Support NeoGAF

[Elaugaufein]

It makes me wonder if Bernie would have actually been better for the health of the Democratic party in the long run despite his outsider status, much like Trump has been detrimental to the Republican party.

That depends what you mean by health

In the terms of "my team winning elections" metric , no. While the Republicans are actively trying to screw over young people, the Democratic party has no need to court them, they either don't vote or break Dem anyway.

In terms of policy approach, maybe, but the Democratic Party has been far more responsive than I would have expected already, so I have my doubts.

 

[ShadowKingpin]

This is what happens when you have two candidates that represent what has ruined America. People are sick and tired of the same garbage running for office. Trump is worse by far, but Hillary was the worst decision Democrats have ever made. I'm still baffled by how people voted for the one individual with years of scandals over the guy with a consistent and clean record.

 

[Lord Frieza]

This is what happens when you have two candidates that represent what has ruined America. People are sick and tired of the same garbage running for office. Trump is worse by far, but Hillary was the worst decision Democrats have ever made. I'm still baffled by how people voted for the one individual with years of scandals over the guy with a consistent and clean record.

Mainly because those scandals were actually "scandals," and more or less remain to be

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is what happens when you have two candidates that represent what has ruined America. People are sick and tired of the same garbage running for office. Trump is worse by far, but Hillary was the worst decision Democrats have ever made. I'm still baffled by how people voted for the one individual with years of scandals over the guy with a consistent and clean record.

I dunno I'd go with McGovern or Mondale, Dukakis

Especially McGovern just look at the Thomas Eagleton debacle for that.

I think maybe you're being a tad hyperbolic and irrational.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Well, if you could change voting to instant runoff, you could get more than 2 parties with significant numbers.

You still wouldn't--because the presidency is useless without the house, senate, governorships, etc. and requires an absurd amount of money to win. The entire system is geared for winner take all. This is even true at the lower levels. Look at California, which has a top 2 primary (i.e. A runoff) Do you end up with third party candidates?

 

[kirblar]

It makes me wonder if Bernie would have actually been better for the health of the Democratic party in the long run despite his outsider status, much like Trump has been detrimental to the Republican party.

If the insurgent outsider winning the nom has been a net negative for the GOP, wouldn't it logically follow that the insurgent outsider would have similar negative effects on the Dems?

 

[jack_package_200]

If the insurgent outsider winning the nom has been a net negative for the GOP, wouldn't it logically follow that the insurgent outsider would have similar negative effects on the Dems?

Well looking at the GE map if Bernie was the nom, things would be a lot closer. Florida would likely be Trump territory.

I think maybe you're being a tad hyperbolic and irrational.

People who are still upset about the primary at this point are being ridiculous.

 

[Mr. RPG]

Well looking at the GE map if Bernie was the nom, things would be a lot closer. Florida would likely be Trump territory.

Bernie would easily beat Trump in a general election.

 

[jack_package_200]

Bernie would easily beat Trump in a general election.

He would likely win but I doubt it would be doing as well as Hillary at this stage. Him being a democratic socialist would be a problem in many swing states like Florida.

 

[TheLostBigBoss]

He would likely win but I doubt it would be doing as well as Hillary at this stage. Him being a democratic socialist would be a problem in many swing states like Florida.

And his comments on Cuba would be bad, bad fucking news

 

[jchap]

I'm certainly not voting for either of them

 

[Valhelm]

Bernie would easily beat Trump in a general election.

I think so, but even when I was voting for Bernie I was worried if he might not be able to drum up as much GE support as Hillary could.

 

[BlastProcessing]

This is what happens when you have two candidates that represent what has ruined America. People are sick and tired of the same garbage running for office. Trump is worse by far, but Hillary was the worst decision Democrats have ever made. I'm still baffled by how people voted for the one individual with years of scandals over the guy with a consistent and clean record.

Sanders had a clean record because he had no record. Nobody litigated his record during the primaries. Clinton wasn't going to go negative and the GOP were rooting for the guy. Dude never even released his taxes. He also stopped releasing his FEC filings. He just kept filing for extensions until he dropped out.

I would also point out Sanders time on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. He was one of the people who directly oversaw the decline of the VA as an organization.

Sanders is a career politician there is no way has a clean record.

Bernie would easily beat Trump in a general election.

That's a good bet. I would worry about the quality of his staff. Weaver seemed in over his head. The decision to punt in the South was an insanely bad one. The campaign had trouble broadening its message in general.

The Manafort Russia stuff would have played out differently as well because Sanders Chief Strategist Tad Devine worked side by side with Manafort for Yanukovich. So that attack would have hurt both camps and muddied the waters.

 

[Dan]

Sanders had a clean record because he had no record. Nobody litigated his record during the primaries. Clinton wasn't going to go negative and the GOP were rooting for the guy. Dude never even released his taxes. He also stopped releasing his FEC filings. He just kept filing for extensions until he dropped out.

I would also point out Sanders time on the Senate Veterans Affairs Committee. He was one of the people who directly oversaw the decline of the VA as an organization.

Sanders is a career politician there is no way has a clean record.

He also went pretty untouched on all his old super radical comments from the 70s and 80s. Republicans would have had a field day with all the explicit, direct quotes that make him out to be the bogeyman of anyone who even moderately likes capitalism.

Certainly the idea that Bernie Sanders was somehow fully vetted is a hilarious joke. Republicans would have loved to go after him. He's the strawman they're often trying to paint Democrats to be, and they'd get to go after him with all kinds of new dirt rather than desperately rehashing ancient stuff with Hillary.

 

[Lord Frieza]

Man, some of you BoBers are just so ridiculous. Yeah, Bernie, who got bodied like hell in the primaries, would have a such an easier time winning the general than the person who totally bodied him lol.

Oh yeah, DNC conspiracy to keep Bernie down that doesn't really exist to begin proved otherwise! I forget!

 

[Mr. RPG]

Man, some of you BoBers are just so ridiculous. Yeah, Bernie, who got bodied like hell in the primaries, would have a such an easier time winning the general than the person who totally bodied him lol.

Oh yeah, DNC conspiracy to keep Bernie down that doesn't really exist to begin proved otherwise! I forget!

You're delusional.

 

[B-Dubs]

You're delusional.

Have you ever heard of Sierra Blanca? I guarantee you that it would've come up and do a gigantic amount of damage had he won.

 

[Bam Bam Baklava]

We went through this in 2008 and 2012 where people kept saying Clinton would be doing better right now compared to Obama. The comparisons are pointless and always spun in the most positive or negative angle.

Sanders could be doing better, the same, or worse right now. Who the hell knows, let's just make sure Trump does not win right now.

 

[Spiritreaver]

I supported Sanders and I would have been worried he'd fumble his own GE campaign along the way. I mean, this Our Revolution thing is starting off rocky. What was his GOTV campaign like? I don't think it's fair to sanctify the guy as if he'd run a perfect campaign or wouldn't have dirt brought out on him.

Also how did he do with black voters? I'm curious how well he'd handle this current Trump pivot.

I mean if we're going to go hypothetical, we might as well go full hypothetical.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I supported Sanders and I would have been worried he'd fumble his own GE campaign along the way. I mean, this Our Revolution thing is starting off rocky. What was his GOTV campaign like? I don't think it's fair to sanctify the guy as if he'd run a perfect campaign or wouldn't have dirt brought out on him.

Also how did he do with black voters? I'm curious how well he'd handle this current Trump pivot.

I mean if we're going to go hypothetical, we might as well go full hypothetical.

He would have needed to accept large parts of the Democratic machine into his campaign. I wonder if he would have turned away skilled and necessary operatives because they didn't pass purity tests. Probably not, but I worry how well the team would have gelled.

 

[CoffeeJanitor]

Hillary is not getting a second term that's for sure. This is the only scenario where she could have won, a disastrous candidate on the other side and no charismatic democrat.

Yeah I feel like if they put anyone who looks reasonable out here she'll get crushed. See kasich.

 

[guek]

That depends what you mean by health

In the terms of "my team winning elections" metric , no. While the Republicans are actively trying to screw over young people, the Democratic party has no need to court them, they either don't vote or break Dem anyway.

In terms of policy approach, maybe, but the Democratic Party has been far more responsive than I would have expected already, so I have my doubts.

If the insurgent outsider winning the nom has been a net negative for the GOP, wouldn't it logically follow that the insurgent outsider would have similar negative effects on the Dems?

I mean more in terms of party longevity and engagement of the youth vote. I know he wasn't as effective energizing young voters as Obama but he was a hell of a lot better at it than Hillary.

 

[BlastProcessing]

Hillary is not getting a second term that's for sure. This is the only scenario where she could have won, a disastrous candidate on the other side and no charismatic democrat.

What makes you think that GOP primary voters would pick an acceptable candidate in 2020? That base isn't going away anytime soon and the GOP leadership is too cowardly and ineffectual to do anything about it.

I think it gets worse after Trump. He just opened the door, we still haven't seen the Alt-Right's final form.

Yeah I feel like if they put anyone who looks reasonable out here she'll get crushed. See kasich.

Case in point, I don't think there is any way in hell that Kasich gets through a primary process.

 

[MHWilliams]

I supported Sanders and I would have been worried he'd fumble his own GE campaign along the way. I mean, this Our Revolution thing is starting off rocky. What was his GOTV campaign like? I don't think it's fair to sanctify the guy as if he'd run a perfect campaign or wouldn't have dirt brought out on him.

Also how did he do with black voters? I'm curious how well he'd handle this current Trump pivot.

I mean if we're going to go hypothetical, we might as well go full hypothetical.

Not amazing, but the reality is black voters would picked their best option at that point, which would be Sanders.