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[Salsa]

I dont like that attitude either but I think context is important. I live down here in third world land and can't get any 3DS title physically unless I wanna pay $120+

I buy everything on the eShop, yet Nintendo still doesnt offer me any sort of fail safe for any system related issues

so yeah, you bet i'd prefer to carry around a backup of my games in one of these

 

[wiibomb]

ummm... I'm not getting this well..

if I eventually buy this and run the program so that my 3DS becomes Region free, then I can play other region games? or do I have to get that flashcart for them to work?

I'm mighty interested in getting region free one of my 3DSs, not piracy that much...

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

I assume that amongst those mod/hacking circles fully working 3DS flashcart is the most sought after bounty and heavy money to be made.

Later down the DS life every single person I've known had a flashcart and I mean it.

Even this really casual and rather oblivious girl who only played puzzle games on her DS.

 

[kcxtorrent]

I thought Nintendo was Nintendo's worst nightmare

 

[AzureSkies]

Part of me wants to buy this and a 3DS to get around region locking, considering that I travel between Europe and North America yearly.

But, I know that the exploit will be patched. I guess I'll just wait till we have something more concrete.

 

[Aquamarine]

I really hate this selfish, entitled attitude. Go buy an open source device if you wanna experiment with hacking or homebrew. If this thing proliferates, future software prospects will become grim, especially for niche titles.

I wish it would be possible for Nintendo to partner with the FBI to pursue and arrest the suppliers of pirated games.

They're really the source of all potential profit shortfalls.

I really have no problem with hacking / homebrew / modding your console to be region free. Hell, I don't even have a problem with you dumping your own games and carrying them all around in one device.

It's simply those three / four piracy groups that ruin everything for the rest of us.

 

[Lesiroth]

I wish it would be possible for Nintendo to partner with the FBI to pursue and arrest the suppliers of pirated games.

They're really the source of all potential profit shortfalls.

I really have no problem with hacking / homebrew / modding your console to be region free. Hell, I don't even have a problem with you dumping your own games and carrying them all around in one device.

It's simply those three / four piracy groups that ruin everything for the rest of us.

Or, you know, Nintendo would just disable region-locking. Crazy thought eh?

 

[Aquamarine]

Or, you know, Nintendo would just disable region-locking. Crazy thought eh?

There would be piracy groups regardless if Nintendo made the 3DS region-free.

Just look at all of the piracy on the PS3.

 

[Lesiroth]

There will be piracy groups regardless if Nintendo made the 3DS region-free.

Just look at all of the piracy on the PS3.

I never argued otherwise. I'm just noting that it would be wise not to create additional legitimate demand for an already-in-demand product that is harmful to them.

 

[Lordwindowlicker]

I will not own it, and I will continue to purchase all of my 3DS games legitimately.

 

[massoluk]

May be if 3DS have games worth importing like Ouendan, I'll buy this if no hassle region free become reality.

 

[Aquamarine]

I never argued otherwise. I'm just noting that it would be wise not to create additional legitimate demand for an already-in-demand product that is harmful to them.

Oh okay. The way initially you phrased it gave me the impression that disabling region-locking would be sufficient to completely solve piracy for the device.

Piracy enabling is a definitely a motivating factor for people who are tempted by it. Some people may purchase it for the anti-region lock capabilities initially, but will stop purchasing new games / pirate new releases instead once they try out the piracy features.

Removing the impetus (anti-region lock) by making the 3DS region-free would create a stigma around the device as "just a piracy enabler," raise the barriers of temptation (people who don't pirate would less likely to get into pirating because they wouldn't purchase the device), and it would be easier to sue distributors in a courtroom.

But they would have to weigh those results with the reasons why Nintendo decided to take an region lock stance in the first place. As Iwata said a couple of months ago: "The industry isn’t doing this solely out of business ego."

 

[DonMigs85]

I dont like that attitude either but I think context is important. I live down here in third world land and can't get any 3DS title physically unless I wanna pay $120+

I buy everything on the eShop, yet Nintendo still doesnt offer me any sort of fail safe for any system related issues

so yeah, you bet i'd prefer to carry around a backup of my games in one of these

We're kinda lucky in the Philippines - games for all systems are about the same price or even slightly cheaper than in the USA. The consoles are a bit more expensive, but only by like $30-40.

 

[dallow_bg]

Eh, I'm still going to pass on this.
I'd want to be able to dump my own games, but if I can't do that myself, I won't bother.
(or preferably, play my actual import cart)

Guess I'll buy a "cheap" import 3DS sometime waaaaay down the line.

 

[Natureboy99]

Hardly Nintendo's nightmare as one firmware update will disable it.

That's why people make custom firmware.

 

[$h@d0w]

Gateway 3DS just legitimized itself.

The region free and firmware requirement bypass update has been publicly released. Owners of the Gateway 3DS just have to replace a file on the SD card to get this going.

 

[Shengar]

Nintendo ass must be on fire right now to see piracy would run rampant again on their handheld.

 

[baekshi]

So I need 4.5 firmware 3DS XL? Any idea where I can pick up a new 3DS XL with that firmware?

 

[r3n4ud]

Nintendo ass my must be on fire right now to see piracy would run rampant again on their handheld.

um...?

 

[Shengar]

Specifically, I'm most worried about those who decide to purchase the device for anti-region locking (and normally purchase games new) that are tempted to delve into piracy because it's easily accessible.

I'm worry about this too as well, especially in my country were piracy is still opted as the popular choice (go original, and you get mocked). Certainly region-locking didn't the only reason for hacking, but somehow it could be used as something to legitimized their hack.

um...?

Typo dude, don't worry I'm not high.

 

[r3n4ud]

Typo dude, don't worry I'm not high.

Ah, ok

 

[ambientmystic]

Subscribed for future developments. Such a fascinating read.

Didn't know Aquamarine was a bona fide Nintendo stockholder. The way she carries herself in the Media Create threads belies that fact. More class than the average Nintendo fanboy/girl in that thread and others discussing/blindly defending the shortcomings of Nintendo.

I tip my hat off to you, ma'am, and completely share your concerns about this device. On the other hand, if the demand weren't there, the impetus to create such a device would not exist either. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

For every door Nintendo (and other companies) closes, a new one is opened by enterprising crackers/hackers.

 

[gwarm01]

I would love to make my XL region free. I've been eyeing some Dragon Quest imports on Amazon, but didn't want to drop $150 on a Japanese 3DS. Too bad it would likely get patched out.

 

[KiTA]

I would love to make my XL region free. I've been eyeing some Dragon Quest imports on Amazon, but didn't want to drop $150 on a Japanese 3DS. Too bad it would likely get patched out.

Ditto, but I did end up dropping $150 on a Japanese 3DS. Well, $200 (The $150s have $50 shipping).

Terry's Wonderland is freaking amazing, BTW.

If I could just get the region delock part of this exploit on one of my 3DSes, and nothing else, I'd be a happy guy. Pity Nintendo's so anti-consumer this gen.

 

[Aquamarine]

Subscribed for future developments. Such a fascinating read.

Didn't know Aquamarine was a bona fide Nintendo stockholder. The way she carries herself in the Media Create threads belies that fact. More class than the average Nintendo fanboy/girl in that thread and others discussing/blindly defending the shortcomings of Nintendo.

I tip my hat off to you, ma'am, and completely share your concerns about this device. On the other hand, if the demand weren't there, the impetus to create such a device would not exist either. Necessity is the mother of invention, after all.

For every door Nintendo (and other companies) closes, a new one is opened by enterprising crackers/hackers.

Aww thanks.

Some data behind my concerns:

Nintendo of America has worked closely with DtecNet to monitor the extent of piracy throughout the world. Here is a small sliver of the extent of Nintendo piracy for the last three years (taken from Nintendo Special 301 filings):

Illegal P2P downloads of newly-released Nintendo (1st-party) games:

United States, 2010: 2,534,189 downloads
United States, 2011: 5,218,448 downloads, out of 45 titles tracked
United States, 2012: 895,978 downloads, out of 36 titles tracked

Worldwide chart, 2011:

(Note: China is undertracked)

Considering how the nature of DtecNet's tracking only accounts for a fraction of the total piracy for recently released Nintendo games, you can see how ridiculously pervasive piracy can be for these systems.

While I'm not equalizing one pirated download to one lost sale, it is impossible to deny that there are loads of people all around the world who would pirate a game at launch when they would otherwise buy it new, especially when it's easy to do so.

If Gateway hits DS levels of piracy for new software sales, it could potentially cripple the 3DS in the vulnerable North American market. Worst case scenario, it could lead to a premature death of the 3DS in the USA, similar to the PSP.

I just wish Gateway could have taken this into consideration and only made their product anti-region lock. Piracy ex post facto isn't really that harmful, but mass piracy of newly-released games really can ruin it for everyone.

 

[Tripon]

Gateway 3DS just legitimized itself.

The region free and firmware requirement bypass update has been publicly released. Owners of the Gateway 3DS just have to replace a file on the SD card to get this going.

This can't be a serious post. Lets be honest on how virtually everyone will use this device.

 

[Palette Swap]

This can't be a serious post. Lets be honest on how virtually everyone will use this device.

There's nothing factually incorrect in saying the device has now legitimate uses. If you read the thread, the people posting here are interested in that legitimate use.

 

[Tripon]

There's nothing factually incorrect in saying the device has now legitimate uses. If you read the thread, the people posting here are interested in that legitimate use.

I have, and I still don't think it justifies having a device like Gateway, since a sliver of people would actually use it 'legitimately'.

The DS had no region locking, and piracy was still rampant.

Let me put it this way, people who are willing to buy a device that costs more than 2 3DS games at full price are not going to use it as solely as a bypass to region locked games. The cost for Gateway is just way too expensive for that.

People are going to buy this because they expect 'free' games after getting this.

 

[synce]

Am I seeing things... the 3DS is now region free thanks to these fine men?? I'm seriously considering buying a 3DS now, just waiting on some Gateway reviews

 

[The Abominable Snowman]

There's nothing factually incorrect in saying the device has now legitimate uses. If you read the thread, the people posting here are interested in that legitimate use.

Forget all that.

Progress on meandering around hardware security has always intrigued me. Perhaps not as much now, since there are open Android devices that are far more powerful and capable than the 3DS, but I can still appreciate the work done on hardware hacking just for the proposed utility.

 

[FrozenCell]

suck it reggie (3:07)

 

[sega4ever]

Aww thanks.

Some data behind my concerns:

Nintendo of America has worked closely with DtecNet to monitor the extent of piracy throughout the world. Here is a small sliver of the extent of Nintendo piracy for the last three years (taken from Nintendo Special 301 filings):

Illegal P2P downloads of newly-released Nintendo (1st-party) games:

United States, 2010: 2,534,189 downloads
United States, 2011: 5,218,448 downloads, out of 45 titles tracked
United States, 2012: 895,978 downloads, out of 36 titles tracked

Worldwide chart, 2011:

(Note: China is undertracked)

Considering how the nature of DtecNet's tracking only accounts for a fraction of the total piracy for recently released Nintendo games, you can see how ridiculously pervasive piracy can be for these systems.

While I'm not equalizing one pirated download to one lost sale, it is impossible to deny that there are loads of people all around the world who would pirate a game at launch when they would otherwise buy it new, especially when it's easy to do so.

If Gateway hits DS levels of piracy for new software sales, it could potentially cripple the 3DS in the vulnerable North American market. Worst case scenario, it could lead to a premature death of the 3DS in the USA, similar to the PSP.

I just wish Gateway could have taken this into consideration and only made their product anti-region lock. Piracy ex post facto isn't really that harmful, but mass piracy of newly-released games really can ruin it for everyone.

was the ds crippled by piracy in the united states?

 

[Mr Swine]

Aww thanks.

Some data behind my concerns:

Nintendo of America has worked closely with DtecNet to monitor the extent of piracy throughout the world. Here is a small sliver of the extent of Nintendo piracy for the last three years (taken from Nintendo Special 301 filings):

Illegal P2P downloads of newly-released Nintendo (1st-party) games:

United States, 2010: 2,534,189 downloads
United States, 2011: 5,218,448 downloads, out of 45 titles tracked
United States, 2012: 895,978 downloads, out of 36 titles tracked

Worldwide chart, 2011:

(Note: China is undertracked)

Considering how the nature of DtecNet's tracking only accounts for a fraction of the total piracy for recently released Nintendo games, you can see how ridiculously pervasive piracy can be for these systems.

While I'm not equalizing one pirated download to one lost sale, it is impossible to deny that there are loads of people all around the world who would pirate a game at launch when they would otherwise buy it new, especially when it's easy to do so.

If Gateway hits DS levels of piracy for new software sales, it could potentially cripple the 3DS in the vulnerable North American market. Worst case scenario, it could lead to a premature death of the 3DS in the USA, similar to the PSP.

I just wish Gateway could have taken this into consideration and only made their product anti-region lock. Piracy ex post facto isn't really that harmful, but mass piracy of newly-released games really can ruin it for everyone.

Ugh, I really really hope that Nintendo stops this. Last thing we need is the whole portable market getting killed in the US because of pirates :/

Edit: well Nintendo can kill it off by releasing a 3DSi without any DS BC and upgraded specs like they did with DSi

 

[Daniel Jackson]

I'll pass. Years ago I had a DS flash cart and countless downloaded games. But I have never completed any of them, because I kept downloading new games all the time. So I lost interest in the old ones.
So I don't want that to happen again. Games just have to be completed. Actually paying for a game is a pretty good motivation to finish it.

 

[Mpl90]

Aww thanks.

Some data behind my concerns:

Nintendo of America has worked closely with DtecNet to monitor the extent of piracy throughout the world. Here is a small sliver of the extent of Nintendo piracy for the last three years (taken from Nintendo Special 301 filings):

Illegal P2P downloads of newly-released Nintendo (1st-party) games:

United States, 2010: 2,534,189 downloads
United States, 2011: 5,218,448 downloads, out of 45 titles tracked
United States, 2012: 895,978 downloads, out of 36 titles tracked

Worldwide chart, 2011:

(Note: China is undertracked)

Considering how the nature of DtecNet's tracking only accounts for a fraction of the total piracy for recently released Nintendo games, you can see how ridiculously pervasive piracy can be for these systems.

While I'm not equalizing one pirated download to one lost sale, it is impossible to deny that there are loads of people all around the world who would pirate a game at launch when they would otherwise buy it new, especially when it's easy to do so.

If Gateway hits DS levels of piracy for new software sales, it could potentially cripple the 3DS in the vulnerable North American market. Worst case scenario, it could lead to a premature death of the 3DS in the USA, similar to the PSP.

I just wish Gateway could have taken this into consideration and only made their product anti-region lock. Piracy ex post facto isn't really that harmful, but mass piracy of newly-released games really can ruin it for everyone.

Despite China being undertracked, holy fuc*ing shit at Italy, being second worldwide. I knew we were a big part in the R4 phenomenon, but...this is shocking.

 

[Jac_Solar]

I wish it would be possible for Nintendo to partner with the FBI to pursue and arrest the suppliers of pirated games.

They're really the source of all potential profit shortfalls.

I really have no problem with hacking / homebrew / modding your console to be region free. Hell, I don't even have a problem with you dumping your own games and carrying them all around in one device.

It's simply those three / four piracy groups that ruin everything for the rest of us.

I've been curious about something similar to this. There seems to only be a couple of groups, or people, who distribute the somewhat complex cracks to new games -- or at least the basic program/structure for providing a crack. I'm sure people know who these groups are. Has any publisher or developer tried reaching out to them, and, like, get them to hold off on releasing for a few weeks or months? Or even get them to stop providing cracks for their games? Or get a well respected group to make everyone hold off on releasing for awhile?

Or would this be pointless, and new groups and cracks would just pop up after a few days from someone else? It doesn't seem like that -- if there isn't a crack from one of the 3-4 main groups, there is no crack. There are very, very rarely nameless, random cracks -- most are just workarounds, or a workaround of a crack released by one of the main groups.

 

[Aquamarine]

I've been curious about something similar to this. There seems to only be a couple of groups, or people, who distribute the somewhat complex cracks to new games -- or at least the basic program/structure for providing a crack. I'm sure people know who these groups are. Has any publisher or developer tried reaching out to them, and, like, get them to hold off on releasing for a few weeks or months? Or even get them to stop providing cracks for their games? Or get a well respected group to make everyone hold off on releasing for awhile?

Or would this be pointless, and new groups and cracks would just pop up after a few days from someone else? It doesn't seem like that -- if there isn't a crack from one of the 3-4 main groups, there is no crack. There are very, very rarely nameless, random cracks -- most are just workarounds, or a workaround of a crack released by one of the main groups.

So the piracy scene for the 3DS consists of exactly six groups.

These six groups receive donations in the form of new / used cartridges, which come from a variety of (usually anonymous) sources. These are called "suppliers." The groups then dump a 3DS game and share it through highly private channels, where people quickly disseminate the pirated work into typical piracy havens.

At the moment, dumping a 3DS game is complex and requires specialized hardware, so it can only be done in the hands of skilled piracy groups. Feasibly, if the FBI were to work with international crime agencies and arrest all of these six groups (they have arrested groups in the past), 3DS piracy would be dealt a huge psychological blow (and might just be stopped altogether).

But that kind of coordination can be hard to pull off, and it would quite difficult to track down the piracy groups. I'm sure if Nintendo / a developer had the ability to communicate with them, they would immediately alert the authorities.

 

[FrozenCell]

Am I seeing things... the 3DS is now region free thanks to these fine men?? I'm seriously considering buying a 3DS now, just waiting on some Gateway reviews

GBAtemp gave it 8.5
http://gbatemp.net/review/gateway-3ds.79/

 

[SmokyDave]

was the ds crippled by piracy in the united states?

It sold a shit load more software than the 3DS, even proportional to the userbase. I'd say 'no'.

 

[poopninjamvc3mk]

Wow. I don't know why but I always expected that when 3DS get hacked, it would be something like the amazing custom firmwares on PSP rather than the old Flash Cart ways of DS. This is neat too but I just hope piracy doesn't become as huge as it was on DS(or even PSP).

 

[Sandfox]

was the ds crippled by piracy in the united states?

It sold a shit load more software than the 3DS, even proportional to the userbase. I'd say 'no'.

DS games probably would have put up way bigger numbers if it wasn't for flashcards. I think the fact a lot of young and super casual people bought the DS helped it a lot in that aspect though.

 

[Sakura]

It sold a shit load more software than the 3DS, even proportional to the userbase. I'd say 'no'.

Wouldn't that simply be because the DS had a lot more software to sell than the 3DS?

Anyway, how will the Gateway 3DS handle digital only releases, like Phoenix Wright or Senran Kagura Burst? I could see more niche titles going digital only as a way to combat piracy.

 

[Aquamarine]

Wouldn't that simply be because the DS had a lot more software to sell than the 3DS?

Anyway, how will the Gateway 3DS handle digital only releases, like Phoenix Wright or Senran Kagura Burst? I could see more niche titles going digital only as a way to combat piracy.

Thankfully, 3DS piracy has not progressed to eShop-exclusive releases...it only exists for retail cartridges. So Gateway 3DS hasn't been designed to support it yet.

The issue with a digital-only release is that you lose all retail exposure and negatively impact sales of your game. But yes, for niche releases, whose sales are largely determined by word-of-mouth through the Internet, it might be better to go download-only.

 

[Jac_Solar]

So the piracy scene for the 3DS consists of exactly six groups.

These six groups receive donations in the form of new / used cartridges, which come from a variety of (usually anonymous) sources. These are called "suppliers." The groups then dump a 3DS game and share it through highly private channels, where people quickly disseminate the pirated work into typical piracy havens.

At the moment, dumping a 3DS game is complex and requires specialized hardware, so it can only be done in the hands of skilled piracy groups. Feasibly, if the FBI were to work with international crime agencies and arrest all of these six groups (they have arrested groups in the past), 3DS piracy would be dealt a huge psychological blow (and might just be stopped altogether).

But that kind of coordination can be hard to pull off, and it would quite difficult to track down the piracy groups. I'm sure if Nintendo / a developer had the ability to communicate with them, they would immediately alert the authorities.

I also wonder how the general sales of games and hardware would have done without piracy. Piracy surely made people aware of new games, developers and so forth, but it doesn't sound similar at all to PC games piracy, for example, so I wonder how often people who pirated games on 3DS/DS started buying again.

But even on the DS or 3DS, I don't think 1 downloaded game means 1 lost sale in the big picture. That person who downloaded that game might have bought a legit copy he would not have bought otherwise, or made him aware of a unique series of games, genre of games, a developer, etc. There's a lot more room to try out games when they are free. And I think A LOT of "pirated downloads" are redownloads and collector downloads -- as in, a lot of them wouldn't have bought the game to begin with. Overall, my impression is that maybe, in general, on PC, 25%-30% of pirated game downloads goes to people who would have bought it otherwise. Probably a lot less. No idea about DS/3DS since it's such a unique structure (Requires you to crack the entire system, as opposed to each game. It's significantly easier to download the entire database of games released.)

I'm sure new updates from Nintendo, or unique features would have incentivized people to return to a legit firmware, but I'm not sure if Nintendo even tried that.

 

[Aquamarine]

I would also like to point out that ever since Gateway 3DS has been announced / released, the amount of pirated 3DS games available has accelerated at a staggering pace.

There seems to be a direct correlation between the availability of a piracy enabler and the motivation of piracy groups.

 

[Brawly Likes to Brawl]

Makes sense. Why bother dumping a game if there isn't anything that can play it at the moment?

 

[Law Abiding Stranger]

So apparently new firmware update is out and, indeed, the system is now region free and allows firmware spoofing (you can trick system into playing higher FW games).

Have to admit, kudos to them.

 

[lordchompy]

Aww thanks.
Worldwide chart, 2011:

Italy having the second highest rate of Nintendo piracy is almost not surprising, with Nintendo's mascot being an Italiano and all. Mama Mia!

 

[Sakura]

So apparently new firmware update is out and, indeed, the system is now region free and allows firmware spoofing (you can trick system into playing higher FW games).

Have to admit, kudos to them.

Isn't the only game requiring that, Mario & Luigi? I assume all it is doing is just checking what firmware number the 3DS gives it. But if Nintendo were to make new games require functionality or something only available in a new firmware version, then I think that might present the Gateway guys a bit more trouble.

 

[Tohsaka]

Makes sense. Why bother dumping a game if there isn't anything that can play it at the moment?

That didn't really stop the PS3 scene. Games were regularly dumped before the system was hacked.