Tony Redgrave
Member
K, removed it then.
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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
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afternoon delight
Member
It's the immediate and most tangible idea for me to immediately switch my brain into slasher monster movie / comics / late nineties paperbacks territory.
I've also always really liked the deleted transformation scene as well, but understand why it was cut... It's really tough, like you say. Since I saw it so young, was transfixed by how it was just a single organism that wiped out the entire ship so quickly. It blew my mind later on to learn about the scene and its implications.
I think fans spend more hours than the staff thinking about continuity, but maybe I'm wrong.
Funny enough, crazy android kung fu isn't the oddest moment in this film. And I'm not complaining.
No, you're onto something. Let's put it this way: when your movie allows for a plausible space Jesus theory, you done fucked up.
Completely forgot about that in my previous post. Welp no, it seems you can't fix the shit in Prometheus, because they've said that the Engineers were on their way to Earth 2000+ years ago, which indeed hints at big BS.
Thanks. I remember that scene but somehow don't recall that bit at all.
In Prometheus, there's a mural that depicts a xenomorph and a facehugger. It's possible that doesn't have to mean anything, but maybe the xenomorph had already existed and was a fascination for the Engineers or they straight-up created them (meaning they could have a queen somewhere). This could have led to the ships' and general engineer designs being similar to the xeno.
Maybe David is just picking up from that fascination. Maybe the spores are byproducts of the Engineers' fascination with the xenomorph.
David with the wasp was interesting, because it's possible that was a requirement (hive-like organism) to further develop the xenomorphs.
Just curious about where the LV-426 derelict, engineer, and tons of eggs fit in. It has to be set way before (explaining how the xeno's have existed prior to David), but with all the retconning going on, who knows.
EDIT: This can also explain why the xenos take on attributes of their hosts, but contain their main xeno design. David just needed some sort of DNA to work with, similar enough to achieve the results.
Maybe David is just picking up from that fascination. Maybe the spores are byproducts of the Engineers' fascination with the xenomorph.
David with the wasp was interesting, because it's possible that was a requirement (hive-like organism) to further develop the xenomorphs.
Just curious about where the LV-426 derelict, engineer, and tons of eggs fit in. It has to be set way before (explaining how the xeno's have existed prior to David), but with all the retconning going on, who knows.
EDIT: This can also explain why the xenos take on attributes of their hosts, but contain their main xeno design. David just needed some sort of DNA to work with, similar enough to achieve the results.
Astral Dog
Member
im afraid you guys are taking this one more seriously than the filmakers are 😯 specially a certain horse
Ha, yeah I'm sure Ridley Scott just wants to tell a story of creation and is using Fox's Alien franchise money to do it, but I grew up with the franchise and love it to death. It's an interest of mine.
ronaldthump
Member
Katzenjammer
Member
Just watched this. I wish I had gone alone because then I could have left the cinema, but didn't know how my friends felt. It was really boring. And really stupid, ever since they decided to follow that signal the stupidity never let up. The characters were the least likeable I've seen since Rogue One, I didn't care about any of them dying or surviving.
Between this and that Life movie with Gyllenhaal, this year has been really shite when it comes to entertaining space movies.
Between this and that Life movie with Gyllenhaal, this year has been really shite when it comes to entertaining space movies.
ronaldthump
Member
they didnt turn them into eggs, more like incubators. They needed to enter the host, take on the DNA and then they explode out like some sort of parasite. The horror is in the violence of killing the host and of course, the creature subsequently killing everyone else.
...Okay, you got me there.
The Alien was turning its victims into eggs in one of the deleted scenes in the original movie. Scene was probably deleted because it kills the pacing of the Nostromo's self-destruct sequence.
I'm personally fine with the queen. One, because Aliens is an amazing movie. Two, because eusocial animals are weird from a biological standpoint. Aliens didn't really take advantage of this, but real world eusocial colonies are honestly far more bizarre than anything people can think up. The queen doesn't "rule" a colony of mindless individuals so much as she serves as the gonads of a collective working together as a single giant organism. It's especially crazy in ants/bees where the queen can create males without fertilization: They're basically the queen's giant flying sperm.
Saw this a day ago... while the crew didn't make the same idiotic mistakes as the Prometheus, they still made idiot mistakes none the less. "Yes, I lied about all that stuff... follow me to this foreboding pod and stick your face in... it's safe" 🤔 "Well, you seem so calm about my accusations... Sure, ok!"
I think I'll watch LIFE and see if it's the better alien film.
I think I'll watch LIFE and see if it's the better alien film.
Astral Dog
Member
my sister wants to watch Bladerunner (?) today any opinion looks interesting
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Wait a min, that can't be
sonofabitch.
He's even got the better vs. movie! Motherfucker.
Broken Joystick
At least you can talk. Who are you?
As someone who's not seen any other Alien film and watched this the other day, what's David's ultimate goal? To spread the alien shit everywhere he can? I didn't really understand what the end game for him was, though I understand why he turned "evil".
ArkkAngel007
Member
His ultimate goal is to surpass his, and their, creators, partly through his own creations. While an assumption, it's likely that David will want to spread his own creations on Earth as a final act in that conflict.
phazedplasma
Member
To make sure you hate the series enough never to watch those movies.
More_Badass
Member
Am I remembering it wrong, or was the young neomorph more durable than the adult? The young one took a ton of shots from the soldiers and didn't die, while the adult got killed in one burst of gunfire from Oram
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
The issue for me is how much a stupid plot furthers my already negative feelings about the botched aesthetics of these movies.
There is always some person who has to point out that the Prometheus is technologically more advanced than the Nostromo because it is a highly funded research vessel.
Do you realize how moronic that sounds? A fucking holographic heads up display cockpit with touch screens on every tangible surface is not an upgrade from a push button, analogue interface ship wide. Its a fallacy. Military technology also isn't going to regress from assault weapons that resemble AR family weapons to what is seen in Alien and Aliens. Space suits arent going to get bigger. Motion trackers arent going to devolve into huge television sized boxes. I guess thats military funded too huh?
I seriously feel as though Alien fans are too snobby to admit that Ridley Scott is the George Lucas of horror.
s_mirage
Member
It did seem that way, although perhaps that could be put down to Oram getting centre of mass fire on a static target, where as earlier they were spraying shots around at a fast moving target.
Horse Detective
Why the long case?
At least Alien Isolation gave a semblance of a fuck
I guess the next sequel to Fallout should look like Blade Runner because hey artistic freedom
I guess the next sequel to Fallout should look like Blade Runner because hey artistic freedom
Scott said in a pre-release interview that he's "doing War of the Worlds next". So, yeah.
Biggest-Geek-Ever
Member
Not likely, given the second weekend drop this thing is looking to have.
Fancy Clown
Member
I'm referring to the extremely creepy deleted scene from Alien (reinserted for the "director's" cut) that shows Dallas being turned into a literal egg. That's always been a way freakier and more alien method of reproduction than the queen from Aliens to me.
I get the complaint...but I feel like picking at what amounts to background aesthetics for a entry in a series that's made several decades later and is telling a totally different story is like the least important thing to criticize. It's like people who complain how Gotham doesn't look the same in any of the Nolan Batman movies. It's like....okay, but how does that affect the story at the end of the day? Is it bad on its own terms, or is just bad because it's impacts nerdy head canon stuff about timelines not matching up. At the end of the day each individual movie is its own production and has its own set of creative guidelines that superced the unimpeachable fan canon. And Alien is already a series where literally every single entry has been wildly divergent in look and tone since it's very first sequel, so I think we're like 30 years late to be complaining about that sort of thing anyway.
I could get behind the argument that the new movies look to clean and lack the gritty atmosphere that was so key to the horror or something..but I'm not about to fret about touchscreens and shit on a spaceship in a movie made in 2017, or that the guns don't make pew pew noises anymore. Like, there are much more substantial things you can peg Ridley Scott, especially if you're gonna compare him to Lucas in a derogatory way.
Fancy Clown
Member
Double post nooo
"Now all the Alien movies feel like Cannon!"
A very fun rehash of their original Prometheus review.
Gunslinger
Member
They should have let Neil Bokamp(sorry I if spell his name wrong) make the sequel to aliens.
thecouncil
Banned
Let's not get crazy here.
Fancy Clown
Member
Yeah Blomkamp sucks and his idea sucked. We mustn't be afraid to dream a little bigger, darling.
Denis Villeneuve, Robert Eggers (director of The Witch), Matt Reeves, or even giving Fincher another crack, are all on my dream shortlist for people who could probably make a prettty sweet Alien movie.
Denis Villeneuve, Robert Eggers (director of The Witch), Matt Reeves, or even giving Fincher another crack, are all on my dream shortlist for people who could probably make a prettty sweet Alien movie.
Dash_Riprock
Member
Lets be honest: It would have been shit. The man has proven himself to be a One-Hit Wonder. But then, here's the kicker: Would it have been any worse than Prometheus/Covenant? At the very least we would got to see Ripley and Hick on screen one last time...
Or just say fuck it and give it to Verhoeven for the greatest Alien flick to date. Yes, if there is one person who I truly do believe could make something as great as the original and maybe exceed. It's him. Dude only does things different and would have no problem I feel digging into the creature's, sexual overtones while pleasing the religious direction they've took. The damn man can do it.
Deleting everything else because Verhoeven is the director Alien needs and desires.
Deleting everything else because Verhoeven is the director Alien needs and desires.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
Ahahaha, that was great.
Just saw it. Don't know how i feel about it.
Cool scenes and cool soundtrack. Good pace and acting.
Dat twist tho. I remember a mural in Prometheus that despicted a facehugger , how can that be? If it was David who created them?
Also, it killed all the mistery from the first movie. I remember the emotions that the space jockey , the ship and the eggs gave me, like the sensations I feel when I read Lovecraft, all that is 100% gone now.
Cool scenes and cool soundtrack. Good pace and acting.
Dat twist tho. I remember a mural in Prometheus that despicted a facehugger , how can that be? If it was David who created them?
Also, it killed all the mistery from the first movie. I remember the emotions that the space jockey , the ship and the eggs gave me, like the sensations I feel when I read Lovecraft, all that is 100% gone now.
So what is considered canon and not?
This movie and more to come supposedly suggests David being the creator of the xenomorph. I read up on the lore and there is a homeworld, a hierarchy consisting of Queen Mothers at the top, etc. It seems much more rich than what we are getting in the movies.
The engineers having some sort of civil war and the xenomorph was actually their creation to fight among each other. It seems like Ridley just threw a lot of things out the window.
This movie and more to come supposedly suggests David being the creator of the xenomorph. I read up on the lore and there is a homeworld, a hierarchy consisting of Queen Mothers at the top, etc. It seems much more rich than what we are getting in the movies.
The engineers having some sort of civil war and the xenomorph was actually their creation to fight among each other. It seems like Ridley just threw a lot of things out the window.
That comic lore was never canon.
Prometheus,Covenant,Alien,Alien Isolation,Aliens,Alien3 and Resurrection are the official canon.
Colonial Marines is supposed to be canon too but...lmao no one at Fox is ever going to double down on that one
ArkkAngel007
Member
The books (Sea of Sorrows, River of Pain, and I forget the other) are canon as well until a film or other work comes along to contradict those events.
It's likely that the Xenomorph will get its full cycle, independent of David, in the next film. Question is if David does so intentionally, or if life finds a way on its own at his expense.
Poimandres
Member
I just saw this. Thought the film was alright, less of a jumbled mess than Prometheus but it wasn't reaching as far and my expectations were in check.
My main problem is a question of the engineer home planet... Were there other engineers there or were they all in the city? Seems weird there's a whole planet but only one city. Unless the payload/virus ultimately spread to the whole planet? Anyone have insight there?
My main problem is a question of the engineer home planet... Were there other engineers there or were they all in the city? Seems weird there's a whole planet but only one city. Unless the payload/virus ultimately spread to the whole planet? Anyone have insight there?
Sub_Level
wants to fuck an Asian grill.
All will be explained in the sequel to this movie's prequel's sequel.
Poimandres
Member
Tony Redgrave
Member
There's a official novel coming that will bridge the events of Prometheus and Covenant, we'll probably get a lot of the Engineer stuff there.
Oh that was perfect. Sums up every boneheaded issue with the film. Watching Aliens now on IFC, realizing how even a 31 year old film has better dialogue than this prequel sequel prequel.
Fox Mulder
Member
I just saw it too and it was fine. Not great, not complete shit. I had zero expectations and learned to shut my brain off with Prometheus. I'm not even going to pick at the flaws or plot theories.
Tawney Bomb
Member
Everything up until they met David I enjoyed, then it was predictable.
ArkkAngel007
Member
No way you predicted McFarlane Figure Xeno rising from the Captains chest.
Aside from dumb little things like that,
I'd say the whole film was predictable as it leaned so much on the beats of Alien and other predecessors
I'd say the whole film was predictable as it leaned so much on the beats of Alien and other predecessors
shawnbuddy
Member
I realized pretty early on that I didn't really remember anything that happened in Prometheus but the silly parts, so I spent most of this one confused. The main thing was I forgot they were going to the Engineer homeworld at the end, and I didn't think the people David killed looked tall enough to be the Engineers. By the end I kinda put it all together and it's actually relatively straightforward, although the origin of David's sudden "kill all humans" turn is murky. It's a decent film but I'm not sure there's a lot of point to it. The only reason to go to the Engineer's homeworld is if you are going to explain who they are, and that does not happen, not at all. Could have skipped straight to David intercepting a human colony without many changes.
Oh, and someone on GAF spoiled the whole ending for me in an unmarked thread. I thought it would hurt my enjoyment of the film, but it didn't because you can see that twist coming as soon as David cuts his hair. Neatly and expertly with scissors he found on a planet where everyone is bald.
As far as the Christian subtext, I think the main thing going on is that the Christian captain is weak and useless, and that might be because the faith that supports him is based on a lie. We weren't created by God, we were created by the Engineers. And they are dead. And even though an Engineer is implied to have been Jesus, I'd assume that humans have corrupted and twisted whatever teachings he had for us, else the Engineers wouldn't be so keen to scrub their experiment. Other elements I noticed were that James Franco's character believes in climbing without a rope and the Christain captain mentions this, a bit derisively with the rope as a metaphor for faith. When the main character is hanging off the spaceship near the end I expected her to cut her rope and do some free climbing, thus cementing the movie's anti-Christian themes, but she does not. There's also the (crucifixion) nail, of course, but I'm not sure what the metaphorical value of jamming it through David's chin was.
Looking back at both films I kinda wish Scott had went with his original, less marketable vision. Give us space Jesus and a whole second movie explaining the Engineers.
Also, this film is not afraid to make nonsense of the Aliens Vs. Predator franchise. In AVP the Aliens are an ancient ritual enemy of the Predators, but here we see the Aliens are actually a hybrid weapon specifically created to destroy humanity, one that didn't take on its final form until David finished the Engineers' work in Covenant. I mean, both Aliens Vs. Predator films take place before Prometheus, they couldn't have happened.
Oh, and someone on GAF spoiled the whole ending for me in an unmarked thread. I thought it would hurt my enjoyment of the film, but it didn't because you can see that twist coming as soon as David cuts his hair. Neatly and expertly with scissors he found on a planet where everyone is bald.
As far as the Christian subtext, I think the main thing going on is that the Christian captain is weak and useless, and that might be because the faith that supports him is based on a lie. We weren't created by God, we were created by the Engineers. And they are dead. And even though an Engineer is implied to have been Jesus, I'd assume that humans have corrupted and twisted whatever teachings he had for us, else the Engineers wouldn't be so keen to scrub their experiment. Other elements I noticed were that James Franco's character believes in climbing without a rope and the Christain captain mentions this, a bit derisively with the rope as a metaphor for faith. When the main character is hanging off the spaceship near the end I expected her to cut her rope and do some free climbing, thus cementing the movie's anti-Christian themes, but she does not. There's also the (crucifixion) nail, of course, but I'm not sure what the metaphorical value of jamming it through David's chin was.
Looking back at both films I kinda wish Scott had went with his original, less marketable vision. Give us space Jesus and a whole second movie explaining the Engineers.
Also, this film is not afraid to make nonsense of the Aliens Vs. Predator franchise. In AVP the Aliens are an ancient ritual enemy of the Predators, but here we see the Aliens are actually a hybrid weapon specifically created to destroy humanity, one that didn't take on its final form until David finished the Engineers' work in Covenant. I mean, both Aliens Vs. Predator films take place before Prometheus, they couldn't have happened.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
It's kind of funny how I actually prefer that scenario now that I see how Covenant turned out.
Doctoglethorpe
Member
Once again helmets would have saved everyone.
And the teasing about David being alive or dead was dumb, it was too obvious, just show it.
I also feel like this series is doomed to never have real stakes. Every next movie just goes scorched Earth on the characters and plot, and drives it off in another random direction. Like they want it to be one coherent story but they are never satisfied with what they have and ditch as much as possible between each film.
It was okay.
And the teasing about David being alive or dead was dumb, it was too obvious, just show it.
I also feel like this series is doomed to never have real stakes. Every next movie just goes scorched Earth on the characters and plot, and drives it off in another random direction. Like they want it to be one coherent story but they are never satisfied with what they have and ditch as much as possible between each film.
It was okay.
Just came back from seeing it, and didn't like it at all. Literally kept nodding off in the first 30 minutes or so. I loved Prometheus, so I was expecting Prometheus 2, but didn't get it at all, and i'm really disappointed. I hated Shaw's ultimate ending (should've known when they were ambiguous about whether Rapace was even going to be in this one; i had tried to avoid any and all spoilers before seeing the film), and after the movie was over, I had to double check if Ridley Scott had even directed it (he did of course). Just really disappointed right now :/
My order would be: Aliens>Alien>Prometheus>Aliens 3>Alien vs Predator (yeah i know)>Alien Covenant>Alien Resurrection
My order would be: Aliens>Alien>Prometheus>Aliens 3>Alien vs Predator (yeah i know)>Alien Covenant>Alien Resurrection