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[dmg04]

It's graphics, and also performance. I'm pretty sure the PS3 versions of most of the COD games ran at lower frame rates and/or resolutions.

I think it was more their online capability as well. The only stories I ever heard from the PS3 clans were lag, lag, lag, glitches, lag, and lag :\

Oh... and a "horrible" controller

 

[kevm3]

My almost 2 year old 6950 is 2.25 TF with all that jazz. Oh wait, I have two of them. How is Sony going to narrow that?

Or in other words, those numbers really mean nothing. Unless you think the PS4 (and therefore the X1) are going to be 60% slower then my 2 year old PC? I don't think it will be 60% slower, but I don't think they'll beat it either...maybe parity. Maybe.

Actually they do mean something. Does your 6950 perform the same as a higher end card in that line, or will you get more FPS by choosing a more powerful card? Does a 7950 and a 7970 perform exactly the same?

 

[Derrick01]

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

We're still looking for that secret sauce that's going to magically overcome hard numbers eh?

 

[Zephyx]

I
The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

Let's wait for the actual release of games before we decide on that.

 

[beast786]

It sounds like someone not working for Sony is overly invested in boxes that they do not own yet.. At least Albert works for a company that makes one of these boxes, and still he isn't rude as you guys, so what the hell are your excuses?

Or I find it offended when someone assumes I am a fool. But, If you want, I can yank his dick to make you happy.

He is a PR. That is his job. And I am a consumer when see a BS thrown at me to respond to it.

 

[Barzul]

Albert I guess the question to ask now, is that is there anything about the Xbox One's hardware that has yet to be revealed? Going off the specs that we have available, the performance advantage is in the favor of the PS4. I'm a big fan of the Xbox software and OS features, but I think the performance delta is not as big as some people think, but the advantage is still significant.

 

[artist]

Albert was doing so good (for MS) until this thread ..

 

[Freki]

Some of the responses to Alberts posts are flat out childish and fucking embarrassing. Grow up.

Stating "we have the bestest engineers in the world - everything will be fine" just doesn't cut it for some people for some reason...

 

[lastflowers]

The other 10% is behind the paywall.

:lol

 

[MCD]

This is the point ElTorro made and where Albert's point and argument falls flat on it's face. It basically boils down to this.

We have the same car, ours has a 1300bhp engine, yours has a 1840bhp engine, ours has unique tweaks and modifications that you don't know about, yours has unique tweaks and modifications that we don't know about...

Therefore the performance is a wash and pretty much equal.

Lol. It does not make any sense.

Albert is just saying that their bet on ESRAM will pay off just like they bet on EDRAM.

And that's it. For more information, please talk to Todd Holmdahl.

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

Fair enough. Then what's in the secret sauce that's narrowing this gap?

XB1
GPU: 1.31 Teraflops
16 ROPs
12 compute units

PS4
GPU: 1.84 Teraflops
32 ROPs
18 compute units

Ground Unicorn Penis in the ESRAM.

 

[nib95]

I knew that Sony PR would be coming from you once Albert posted! You do great work Wollan

I posted a well reasoned response to Albert, can you afford me the same? Instead of calling me PR (which is ironic since Albert is actually PR), can you at least respond to the parts of my post you think are wrong, misleading or disagreeable?

 

[see5harp]

To clarify...

1. Every generation Microsoft claims the same, except this one where the lines are blurred because you can't, so instead you guys have gone around the bush way of dealing with it, by misinforming or fluffing with cloud figures ranging from 40x the performance and discussing transistor counts (5 billion!) instead of actual specs, like the former even matters. That and eluding to things that you've neither explained nor can be proven.

2. The PS3 was not strictly more powerful than the 360. The 360 had the better GPU (which Microsoft themselves championed), the PS3 the far better CPU. The 360 also enjoyed unified ram and more ram at that. The situation is not at all the same this time around. The PS4 has better raw performance, unified ram and more ram bandwidth (with respect to the main bulk of DDR3 vs GDDR5). According to some developers it also has more mature dev tools and better customisations. Then there's the OS footprint, which this time around is purported to be smaller on the PS4.

3. You talk about DirectX and API's, but you have to realise, low level coding and working beyond the constraints of said API's is what has given Sony the ability to lead the charge on graphics and tech with first party games this generation. With the PS3 notably, where despite the GPU deficit, the most technically and graphically proficient games were on the PS3. And where on the PS2, despite a massive hardware disadvantage to the Xbox, the PS2 still had games that could compete (such as GOW2, GT4 etc).

In other words, sometimes such API's actually hold developers back instead of the opposite, which thankfully Microsoft is somewhat understanding this time around which is why you're allowing lower level access on the Xbox One.

In other words, I don't know if the Direct X API thing is one that effectively champions your point.

It's very easy to state such things and change the script 8 years after launch.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

Sure, cherry pick Alan Wake, because that's clearly not even among the best looking Xbox games, but Halo 4, Forza Horizon, and Gears 3 come very close to Sony's top exclusives.

They might not be entirely on par, but anyone who says Sony's titles "shit on them," as one poster did, is not making an objective comparison. It's absolutely ridiculous.

Halo 4 and Gear 3 beat anything on PS3 in my subjective opinion.

 

[maabus1999]

This is the point ElTorro made and where Albert's point and argument falls flat on it's face. It basically boils down to this.

We have the same car, ours has a 1310bhp engine, yours has a 1840bhp engine, ours has unique tweaks and modifications that you don't know about, yours has unique tweaks and modifications that we don't know about...

Therefore the performance is a wash and pretty much equal.

Lol. It does not make any sense.

IF all roads were drag strips, that would make sense.

 

[RedNumberFive]

We're still looking for that secret sauce that's going to magically overcome hard numbers eh?

It's a mixture of fairy dust and left over Microsoft points.

 

[RedRooster]

you new to gaf? lol. SOMEONE WILL ALWAYS s give a shit THINGS RESURFACE...the crow...

Haha, I am. I'm just imagining everyone having elaborate spreadsheets, must be hell to administer every day!

 

[squidyj]

All I seem to keep hearing from Penello is "trust me"

"I can't tell you how we're closing this gap but we're closing this gap, trust me"
"the difference isn't what you think it is, trust me"
"Sony is doing things with their console that's going to bring it more in line with ours, trust me"
"We have the best programmers, they'll fix this, trust me"

The problem is, without remarking on Albert Penello as a gamer or an individual, I see no reason to trust the man when he's making these claims. If he's not willing to get into specifics, and to be honest I don't think it's reasonable to expect him to, then I'm not sure why I should trust his proclamations, particularly when they are privileging the console he's working on and minimizing the benefits of his competition.

 

[GavinGT]

That doesn't make him more credible to talk about the differences between the two consoles, he knows more about the Xbox one, but nothing says he would be more informed on the details of Sony's hardware.

He admits there are plenty of things he doesn't know about PS4's architecture. But he has an army of intelligent engineers working under him who can provide him with educated guesses as to the missing pieces. I'm sure he's sat in on dozens of meetings where these engineers have gone over the potential power differences and what those would mean for the end user.

 

[Verendus]

I think of the Xbox One like a DBZ character. Yes, analogy time, and no I'm not using a terrible car analogy. I'm using an amazingly fresh, and innovative, DBZ analogy.

Xbox One is like Vegeta on Namek. It's not his first dance out amongst the stars, and he's learnt a few new tricks. He's up against some stiff competition like Zarbon, Krillin, and Yamcha. Now some people, like Zarbon, use their scouter and think Vegeta is weak. But what you see on the surface is not all. Instead, Vegeta can hide his true power level and only reveal it when it's necessary. This then takes everyone, the gaming world in this case, by surprise when he starts pumping out stronger energy beams than they expected.

So, Xbox One is like Vegeta.

Sure Vegeta also ends up meeting Frieza in the same story arc, is beaten to within an inch of his life, and then cries himself to death like a true pussy, but that's another story.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Some of the responses to Alberts posts are flat out childish and fucking embarrassing. Grow up.

I hope you're noticing both sides. You can't champion everything he says because there is some rather bullish PR like drivel coming from the horses mouth as well.

 

[Joeki11a]

Those last two paragraphs by Albert are kinda telling though. MS talked about the same things before the 360 launched but now that PS4 is clearly more powerful on paper its a different message this time. He's admitting the PS4 is more powerful, and just downplaying the amount.

Didnt MS admit they aimed for less power? Focus more on multi tasking stuff XB1 has like Running 3 OS and DVR live tv stuff?

 

[Derrick01]

It's a mixture of fairy dust and left over Microsoft points.

Maybe the Xbox GPU is just taking HGH? It is undetectable after all, they could easily get away with it.

 

[avaya]

Also claiming to not being paid by MSFT for posting on GAF is comic.

If you identify yourself as an employee of MSFT or any company, you are representing their views when posting on a public forum. So honestly Penello, cut the crap.

 

[Wynnebeck]

Albert was doing so good (for MS) until this thread ..

His response was perfectly fine until the last three paragraphs where it devolved into a almost fanboyish rant calling out Sony and the PS3.

 

[Shads]

I thought it was a sincere interview and Albert responded to the questions very well and most importantly, it was comprehensible. And it's not like Albert was even badmouthing Sony either, so I always appreciate when there are some signs of respect when talking about competition. I don't see anything wrong with what Microsoft is trying to do and certainly Sony is doing all the right, yet safe, moves. In the end, they both look like damn good systems worthy for next gen in my eyes, but leave it to GAF for everything is a conspiracy.

 

[benny_a]

I posted a well reasoned response to Albert, can you afford me the same? Instead of calling me PR (which is ironic since Albert is actually PR), can you at least respond to the parts of my post you think are wrong, misleading or disagreeable?

According to his posts on here Albert is not PR. He works under Whitten.

 

[twobear]

You're comparing a difference between two systems with a very different architecture, one of them having a split memory pool, and a poor development environment, where most mp games lead on 360, but that still it ended up with the much better looking games (and it's not just 3) to what we have now, which is similar architecture, only one has better ram and better gpu and a a friendly development environment.

Yes, none of that disagrees with what I said, but thanks.

 

[Steve McQueen]

What I'm wondering about.... Will devs of cross-platform actually take advantage of the most powerful console? Or will the console with less power actually hold back the more powerful console?

 

[Toki767]

I think of the Xbox One like a DBZ character. Yes, analogy time, and no I'm not using a terrible car analogy. I'm using an amazingly fresh, and innovative, DBZ analogy.

Xbox One is like Vegeta on Namek. It's not his first dance out amongst the stars, and he's learnt a few new tricks. He's up against some stiff competition like Zarbon, Krillin, and Yamcha. Now some people, like Zarbon, use their scouter and think Vegeta is weak. But what you see on the surface is not all. Instead, Vegeta can hide his true power level and only reveal it when it's necessary. This then takes everyone, the gaming world in this case, by surprise when he starts pumping out stronger energy beams than they expected.

So, Xbox One is like Vegeta.

Sure Vegeta also ends up meeting Frieza in the same story arc, is beaten to within an inch of his life, and then cries himself to death like a true pussy, but that's another story.

So is the PS4 Goku or Frieza?

 

[soul creator]

I think the general point he's trying to communicate is something like what happened with cell phones. There was a time period when iPhones, and even Windows Phones (which, according to raw specs, were worse than Android phones) felt faster and more responsive than Android phones, and this was routinely called out in reviews of the actual released products.

Of course, this didn't necessarily mean "Android phones are shit! iPhone 4 life!" or anything like that, but only that looking at specs solely on their own isn't always the best indicator of how released products will perform when in front of an end user.

Of course, it could very well turn out to be true that Xbox One is shit, and PS4 4 life all day err day...but that'll be known when games are actually released over the next few years, (and when developers can actually talk more freely about them) not from just looking at a spec list by itself.

 

[Marleyman]

He didn't make a mistake by posting what he did; I am pleased to see one of the two talking about things instead of letting random posters talk for them.

 

[MCD]

Also claiming to not being paid by MSFT for posting on GAF is comic.

If you identify yourself as an employee of MSFT or any company, you are representing their views when posting on a public forum. So honestly Penello, cut the crap.

Not really.

You see a lot of "these views are mine and don't reflect my company" etc. on twitter and the like.

Way to make it a big deal.

 

[Satchel]

Stating "we have the bestest engineers in the world - everything will be fine" just doesn't cut it for some people for some reason...

It doesn't need to cut it. If you guys don't want to agree with what he's saying, there's no issue with that. But as I said, some of the responses are literally schoolyard 10 year old kid shit.

A simple "lets agree to disagree" would suffice in most cases. Especially give we're meant to be adults here. That's fine, Albert represents Microsoft and Microsoft isn't a company GAF looks well upon right now, but we should be responding in a manner that encourages him to stay and continue to post, not in a way that makes him wonder why the fuck he joined in the first place (this isn't directed at you, I haven't read ALL the replies).

 

[Joeki11a]

Maybe the Xbox GPU is just taking HGH? It is undetectable after all, they could easily get away with it.

http://www.gamechup.com/war-thunder-dev-ps4-gpu-is-40-more-powerful-than-xbox-one-gpu/


War Thunder dev: PS4 GPU is 40% more powerful than Xbox One GPU

Anton Yudintsev told Edge in an interview that “obviously PlayStation 4 is more powerful than Xbox One,” and gave some details on how much the difference is.

“It depends what you’re doing. GPU, like 40 per cent more powerful. DDR5 is basically 50 per cent more powerful than DDR3, but the memory write is bigger on Xbox One so it depends on what you’re doing.”

 

[derFeef]

His response was perfectly fine until the last three paragraphs where it devolved into a almost fanboyish rant calling out Sony and the PS3.

I am not reading this like you I guess. Mind you I know he works for MS and tries to be honest as much he can while still keeping positive on theirp roduct.

 

[maabus1999]

Actually they do mean something. Does your 6950 perform the same as a higher end card in that line, or will you get more FPS by choosing a more powerful card? Does a 7950 and a 7970 perform exactly the same?

When one of my cards went to MSI for an RMA< they wanted to replace it with a 7000 series, think it was 7800 series or something. So while new generations have new architectures, sometimes they are more modest/power saving, like the 7.

Asked them the difference, and said not really noticeable. Maybe a little boost. Then I said I was SLIing the cards, and then they decided to wait another week and actually find a 6000 series card so I wouldn't have to buy another card.

 

[GavinGT]

I think of the Xbox One like a DBZ character. Yes, analogy time, and no I'm not using a terrible car analogy. I'm using an amazingly fresh, and innovative, DBZ analogy.

Xbox One is like Vegeta on Namek. It's not his first dance out amongst the stars, and he's learnt a few new tricks. He's up against some stiff competition like Zarbon, Krillin, and Yamcha. Now some people, like Zarbon, use their scouter and think Vegeta is weak. But what you see on the surface is not all. Instead, Vegeta can hide his true power level and only reveal it when it's necessary. This then takes everyone, the gaming world in this case, by surprise when he starts pumping out stronger energy beams than they expected.

So, Xbox One is like Vegeta.

Sure Vegeta also ends up meeting Frieza in the same story arc, is beaten to within an inch of his life, and then cries himself to death like a true pussy, but that's another story.

Please don't derail another thread with this nonsense.

 

[Beer Monkey]

DRM will no doubt return, its their vision, MS have just managed to dupe people so far or those pre-ordering are happy with DRM

Yep, I'm sure within one year they will announce no more discs and if you don't let it connect to the net once ever 30 seconds the system degrades into a Ouya. Also you must stand nude in front of Kinect once a day to update the NSA genitalia-recognition database.

 

[Fresh Face]

His response was perfectly fine until the last three paragraphs where it devolved into a almost fanboyish rant calling out Sony and the PS3.

All he's saying is that MS isn't the devil and that Sony isn't god.

Sony isn't going to say anything against themselves either.

Are any of you noticing the other aspects such as efficiency and tools quality that could play a huge role in how the numbers add up?

There really is more to this then your "cold, hard" numbers.

 

[Andronicus]

Maybe the Xbox GPU is just taking HGH? It is undetectable after all, they could easily get away with it.

HGH is detectable...

 

[avaya]

Not really.

You see a lot of "these views are mine and don't reflect my company" etc. on twitter and the like.

Way to make it a big deal.

The firms don't treat it like that. That is not a binding disclaimer.

 

[admartian]

I'm glad to see Sessler didn't do a fluff interview. He did ask some serious questions.

Albert isn't being totally honest when he says "we looked at what Steam was doing". No, you didn't. Steam does not have a 24 hour DRM check. That was the single biggest reason people got upset about your plans.

I also don't think Albert is being totally honest when he says things like "people got it in their heads we were being anti consumer, etc". You created the 24 hour check in, and we've already seen examples of how digital games can be handled without such arbitrary controls being put in place, so that leaves us one conclusion. Microsoft wanted total control, and that was what the consumers rejected. A power grab with minor upside for the customer.

The same story with Kinect. You've got some cute and small improvements for UI related stuff, controller recognition, etc. And THAT justifies an extra $100 cost? No, and frankly it only leads me to believe there are bigger reasons Microsoft wants that device included and plugged in at ALL times, because we clearly see no real gaming related reasons for it, and the UI stuff is minor. I won't use the word "evil" regarding your intentions, but there is clearly more to this than "we think the UI experience is so much better we want to make our console $100 more expensive than the competition". Data gathering/marketing purposes clearly played a part in the entire Kinect decision.

I agree with this.,

I respect Albert taking his time out posting here (whether it's to try and stem the opinions of gamers or not) and all, but when they try and palm off the concerns as not being their fault (either through intent, just plain dumb fucking communication, or both), it really does sound rather condescending and dismissive.

Plus all that "family sharing is teh awesome we will allow 10 people to all pitch in and buy the same game, share, and play it all at the same time!!!" fantasy is wishful thinking from Xbox fans, and a bit concerning regarding the return of online checkins etc.

 

[waypoetic]

Sessler is all xbox all the time still wow

Yup. He denies it though. He got all salty on twitter when i questioned his unbiased "stance".

 

[kevm3]

You're not going to see some huge, half-generational difference in multiplatforms, but you will probably see something along the lines of 360 and PS3 titles.

 

[Derrick01]

HGH is detectable...

Someone should tell the pro sports leagues then!

 

[LiquidMetal14]

He didn't make a mistake by posting what he did; I am pleased to see one of the two talking about things instead of letting random posters talk for them.

We know a lot about the PS4. Albert should have kept his mouth shut when it comes to talking about his direct competition. We've had transparency for months from MSFT. I hope you can at least admit that.

 

[Hockeymac18]

I'm not assuming anyone is dumb. Not at all. I can understand based on what has been disclosed, why people are arriving at that conclusion.

I'm stating that not everyone knows all the facts. There are still a lot of important details about the platforms that are still unknown. I have many, many questions about what Sony is doing technically.

The question I posed earlier, and the statements I'm making now, will come out when we see the actual shipping boxes.

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

Albert: thanks for taking the time to respond here. The ridicule, I'm sure, is probably hard to handle at times. But we appreciate the fact that you come into the "belly of the beast" to take on the hard questions and/or elaborate with more detail on points that have previously been made.

And I especially liked your interview. Although you say you don't like giving them, I would really like to see you out there more. You've by far been one of the best spokesperson for the Xbox brand as of late. Your passion for games reminds me of the passion that originally drew me to the original Xbox (after my beloved Dreamcast had been abandoned...) and then to the Xbox 360. It seems the Xbox team has lost some of this passion (at least, as far as the leaders go...). So, please do more interviews.

I know you work for MS, and we should always take what you say with a grain of salt (as we should anyone who works for a company posting here), but it is pretty clear to me that you want to be here and that gaming is a true love of yours. We (I'd say the majority of us) do really appreciate you coming here, so we hope that continues.


On topic regarding this comment (specifically the bolded part of your comment):

This tech discussion is a bit hard to understand because it does appear on paper that there is a difference. However, I've read about co-processors helping "off load" some tasks that are normally done by the CPU/GPU. Is this what you mean by "There are still a lot of important details about the platforms that are still unknown"? Or is there more to it than that? When will the final/complete specs be revealed?

I bet you can't comment on a lot of that with specifics...but it would be nice to at least see some theory on how the Xbox One can bridge the gap that appears to be ~40% on paper.

 

[ACH1LL3US]

Everyone please save this post. This is going to be one hell of a ride lmaooo

Why??? in some respects he is right about the past. We just don't know if the past is indicative of future results in this case because the hardware is so similar and one has clearly more raw gpu power.


I would say launch games will be similar on both, the exclusive Sony games will probably be some the better looking games graphic wise this next gen if the past gen is any indication.

Meh, either way I getting both on day one so it doesn't matter to me :/

 

[squidyj]

Yep, I'm sure within one year they will announce no more discs and if you don't let it connect to the net once ever 30 seconds the system degrades into a Ouya. Also you must stand nude in front of Kinect once a day to update the NSA genitalia-recognition database.

I wonder who has the best genitals in America....