-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
MedicUnderFire
Neo Member
Saw it last night and it was an utter disappointment, it just knuckled down and took all the worst aspects of Prometheus and expanded on them. Just general thoughts are:
1. All the characters, are incredibly underwritten and have a habit of just saying "what there gonna do, who they are, why there doing thing", rather then actually having the film show you through there actions. Like how Christopher Oram (Billy Crudup) has to tell his own wife, he's a man of faith, but at no point in the film do we ever get that sense, other then that one line about how he saw the devil when he was a child.
2. All the characters, act stupid, (even more stupid then teenagers in a bloody slasher film), what is the justification for Oram even looking in the egg, when only 1 scene before he'd witness David try and defend the neomorphs that had killed Rosenthal, plus her behavior of going and "cleaning up her wounds", on her own, in a planet where they'd just been attacked.
3. The POV shots from the xenomorphs, fails in any way to build tensions and should never have been included, I don't want to see anything from the xenomorphs point of view, i don't want to understand how the creature works, that's what makes it scary, because I don't understand what its going to do next.
4. the whole action sequence on the cargo loader, with Daniels swinging about like spider man was terrible and doesn't belong in a alien film.
5. Having David be the main creator of the Xenomorphs, is just a terrible idea, and i hate it, its feels hollow and is handled so flippantly, as if its almost an after thought by the writers.
Easily the worst film of all of them.
1. All the characters, are incredibly underwritten and have a habit of just saying "what there gonna do, who they are, why there doing thing", rather then actually having the film show you through there actions. Like how Christopher Oram (Billy Crudup) has to tell his own wife, he's a man of faith, but at no point in the film do we ever get that sense, other then that one line about how he saw the devil when he was a child.
2. All the characters, act stupid, (even more stupid then teenagers in a bloody slasher film), what is the justification for Oram even looking in the egg, when only 1 scene before he'd witness David try and defend the neomorphs that had killed Rosenthal, plus her behavior of going and "cleaning up her wounds", on her own, in a planet where they'd just been attacked.
3. The POV shots from the xenomorphs, fails in any way to build tensions and should never have been included, I don't want to see anything from the xenomorphs point of view, i don't want to understand how the creature works, that's what makes it scary, because I don't understand what its going to do next.
4. the whole action sequence on the cargo loader, with Daniels swinging about like spider man was terrible and doesn't belong in a alien film.
5. Having David be the main creator of the Xenomorphs, is just a terrible idea, and i hate it, its feels hollow and is handled so flippantly, as if its almost an after thought by the writers.
Easily the worst film of all of them.
Typical of this movie and Ridley, everything happens in a rush, nothing is clearly shown or explained and like Swiss cheese this movie has so many plot holes it's unreal.
In my opinion Ridley has no idea what he's doing or where it's going. His task was to reveal the origins of the alien and connect directly to the original Alien story. He dropped the ball in making clear story telling and we are left with more questions and loads of continuity errors.
One thing that is so laughable because this is how it was portrayed in the movie: David takes black goo, Shaws body and in a muddy little cave managed to modify the black goo and human DNA to create the egg and face hugger...with zero lab equipment, special medical tools or computer technologies. Are we to believe he took a spoonful of goo, an eggcup of human blood, a dash of salt and poof, an egg and face hugger appears.
Please, what a load of crap. David should not of been a part of the xeno's origin at all, it should of been left that these engineers created the goo and somehow created the xeno, this is the story Ridley should of told.
I actually had a debate with my friend after the film about whether the shit David dropped on the Engineers turned any of them into aliens. My impression was that most of them were vaporized or turned into statues or whatever, but my friend was convinced that some aliens started popping up towards the end. Trying to recall the scene is a bit of a nightmare because it happens very fast, it gets very dark, and I can't really say that I'm 100% sure nothing every popped out of any of them. I don't think it did a good job of making anything clear so it's hard to blame anyone from taking it one way or another.
Especially given how this is the films official poster:
Especially given how this is the films official poster:
Your friend and I and few others here are not imagining things despite the bull-headedness of some posters here, hellbent on defending Ridley's so called ' consistency'. There were things that look like alien organism in that scene.
RBelong2Us
Member
Jeeeeesus...with the solid critic reviews I was hoping to get something that resembled some quality but these reviews have been just derailing any hype I have for this.
Though Prometheus for some insane reason has a higher RT than Interstellar so not shocking that this also received a decent score so far.
Though Prometheus for some insane reason has a higher RT than Interstellar so not shocking that this also received a decent score so far.
Adam Sadler
Member
Watching Prometheus and I'm currently dying at this slim Tom Hardy in the movie.
Robot Pants
Member
Oh he's the worst. Just wait til he gets sad and depressed out of NOWHERE.
tali'zorah84
Member
I believe he misspoke, it's gonna be a sequel that shows the journey to their target planet and what's there. But it'll also deal with David's history with Shaw and what became of her weird Giger art alien corpse I guess?
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the planet they're going to actually becomes LV-426, and David's fuckshit directly sets up the events of the original Alien film. I think there was probably a more complete story in the film that was tampered so the studio could draw out another film.
Tony Redgrave
Member
He's perfect for the part though, makes you wanna hate him so hard intentionally or not.
If so, it wouldn't surprise me if most of those colonists ended up being the eggs in the juggernaut through some egg-morphing stuff. It's really f*cked up and David was licking his lips all the movie thinking about all those 20.000 souls in cryo.
After two bad films which make it clear that Scott is the one obsessed with David, why would anyone give him the benefit of the doubt? The studio let him make the film he wanted. What he wanted blows.
tali'zorah84
Member
It was super dark in my theatre, I couldn't even really make out what happened. I know lots of them vomited black goo, once we get the bluray it might be worth it to see if any of them were actually vomiting up the Chestbursters?
FAKE EDIT:
Yeah, I get what you mean. I was really hoping Covenant gave me a reason to like David as a villain. Especially with this new idea that he essentially birthed the Xenomorph, I just don't give a fuck about him.
freefornow
Gold Member
Just came back from watching this. I thought the same thing. Something was starting to "form" and rise out of the bodies as they were breaking down/crystallising. It all happens so quick. In turn, it appeared that as whatever was forming out of the corpses was breaking down/crystallising just as quick as the host (engineers??).
Might have to wait until bluray release to see it more accurately.
tali'zorah84
Member
I think whatever was forming/crystallising was just the casts/husks around the Engineers. It looked like an homage to Pompeii.
Saw this last night and it was fucking awful. On the drive home chatting about the movie, my biggest take-out was that the movie didn't need to have any aliens in it and not much would have changed. It was a film about David, with aliens attacking people to fill time. That was the biggest disappointment for me - the alien creatures were completely pointless and the film would have been improved without them.
I have a high tolerance for 'shlock' movies. I actually really enjoy Alien Resurrection for what it was - I'm watching it right now actually. I thought Prometheus was 'dumb' but entertaining. Never really thought Alien 3 was worth my time until I watched the Assembly cut. But this movie - it's so offensively pointless, while trying so hard to make the previous movies worse.
Key outtakes that really stood with me:
- Stupid people doing stupid things. It's like they didn't learn anything about Prometheus. Rational people don't act fucking dumb, even in emergency situations. The crew of a ship in charge of 3-4000 lives all repeatedly break protocol and fuck up over and over in ways that would have prevented many of the conflicts, just like Prometheus. People got infected or killed by splitting up, exploring and investigating a deadly world without taking any precautions, etc. The whole time watching it (drive-in so you can chat) my other half and I were yelling at the screen "why are you doing that? don't do that!!" Smelling the spores that had black goo on a new planet? WTF? "We'll wait here and you pick us up on the way back." On a new fucking planet? On a 8km hike? WTF? "We have an alien on the ship and struggling to hold on. Should we fly into space and let it burn up in atmosphere? Nah - I'll go outside and fight it with an axe." WTF?
- The neomorphs were both super-threatening by killing within seconds of birth, and non-threatening because they were just dumb animals. Replace the neomorph with a rabid dog and you'd have the same level of threat, FFS.
- The xenomorph didn't have an opportunity to be a threat. It felt like it just popped out after the movie was supposed to have ended. I actually thought that either the movie had another hour left, of it was going to end before the alien got back on the Covenant. Squeezing into a five minute sprint to the credits just killed the point of these scenes being there at all - too rushed to make you feel anything like fear, hope, excitement at victory, etc.
- Per my opening paragraph - this whole movie would have been simpler and everyone would have been happier, heroes and villians alike - if David just jumped on the Covenant instead of being a generic super spooky evil robot. It made the whole movie feel like a waste of my time.
- Wasting the engineers like that... a 30 second flashback saying 'I killed them all cos I'm badass' after a 2 hour movie building them up, and a multi year wait to see their purpose, their society, etc.
- And Shaw dying offscreen. Why bother? Did they not even plan what was going to happen after cockteasing what should have been one movie in Prometheus?
No idea how they can salvage this. This is a blight on the Alien name... didn't think they'd make a movie worse than Prometheus after the blowback but there you go.
I have a high tolerance for 'shlock' movies. I actually really enjoy Alien Resurrection for what it was - I'm watching it right now actually. I thought Prometheus was 'dumb' but entertaining. Never really thought Alien 3 was worth my time until I watched the Assembly cut. But this movie - it's so offensively pointless, while trying so hard to make the previous movies worse.
Key outtakes that really stood with me:
- Stupid people doing stupid things. It's like they didn't learn anything about Prometheus. Rational people don't act fucking dumb, even in emergency situations. The crew of a ship in charge of 3-4000 lives all repeatedly break protocol and fuck up over and over in ways that would have prevented many of the conflicts, just like Prometheus. People got infected or killed by splitting up, exploring and investigating a deadly world without taking any precautions, etc. The whole time watching it (drive-in so you can chat) my other half and I were yelling at the screen "why are you doing that? don't do that!!" Smelling the spores that had black goo on a new planet? WTF? "We'll wait here and you pick us up on the way back." On a new fucking planet? On a 8km hike? WTF? "We have an alien on the ship and struggling to hold on. Should we fly into space and let it burn up in atmosphere? Nah - I'll go outside and fight it with an axe." WTF?
- The neomorphs were both super-threatening by killing within seconds of birth, and non-threatening because they were just dumb animals. Replace the neomorph with a rabid dog and you'd have the same level of threat, FFS.
- The xenomorph didn't have an opportunity to be a threat. It felt like it just popped out after the movie was supposed to have ended. I actually thought that either the movie had another hour left, of it was going to end before the alien got back on the Covenant. Squeezing into a five minute sprint to the credits just killed the point of these scenes being there at all - too rushed to make you feel anything like fear, hope, excitement at victory, etc.
- Per my opening paragraph - this whole movie would have been simpler and everyone would have been happier, heroes and villians alike - if David just jumped on the Covenant instead of being a generic super spooky evil robot. It made the whole movie feel like a waste of my time.
- Wasting the engineers like that... a 30 second flashback saying 'I killed them all cos I'm badass' after a 2 hour movie building them up, and a multi year wait to see their purpose, their society, etc.
- And Shaw dying offscreen. Why bother? Did they not even plan what was going to happen after cockteasing what should have been one movie in Prometheus?
No idea how they can salvage this. This is a blight on the Alien name... didn't think they'd make a movie worse than Prometheus after the blowback but there you go.
Did Scott talk up all the mystery of the Engineers, like he literally said the inspiration and motivation for Prometheus and returning to the Alien universe was to explore what the pilot was all about back in the very first Alien, just to completely change his mind once filming began. After Prometheus and Covenant it seems all of this is story of David more than it is about Shaw, xenomorphs, or the Engineers.
Tony Redgrave
Member
Thing is, most of this is inspired by the Alien: Engineers script by John Spaiths. In that David didn't design the Xenomorph (the Engineers did) but he was a mustache twirling villain who was dissapointed with humanity and wanted to destroy it using the Aliens.
Ridley kind of wanted to go off that path with Prometheus but after the lukewarm reception it seems like either him, Fox or both of them decided to go back to the Xeno, possibly to keep people hooked.
They seem to have kept some core concepts and gave David a lot of gravitas because he was the character people liked the most and Fassbender is the best actor of the cast but in the process they have discarded all the 'Ancient Aliens' elements Ridley originally wanted to explore.
The funny thing is, IMO it's not even about having the Xeno or not but about making a good movie, and by that I mean the script since Ridley is a wizard cinematographically speaking. They don't seem to be able to hire someone to write a good story and a believable script at all.
UberTag
Member
Did it put on a little hat and do a dance after its synchronized Randy Orton pose with David?
What's Neil Blomkamp doing anyhow now that Old Man Ridley booted him out and fucked the Alien franchise for good? Is he working on a sequel to Chappie?
Watched it last night and, contrary to popular opinion, kind of enjoyed it. The girlfriend really didn't want to watch it but ended up enjoying the jumps and scares.
Sure, the characters made dumb decisions, the aliens grew into fully fledged bastards in minutes and David being the creator of the Xenomorph was both stupid and poorly explained, but regardless I had fun and much preferred the film to Prometheus.
I do have to say I have no clue how David experimented with the Xenomorphs and eventually created the eggs. Surely it's something to do with that Shaw corpse (perhaps using her ovaries or something), but it's very vague and largely underwhelming. I'd have liked more clarity on that front.
Oh, and I personally felt like I saw creatures bursting out in the engineer apocalypse scene.
Understand the complaints but my expectations were never that high, so I enjoyed it. Thought the ending was really good although again it's fairly silly how in a split second David managed to both run back, change AND burn his arm off in just the right way. But whatever.
Sure, the characters made dumb decisions, the aliens grew into fully fledged bastards in minutes and David being the creator of the Xenomorph was both stupid and poorly explained, but regardless I had fun and much preferred the film to Prometheus.
I do have to say I have no clue how David experimented with the Xenomorphs and eventually created the eggs. Surely it's something to do with that Shaw corpse (perhaps using her ovaries or something), but it's very vague and largely underwhelming. I'd have liked more clarity on that front.
Oh, and I personally felt like I saw creatures bursting out in the engineer apocalypse scene.
Understand the complaints but my expectations were never that high, so I enjoyed it. Thought the ending was really good although again it's fairly silly how in a split second David managed to both run back, change AND burn his arm off in just the right way. But whatever.
Tony Redgrave
Member
I think he somehow took over Walter's body, I mean he's got the exact same scars, did have the hole under the chin and even the hair was slightly different, not to mention his voice was all f*cked up in that last fight scene.
I hope we'll have it explained in more detail down the line.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
Did it put on a little hat and do a dance after its synchronized Randy Orton pose with David?
What's Neil Blomkamp doing anyhow now that Old Man Ridley booted him out and fucked the Alien franchise for good? Is he working on a sequel to Chappie?
Didn't look like much he was doing a high end car commercial last I checked.
Which is bullshit as I thought district 9 was one of the best action sci fi movies in a long ass time with mild body horror.
Elysium wasn't bad but I guess chappie put him in movie jail for a while. Which again, is bullshit and he definitely should of done his version of aliens and ridley needs to fuck off to the same ranch they put Lucas out to pasture.
But I enjoy the aesthetic and non sanitised approach Blomkamp implements. I reckon he would of made a good blade runner too.
Scarecrow
Member
I'd love a prequel that could maybe redeem the wretched 30 second flashback of David killing the Engineers. But knowing that this movie is what comes next, it's less appealing.
I'm part of the problem. I'll be there day one for each installment, just to see what they do to the series. At least Scott has a good knack for visuals. His movies remain pretty to look at.
I'm part of the problem. I'll be there day one for each installment, just to see what they do to the series. At least Scott has a good knack for visuals. His movies remain pretty to look at.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
The crew landing in a completely new planet with no helmet on as a precaution is one of the dumbest things ever. Goddamn that was so incredibly stupid.
UberTag
Member
I spoiled myself on this movie explicitly so I would NOT be part of the problem.
That and I needed to make an informed decision on whether to take my Dad to this or Guardians of the Galaxy 2 for Father's Day.
Needless to say, Guardians rehash is winning the day.
Scarecrow
Member
GotG2 on a father's day is what we call 'nailing it.' Good choice.
What about the guy who was like "I know wheat!!" and proceeded to take something on an unknown alien planet and... I think put it in his mouth?!
UberTag
Member
I need to make up for last year's debacle of Independence Day: Resurgence... which I had little say over as it's the sequel to one of my Dad's all-time favorite films.
At least we caught the double bill so we got to see the superior original flick on the big screen beforehand.
As a fellow "Dad" I was more than happier my son suggested we see GotG2 rather than Covenant. One's fun, joyous and has some nice father themes. The other is another knife in the gut for those of us who were there originally with Alien.
Unless you think he's desperate to see Covenant with some company I'd suggest the alternative.
I was far more entertained on a minute to minute basis by Covenant than I was GotG.
I love Bautista's character but in terms of predictable storytelling that film beats this one by a large margin. Nothing really elicited an emotional reaction bar a couple of minor laughs. It felt like a long episode of television.
Sorry to go off topic.
At least Alien had me gripped, regardless of the disappointing bits. It did strike me that David as a character seemed vastly different to his role in prometheus. Which was quite a jump.
I love Bautista's character but in terms of predictable storytelling that film beats this one by a large margin. Nothing really elicited an emotional reaction bar a couple of minor laughs. It felt like a long episode of television.
Sorry to go off topic.
At least Alien had me gripped, regardless of the disappointing bits. It did strike me that David as a character seemed vastly different to his role in prometheus. Which was quite a jump.
I thought that was really weird, especially given how every other alien film, Prometheus included, has gone to great pains to be careful about it. But they'd just landed in a giant puddle of what they just assumed was water. I think I'd probably just chalk it up to "we've got amazing sneakers!"
b&jy77VjiKn$#F
Member
Scott, after seeing people complained about Prometheus crew removing helmet, probably said: "Fuck the helmet."
UberTag
Member
Ironically, The Simpsons made this almost exact same joke in their Rigel VII alien abduction episode a couple years ago.
Eat, drink and shoot up with crap and aliens won't want to touch you. They'll try to eat you and just die.
Laughing Banana
Weeping Pickle
It was doubly moronic considering not long afterwards the pilot lady was all WAHHWAHHWAHH WE'RE PROBABLY INFECTED WAHHWAHHWAHH.
Although in terms of head-smacking idiocy the Captain following David and following his instruction to look at the Alien egg--and this is AFTER he witnessed David screaming NOOOO after he shot the Alien that FUCKING BEHEADED ONE OF HIS CREW--is most probably the worst of them all.
I mean yes in order to enjoy movies such as these you need to often suspend your disbelief on the various acts of on-screen stupidity but even so that was a bit too much to swallow.
Days like these...
Have a Blessed Day
So is the franchise salvageable? I've written it off. We still have Alien and Aliens that can't be tainted by this garbage.
JimiNutz
Banned
Saw it last night and wasn't a huge fan. I actually quite liked Prometheus in certain parts but found this rather boring. Definitely felt like I'd seen it all before.
If I was 15 and had never seen Alien or Aliens I might be more lenient and give this a higher score but if you've seen Alien or Aliens you'll wonder why they bothered to make this. It does nothing better.
Scott needs to let someone else make a modern Alien film now because I think the franchise still has potential.
If I was 15 and had never seen Alien or Aliens I might be more lenient and give this a higher score but if you've seen Alien or Aliens you'll wonder why they bothered to make this. It does nothing better.
Scott needs to let someone else make a modern Alien film now because I think the franchise still has potential.
Bucket Mouse
Member
Covenant is definitely a better film than Prometheus.
It is still fucking shit.
- No one wearing a helmet when disembarking on an uncharted alien world full of potential deadly pathogens.
- Crew selected for trillion dollar research mission are ragtag group of hotheads instead of dispassionate, professional scientists.
- Sniff the spores!
- No one seems to be in awe of the existence of a giant crashed alien ship
- No one seems to be in awe of the remarkable ancient civilization with its Pompeii graveyard of humanoids
- Everyone is perfectly happy to stay overnight at David's ancient temple hotel. Shower included!
- Daniels doesn't inform the Covenant crew that there are hostile aliens on the surface
- Crew is comprised of husbands and wives who are split up between the ship and the surface and may not have cool heads in stressful situations.
- Billy Crudup isn't put off by David's laboratory of horrors and willingly goes down into his basement of death. Then willingly peers into an egg.
- Xenomorph is entirely overexposed and isn't scary in 2017. Creature effects are subpar.
- Shocking Walter and David switcheroo shocks everyone in the audience
It is still fucking shit.
- No one wearing a helmet when disembarking on an uncharted alien world full of potential deadly pathogens.
- Crew selected for trillion dollar research mission are ragtag group of hotheads instead of dispassionate, professional scientists.
- Sniff the spores!
- No one seems to be in awe of the existence of a giant crashed alien ship
- No one seems to be in awe of the remarkable ancient civilization with its Pompeii graveyard of humanoids
- Everyone is perfectly happy to stay overnight at David's ancient temple hotel. Shower included!
- Daniels doesn't inform the Covenant crew that there are hostile aliens on the surface
- Crew is comprised of husbands and wives who are split up between the ship and the surface and may not have cool heads in stressful situations.
- Billy Crudup isn't put off by David's laboratory of horrors and willingly goes down into his basement of death. Then willingly peers into an egg.
- Xenomorph is entirely overexposed and isn't scary in 2017. Creature effects are subpar.
- Shocking Walter and David switcheroo shocks everyone in the audience
MedicUnderFire
Neo Member
I laughed, when daniels said to Tennessee about how the xenomorphs blood was acid, so not to shoot it, likes it wasn't important and also after they'd been chasing it for like 20 minutes, what if he'd encountered it and shot it way before they got it into the cargo bay.
Lynd7
Member
What's the point in jumping to the third film then doing the second? Why didn't he just make it in order? Strange.
They had to get the Alien in there
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This was brought up earlier in the thread, but this happens all the time in sci-fi movies/tv. Star Trek is one of the biggest violators of this, the whole "scan it from the ship, decide if you need a suit (you never do), go down." In ALIEN they wear them because they can't breathe otherwise. In Aliens they don't wear them because (even though they know there's a murderous organism on the planet) the planet is terraformed for them. They actually went out of their way to explain why they were about to do it up in the ship (it was pretty clunky, in fact - kind of a cousin to the "they can beat each other up on this unpopulated island!" in Batman v Superman). They scanned it, got very detailed readings from Muthur about the planet's habitable nature, and then compared it to the planet they were on their way to, and said it was some measure more habitable than that.
Basically, they were going to visit a planet that apparently already had a person on it, that was more livable than the one they were supposed to be living the rest of their lives on.
Unfortunately it was also a planet that David rigged up with morphberry crunch.
Depends on what you're there for. For a lot of people, it basically doesn't matter what number we're on, these films aren't for overarching storylines and philosophical musings, it's just Dickbeasts from space picking off a variety of assholes for a whole movie.
When this thing opens at like, 50+ mil, limps its way to 135-140 domestic, and makes enough cash overseas to justify doing another one, we'll probably get another one, too.
That's exactly what it was.
Again, I can understand why people might be sorta confused for a sec if you're basing it solely on the imagery from that scene, and nothing else, and the screening is dark and it makes seeing what you're seeing a little harder to do. But once you put that scene in context, it doesn't make any sense based on what this movie shows and tells you, and what the last movie showed and told you.
And yes, I know "not making sense" is a real problem with Ridley's last two Alien films and really doesn't disqualify a lot of things from being "real" in the universe, but this one really doesn't make any sense. You have to take that flashback totally in a vacuum.
CosmicGroinPull
Member
So basically David's research turned the Dickbeasts into Black HardDickbeasts right?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
David's research and experiments led to the creation of the universe's first dickbeasts in pale vanilla and dark chocolate flavors.
It remains to be seen whether he will, in the future, cook up what we've come to recognize as Dickbeast Classic, and if that will include inventing a way for them to propagate on their own without his gentle touch, perhaps via a queen.
It remains to be seen whether he will, in the future, cook up what we've come to recognize as Dickbeast Classic, and if that will include inventing a way for them to propagate on their own without his gentle touch, perhaps via a queen.
Wasn't that his cigar that he put in his mouth?
Also, I'm still not convinced this planet is the Engineer homeworld. It just makes more sense to me that it's a human-like race created by the Engineers, who worship their creators. When David turns up in the juggernaut and they amass in the square, I don't think it's because it's just one of their ships returning -- I think it's because this race, who revere their creators so much, are expecting a visit from their "gods".
I mean, I'm willing to be proven wrong. It'll be tremendously disappointing if so because yeah, it's wasted potential. But what in the film implies it's specifically their home world? I went to a midnight screening so might have missed something due to tiredness.