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[benny_a]

To be fair John Carmack said both will be identical.

Actual quote is "very close" and "they're both very good."
He said he hasn't done any benchmarking so he isn't able to a straight-up comparison between the two.

 

[Andronicus]

I get a ton of hate for saying this – but it’s been the same EVERY generation. Sony claims more power, they did it with Cell, they did it with Emotion Engine, and they are doing it again. And, in the end, games on our system looked the same or better.

I’m not saying they haven’t built a good system – I’m merely saying that anyone who wants to die on their sword over this 30%+ power advantage are going to be fighting an uphill battle over the next 10 years…

Everyone please save this post. This is going to be one hell of a ride lmaooo

 

[GavinGT]

Can't we just wait the 2 1/2 months and avoid calling him a liar in the meantime? He clearly has more intimate knowledge of the situation than we do.

I'm just glad Albert's got thick skin. I wouldn't want to put up with you jerks.

 

[Lord Error]

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

What you do in the 2nd sentence is kind of already dismiss the raw performance, and by claiming that some unknown things about your architecture are positive and yet unknown things about ps4's architecture are seemingly only negative, you evoke the "secret sauce" rhetoric. I'm curious what the multiplatform engines will do on each, in terms of differences, but more just if they'll be 'good enough' on either machine, because so far things have been little underwhelming for the most part.

 

[Chobel]

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

Quite a bold statement there. Unless you have something that's add 500/400 Gflops in your GPU then it's technically impossible to assure this.

 

[Freshmaker]

The most obvious point is that anyone looking at games on both platforms do not see ANY difference, let alone this alleged 30% - 40%. Both systems are powerful. Both are capable of next-gen graphics. I'm merely saying the application of that performance will mean the actual difference will not be that great.

Actual difference will mainly be apparent in multi platform releases.

Screenshot wars between first party titles will always be meaningless.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Actual quote is "very close" and "they're both very good."

There we go, then how come some are saying it's drastic?

 

[iamshadowlark]

I will give Penello some credit for his bravado. Even though its not that consistent with his companies actions. They unveiled the console with the rhetoric that power isn't that important, that they "purposefully didn't target highest graphics", etc . Every since then we have seen backpedals. Such as them publicizing their new light-weight API, minor clock changes to the GPU and now the CPU, the new "this is Microsoft" stuff Albert is spouting. ETC. Its not consistent . And minor moves like those come off more like grasping at the pretty straws you see the competitor holding than anything else. .

What exactly is the message for this product? I haven't got that in the 3 or 4 months that we've been hearing about it.

 

[Freki]

Honest question, if you yourself don't know the details about Sony's system architecture, how can you be so sure that the details of both system architectures will balance the real-world performance, when the raw numbers show a non-trivial delta?

Comparing multiplatform launch games that are still in development does not seem like the most reliable metric here.

on the point as always...

 

[la flama blanca]

There we go, then how come some are saying it's drastic?

Because we are looking at actual specs? Are you blind or something?

 

[base shagohod]

I honestly don't get posts like this. So Cerny and friends are just full of shit? Albert who isn't even on the HW team says numbers are nothing. So therefore it's true?

Why should i believe Albert over Cerny?

Yep, he said numbers are nothing. Straight up. No exaggeration.

 

[dmg04]

It's funny how we all keep bickering about graphics, yet the most played game of last generation was Call of Duty, by far. Was that game amazing to look at? No. It was nice to look at...

What console was represented most by this title? Xbox.

Whoever lands the first "Must Have" title that gives potential for sequels, addictive online play... They won't win per say, but they'll have their foot in the door of potential future console buyers.

Hell, I wonder how many consoles Halo 3, Cod (MW 2, 3, Blops 1, 2) sold just with their multiplayer aspects.

I'd better put my foot in my mouth, though. I'm more than likely going to be #DEADWRONG. Indie games are on the uphill, but how many joe schmoes really care to search for the gold? The indie genre is going to be absolutely flooded with titles that nobody has heard about, which is intimidating to those who just want to plug and play. Bummer, right?

 

[MCD]

If you think the PS4 is touching high-end PC hardware, I have an island to sell you for a helluva deal.

I don't. It doesn't have three OSs to start with.

 

[Uno Venova]

Can't we just wait the 2 1/2 months and avoid calling him a liar in the meantime? He clearly has more intimate knowledge of the situation than we do.

That doesn't make him more credible to talk about the differences between the two consoles, he knows more about the Xbox one, but nothing says he would be more informed on the details of Sony's hardware.

 

[Curufinwe]

I don't get all these "LOL Albert, this is PR and Microsoft pays your bills" posts. Obviously he works for Microsoft, what do you expect? He comes in and tries to answer your concerns and defend his product, yet he is still ridiculed.

I don't think I've ever seen one of his posts ridiculed, not until he starting ranting about how there's no way they would give up a 30% power advantage to Sony. There's no reason, given what we already know about the hardware, to rule out that possibility.

It's funny how we all keep bickering about graphics, yet the most played game of last generation was Call of Duty, by far. Was that game amazing to look at? No. It was nice to look at...

What console was represented most by this title? Xbox.

It's graphics, and also performance. I'm pretty sure the PS3 versions of most of the COD games ran at lower frame rates and/or resolutions.

 

[derFeef]

Can't we just wait the 2 1/2 months and avoid calling him a liar in the meantime? He clearly has more intimate knowledge of the situation than we do.

Why, that would be smart :/
Also I think we need to wait at least 2 more years for exlusives to blow our socks off.

 

[benny_a]

There we go, then how come some are saying it's drastic?

Because in the context of the keynote he was talking about VR and how that is an actual differentiator.

We know the majority of the specs. There is no question how people come to the conclusion they do.
Any specific difference in the specs you want elaboration on?

 

[Verendus]

PS4 is like a SNES. Xbox One is like the PS2 in comparison.

 

[Syphon Filter]

Because we are looking at actual specs? Are you blind or something?

No but there is no difference. People said the difference will be noticeable right away.

 

[maabus1999]

Fair enough. Then what's in the secret sauce that's narrowing this gap?

XB1
GPU: 1.31 Teraflops
16 ROPs
12 compute units

PS4
GPU: 1.84 Teraflops
32 ROPs
18 compute units

My almost 2 year old 6950 is 2.25 TF with all that jazz. Oh wait, I have two of them. How is Sony going to narrow that?

Or in other words, those numbers really mean nothing. Unless you think the PS4 (and therefore the X1) are going to be 60% slower then my 2 year old PC? I don't think it will be 60% slower, but I don't think they'll beat it either...maybe parity. Maybe.

 

[Fresh Face]

why it is hard to accept ps3 1party games look better when it has been already proved
even the ms guy is in denial

... That was not a response to what I said.

You prove it. It has not been proven.

 

[Impeccable]

PS4 is like a SNES. Xbox One is like the PS2 in comparison.

Either way we're about to be drowning in epic jRPGs. Let's do this.

 

[RedRooster]

Everyone please save this post. This is going to be one hell of a ride lmaooo

Come on, in 4 months no one's gonna give a shit. We'll be too busy playing games.

 

[Toki767]

Performance: I’m not dismissing raw performance. I’m stating – as I have stated from the beginning – that the performance delta between the two platforms is not as great as the raw numbers lead the average consumer to believe. There are things about our system architecture not fully understood, and there are things about theirs as well, that bring the two systems into balance.

This part struck out at me as weird. When you consider from a raw performance standpoint that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One, and then you go on to say that system architecture on both consoles aren't fully understood yet, which is true, how does that then equate to everything will be pretty much the same in the end?

 

[R3TRODYCE]

This thread delivered the goods.

DAT salt.

 

[MCD]

Everyone please save this post. This is going to be one hell of a ride lmaooo

You fap to this, don't you?

 

[Zatoichi's Cane]

What in the world is wrong with you people? What do you gain out of using personal insults against guys that have done nothing but work for a company that makes a video game console?

Gets your heads checked.

darma much?

No one is "using personal insults," just pointing out that he comes across a little fake, which I would venture that most people would agree with me.

 

[Fresh Face]

Come on, in 4 months no one's gonna give a shit. We'll be too busy playing games.

I like you.

 

[Freki]

My almost 2 year old 6950 is 2.25 TF with all that jazz. Oh wait, I have two of them. How is Sony going to narrow that?

Or in other words, those numbers really mean nothing. Unless you think the PS4 (and therefore the X1) are going to be 60% slower then my 2 year old PC. Which I don't think. I don't think they'll beat it either...maybe parity. Maybe.

These numbers mean alot as they stem from the same architectures - it's an apple to apple comparison. That's what makes Albert comments so hard to swallow - especially compared to his modest ohter posts...

 

[Marleyman]

It's going to be quite sad when Second Son launches and for a long while there wouldn't be anything that holds a candle to it on the XBOX.

Both Infamous games have yet to shine considering their open world nature; just saying. I hope Second Son does well; it looks amazing and one of the reasons I will get a PS4 next year.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

No but there is no difference. People said the difference will be noticeable right away.

Who? I'm actually curious.

This thread delivered the goods.

DAT salt.

From who though? Have you read Albert's bullish remarks?

 

[benny_a]

This part struck out at me as weird. When you consider from a raw performance standpoint that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One, and then you go on to say that system architecture on both consoles aren't fully understood yet, which is true, how does that then equate to everything will be pretty much the same in the end?

There is something he isn't telling us.

Given the rumored specs for both systems, can anyone conceive of a circumstance or decision one platform holder could make, where despite the theoretical performance benchmarks of the components, the box that appears “weaker” could actually be more powerful?

I'm not saying it's aliens, but it's aliens.

 

[la flama blanca]

No but there is no difference. People said the difference will be noticeable right away.

Take a look at the first party titles offered on PS4 launch games and compare them to XBONE ones. Oh wait, you've already made ridiculous claims about how some Xbox 360 first party titles hold a candle to PS3 ones, so just forget it.

 

[Wizman23]

To clarify...

1. Every generation Microsoft claims the same, except this one where the lines are blurred because you can't, so instead you guys have gone around the bush way of dealing with it, by misinforming or fluffing with cloud figures ranging from 40x the performance and discussing transistor counts (5 billion!) instead of actual specs, like the former even matters. That and eluding to things that you've neither explained nor can be proven.

2. The PS3 was not strictly more powerful than the 360. The 360 had the better GPU (which Microsoft themselves championed), the PS3 the far better CPU. The 360 also enjoyed unified ram and more ram at that. The situation is not at all the same this time around. The PS4 has better raw performance, unified ram and more ram bandwidth (with respect to the main bulk of DDR3 vs GDDR5). According to some developers it also has more mature dev tools and better customisations. Then there's the OS footprint, which this time around is purported to be smaller on the PS4.

3. You talk about DirectX and API's, but you have to realise, low level coding and working beyond the constraints of said API's is what has given Sony the ability to lead the charge on graphics and tech with first party games this generation. With the PS3 notably, where despite the GPU deficit, the most technically and graphically proficient games were on the PS3. And where on the PS2, despite a massive hardware disadvantage to the Xbox, the PS2 still had games that could compete (such as GOW2, GT4 etc).

In other words, sometimes such API's actually hold developers back instead of the opposite, which thankfully Microsoft is somewhat understanding this time around which is why you're allowing lower level access on the Xbox One.

In other words, I don't know if the Direct X API thing is one that effectively champions your point.

I knew that Sony PR would be coming from you once Albert posted! You do great work Wollan

 

[base shagohod]

Either way we're about to be drowning in epic jRPGs. Let's do this.

Damn, this really bummed me out lol.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

This part struck out at me as weird. When you consider from a raw performance standpoint that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One, and then you go on to say that system architecture on both consoles aren't fully understood yet, which is true, how does that then equate to everything will be pretty much the same in the end?

40% more TFlops doesn't translate to 40% better looking/running games is what he's saying.

 

[Andronicus]

Come on, in 4 months no one's gonna give a shit. We'll be too busy playing games.

you new to gaf? lol. SOMEONE WILL ALWAYS s give a shit THINGS RESURFACE...the crow...

You fap to this, don't you?

If you make sure as shit statements they sometimes come back to bite you in the ass, sometimes they don't & that was a bold statement

 

[Fresh Face]

darma much?

No one is "using personal insults," just pointing out that he comes across a little fake, which I would venture that most people would agree with me.

You may want to reread the thread...

 

[Marleyman]

darma much?

No one is "using personal insults," just pointing out that he comes across a little fake, which I would venture that most people would agree with me.

Why would anyone agree with such a vague insult?

 

[Syphon Filter]

Take a look at the first party titles offered on PS4 launch games and compare them to XBONE ones. Oh wait, you've already made ridiculous claims about how some Xbox 360 first party titles hold a candle to PS3 ones, so just forget it.

How is it ridiculous if i think it looks comparable? It does. And for next gen there is no difference so far.

 

[Robot Pants]

I like that Albert is putting himself out there, hes one of the better spokesman they have.

Definitely. He needs to start being the face instead of the typical stooges MS pushes out.

 

[BadAss2961]

Penello made a huge mistake in letting GAF get to him. This never works out for people.

 

[Salvor.Hardin]

Quite a bold statement there. Unless you have something that's add 500/400 Gflops in your GPU then it's technically impossible to assure this.

I don't think he's trying assure anyone of anything. It sounds instead like he's heard back from third party devs and knows for certain that the people looking at both versions of the same game aren't seeing any differences.

 

[nib95]

This part struck out at me as weird. When you consider from a raw performance standpoint that the PS4 is more powerful than the Xbox One, and then you go on to say that system architecture on both consoles aren't fully understood yet, which is true, how does that then equate to everything will be pretty much the same in the end?

This is the point ElTorro made and where Albert's point and argument falls flat on it's face. It basically boils down to this.

We have the same car, ours has a 1310bhp engine, yours has a 1840bhp engine, ours has unique tweaks and modifications that you don't know about, yours has unique tweaks and modifications that we don't know about...

Therefore the performance is a wash and pretty much equal.

Lol. It does not make any sense.

 

[Toki767]

40% more TFlops doesn't translate to 40% better looking/running games is what he's saying.

It doesn't translate to virtually nothing either though, which is what he was implying.

 

[Metalmurphy]

I don't disagree, but it's three games. Out of the many hundreds of games released there are three (at least, less than ten) games that look like they feasibly might not be possible on 360, and the vast majority of multiplatforms look and run better on 360.

I think the general thrust of what he's saying holds up.

Of course, this situation is in no way extrapolatable to this generation.

You're comparing a difference between two systems with a very different architecture, one of them having a split memory pool, and a poor development environment, where most mp games lead on 360, but that still it ended up with the much better looking games (and it's not just 3) to what we have now, which is similar architecture, only one has better ram and better gpu and a a friendly development environment.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I knew that Sony PR would be coming from you once Albert posted! You do great work Wollan

Personal attacks like this do nothing for the conversation. I know who Wollan is and this isn't him.

 

[Satchel]

Some of the responses to Alberts posts are flat out childish and fucking embarrassing. Grow up.

 

[professor_t]

No. Just no. Alan Wake on the same level of GoW3 or KZ3? Not even close. Geez.

Sure, cherry pick Alan Wake, because that's clearly not even among the best looking Xbox games, but Halo 4, Forza Horizon, and Gears 3 come very close to Sony's top exclusives.

They might not be entirely on par, but anyone who says Sony's titles "shit on them," as one poster did, is not making an objective comparison. It's absolutely ridiculous.

 

[avaya]

Oh my.

The tears. Delicious.

What tears? Maybe you should see what the happened to the OTM puts recently. The manager who holds that position has a very nice return.