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35 Minutes of The Witcher 3: Wild Hunt

After watching that 35 min trailer, I can say that it looks like a open-world version of Mass Effect. Disappointing to say the least, at least in regards to quests. CP stated that they wanted to do away with "fetch" quests - or make them subtle if any. But this video clearly demonstrated just that even going so far to demonstrate "quick travel" - far far from subtle. Ugh.. I knew it. No way they could live up to that promise. Checklist design.. here we go!

Sad to say this killed my hype more than anything. I was hoping the Witcher would take a bolder step direction of the RPG formula but here we are, another AAA-tier trope of emphasizing scope'n scale than the interactive nature of the game.
 

Sentenza

Member
CDPR picked a bunch of fan questions to answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhgHj2Eu34s
Still watching this but they really didn't answer to the 11th question.
The question was "Are there random encounters in the game?" and they replied "Anything can happen when you are on the road. For example...".
Yeah, of course, but what people wanted to know is probably more: "will all these encounters be scripted and pre-determined or there will be some degree of randomness?"
 

misho8723

Banned
After watching that 35 min trailer, I can say that it looks like a open-world version of Mass Effect. Disappointing to say the least, at least in regards to quests. CP stated that they wanted to do away with "fetch" quests - or make them subtle if any. But this video clearly demonstrated just that even going so far to demonstrate "quick travel" - far far from subtle. Ugh.. I knew it. No way they could live up to that promise. Checklist design.. here we go!

Sad to say this killed my hype more than anything. I was hoping the Witcher would take a bolder step direction of the RPG formula but here we are, another AAA-tier trope of emphasizing scope'n scale than the interactive nature of the game.

Because of one mission, where the goal is to find a clue where Ciri is, you know that the rest of quests are going to be the same ?.. In EVERY one of RPG you have quests where you must do something for someone to get what you need-want... doesn't this happen all the time even in real world?.. I personally don't care if there isn't going to be many of this types of quests and if they are going to be in this form, where I wanted to see what's going to happen next, then not a problem for me.. show me a story based RPG, where you don't have any fetch quest?
 
Because of one mission, where the goal is to find a clue where Ciri is, you know that the rest of quests are going to be the same ?.. In EVERY one of RPG you have quests where you must do something for someone to get what you need-want... doesn't this happen all the time even in real world?.. I personally don't care if there isn't going to be many of this types of quests and if they are going to be in this form, where I wanted to see what's going to happen next, then not a problem for me.. show me a story based RPG, where you don't have any fetch quest?

You haven't been reading my comment in context. This is a marketing issue NOT a design one. I've already pointed out that it's "too good to be true" based on the premises of the CP's statements. You're trying to strawman a subject that has nothing to do with my argument. I'm not complaining that this is how quests are made, I'm disappointed for the fact they say one thing and the best case scenario they've set up to is to contradict their statements entirely. As if we should sweep it under the rug.

Again, why would they do this? They adamantly stated they wanted to do away traditional fetch quests, and here we are out of tons and tons of quests to showcase that feature, they do this.
 

Leb

Member
Again, why would they do this? They adamantly stated they wanted to do away traditional fetch quests, and here we are out of tons and tons of quests to showcase that feature, they do this.

Well, it might help to recognize that they actually said:

When we do have [fetch quests], which is rarely, we compensate for it with the narrative,” writer Jakub Szamalek explains. “It’ll definitely be an interesting story in itself – you’ll be intrigued by the NPC’s motives, and where this is all leading. Even when you have a simple structure it’s something we’re compensating for in the story.”

As for their choice of a 35 minute slice, well, it's near the beginning of the game but after the tutorial and concerns the central theme of the game, the search for Ciri; that the quest structure in this case is straightforward may simply mean that this early on the critical path, they wish to heavily emphasize the narrative.
 
Still watching this but they really didn't answer to the 11th question.
The question was "Are there random encounters in the game?" and they replied "Anything can happen when you are on the road. For example...".
Yeah, of course, but what people wanted to know is probably more: "will all these encounters be scripted and pre-determined or there will be some degree of randomness?"

Based on what he said, I have a feeling that those will be scripted, and they are in fact really those point of interests they mentioned earlier. Which is kind of disappointing really. I don't want to go through No Man's Land and nothing happens. I hope they at least respawn monster.
 

PFD

Member
You're playing the wrong game if you go in with the expectations of a sandbox with random encounters
 

jiiikoo

Banned
Watched it a few days ago and I am hyped. Looks really interesting. I haven't played the other two though, which kinda scares me.
 

Sentenza

Member
Based on what he said, I have a feeling that those will be scripted, and they are in fact really those point of interests they mentioned earlier. Which is kind of disappointing really. I don't want to go through No Man's Land and nothing happens. I hope they at least respawn monster.
Actually, my opinion is that it should ideally be a mix of both, with scripted content being the biggest chunk of the content and just a sparse number of potentially random encounters and *limited* respawn (i.e. major monsters don't come back, but minor beasts/monsters like drowners and wolves could respawn from time to time).

No auto-scaling was definitely the best news out of that.
Well, I wouldn't even call it news, since it's probably the first thing they stated upfront when the game was originally announced.

I just hope it doesn't hinder exploration too much. If they do it MMO-style with specific levels for each zone then fuck that, but I guess they're probably smarter than that.
Ideally, with a well-tuned progression system that makes you consistently stronger over time with marginal increases instead of making your growth exponential, it shouldn't be a big problem.
This is what I wrote almost a year ago about another RPG and it applies here as well:

The leveling systems I like the most are the ones where you get a clear sense of getting stronger over time through a a series of marginal improvements, but *without* experiencing an exponential growth.

I love stuff like "You start with 50 HP and you end with 90 and a lot more good to parry or avoid damage" and I despise stuff like "You start with 30 HP and you end with 9999".
I also like when dangerous enemies keep being dangerous even when you level up and become more confident facing them.
I don't find particularly enjoyable going through the whole "I'm going to one-shot stuff that was killing me in one blow barely a couple of levels ago". 
 

Daverid

Member
As for their choice of a 35 minute slice, well, it's near the beginning of the game but after the tutorial and concerns the central theme of the game, the search for Ciri; that the quest structure in this case is straightforward may simply mean that this early on the critical path, they wish to heavily emphasize the narrative.

After finishing the video, and reflecting on what actually happened, it occurred to me that it sorta was just a constant trail of Favors and "Fetch" quests. The key word there being AFTER. While I was watching everything was so engaging that I wasn't rolling my eyes when Johnny asks you to fetch his Bottle, or when the the Ealdorman asks you to kill the "Evil in the forest"... Everything from the writing to the presentation was just to excellent and so damn interesting that I was never drawn out from the questline by the fact that many of it was simple fetch/kill quests.

Who knows how the rest of the game is going to play out, and whether or not a majority of the quests will be like that. However really at the end of the day you simply can't make an RPG without some form of collecting. It's a natural part of life and it's something that they can't really escape, but if every 'fetch' quest in the game is covered up with a narrative that interesting, I don't see a problem at all.
 
Actually, my opinion is that it should ideally be a mix of both, with scripted content being the biggest chunk of the content and just a sparse number of potentially random encounters and *limited* respawn (i.e. major monsters don't come back, but minor beasts/monsters like drowners and wolves could respawn from time to time).

I should have made myself a bit clearer, what I meant was: based on how he said it, meaning avoiding the actual question, I feel like there won't be random encounters. Now I love the fact that they are gonna put tons of handcrafted side-quests and points of interests and that is fantastic, but a little more randomness is gonna add a nice extra touch to the great world of the witcher. It is not necessarily anything big, just a little pack of wolves here ambushing you when you were collecting herbs, or a crowd of drowners there emerging from the water and surprise you when you are letting Roach quench his thirst by the lake. (not that we can actually do it in the game, I am just painting a picture here). And of course no big monster respawning as that would just kill the immersion and the sense of accomplishment. But it is similar to what you said.

Basically my point is: a little randomness is gonna perfect the already awesome part of the world that is handmade by CDPR.

You're playing the wrong game if you go in with the expectations of a sandbox with random encounters

I think you may have misunderstood my point so I invite you to read this, but if you still don't agree then in my opinion I am not the one who is playing the wrong game here.
 

-Deimos

Member
To be honest I'm hoping that they are scripted. I'm tired of "dynamic random events" because they usually suck and are nothing more than a few low level enemies to slaughter.
 

Philippo

Member
Yeah, i do too prefer scripted but well-written events, and for an open world i want something like RDR (just randomly bumping in some stranger in the wild).
 
To be honest I'm hoping that they are scripted. I'm tired of "dynamic random events" because they usually suck and are nothing more than a few low level enemies to slaughter.
Can someone clarify by what we mean with random events in an open world game?

Is this like Elder Scrolls where you can see AI vs AI like some dragon fighting some townspeople in the distance? Or like getting ambushed by ladies in the desert of RDR? Cause most of this is scripted anyway (3-4 variations), and after a couple gos, predictable. Maybe I have missed some holy grail of a game with random events that are truly random, so educate me as I'm not much of a RPG guy.
 

Sentenza

Member
To be honest I'm hoping that they are scripted. I'm tired of "dynamic random events" because they usually suck and are nothing more than a few low level enemies to slaughter.
As I said, for an open world ideally it should be a mix of both. With scripted content being the overwhelmingly major part, of course, but also with some little addition of "systemic randomness" to simulate wildlife and so on.
Packs of wolves, drowners, a deer running away, a random bear... That kind of stuff.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Err, is it just the Youtube video that's making this game look like it could have been done on the 360? It looks nice enough, but it doesn't really look "current gen" to me at all. Haven't downloaded the 1080p version, but I doubt that would do much to change my mind. It also feels very much like some ultra linear game like Assassin's Creed and even clausterphobic despite it looking more expansive.

It is nice though seeing locations and having a similar atmosphere in some areas as the first game.

However really at the end of the day you simply can't make an RPG without some form of collecting. It's a natural part of life and it's something that they can't really escape, but if every 'fetch' quest in the game is covered up with a narrative that interesting, I don't see a problem at all.

What? RPGs existed long before EverQuest, sorry.
 
Err, is it just the Youtube video that's making this game look like it could have been done on the 360?
Joke post?

But if it's not, even with the terrible compression of yt vids, if you think a 360 can achieve that kind of graphics then I do not really think anyone would need a xbo or a ps4.
 

-Deimos

Member
Can someone clarify by what we mean with random events in an open world game?

Is this like Elder Scrolls where you can see AI vs AI like some dragon fighting some townspeople in the distance? Or like getting ambushed by ladies in the desert of RDR? Cause most of this is scripted anyway (3-4 variations), and after a couple gos, predictable. Maybe I have missed some holy grail of a game with random events that are truly random, so educate me as I'm not much of a RPG guy.

Like RDR. Encounters that can happen anywhere, anytime (almost). The enemies are random, their loot is random, there are a bunch of random variables.

When I say scripted, I mean that nothing is random. The event will play out the same way for everyone.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Joke post?

But if it's not, even with the terrible compression of yt vids, if you think a 360 can achieve that kind of graphics then I do not really think anyone would need a xbo or a ps4.

You must have missed out on how TW2 looked on the 360. It was easily one of the best looking games of last gen. This game doesn't seem to really be pushing the systems like that did. And before you get your panties bunched up even further, I said that the game looks nice enough.
 
You must have missed out on how TW2 looked on the 360. It was easily one of the best looking games of last gen. This game doesn't seem to really be pushing the systems like that did. And before you get your panties bunched up even further, I said that the game looks nice enough.

It looks nice enough, but it doesn't really look "current gen" to me at all
Right, nice enough for a 360 game. Show me a game from last gen with the scope and the graphics like this then. And show me another game with the scope and graphics of "current" gen then?

Also, I did not tell you to not bunch up your panties, so how about let me do whatever I want with mine?
 

Tekku

Member
Not feeling this game yet. I enjoyed The Witcher 2 but I hoped for some kind of overhaul of the clunky combat system and some of the other gameplay mechanics. This doesn't seem to be a big step in that department. Geralt is also still an uninteresting and stereotypical character.

But there is some potential in other areas. The open world really looks beautiful.
 

Sanctuary

Member
Where did I mention EverQuest?

Obviously I haven't played every RPG ever made, but I highly doubt there's an RPG out there with 0 fetch quests.


Fetch (FedEx) quests didn't start becoming prominent until EverQuest had them as practically the majority of the questing system and then WoW due to it just copying so much from EverQuest. Later console games started implementing that shit and here we are today with people thinking that RPGs can't be done without multiple requests of acquiring 97 rat whiskers or the killing of 1000 dung beetles. As much as I loved Xenoblade Chronicles, it was one of the worst offenders in this way.

There was always some form of item collecting in many cRPG as well as most console RPGS before EverQuest, but it was almost always a miniscule amount, and really exploded into a "staple" mechanic after 99. It became really obnoxious last gen where practically every RPG after Oblivion implemented it and even non RPGs, but action/adventure games started adding that shit as a way to extended the playing time of a game. Hey, it's completely mundane and boring, but it's "content" and you gotta get that platinum right?
 

Sentenza

Member
Not feeling this game yet. I enjoyed The Witcher 2 but I hoped for some kind of overhaul of the clunky combat system and some of the other gameplay mechanics.
Well, they overhauled the combat heavily (with what results has yet to be seen) and the sequel is supposed to make use of vastly different gameplay mechanics, which should massively change a lot of how the game plays, starting with the degree of scenery interaction and world traverse.
So, good news, I guess?

Geralt is also still an uninteresting and stereotypical character.
Mh. No.
 

thuGG_pl

Member
After watching that 35 min trailer, I can say that it looks like a open-world version of Mass Effect. Disappointing to say the least, at least in regards to quests. CP stated that they wanted to do away with "fetch" quests - or make them subtle if any. But this video clearly demonstrated just that even going so far to demonstrate "quick travel" - far far from subtle. Ugh.. I knew it. No way they could live up to that promise. Checklist design.. here we go!

Sad to say this killed my hype more than anything. I was hoping the Witcher would take a bolder step direction of the RPG formula but here we are, another AAA-tier trope of emphasizing scope'n scale than the interactive nature of the game.

What a stupid assumption you make after seeing one quest.
 

Daverid

Member
Fetch quests didn't start becoming prominent until EverQuest had them as practically the majority of the questing system and then WoW due to it just copying so much from EverQuest. Later console games started implementing that shit and here we are today with people thinking that RPGs can't be done without multiple requests of acquiring 97 rat whiskers or the killing of 1000 dung beetles.

There was always some form of item collecting in many cRPG as well as most console RPGS before EverQuest, but it almost always a miniscule amount, and really exploded into a "staple" mechanic after 99. It became really obnoxious last gen where practically every RPG after Oblivion implemented it and even non RPGs, but action/adventure games started adding that shit as a way to extended the playing time of a game. Hey, it's completely mundane and boring, but it's "content" and you gotta get that platinum right?

I'm not talking about collecting 10 boar lungs MMO style... I'm talking about just straight up Fetch quests, which can be as simple as, "Hey go get me X book". Or in the case of The Witcher 3, "Go get my voice back from the harpies".
That was kind of the context of the previous discussion. Admittedly I did use the word "Collecting", but I didn't mean it like that, I meant it as 'Fetch/Collection' Quests.

Even Ultima, Baldur's Gate and the like had Fetch quests, and they weren't rare.
 

Tekku

Member
Well, they overhauled the combat heavily (with what results has yet to be seen) and the sequel is supposed to make use of vastly different gameplay mechanics, which should massively change a lot of how the game plays, starting with the degree of scenery interaction and world traverse.
So, good news, I guess?

It all sounds good, but I've yet to see any of these big changes.
 

Sanctuary

Member
I'm not talking about collecting 10 boar lungs MMO style... I'm talking about just straight up Fetch quests, which can be as simple as, "Hey go get me X book". Or in the case of The Witcher 3, "Go get my voice back from the harpies".
That was kind of the context of the previous discussion. Admittedly I did use the word "Collecting", but I didn't mean it like that, I meant it as 'Fetch/Collection' Quests.

Even Ultima, Baldur's Gate and the like had Fetch quests, and they weren't rare.

I've actually been replaying BG/BG2 a lot over the last five weeks, and while it has a few of those [tasks], it's not what I was talking about, or intrusive. I was talking about the now overused and ridiculous MMO style of garbage that is everpresent in too many genres it doesn't belong in nowadays. I hadn't actually read much of the discussion prior to replying to your post, so my bad I guess?
 

Daverid

Member
I've actually been replaying BG/BG2 a lot over the last five weeks, and while it has a few of those [tasks], it's not what I was talking about, or intrusive. I was talking about the now overused and ridiculous MMO style of garbage that is everpresent in too many genres it doesn't belong in nowadays. I hadn't actually read much of the discussion prior to replying to your post, so my bad I guess?

All good. Yea it was someone else above trying to imply that CDPR had stated that they were like completely doing away with Fetch quests altogether in TW3, which would just be absurd and probably almost impossible.

I 100% agree with you in regards to your issue though. There's very few times where I've actually enjoyed it.
Although Witcher 2 is actually one of those examples, that Harpy Quest was just beyond hilarious. I actually didn't do it in my first playthrough because I just passed it off as one of those shitty collecting quests, but I was glad I gave it a go eventually.
 

The_Monk

Member
I'm still catching up to such video for the lack of time but oh my, my good fellow GAFfers, this game is going to be such a great one. I love the bits of soundtrack, I have the physical soundtrack from The Witcher 2 and it's great, this one seems to be very interesting as well, those relaxing tunes when he was in town felt great and very peaceful.

I can see myself, after a long day, tired, after getting all things done by the end of the day and finally having that little bit of time for yourself to enjoy a hobby of yours. You put the game on and decide to make a quest, listening to some good soundtrack and lose yourself in the story of the game while exploring some new locations, finding news quests, fighting new monsters. All with your favourite tea, coffee or similar beverage. Seems like time well spent in my opinion. ;)
 

Tekku

Member
Valtýr;126690020 said:
There are some pretty obvious and major changes to the way the player character moves and animated in battle. It looks far more fluid and snappy. Really don't know how you can't see that.

I see a slightly tweaked TW2 combat system. It's hard to say anything about how it feels, since I haven't played the game yet. But from looking at it I can't say I'm getting excited. I just don't like the fundamental feel of the combat in The Witcher games. Moving around, striking with different attacks just doesn't feel very good. That's why I want a complete overhaul, not just the addition and tweaks of certain mechanics.

Enemy AI also seems to move in the same annoying way as in previous games. Stupid and either overly aggressive or defensive.
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I see a slightly tweaked TW2 combat system. It's hard to say anything about how it feels, since I haven't played the game yet. But from looking at it I can't say I'm getting excited. I just don't like the fundamental feel of the combat in The Witcher games. Moving around, striking with different attacks just doesn't feel very good. That's why I want a complete overhaul, not just the addition and tweaks of certain mechanics.

Enemy AI also seems to move in the same annoying way as in previous games. Stupid and either overly aggressive or defensive.
There's no such thing as overly aggressive in the world if the witcher. Gotta adapt and prepare yourself because Geralt is not a super human or a tank. He's a mutant that can be killed.
 
Not feeling this game yet. I enjoyed The Witcher 2 but I hoped for some kind of overhaul of the clunky combat system and some of the other gameplay mechanics. This doesn't seem to be a big step in that department. Geralt is also still an uninteresting and stereotypical character.

Stereotypical in what way? I always liked him as a character, as I felt his motives and actions in the gameworld felt more consistent and convincing then in any other game. Driven more by personal interests then being a hero, without being going the heremite route and being an ass about it.
 

jimboton

Member
I'm disappointed to see this is looking to be another standard quest marker driven rpg, Elder Scrolls style.

I could live with the fetch quests if they asked for something from the player, be it exploration, investigation, puzzle solving, challenging combat... some variety to it all that's not just visual and story related.
 

Bogey

Banned
I've only been following this game very infrequently so far, not very aware of all details -

Have they said anything about how player progression is handled?

This is my biggest concern. For me, one of the (possibly even the) most important aspect of open world games is improving your character, the whole kind of "from zero to hero" trip. Then again, it's still Geralt, a complete war machine and it'd be kind of unbelievable / not in line with the lore to let him start out barely being able to weild a sword.
So I would expect the player already starts out with some decent fighting abilities and possibly an ok looking armor, which means further progression might not feel too significant compared to other open world games. Have they mentioned anything how they'll handle this?
 

Crossing Eden

Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
I'm disappointed to see this is looking to be another standard quest marker driven rpg, Elder Scrolls style.

I could live with the fetch quests if they asked for something from the player, be it exploration, investigation, puzzle solving, challenging combat... some variety to it all that's not just visual and story related.
There was plenty of exploration and investigation in this video. And it's a witcher game so the combat will most likely be challenging.
 

Loginius

Member
You must have missed out on how TW2 looked on the 360. It was easily one of the best looking games of last gen. This game doesn't seem to really be pushing the systems like that did. And before you get your panties bunched up even further, I said that the game looks nice enough.

Witcher 2 was a gorgeous looking game, yes.
But it was also a very linear one, you could not stray from the path, even in the forest areas there were like 3 paths that you could actually use and the one more "open" area was very barren.

Witcher 3 is massive and has no restrictions where you can go whatsoever, thats why its called "open world" something like skyrim or gta.

Here are some screens for comparison, a city in witcher 2:
290350.jpg

a city in witcher 3:

Now lets look at some open world games from last gen:
skyrim:
and a similar shot from witcher 3:
or how about one of the best looking open world games from last gen (harder to compare but I think the point will come across):
gta V:
and here we have witcher 3:
or how about a "city" in both those games?

Clearly bullshots were used because thats what google finds, I tried to use good shots for all the games.
Hope this helps to give some perspective on why people think witcher 3 is one of the best looking next gen games yet.
 

EatChildren

Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I don't really understand the fetch quest complaints when generally that's what all RPG missions boil down to, even linear ones. If you really want to be picky most of both The Witcher and The Witcher 2 consisted of running errands, fetching shit, and killing stuff for people. This is fundamental quest/mission structure in order to highlight the core game mechanics, that being combat, dialogue, and exploration. And all three of these pillars, among others, are exactly what Geralt does in this quest arc. The problem is when this formula is overdone and makes you feel like you're treading water within the narrative, running errands without getting anywhere or evolving the lore and narrative.

I feel the demonstrated quest arc does a decent job of using a traditional formula to construct an interesting arc. The question is "Where's Ciri?", and it develops through several tiers without spelling out said developments to the player. You don't know what the creature is before you meet it. You don't know why it has lost its voice (this isn't fully explored in the demo either). You don't know what's at the top of the hill before you get there. You don't know what's going on with the possessed woman. You don't know what bond has been formed between her and the townsfolk. You don't know exactly what they're sending you to do. You're not sure what beasts you'll encounter on your travels. And in the end you're given a choice where you're not sure what is right or wrong.

The worst fetch quests are the ones that have you running dull, predictable errands with few developments. Travel from X to Y to speak to character to collect object. Character wont give object unless you kill ten wolves. Kill ten wolves, get object, return to X. Here, at least to me, there's a lot of mystery and unknown in how the quest arc develops in narrative. The structure is simple but the context is unpredictable and strange. And the payoff is something equally weird and disturbing.
 
Hope this helps to give some perspective on why people think witcher 3 is one of the best looking next gen games yet.

Good post but some of the images are kinda old. But on point. Sadly so many people failed to factor in the size of this game.

"Guess they never learn" -Geralt, 1273

Also to people who complains about fetch quests: keep in mind that Geralt is a monster hunter, going places to kill this and that is his profession.

As long as the narrative is awesome I don't give a damn, in the books he is exactly like that as well.
 
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