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[IN&OUT]

Agreed. We aren't. But you see, that isn't all the reason's he cited. He also cited efficiency.

Explain then what he said in the interview: how is a 300 hp Porsche faster than a 700 hp corvette? THE NUMBERS DON'T LIIIIEEE1!!1!1!1! right?

excuse me but what would make X1 more efficient than PS4? that ridiculous eSRAM? or the fewer CUs?

PS4 have more of everything PLUS a unified GDDR5 ram that ensure efficiency (hUMA).

 

[Lord Error]

The problem is, despite what Albert is saying, that neither machine is really all that powerful, so even a smaller than 40% advantage can be meaningful in that situation, and he seems resigned that there is indeed advantage, just not that big.

 

[CitizenCope]

Why does this thread have so many hits and growing? Oh it's an XB1 thread. =/

 

[GavinGT]

Also claiming to not being paid by MSFT for posting on GAF is comic.

If you identify yourself as an employee of MSFT or any company, you are representing their views when posting on a public forum. So honestly Penello, cut the crap.

Of course he's representing the company, but that doesn't mean that part of his job is to come and post on GAF. He chooses to do it.

 

[Marleyman]

Yup. He denies it though. He got all salty on twitter when i questioned his unbiased "stance".

If I was him and someone tweeted me with that nonsense I wouldn't even bother responding.

 

[Piggus]

40% more TFlops doesn't translate to 40% better looking/running games is what he's saying.

"40% better looking" isn't even a thing. It's totally subjective. For some people, better AA, resolution, and framerate represents a game that looks "40%" better. But others may only see those as minor differences and are looking for higher quality assets and effects instead.

 

[Teriyaki]

Some gaffers are weird. Taking a handful of performance metrics and using it as irrefutable proof that something is better feels misguided. Using powerpoint slides to gauge what your own personal experience will be - let alone trying to convince someone else - doesn't really make sense.

Developer needs tons of talent just to get close to these numbers on paper and then still need a team that can build an experience worthwhile. There are plenty of titles that look amazing on any of this gen's consoles, but suffered greatly in other areas while there are titles that focused on other things besides gameplay and succeeded. Both consoles this gen had it in spades and I'm certain they'll have it next gen too.

 

[ypo]

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

So a 40% more powerful means almost nothing so why did your company bother with a 9% CPU boost and trumpeted that in your Press Release? I thought you don't want to be associated with the PR team and yet here again you are sprouting some nonsense PR bullshit.

 

[BigDug13]

I think the general point he's trying to communicate is something like what happened with cell phones. There was a time period when iPhones, and even Windows Phones (which, according to raw specs, were worse than Android phones) felt faster and more responsive than Android phones, and this was routinely called out in reviews of the actual released products.

Of course, this didn't necessarily mean "Android phones are shit! iPhone 4 life!" or anything like that, but only that looking at specs solely on their own isn't always the best indicator of how released products will perform when in front of an end user.

Of course, it could very well turn out to be true that Xbox One is shit, and PS4 4 life all day err day...but that'll be known when games are actually released over the next few years, (and when developers can actually talk more freely about them) not from just looking at a spec list by itself.

That's a terrible point to make though. Android apps have to function with an insanely wide range of hardware with a wide range of Android OS's loaded. This comparison only makes sense if there are a bunch of different XBO's in existence that have different OS versions and different hardware and every game must work on all of them. iPhone may the advantage in app development as there is only a handful of OS's and hardware specs for a developer to worry about. BUT that's still more than either of these consoles have so the comparison is invalid.

If there was an app developed that only worked on the latest iphone with the latest OS and the same app is developed for the latest Galaxy phone with the latest Android OS, then this comparison has merit.

 

[RedNumberFive]

Also you must stand nude in front of Kinect once a day to update the NSA genitalia-recognition database.

Or as we called it in the 360 days - UNO.

 

[apana]

Yeah I am going to judge by looking at the games. At this point I am suspicious of PR people, graphics "experts", and the fans. Too many agendas to take anyone's word for it.

 

[TheTwelve]

As somebody who owns a 360 and PS3 I've yet to see games on the Xbox that match some of the exclusives on PS3. I'm talking Uncharteds and Killzones and God of Wars here. Hell GT5 has night, snow, rain, and insane lighting etc.

Seems like the PS3 did have the power this gen - they just made it onerously difficult to tap into.

I can't put it better than this. All due respect to Albert but the graphical history of last gen is clear to see.

 

[BadAss2961]

I think of the Xbox One like a DBZ character. Yes, analogy time, and no I'm not using a terrible car analogy. I'm using an amazingly fresh, and innovative, DBZ analogy.

Xbox One is like Vegeta on Namek. It's not his first dance out amongst the stars, and he's learnt a few new tricks. He's up against some stiff competition like Zarbon, Krillin, and Yamcha. Now some people, like Zarbon, use their scouter and think Vegeta is weak. But what you see on the surface is not all. Instead, Vegeta can hide his true power level and only reveal it when it's necessary. This then takes everyone, the gaming world in this case, by surprise when he starts pumping out stronger energy beams than they expected.

So, Xbox One is like Vegeta.

Sure Vegeta also ends up meeting Frieza in the same story arc, is beaten to within an inch of his life, and then cries himself to death like a true pussy, but that's another story.

"PS4's power level... It can't be..."

 

[Pug]

God help us when the games are launched!

 

[Barzul]

Also claiming to not being paid by MSFT for posting on GAF is comic.

If you identify yourself as an employee of MSFT or any company, you are representing their views when posting on a public forum. So honestly Penello, cut the crap.

So anyone who works for any company that posts on public forums like twitter is spouting company views all the time? It just doesn't work like that, people can have opinions and I think it more likely than not that their opinions on issues will be aligned in favor of the company they work for.

 

[Wynnebeck]

I am not reading this like you I guess. Mind you I know he works for MS and tries to be honest as much he can while still keeping positive on theirp roduct.

All he's saying is that MS isn't the devil and that Sony isn't god.

Sony isn't going to say anything against themselves either.

Are any of you noticing the other aspects such as efficiency and tools quality that could play a huge role in how the numbers add up?

There really is more to this then your "cold, hard" numbers.

Why are you coming at me with that mess? I'm not debating the numbers because they are there for everyone to read. What I'm not agreeing with it Penello's insistence on knowing the power difference between the two consoles when quite frankly he doesn't.

 

[derFeef]

Yup. He denies it though. He got all salty on twitter when i questioned his unbiased "stance".

I bet your tweet was very civilized and fair, and not salty at all.

 

[Mutagenic]

This thread makes it easy to tell which side of the fence people are on.

 

[Uno Venova]

He admits there are plenty of things he doesn't know about PS4's architecture. But he has an army of intelligent engineers working under him who can provide him with educated guesses as to the missing pieces. I'm sure he's sat in on dozens of meetings where these engineers have gone over the potential power differences and what those would mean for the end user.

I agree, but I don't think they know much more than what's already available on the web.

All he's saying is that MS isn't the devil and that Sony isn't god.

Sony isn't going to say anything against themselves either.

Are any of you noticing the other aspects such as efficiency and tools quality that could play a huge role in how the numbers add up?

There really is more to this then your "cold, hard" numbers.

Do people just cite numbers solely? People also talk about developer impressions from Gamescom saying the same things about noticeable hardware advantages.

 

[RedAssedApe]

I think of the Xbox One like a DBZ character. Yes, analogy time, and no I'm not using a terrible car analogy. I'm using an amazingly fresh, and innovative, DBZ analogy.

Xbox One is like Vegeta on Namek. It's not his first dance out amongst the stars, and he's learnt a few new tricks. He's up against some stiff competition like Zarbon, Krillin, and Yamcha. Now some people, like Zarbon, use their scouter and think Vegeta is weak. But what you see on the surface is not all. Instead, Vegeta can hide his true power level and only reveal it when it's necessary. This then takes everyone, the gaming world in this case, by surprise when he starts pumping out stronger energy beams than they expected.

So, Xbox One is like Vegeta.

Sure Vegeta also ends up meeting Frieza in the same story arc, is beaten to within an inch of his life, and then cries himself to death like a true pussy, but that's another story.

At the end of DBZ Vegeta realizes that he is not the strongest and no matter how hard he trains, there is going to be at least one person better than him. Xbox One indeed.

 

[Phades]

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

I'm not shooting the messenger here, honest.

There has been differences on every generation. How well titles are coded makes a large difference in if that difference is noticable or not. Other times it was more fundamental, like how the discs/carts were read and interacted with the hardware (NEC console and portable comes to mind with this, as does Neo Geo). Then comes the task of trying to compare the exclusive titles to each platform with the assumption they tried to swing for the fences and squeeze out every little bit of advantage that platform had versus its competitor and make that advantage be noticable.

The only real "problem" with this generation (arguably the problem is a boon for PC gamers) is that the they are so similar which enables those more familiar with computer hardware in general to take the next step and speculate the relative differences and potential for each of the 2 upcoming consoles. I personally don't believe this to be a fallacy in general, but I am aware that design choices on how a game will work largely relies upon what resources are available. The corrolation between folks equating resources to assets or overal design could be a leap of logic, but that aspect is the only thing we are really waiting on when the consoles launch offically.

Personally, I am still leery about the DRM checkins and trophy tie ins on both sides of the fence and I am not a fan of the practice as it has denied my ability to actually play games when I have time available to do so (was burned with white knight chronicles specifically on the PS3). This is unrelated to ISP difficulties and is solely on the shoulders of the secondary service provided from the first party console developers. In some ways I am waiting for Sony's shoe to drop and mess that up a bit, similar to following suit with online play behind a paywall. But again, that falls to when the consoles actually launch and what happens down the road. For me, this kind of concern is an extention of trying to predict which way the market will head and trying to avoid unfavorable practices that does not benefit the consumer at all with an unusable product. In no way does this entice me to go with either product offering from Sony or Microsoft in spite of hardware and potential software advances.

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

Why would anyone agree with such a vague insult?

It's not an insult, its the truth. Albert is more credible than Phil Spencer. Furthermore, Phil Spencer comes across as fake, and nothing you say will change that fact. Save your faux outrage for someone else!

 

[ThatChairMan]

excuse me but what would make X1 more efficient than PS4? that ridiculous eSRAM? or the fewer CUs?

PS4 have more of everything PLUS a unified GDDR5 ram that ensure efficiency (hUMA).

I don't believe the difference between these systems will be as significant as comparing individual components.

Not as significant =/= more efficient.

 

[Marleyman]

It's not an insult, its the truth. Albert is more credible than Phil Spencer. Furthermore, Phil Spencer comes across as fake, and nothing you say will change that fact. Save your faux outrage for someone else!

I could have sworn you were referring to Albert; my apologies. I agree with you on that one.

 

[soul creator]

That's a terrible point to make though. Android apps have to function with an insanely wide range of hardware with a wide range of Android OS's loaded. This comparison only makes sense if there are a bunch of different XBO's in existence that have different OS versions and different hardware and every game must work on all of them. iPhone may the advantage in app development as there is only a handful of OS's and hardware specs for a developer to worry about. BUT that's still more than either of these consoles have so the comparison is invalid.

You just pointed out that there are other things besides just "raw specs" that play a role in how a product performs...which is the entire point I was making. So cool, we agree!

And of course, the actual end result could of course end up being 100% in PS4's favor, and may even be likely. But that'll be determined from seeing actual released products, not solely just looking at FLOPS or whatever.

 

[Troll]

This thread makes it easy to tell which side of the fence people are on.

Absolutely.

 

[gamemadmax]

... That was not a response to what I said.

You prove it. It has not been proven.

you will need to play ps3 games then

 

[fastford58]

Sure, cherry pick Alan Wake, because that's clearly not even among the best looking Xbox games, but Halo 4, Forza Horizon, and Gears 3 come very close to Sony's top exclusives.

They might not be entirely on par, but anyone who says Sony's titles "shit on them," as one poster did, is not making an objective comparison. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Even if you don't agree with the wording of the examples, it still does not change the original point. Alan Wake was such an egregious example that it had to be called out.

I played Halo 4. It looked great. But it didn't make me say wow like some of the PS3 exclusives have. I'm actually sad that I have only just started paying attention to PS3 in the last couple of months.

 

[shinobi602]

You're championing that part of his post? That's the most bullish and worse part of it.

He's just as guilty for flinging dirt. Mind you, I haven't seen this type of talk hardly from Sony or Nintendo other than a small jab about MSFT's flip flops. The latter half of the post reads like a disillusion fan. And we've had others bring up some of his past posts. It's not all sunshine and roses so I would hope you'd see not just what you want to see.

Uhh, the only reason there is this kind of talk from him and MS in general is due to the fire they keep getting from here and other places. It is in response.

 

[derFeef]

This thread makes it easy to tell which side of the fence people are on.

Albert is on Sony's side!

 

[MCD]

Albert is on Sony's side!

Sent by Agent Harrison.

 

[nib95]

I'm glad to see Sessler didn't do a fluff interview. He did ask some serious questions.

Albert isn't being totally honest when he says "we looked at what Steam was doing". No, you didn't. Steam does not have a 24 hour DRM check. That was the single biggest reason people got upset about your plans.

I also don't think Albert is being totally honest when he says things like "people got it in their heads we were being anti consumer, etc". You created the 24 hour check in, and we've already seen examples of how digital games can be handled without such arbitrary controls being put in place, so that leaves us one conclusion. Microsoft wanted total control, and that was what the consumers rejected. A power grab with minor upside for the customer.

The same story with Kinect. You've got some cute and small improvements for UI related stuff, controller recognition, etc. And THAT justifies an extra $100 cost? No, and frankly it only leads me to believe there are bigger reasons Microsoft wants that device included and plugged in at ALL times, because we clearly see no real gaming related reasons for it, and the UI stuff is minor. I won't use the word "evil" regarding your intentions, but there is clearly more to this than "we think the UI experience is so much better we want to make our console $100 more expensive than the competition". Data gathering/marketing purposes clearly played a part in the entire Kinect decision.

Good post and some poignant points.

 

[Pug]

Problem with Albert posting his personal opinions, besides the fact that some perceive it as PR is posters are tearing each paragraph, sentence then verbs to pieces looking for arguments for arguments sake.

 

[TheBioLover]

Christ, I don't know what's more embarrassing, Albert's post, or the MS cheerleaders in this thread.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

So a 40% more powerful means almost nothing so why did your company bother with a 9% CPU boost and trumpeted that in your Press Release? I thought you don't want to be associated with the PR team and yet here again you are sprouting some nonsense PR .

I think what he says about most gamers not being able to tell a difference between both consoles right now graphically is pretty accurate, at least for the general mainstream gaming population ( we not part of that group).

Can anyone show launch titles on either system that is head and shoulders above the others?? I really can't think of any.

Sony's advantage in raw gpu power I don't think will manifest itself in launch titles so what he is saying is somewhat accurate from what we have seen so far.

I just don't think comparing Xbox 360 vs PS3 scenario is accurate bc if the wild differences in architecture. These new consoles are so similar in that respect that the power comparisons at least make way more sense and may be noticable some day.

 

[SEGAvangelist]

Thank you, NeoGAF, for delivering quality entertainment that rivals the actual playing of games.

 

[tfur]

More PR, still no promised charts and answered questions.

Not liking the "we CREATED" notion, as it really ignores the real people that created the 3D technology. I assume Albert was not around during the SGI/MS cooperation for 3D technology to try to create a 3D standard that was part of the Fahrenheit project.

Microsoft owes SGI for much of the technology that created Direct3D and subsequently DirectX. Up until DirectX9, everything was copied from OpenGL. Not to mention some of the main players behind DirectX, no longer work at Microsoft.

Poor form Albert.

Not really going to comment on the performance thing, as I believe it really is a known quantity. You have to use computational throughput, memory throughput, and architecture to come up with numbers. There really is no voodoo or special sauce as is being portrayed here, sorry.

 

[GavinGT]

I agree, but I don't think they know much more than what's already available on the web.

He has intimate knowledge of Xbox One's architecture at his disposal, and probably also has the best knowledge of PS4's architecture outside of Sony themselves.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Uhh, the only reason there is this kind of talk from him and MS in general is due to the fire they keep getting from here and other places. It is in response.

I can read and see that clearly. I don't agree with everything he said in those interviews and then he drops his post here which further caused a stir.

 

[Smokey]

We're not dumb, Albert. We can look at the GPU specs and understand what they mean, even if you guys can't.

You might be able to fool people like Digital Foundry into thinking that having DMEs and ESRAM that exist only to address the fundamentally limited bandwidth inherent to your DDR3 system are actually better than having a console with 8 GB of GDDR5 RAM that doesn't need them, but not everyone is going to be that gullible.

you really gonna sit here and say that MS engineers have no idea what GPU specs mean or what they are doing? lol cmon son

 

[BigDug13]

You just pointed out that there are other things besides just "raw specs" that play a role in how a product performs...which is the entire point I was making. So cool, we agree!

Actually no, based on the example I provided, if they put the latest Galaxy with latest OS and latest iPhone with latest OS aside and asked a multiplatform developer to create a game that only has to work on both of these phones and they can disregard the rest, I guarantee that if the architecture were similar (like the case with the XBO/PS4), the stronger spec'd phone would most definitely have the best looking and performing game.

 

[Freki]

Christ, I don't know what's more embarrassing, Albert's post, or the MS cheerleaders in this thread.

Well one gets paid - the others mostly not... so I'd say the choice is clear...

 

[Mihael Mello Keehl]

Christ, I don't know what's more embarrassing, Albert's post, or the MS cheerleaders in this thread.

You forgot the other cheerleaders too. Its all miserable.

 

[Curufinwe]

Why does this thread have so many hits and growing? Oh it's an XB1 thread. =/

Actually, it's growing now because a representative of Microsoft went on a rant about how unfathomable it is to imagine that the PS4 would have a 30% power advantage, then admitted that he has many, many questions about what Sony's doing technically.

 

[malfcn]

Why did this thread have to blow up while I'm at work, can't follow it!

 

[IN&OUT]

Albert is on Sony's side!

Yep, he just admitted that PS4 is more powerful.

 

[Satchel]

Good post and some poignant points.

Um no they're not.

Steam didn't always have an offline mode. Steam is digital only. Microsoft had to take discs into consideration.

 

[Derrick01]

you really gonna sit here and say that MS engineers have no idea what GPU specs mean or what they are doing? lol cmon son

Yeah they get it but at the same time trying to fool a dedicated gaming forum that's full of the kinds of people who can and will spot and understand the differences is a foolish maneuver.

 

[statham]

Well one gets paid - the others mostly not... so I'd say the choice is clear...

How much does Sony pay? I'm willing to switch for $$$

 

[LiquidMetal14]

He has intimate knowledge of Xbox One's architecture at his disposal, and probably also has the best knowledge of PS4's architecture outside of Sony themselves.

I don't think so. We have enough numbers. He touts the magic of the MSFT engineers and dances around with wording discrediting the known HW advantage PS4 has. Is that damage control or PR spin? I don't know else to look at it when there's some interception of the facts there.