how so? am in argentina, and i buy my own games all the time, dont see how this will push piracy any more than what it is already. Hell, imma go as far as to say, piracy on PC is just a strawman argument for people who do not understand the market these days.
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All Russian/Brazillian (or similar) games on Steam now have regional activation locks
- Thread starter Salsa
- Start date
how so? am in argentina, and i buy my own games all the time, dont see how this will push piracy any more than what it is already. Hell, imma go as far as to say, piracy on PC is just a strawman argument for people who do not understand the market these days.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I agree that regional pricing and banning grey-market importation is basically a case of corporations abusing globalization's benefits without paying the costs. That's clearly true with Valve, who do business in Europe in either Ireland or Luxembourg so as to minimize regulatory costs and taxes.
That being said, this is basically an unsolvable problem from the publishers point of view:
Choice A: Don't sell anything in developing countries
Choice B: Sell everything for a single fixed price worldwide, which is basically the same thing as saying don't sell anything in developing countries
Choice C: Sell everything for different prices, catered to regional markets, but allow grey-market importation. The rate of importation will depend on the price differential and the cost in time, effort, and money to do the importation. If the time/effort cost is 0 and the price savings are high, we'd expect customers to choose grey-market importation often. But this has the impact of making the pattern of sales close to Choice B, except the single fixed price is no longer the high global price, but the lowest developing market price. Steam is a case where importation is trivially easy, very well known, instantaneous, and saves significant amounts of money. Also, because it's a digital good, there's literally no difference in the product. It is possible to imagine scenarios where importation is a minor inconvenience and expanding into the markets is still highly worth it; scenarios where importation costs companies a significant amount; and scenarios where the amount they lose from importation exceeds the amount they make from being in the regions at all (which suggests Choice A is the eventual outcome)
This is where someone says "yeah but there can't be many people who do this? This is just a reddit/gaf thing that really high end users do." That may be the case. But I think that publishers have gradually cracked down on it and now Valve is taking active steps suggests that it's happening in high enough volume for people to take notice. It was suggested on GAF that in the weeks running up to the Shadow of Mordor release, very significant major double-digit purchases of the game were coming from low-price regions--if that's true, and I of course don't have access to that data, then that would be pretty damning.
Choice D: Sell everything for different prices, but block grey-market importation. This infuriates customers who perceive it, correctly, as being fairly unfair because other people pay less than they do. On the other hand, very few of them are going to boycott on principle--most of them simply will wait until the price in their region gets lower. Like, I think a lot of the purchases are "I'm willing to spend $30 for Shadow of Mordor. If I can do that day one, then I'll get it from Russia. If not, then I'll wait for the next summer sale."
The general challenge of grey-market importation overlaps with the fact that gaming has another challenge: an absolute glut of somewhat substitutionary goods, leading to a buyer's market that's extremely price sensitive. This is worse on PC than any other platform because there are no technical measures that prevent backwards compatibility, so you're not only competing with other new content but also other old content.
This problem is made seriously worse by the current rapid freefall of the Ruble to the point that the profit / arbitrage opportunity is even more tempting.
I don't think there's an answer that clearly optimizes for customers in both high-income and low-income countries and the desires of content publishers.
That being said, this is basically an unsolvable problem from the publishers point of view:
Choice A: Don't sell anything in developing countries
Choice B: Sell everything for a single fixed price worldwide, which is basically the same thing as saying don't sell anything in developing countries
Choice C: Sell everything for different prices, catered to regional markets, but allow grey-market importation. The rate of importation will depend on the price differential and the cost in time, effort, and money to do the importation. If the time/effort cost is 0 and the price savings are high, we'd expect customers to choose grey-market importation often. But this has the impact of making the pattern of sales close to Choice B, except the single fixed price is no longer the high global price, but the lowest developing market price. Steam is a case where importation is trivially easy, very well known, instantaneous, and saves significant amounts of money. Also, because it's a digital good, there's literally no difference in the product. It is possible to imagine scenarios where importation is a minor inconvenience and expanding into the markets is still highly worth it; scenarios where importation costs companies a significant amount; and scenarios where the amount they lose from importation exceeds the amount they make from being in the regions at all (which suggests Choice A is the eventual outcome)
This is where someone says "yeah but there can't be many people who do this? This is just a reddit/gaf thing that really high end users do." That may be the case. But I think that publishers have gradually cracked down on it and now Valve is taking active steps suggests that it's happening in high enough volume for people to take notice. It was suggested on GAF that in the weeks running up to the Shadow of Mordor release, very significant major double-digit purchases of the game were coming from low-price regions--if that's true, and I of course don't have access to that data, then that would be pretty damning.
Choice D: Sell everything for different prices, but block grey-market importation. This infuriates customers who perceive it, correctly, as being fairly unfair because other people pay less than they do. On the other hand, very few of them are going to boycott on principle--most of them simply will wait until the price in their region gets lower. Like, I think a lot of the purchases are "I'm willing to spend $30 for Shadow of Mordor. If I can do that day one, then I'll get it from Russia. If not, then I'll wait for the next summer sale."
The general challenge of grey-market importation overlaps with the fact that gaming has another challenge: an absolute glut of somewhat substitutionary goods, leading to a buyer's market that's extremely price sensitive. This is worse on PC than any other platform because there are no technical measures that prevent backwards compatibility, so you're not only competing with other new content but also other old content.
This problem is made seriously worse by the current rapid freefall of the Ruble to the point that the profit / arbitrage opportunity is even more tempting.
I don't think there's an answer that clearly optimizes for customers in both high-income and low-income countries and the desires of content publishers.
CambriaRising
Member
I guess I'll be spending less on steam games. Funny how that works, valve.
Thanks to the insightful posters (jasec, drizzle) that helped clear up the exact extent of these changes.
One last question, how can I unambiguosly check which region my steam account is tied to? I checked the account details and profile and everywhere it made sense and could not find it.
I ask because of this: say I buy a game as a gift from the Mexico store intending to gift it to my Mexico friend (which should be possible under this new arrangement), only to find out that his account was originally created as if from the US (for accounts created back when there was no Mexico region nor store nor plans for it).
One last question, how can I unambiguosly check which region my steam account is tied to? I checked the account details and profile and everywhere it made sense and could not find it.
I ask because of this: say I buy a game as a gift from the Mexico store intending to gift it to my Mexico friend (which should be possible under this new arrangement), only to find out that his account was originally created as if from the US (for accounts created back when there was no Mexico region nor store nor plans for it).
Probably your billing address, I've been buying out of region for a little over a year now and while games I've bought have had this tag, I haven't run into issues with it. Only the onlyallowrunin tag.
MegaKungFuRadio
Member
My only regret is that I didn't appreciate it more when it was alive.
"Watch Dogs for $10 is pretty cheap, but I can imagine it cheaper..."
all GTA and w watch dogs and bully and Dark souls 1 and alot alot of games i can't buy it in my country
lashman
Steam-GAF's Official Ambassador to Gaming-GAF
it's because they can afford good lawyers ... we can't
So true.
If you've ever used a credit/debit card on Steam, your billing info when selecting one of the options will auto-fill; the country that is automatically selected is the "home region" of your account. Essentially, whatever region you were in when you first purchased/activated something is the region your account is tied to. It is possible to purchase stuff when abroad by just using http://store.steampowered.com/?cc=xx (where xx is your desired country code) but changing the "home region" of your account is something that only Valve can do.
KainXVIII
Member
But Valve also wants to increase prices in Russia (or even cancel regional pricing policy), so piracy will rise again significantly =( GOG and GMG already did that, so i don't buy from them anymore
j0hnny_385
Member
What about non-affiliated key stores like G2A, G2PLAY/Kinguin, SimplyCDKeys, ...?
Those guys buy physical, retail games and then sell you the Steam/Origin/Uplay key for a very good price. Are they doomed now or...?
I've used G2PLAY for the last two years without a problem for major AAA releases (AC:U, DA:I, Thief, ...) and it worked flawlessly. Really happy with the service.
The price I paid for those games was usually 22-30 EUR (compared to 59.99 EUR here in the EU).
Those guys buy physical, retail games and then sell you the Steam/Origin/Uplay key for a very good price. Are they doomed now or...?
I've used G2PLAY for the last two years without a problem for major AAA releases (AC:U, DA:I, Thief, ...) and it worked flawlessly. Really happy with the service.
The price I paid for those games was usually 22-30 EUR (compared to 59.99 EUR here in the EU).
Gabe gets both cakes and eats them too while we get nothing. And people are happy looool.
dmix90
Member
damnit dmix90...we had some good times together
Thanks for everything dmix
Oh hey! What's goi............ Great news in the morning.
Windom Earle
Member
Can someone explain how it works on a technical level compared to now? I don't get it.
Uncle Rupee
Banned
They should make it so if you buy the game from a foreign country that is the language you are stuck with. Enjoy your Russian game!
Windom Earle
Member
I was somehow under the impression that games were already region locked to some extent and required VPN to unlock. So this won't work anymore I guess.
They've done this for a few games but it isn't really effective, people just get the english language files.
What games are being restricted?
GhostTrick
Banned
Uts just because if the rubble.
Seriously guys, games value dropped liked a rock. The Witcher 3 is like 9 euros !
That's totally understandable that they prevent people to exploit the crash of a currency.
They dont want the market to be flooded with 15 euros AAA titles.
Seriously guys, games value dropped liked a rock. The Witcher 3 is like 9 euros !
That's totally understandable that they prevent people to exploit the crash of a currency.
They dont want the market to be flooded with 15 euros AAA titles.
Every game bought in certain regions.
IdreamofHIME
Member
Seems like a panic move with the Ruble on a nose dive into the gutter. By the time the big 2015 Q1 releases hit you could probably pick them up for like $1.
I love a good rage against evil corporations but this is sort of necessary. It'd be the same as Origin closing the mexico/india loopholes. If two products are being sold at disparate prices, someone will fill in the gap and start siphoning off money. This is the best solution to a crappy situation.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
Help me understand why corporations can take advantage of a global economy but block consumers from doing the same.
It's a service you agree to use, not a physical product. Full stop.
I think most reasonable people can agree that $50-60USD is an appropriate price for a new release game.
I really don't understand how someone could complain about prices being appropriately reduced in certain countries to make games equitably accessible. If everyone buys at that reduced price, the economics break down.
Jacking up prices in markets like Australia is a completely different issue but on the whole, regional pricing is not the devil and is in fact the only way to make products available in certain markets.
Bboy AJ
My dog was murdered by a 3.5mm audio port and I will not rest until the standard is dead
That's not a real reason. That's just a tired response. You aren't addressing the argument, only that the business requires people to agree to a ridiculous provision. Defend the provision, not the required agreement.
Again, corporations take advantage of a global economy. Why can't I do the same? It's a win for the business but why can't consumers do the same?
Well, Indonesia's default regional price is pretty low too, though I don't know if its comparable to Russia's. For example, Valkyria Chronicles is priced RP135000 here, roughly equivalent of $10 by current conversion rate.
I'm not suprised if they include Indonesia as well as a measure.
not_so_special
Banned
everytime any of you whined about a game not being on steam ( elite dangerous) and thats the reason to no buy i loled
really people want steam to be a "monopoly"?? if history have teached anything is about how monopolies are horrible,why valve will be different?
so these evil corporations will pay their indian or indonesian workers better no?
there is people for everything i suppose
really people want steam to be a "monopoly"?? if history have teached anything is about how monopolies are horrible,why valve will be different?
so these evil corporations will pay their indian or indonesian workers better no?
there is people for everything i suppose
1) Newly-purchased gift copies of games bought from the stores of these regions are region-locked at the activation level and can only be redeemed by those in the region in question -- for example, a game bought in Eastern Europe can only be added to a user's library if they themselves are in Eastern Europe also.
2) Similarly, spare gift copies earned by activating a two-pack/four-pack/etc. key will also be region-locked if the key was activated by someone in one of the regions listed in the link above. The flag that Valve uses to region-lock games at the activation level otherwise has no effect on retail keys, nor does it have any effect on a user's ability to actually run the game.
GhostTrick
Banned
They don't when it's reasonable. Do you think that grabbing the latest games for 9 when they're sold for 50 is reasonable ?
https://steamdb.info/app/292030/
The alternative here is to have one worldwide price. A price that would be much, much higher than what Steam currently offers in several markets. The whole idea behind Steam and combating piracy was to avoid pricing problems by making games available at a reasonable rate in local currency.
Steam suddenly enforces this on a software level and people flip out because they can't use loopholes to buy cheap games anymore.
Because that would kill the industry. Do you honestly think that evereveryone should be able to buy TW3 for 9 euro?
The "global economy" you keep referring to also means someone can buy a Coke in Africa for 50 cents but costs me 3 bucks. Expecting to be able to pay the rock bottom global price for everything in your local market is simply unfeasible.
j0hnny_385
Member
You could defend any type of region locking by this argument.
"Oh well, UK sells games + Blurays for way cheaper than for example in France + Germany, so it's totally fair to region lock it"
But when jobs are outsourced and people doing the exact same job in India or China are paid way less, then that's totally fine.
Why don't those companies simply shut down their stores in those countries or keep prices at a level, where it's okay. Sure, less people will buy them, but that's their own problem.
not_so_special
Banned
this will bring more piracy,steam games arent available at reasonable rate on europe if you ask me,60 euros for a new game,same as consoles on a physical store
This is some truly ignorant shit. Yeah fuck those people in developing nations. They should be forced to pay top dollar so you don't feel like anyone's getting a better deal than you.
Every game that released on Steam will be available everywhere, and if the publishers didn't set their own regional, it will be given a default price tag that roughly on the same equivalent. At least that what's happened here in Indonesia, where Ubisoft and 2K released titles have their price that actually close to US price after conversion, while most titles, especially indies are at default price that makes them almost half the US price.