Bobby Roberts
Banned
I'd argue it's absolutely necessary still.
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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS
- Thread starter Toa TAK
- Start date
I'd argue it's absolutely necessary still.
Nah. It pretty much goes hand-in-hand with the themes of the franchise.
Very unlikely.
ronaldthump
Member
theres nothing wrong with breaking conventions and themes especially if it involves anchoring the film with a female lead just because.
I would take it one step further and make the next protagonist another David 8 synth since Ridley likes those damn things so much.
Even better, make it so that it doesn't know it's not human. Then we can go full Blade Runner.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
why.
Why is it unlikely? That's what you haven't explained. I understand that you'd like for it to play that way, but I don't get why it's unlikely that it didn't, especially considering what the film (and that prologue) shows us.
What is this film telling you that makes you think it's as obvious as it is to you that Shaw woke up, and in one last semi-triumphant gasp of fight against David's malicious nature, wrested control of the ship, steered it into the side of a hill while singing Take Me Home Country Roads, and managed to set that song as a signal beacon for the next 10 years?
Do you really think the problem here is the gender of the lead and not the writing of the character?
What makes you come to the conclusion that things would suddenly be better if the Alien series decided it was time to join the other 75% of all major film releases and abandon its female lead for a male one?
Metalingus5150
Member
I'll ask this. Does Fassbender out act everyone again?
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Twice.
Everything.
- You see Shaw in the driver seat.
- You see the ship crashed in a mountain, it's obvious David didn't do it, he's stranded.
- There's a book coming out which is talking about the events between Prometheus and Covenant.
It is very, very, very obvious.
I guess? I don't think the female lead is a problem. If anything, the issue is still the storytelling like everything that has come from this series after Aliens.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
None of that is obvious, man. Aside from the obviousness of you wanting it, nothing there spells anything out very clearly at all. You don't know that she's actually in the driver's seat (or that it IS the driver's seat - isn't the weird penis thing that comes rotating up out of the floor the driver's seat?), you don't know that it's obvious David didn't do it (you'd just like for it to be), and just because there's a book coming out doesn't mean it's obvious your hypothesis is going to be contained within the book, either.
None of what you're saying is obvious at all.
How bout instead of removing the female lead, we instead get a woman writer/director to make the fuckin' movie, if you're looking to switch up gender roles on one of these films.
wesleyshark
Banned
Of course haha. It's Fassbender.
Of all the fucking things to copy from Alien 3
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Alien vision returns, too.
Also the plan to steer the Alien into the trap by shutting doors and forcing it down specific corridors.
And both the neomorphs and xenomorphs in this film move like the dog alien does.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Came out of the film just now. Need to digest all of that.
So, I won't ask stupid questions like HOW DID DAVID IMPERSONATE WALTER AND CUT HIS HAND OFF, MADENOSENSE, etc. I'm just wondering about the planet they're off to. Could it be that it's LV-426? Is Awakening a prequel to this or a sequel?
I liked the film. Not great, but a good film. It was a complete Fassbender vehicle, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
So, I won't ask stupid questions like HOW DID DAVID IMPERSONATE WALTER AND CUT HIS HAND OFF, MADENOSENSE, etc. I'm just wondering about the planet they're off to. Could it be that it's LV-426? Is Awakening a prequel to this or a sequel?
I liked the film. Not great, but a good film. It was a complete Fassbender vehicle, and I'm perfectly fine with that.
I'm more just pissed off that again, a character from a previous movie was killed offscreen in a cheap way. Though in Alien 3 it was worse because Aliens was a far better movie than Alien 3, while by the sound of it Alien Covenant isn't a step down from Prometheus.
Secret Fawful
Member
So how weird are we talking with this David Walter music scene? Because everyone is making it sound like David is basically metaphorically fucking himself.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
He puts his flute in Walter's mouth and wraps his hands around the base of it while working the fingers for Walter as he blows.
Corpsepyre
Banned
You didn't mention David saying 'I'll do the FINGERING'.
Secret Fawful
Member
Ay, Dios mío.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I wanted to leave the man the cherry on the top
Corpsepyre
Banned
Lol...anyway,
Were those engineers on the planet, by the way? Didn't seem like it. Seemed more humanoid, with not as pale skin, and smaller in stature.
I'm analyzing the clues left here and there. Maybe that's not your thing, fine. We'll see if I'm right in due time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
To clarify - I wanna make sure I'm analyzing the clue you're leaving me here - are you suggesting that I don't see the obvious thing you're seeing because I'm not intelligent enough to have noticed its obviousness on first view?
Maybe it'll be in the obvious book that's obviously coming that you must obviously know the contents of?
Obviously, I was asking you because I'm honestly interested in what it is you saw in the film that led you to believe how obvious it was that Shaw crashed the ship into the mountain as a final rebellious act against David and his genocide. If you have obvious answers that make sense, I'd love to hear them. That's why I'm asking you directly. Because I don't see them, and you haven't explained how you can very well.
I'm not saying it's impossible that could be an outcome. I'm saying I don't see a) anything in the film obviously pointing to it, and b) I don't know why you're so convinced that's the case.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Well, the Promotheus critics will be happy. They cut out all story and replaced it with blood and splatter. The Engineer narrative has been completely cut. This is a straight up gore film. Utterly disappointed.
If Prometheus was Superman Returns, Covenant is Batman v Superman.
If Prometheus was Superman Returns, Covenant is Batman v Superman.
Corpsepyre
Banned
Is it possible Shaw gave birth to some proto-Queen, which then laid those eggs?
Gotta see it again.
Gotta see it again.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Nope. David made those eggs.
Is the Shaw-Queen connection a meme now? (It should be).
Naw. Hasn't this woman gone through enough? Why does this infertile woman have to keep getting pregnant with the most horrifying monsters in space?
Corpsepyre
Banned
I just think there has to be something more to Shaw. Hmm.
I was a bit wiped during the film. Can you explain how exactly he created those eggs?
Meus Renaissance
Member
We thought Shaw, or her memory, would be key to David's understanding of his purpose. We thought she may have been killed by the humanoids before David avenged her.
Nope.
Turns out he just opened her up and become predictable villain #261. The fact that people here are trying to analyse the plot to look for subtext or clues is a little sad to be honest.
The plot was discarded to give audiences an alien killing people as they shower. Analyse that.
Nope.
Turns out he just opened her up and become predictable villain #261. The fact that people here are trying to analyse the plot to look for subtext or clues is a little sad to be honest.
The plot was discarded to give audiences an alien killing people as they shower. Analyse that.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I don't know how, because nothing about the biology of any of this makes sense. But the film features David speaking on his experiments, and shows all his experiments, and then David talks about a very special experiment of his, and leads Oram to the egg chamber he has set up.
Eppy Thatcher
God's had his chance.
Yea... dude should stop trying to write movies yesterday. What a dumb fucking direction to take your legendary franchise.
This is easily the least interesting direction he could have possibly taken the origin of a such an iconic design/character. I used to play with aliens toys and imagine all the insane possible ways they came to be. Then the internet comes about and even more articulate and creative people are talking about all the different possibilities... comparing them to angels and devils in the same breath. Speaking of swarms... of taming.. of Engineers knowing and fighting them forever. Predators vs. Aliens comics are amazing. Their stories work so fucking well and they are BASIC af. They try half as hard and are twice as successful at creating a compelling universe out of these base elements.
Time to go watch Aliens again.
Carl2291
Member
I thought the plot is about the creation of life, and David trying to emulate or improve upon Weyland's achievements. The opening scene with Weyland and David is all about his creation, and who created humanity. Weyland teaching him some basic things/ connecting with him.
David has spent 10 years creating his own lifeforms and experimenting with them, and has a conversation with Walter about purpose. He teaches Walter how to play the flute, tries to connect with the neomorph and effectively controls the chestburster with the whole raising the arms thing.
He's trying to create the perfect lifeform that can adapt to any situation while keeping control over it. The way I see it, he's trying to perfect what the engineers started. Engineers created humanity, humanity created the android, android creates Xeno. The perfect lifeform.
At least that's how I look at it. No subtext or clues, it's all there in the two films.
Ask Ridley Scott, I'm sure he has a good reason.
I wouldn't say that, especially for something that's only been alive for a few hours or so.
Xeno's adapt and grow at a fucking ridiculous rate apparently.
Have we ever seen one that wasn't born recently and wasn't a queen? I can't remember.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
It's a callback to when Ash said it in the first movie, where (at the time) it was a completely unknowable, unknown, and presumably unkillable beast from the depths of the universe.
Of course now, it doesn't make much sense, because the xenomorph from 1979 is not the xenomorph in 2017, (and the first steps towards it being an easily killable bug were taken in 1986), so unless you know it's a direct reference to a line of dialog from an earlier film, it doesn't make much sense on its own anymore.
31GhostsIV
Banned
Just went to see it.
Hot garbage. Danny McBride was surprisingly good (I didn't think I'd be able to take him seriously). How much did Franco get paid to not be in the movie?
What's with the inconsistent incubation periods now? Not to mention the xeno that can grow to full size within what, a few minutes?
Ridley needs to let it go. He's basically murdered the mythos.
Oh jesus, don't give him ideas. Alien Prequel 3 with hot three way Fassbender on Fassbender on Fassbender action.
Hot garbage. Danny McBride was surprisingly good (I didn't think I'd be able to take him seriously). How much did Franco get paid to not be in the movie?
What's with the inconsistent incubation periods now? Not to mention the xeno that can grow to full size within what, a few minutes?
Ridley needs to let it go. He's basically murdered the mythos.
Oh jesus, don't give him ideas. Alien Prequel 3 with hot three way Fassbender on Fassbender on Fassbender action.
Alien: Shame
Corpsepyre
Banned
Where was that LGBT couple though? Didn't see any.
Guy who gets Neomorph'd and Guy who gets Chestbursted by like...6 seconds of Facehugger Action
Corpsepyre
Banned
Uh, Ok. That was random. Didn't see them more than just colleagues.
You see a shot of their wedding ring when he is holding the body after he vomits out the Neomorph.
He also says something like "I'm here with you, I won't leave"
Carl2291
Member
You've got to remember that the Xeno is essentially a parasitic killing machine.
It kills the host on birth. They're bigger, stronger and faster than that host... It's ultra-strong and agile. It has a special defence mechanism with the acidic blood. It reaches it's fully matured form in a stupidly fast amount of time. It's shown to be able to endure the most extreme of conditions from the cold of space, to being covered in molten lead.
Obviously there's flaws, but looking at it from a certain point of view you can see why they call it the perfect organism.
31GhostsIV
Banned
I took it as experimenting with Shaw's ovaries to create the eggs? But she was infertile, right?
I can't get over what a shitshow the movie was.