With Prometheans they can still think of new designs, and make them fun.

 

[Cranster]

They could have called him when it was open.

Whoever it was did a shitty job.

He was semi-retired. As far as they knew he wasn't probably interested and they probably have to follow certain policy's when it comes to filling those types of positions IE, 343 employees have first dibs, then Microsoft employees, ect).

 

[VincentMatts]

I certainly don't think the mechanics should regress after Halo 5 delivered what might be the first unqualified improvement on Halo's base gameplay since Halo 3. I just think it's crazy to demand that 343 throw the baby out with the bathwater by implementing radical change for the sake of change.

Halo 5's additions are exactly the kind of evolution I'd embrace in future games. All of the basic stuff is totally intact (even crouch jumping, which 343 thankfully chose not to remove despite the introduction of clambering). It's just enhanced by a bunch of common-sense improvements and nice little tweaks that make traversal and gunplay more intuitive.

i agree

 

[Zeta Oni]

They already hired someone, you can't blame 343i for not hiring Eric Nyland in this situation as he didn't apply on time.

And honestly, your right.

But the guy understands Halo. From the novels he did, to stuff like the short story in Evolutions (The Impossible Life and the Possible Death of Preston J. Cole) , everything Eric Nylund touched in the Halo universe is great.

To have that same quality in the games again?

Could you sit there as a Halo fan and tell me that seeing a Blue team focused Halo game written by Eric Nylund wouldn't be the stuff of your dreams?

 

[Fata1moose]

They could have called him when it was open.

Whoever it was did a shitty job.

This is completely unreasonable.

 

[Monocle]

Lol, so lets just fuck the lore even more than? Holy shit..

And again, we've seen all the Covenant races. With Prometheans they can still think of new designs, and make them fun.

I wouldn't fault 343 for writing the Prometheans out and reintroducing the Flood or something. ("Whoops, Cortana hacked them all and scavenged their bodies for spare parts!")

Promethean enemy types were greatly improved in Halo 5 compared to 4, but they still don't hold a candle to the Covenant. They're just not especially fun to fight.

 

[Cranster]

And honestly, your right.

But the guy understands Halo. From the novels he did, to stuff like the short story in Evolutions, everything Eric Nylund touched in the Halo universe is great.

To have that same quality in the games again?

Could you sit there as a Halo fan and tell me that seeing a Blue team focused Halo game written by Eric Nylund wouldn't be the stuff of your dreams?

I'm not against Eric Nyland having being narrative director or being a part of the narrative team. I'm just pointing out that trashing 343 Industries because he was late to the punch is pretty stupid and won't win you any points with 343.

But hey, let's fire the guy they just hired because the fans like to talk shit on the internet?!

 

[Trup1aya]

It going back to Halo2 gameplay isnt any better. There has to be some sort of evolution which most fans here are completely unwilling to accept. They started a whole new thread because of a fucking sprint. Yay or nay. Fucking embarrassing.

I think halo absolutely need to remain 'familiar' in its evolution but theres also a difference between being familiar and being stagnant.

I just never quite understand what people mean when they make this argument.

Halo 2 was a fairly 'evolutionary' take compared H:CE. It took the CE formula and streamlined it (much to the dismay of hardcore CE fans), and the franchise saw massive growth.

Halo 3 was essentially H2 with refinements. The core gameplay didn't change much at all. Again the franchise saw massive growth. Over 12 million copies sold. Rational thinking would have suggested that they should just refine this formula, and improve upon it until the market demanded otherwise. There was really nothing to suggest that this style of play was losing favor in the market. It was gaining favor.

Halo Reach represented the first 'evolutionary' shift to the core gameplay formula since H2. The game sold less than H3, had lower retention, and had trouble standing up to other FPS titles that were gaining popularity.

Halo 4 represented yet another 'evolutionary' shift to the core gameplay. The game sold similarly to Reach, but retention dropped off a cliff after a few weeks.

Halo 5 represents a sort of hybrid between the Halo Reach, Halo 4, and the Halo 2/3 formulas. And it's the worst selling Halo to date. With some nebulous retention comments thrown out by the dev. Having one foot in one foot out doesn't seem to help either.

I dunno, I keep feeling that anytime someone says halo needs to 'evolve' they mean that something has to change just for the sake of changing. Even if it means adding mechanics that cause engagements to dramatically differ from the ones that made this franchise popular in the first place. that's exactly the kind of thinking that got us to where we are today.

Understanding and embracing the formula that made Halo what it is != stagnation. It's neccisary step in recapturing the franchises magic. Only after that should much effort go into 'evolving' things. only then can you really understand what changes are NECCISARY.

 

[samurai1226]

"We definitely marketed in a way that we hoped was going to bring surprise"
Telling us the campaign will be twice as long as the H4 campaign, ending up with the shortest campaign of the Halo series was indeed a surprise

 

[NeOak]

This is completely unreasonable.

Is it?

I don't think whoever it was did anything with bad intentions, but the end result is what you see. Sadly, it came out flawed.

Or are you going to defend the disjointed H5 narrative?

When you NEED external devices to explain what is happening, you break the flow of the game.

Halo 5 requires a lot of external media to understand what is happening. That is bad.

 

[Izayoi]

This is completely unreasonable.

Strongly disagree. Look at how much of a disaster the story and EU has become since 343 took the reins.

Now tell me with a straight face that Nylund would've done a worse job that this disjointed, cheesy, fanfic-eqsue abomination that we have now.

Frankly, it's embarrassing.

 

[Cranster]

"We definitely marketed in a way that we hoped was going to bring surprise"
Telling us the campaign will be twice as long as the H4 campaign, ending up with the shortest campaign of the Halo series was indeed a surprise

Let's be honest, Halo 3 isn't any longer than Halo 5.

 

[Zeta Oni]

I'm not against Eric Nyland having being narrative director or being a part of the narrative team. I'm just pointing out that trashing 343 Industries because he was late to the punch is pretty stupid and won't win you any points with 343.

But hey, let's fire the guy they just hired because the fans like to talk shit on the internet?!

Woah, I'm not trashing 343i about this, I merely expressed disappointment when I found out he was interested and couldn't get the position.

I understand how jobs work, ya know.

 

[Fata1moose]

Strongly disagree. Look at how much of a disaster the story and EU has become since 343 took the reins.

Now tell me with a straight face that Nylund would've done a worse job that this disjointed, cheesy, fanfic-eqsue abomination that we have now.

Frankly, it's embarrassing.

No it's unreasonable to blame them for failing to hire someone that DIDNT APPLY/show interest on time.

 

[NeOak]

No it's unreasonable to blame them for failing to hire someone that DIDNT APPLY/show interest on time.

Did they even reach out to him?

If you want someone for the job, you ask them. A simple email would suffice.

It sounds like they didn't reach out to him. Have they even approached Joe Staten or Marty O'Donnell?

 

[RoyalLaFlame]

I know 343i wants to add their own flavour to the Halo formula but it seems that instead of improving of what Bungie left them they twisted it so much that it became something different and not in a good way. What I hate the most is how the story is heavily complemented by the books. And it seems they want to cut down more info from the games to put them in external material? Hell no.


I haven't played Halo 5 (I don't own an Xbox) but it seems they brought a lot of good things to the multiplayer portion. People seem to love sprint, the movement and the feel of the game.


If 343i ever returns Halo to its greatness I'll sell my fucking PS4 and buy a damn Scorpio just to play Halo. I don't mind having an Xbox that's basically an Halo machine. I loved Halo and I'm pretty sure I can love it again.

 

[Cranster]

Did they even reach out to him?

If you want someone for the job, you ask them. A simple email would suffice.

That's not how job applications work though. And again, he was semi retired.

Woah, I'm not trashing 343i about this, I merely expressed disappointment when I found out he was interested and couldn't get the position.

I understand how jobs work, ya know.

Sorry, I wasn't directing that at you specifically. It was a more generic statement to the overall topic at the moment. I apologize for that.

 

[NeOak]

That's not how job applications work though. And again, he was semi retired.

This is executive level stuff. Things are different because the candidate list is short.

Until we get a confirmation that they indeed reach out to him for it, they didn't want him.

 

[rokkerkory]

We want iterative gameplay mechanics not crazy changes (like jet pack)... running was OK.

Dual wielding was GREAT, stuff like that bring more of that.

 

[Cranster]

This is executive level stuff. Things are different because the candidate list is short.

Until we get a confirmation that they indeed reach out to him for it, they didn't want him.

Or they simply assumed he was not interested which is more plausible.

We want iterative gameplay mechanics not crazy changes (like jet pack)... running was OK.

Dual wielding was GREAT, stuff like that bring more of that.

It was great in theory but in gameplay it was terrible. Weapons that were useful in Halo 1 were no longer worth using in Halo 2 because to balance it they literally had to weaken the weapons so they were not overpowered while dual wielding.

 

[NeOak]

Or they simply assumed he was not interested which is more plausible.

Then they didn't want him if they didn't bother to check up on him.

 

[CalamityPixel]

Just increase the base movement to something inbetween Sprint and the normal speed.

problem solves badabing badaboom

 

[MarveI]

Eric Nylund on his reddit AMA said that he asked 343 about their new narrative director position (since they got rid of Brian Reed) and he was told they had already found someone.

edit -- Meant to say Eric Nylund, not Joe Staten

FUCK

Come on, you mean we could have had the guy who gave us The Fall of Reach and First Strike in charge of the whole narrative?

I shoulda just stayed out of this thread, cause that's the most disappointing news I've heard in a while.

First time I heard about this and I am legit upset. How can you turn down Nylund ?

 

[VeeP]

I wouldn't fault 343 for writing the Prometheans out and reintroducing the Flood or something. ("Whoops, Cortana hacked them all and scavenged their bodies for spare parts!")

Promethean enemy types were greatly improved in Halo 5 compared to 4, but they still don't hold a candle to the Covenant. They're just not especially fun to fight.

Yea. I don't find them fun to fight either. My point is people saying throw them away. I say redesign them, make them more fun to fight. Look at why the covenant works, change what you have to, etc etc.

And maybe I'm the only one, but I hated fighting the flood :/. Really dislike those guys. As far as baddies go Covenant > Promethians > Flood.

But if possible, 343i should try to make promethians AND the flood more fun to fight. More enemy variety is great, and it'll make the Firefight mode better.

We want iterative gameplay mechanics not crazy changes (like jet pack)... running was OK.

Dual wielding was GREAT, stuff like that bring more of that.

Dual Wielding was terrible for multiplayer. I wouldn't mind if it came back in campaign tho.

And for iterative gameplay mechanics we got Thrust .


Edit:

Just gonna address this. 343 took some great steps with Halo 5. Gameplay overall was amazing. However, going forward:


* The narrative needs work. Plain and simple. Blue Team and Chief should be a focus. I'm not a fan of this AI plot but whatever, I'll give it a chance.

* Campaign levels need to be better, plain and simple. I liked the verticality, but more open spaces and more options are needed.

* Enemies need work. Covenant AI is poor, Promethians aren't fun. Rework them, rework promethian weapons.

 

[jelly]

Did 343 want to sell more books and other media at the expense of a coherent story in the game or was it just bad ?

I'm thinking the latter because films do it well enough with side stories that compliment the film with more back story on characters and threads without making them essential.

Is Kevin Grace the lead Halo writer now?

 

[jelly]

This is executive level stuff. Things are different because the candidate list is short.

Until we get a confirmation that they indeed reach out to him for it, they didn't want him.

Yeah, it would be a little different than just looking at standard applications. A bit of headhunting for a premier franchise, when was it last great, that Eric guy, see what he thinks. Even asking for a recommendation would be fine. Got to reach out even if the answer is likely no.

I'm sure Nathan Fillion didn't apply for a voice role after ODST out of the blue. 343 went for him and got the right answer, could have been the opposite but you never know, don't ask don't get.

 

[Izayoi]

Did 343 want to sell more books and other media at the expense of a coherent story in the game or was it just bad ?

I'm thinking the latter because films do it well enough with side stories that compliment the film with more back story on characters and threads without making them essential.

Is Kevin Grace the lead Halo writer now?

A little of column A, a LOT of column B.

 

[Head.spawn]

Whoever was in charge of the art direction in the Halo 2 remaster needs to be put in permanent charge of Halo's art direction going forward.

Yeah, everything about the remaster was quite nice IMO. Especially loved the look/tone of the CG stuff.

 

[Trup1aya]

That's not how job applications work though. And again, he was semi retired.

Sorry, I wasn't directing that at you specifically. It was a more generic statement to the overall topic at the moment. I apologize for that.

This isn't how job applications work. But team building works like this often.

You usually can't skirt the entire HR process. But if you want a specific person for a job, you court them, and ask them to apply, then you give them the inside track.

Happens all time.

I have no idea what the culture is like over there, but I've seen things go down like this at every company I've worked for.

 

[HBP]

I thought it was fine but I also got it for $6.

 

[Wedzi]

Eric Nylund on his reddit AMA said that he asked 343 about their new narrative director position (since they got rid of Brian Reed) and he was told they had already found someone.

edit -- Meant to say Eric Nylund, not Joe Staten

 

[tayls129]

I'll never understand the intense love for Chief, he's one of the most boring protagonists in gaming.

I don't get it either. It might have been fine in 2001. But in 2017?

 

[TheOctodad]

I used to have an Xbox and Xbox 360 solely because of Halo. I loved it and was pretty damn good at the MP.

Reach was ok, but after that I was just done. I really feel like there's room in the world of FPS with increasing complexity to go back to the more simple MP of Halo 1/2/3. No loadouts, weapons on map, all the same movements, etc. Give me simply game types (team death match, CTF, Assault). I'd be all over this.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

who is the new narrative director? what are their past projects?

 

[XNarte]

I used to have an Xbox and Xbox 360 solely because of Halo. I loved it and was pretty damn good at the MP.

Reach was ok, but after that I was just done. I really feel like there's room in the world of FPS with increasing complexity to go back to the more simple MP of Halo 1/2/3. No loadouts, weapons on map, all the same movements, etc. Give me simply game types (team death match, CTF, Assault). I'd be all over this.

To be honest, this is one thing Halo 5 gets right though. Even though there is sprint and clamber, everyone has it, and it still is about getting the power weapons on maps and staying ahead. Campaign is where they have dropped the ball. If H6 is a refinement of H5 multiplayer with good maps and all modes day 1, all they have left to do is have a good campaign.

 

[jelly]

who is the new narrative director? what are their past projects?

I think it's him but correct me if I'm wrong.

Managing Editor

https://www.halopedia.org/Kevin_Grace

Most recently involved with the Halo Wars 2 story.

Frankie is Franchise Development Director but not sure how much of a say he gets in writing but seems like a top job only bettered by Studio head, Bonnie Ross and perhaps Kiki Wolfkill as Executive producer.

 

[Fata1moose]

Reach was ok, but after that I was just done. I really feel like there's room in the world of FPS with increasing complexity to go back to the more simple MP of Halo 1/2/3. No loadouts, weapons on map, all the same movements, etc. Give me simply game types (team death match, CTF, Assault). I'd be all over this.

Halo 5 has all of the things you listed.

 

[Iced Arcade]

Good. Halo 5 was a great game but honestly didn't give a **** locke.


Come to think of it... they need to spin off an arbitor, maybe a 3rd person game.

 

[Gnome Scat]

I believe you are thinking of Eric Nylund.

 

[Zeta Oni]

Kevin Grace did "The Return" in Halo Evolutions btw, which was one of my favorites.

Motion comic for those interested in seeing it.

 

[Head.spawn]

I believe you are thinking of Eric Nylund.

Holy shit. Eric Nylund was actively trying to get that position?

Bonnie, pls. Sometimes you have to make waves; that would've been a really good start.

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

I just think it's crazy to demand that 343 throw the baby out with the bathwater by implementing radical change for the sake of change.

It's certainly not just "for the sake of change" lol. People have argued these things to death and have provided many reasons why they want the changes they do.

It was great in theory but in gameplay it was terrible. Weapons that were useful in Halo 1 were no longer worth using in Halo 2 because to balance it they literally had to weaken the weapons so they were not overpowered while dual wielding.

Bungie didn't "have to" design dual weapons that way, they just chose to. Alternatively, dual weapons could have just been way more inaccurate when dual wielded instead of the odd choice of making each individual weapon weaker. This would have allowed the weapons to remain strong without dual wielding, and balanced when they are. Also limiting the ammo supply when dual wielding could have worked with this.

 

[Fata1moose]

Duel weilding sucked and is hardly missed. You don't see many people in the Halo community clamoring for its return.

 

[jelly]

Never cared for dual wielding in Halo games. It was weak in Halo 2, weapons were just awful in Halo 3, that pistol, puke. It would be better if it was strictly a unique weapon, one alien weapon that isn't a human variant but actually unique and human pistols or something like that.

How do people feel about the weapons going forward in the series, the human base is no doubt helpful for balancing but the sandbox is bit boring when there isn't more exotics.

 

[Okami Haundo]

So I just found out about this whole Cortana "split" theory and I'm hoping some fellow Gaffers can lend a hand. Someone near the beginning of this thread mentioned that it came up in a book or comic, but I can't seem to find which one. Online searches for me just show fan theories. Halp?

 

[AlStrong]

So I just found out about this whole Cortana "split" theory and I'm hoping some fellow Gaffers can lend a hand. Someone near the beginning of this thread mentioned that it came up in a book or comic, but I can't seem to find which one. Online searches for me just show fan theories. Halp?

https://www.halopedia.org/Halo:_Tales_from_Slipspace#Dominion_Splinter