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AMD | Bulldozer, Fusion, AM3+, FM1, and What's To Come

1-D_FTW

Member
Refreshment.01 said:
Ok, they shine when overclocked but how easy it is? What would be the point if one would need a 50 heat sink to get some good OC out of it?

Edit: When does Intel's latest process reduction kicks in as well as the new 3D transistor tech?

3D is supposed to be with Ivy Bridge.
 

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
Refreshment.01 said:
Ok, they shine when overclocked but how easy it is? What would be the point if one would need a 50 heat sink to get some good OC out of it?
It can run on air but with a good aftermarket cooler I assume. The fact that they compare to a 3.8 turbo boosted 2500k kinda handicapped that. I easily run mine at 4.5ghz. Haven't tried to go higher because its 4.5ghz :p
 

Datschge

Member
Gvaz said:
Wait....people actually listen to Linus?
He does control Linux.

Anyway new memory layout needs optimization in the OS' scheduler, not running perfectly without such updates, news at eleven...
 
1-D_FTW said:
3D is supposed to be with Ivy Bridge.
So we are talking at the ending of first quarter/beginning of second? Looks like the consumers have some tough choices for the upgrade path.

Things have been crazy lately. In the dark with the next video cards also, only one who deliver for the enthusiast was Intel at the beginning of this year.
LiquidMetal14 said:
It can run on air but with a good aftermarket cooler I assume. The fact that they compare to a 3.8 turbo boosted 2500k kinda handicapped that. I easily run mine at 4.5ghz. Haven't tried to go higher because its 4.5ghz :p
I seem to recall reviews where praising how well 2500k and 2600k overcloacked even with the stock cooler. So like i said if what you save by going with AMD is lost with the need to get a beast of a cooler, then there's not much insentive.
 

1-D_FTW

Member
Refreshment.01 said:
So we are talking at the ending of first quarter/beginning of second? Looks like the consumers have some tough choices for the upgrade path.

Things have been crazy lately. In the dark with the next video cards also, only one who deliver for the enthusiast was Intel at the beginning of this year.

I seem to recall reviews where praising how well 2500k and 2600k overcloacked even with the stock cooler. So like i said if what you save by going with AMD is lost with the need to get a beast of a cooler, then there's not much insentive.

That's the current outlook.

I think as long as AMD/Nvidia get their new GPU architecture out by then, they'll be able to capitalize on a lot of new builds happening then.
 
trilobyte said:
I'm going to do an HTPC build with the llano in a few days, let's see how it goes :)

Llano is amazing. My Asus K53TA's wimpy A6-3400m overclocked from 1.4 Ghz to 2.8 Ghz stable - in a fucking laptop. It cost $450, has Crossfire 6650m + 6520m, and has 4.5 hour battery life.

Llano = awesome, Trinity should be mindblowing.
 

zeelman

Member
BoobPhysics101 said:
Llano is amazing. My Asus K53TA's wimpy A6-3400m overclocked from 1.4 Ghz to 2.8 Ghz stable - in a fucking laptop. It cost $450, has Crossfire 6650m + 6520m, and has 4.5 hour battery life.

Llano = awesome, Trinity should be mindblowing.

I got a Gateway NV55S02u with that processor, how did you get it to overclock like that? I can't seem to find any guides for overclocking it that much, and I also have no idea how to activate Crossfire.
 
Not sure if some of you remember when I posted about Hi Cookie being one of the first to eclipse the 5GHz mark with an air cooled i7 2600K ES (5.2GHz in very late Sept 2010), but he's recently gone above 8GHz using LN2, on what's supposedly a "non-cherry picked" FX-8150.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2040266

http://gigabytedaily.blogspot.com/2011/10/hicookie-hits-8ghz-on-ln2-with-amd.html?spref=tw

WWQpl.png


That's compared to AMD's "all day long" 7GHz run of an FX-8150 on LN2 (playing Starcraft 2 and Battlefield 3), and their 8.4GHz FX-8150 world record on LHe.



Some more reviews seem to be leaking from different sites. No time to try and verify their validity, but if no one posts any before I do, I'll put them up when I have a moment.

xV2aP.jpg

oOrZi.jpg

rVb9a.jpg

rH2QY.jpg

0nVrW.jpg

AMh8n.jpg

t8xs4.jpg

f8ls9.jpg

q0Lw9.jpg
 
zeelman said:
I got a Gateway NV55S02u with that processor, how did you get it to overclock like that? I can't seem to find any guides for overclocking it that much, and I also have no idea how to activate Crossfire.

I use K10Stat. It's a really nice program for Llano. The mobile processors have unlocked multipliers.
 

n0n44m

Member
·feist· said:
Not sure if some of you remember when I posted about Hi Cookie being one of the first to eclipse the 5GHz mark with an air cooled i7 2600K ES (5.2GHz in very late Sept 2010), but he's recently gone above 8GHz using LN2, on what's supposedly a "non-cherry picked" FX-8150.

still hard to judge IMHO if it is really going to scale well (i.e. much better than Intel SB) beyond 5ghz with air/water ... I mean all the LN2 runs basically prove is that there is no coldbug/it likes freezing temperatures :p

but I guess I'll see some more "realistic" results when I wake up tomorrow ;)
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
With the 12th being pinned as a possible NDA lift/launch date I think I can wait and see. No harm in posting though.
 

Mudkips

Banned
Do we expect new motherboards to spring up in the very near future as well?
Or is the Crosshair V the go-to choice?
And do they support BD out of the box?
 
Mudkips said:
Do we expect new motherboards to spring up in the very near future as well?
Or is the Crosshair V the go-to choice?
And do they support BD out of the box?
More than likely, though it appears the lion's share has already been released. I'd expect revisions, some additional 970s, possibly some 870/880 AM3+ models (for those who want a basic iGPU, but need more compute power than Llano offers), and whatever else.

The Sabertooth has received very high marks from most users, but that was going by Phenom II X4 and X6 results. Posted various motherboard reviews some pages ago, but I didn't bother with any until some things are unearthed.


n0n44m said:
still hard to judge IMHO if it is really going to scale well (i.e. much better than Intel SB) beyond 5ghz with air/water ... I mean all the LN2 runs basically prove is that there is no coldbug/it likes freezing temperatures :p

but I guess I'll see some more "realistic" results when I wake up tomorrow ;)
At their 7GHz event, AMD mentioned ~4.6GHz+ on air, and ~5.0GHz+ on water. They've also claimed 4.8-5GHz+ on high end air, or better, for retail parts. I definitely want to see what B2s will realistic, and safely hit 24/7, compared to rumored B3s/C_s.

Still, realistic or not, it's hard to argue with 8GHz... even if it has essentially no real world benefit for most people.

http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=2040532

sMqNj.png



Hazaro said:
With the 12th being pinned as a possible NDA lift/launch date I think I can wait and see. No harm in posting though.
These are only pictures:

AMD FX: CPU
http://udteam.tistory.com/435
AMD FX: Mobo
http://udteam.tistory.com/434

Review precursor and benches below. The reviewer claims he has some super secret exclusive as to why single threaded performance is the way it is. Presumably, he's going to wait until the major tech sites post their reviews before he release this secret knowledge. If it's just the same issues many of us have been discussing for the last 6-12 months, or more, I'll laugh.

AMD FX "Bulldozer" - Part 1 (Kor)
http://udteam.tistory.com/438







 
They wasted no time, I still might build an AMD solely because AMD supports their sockets much longer than Intel. Every time I buy Intel I always feel burned by them lol.
 

trilobyte

Member
BoobPhysics101 said:
Llano is amazing. My Asus K53TA's wimpy A6-3400m overclocked from 1.4 Ghz to 2.8 Ghz stable - in a fucking laptop. It cost $450, has Crossfire 6650m + 6520m, and has 4.5 hour battery life.

Llano = awesome, Trinity should be mindblowing.

Yeah I can't wait to see Trinity in action next year. That's my next upgrade for the HTPC I'm building (iff I can pair it with a better low-profile radeon)

Here's my Llano build for my HTPC:

CPU: A8-3850 2.9G
Motherboard: Biostar A5MH A7
GPU (dual graphics): Radeon HD6570 2GB
Memory: 4GB DDR3-1600
HDD: 120GB Solid State Drive
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
I browsed [H] and canucks.
This is a good summary for people. Made an image summery. Not included in the chart is a 8150 system uses 90W more at load and 15W more at idle. Hopefully new mobos will lessen that, but it seem surprising considering all the power saving stuff they mentioned. 1155 power saving is really something though.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...md-bulldozer-fx-8150-processor-review-20.html
8FNV7.jpg



Near worst case scenario. Wattage seems to be around 20-50W extra normal load. 50W+ different gaming.
BuPEd.jpg
 

AwesomeSauce

MagsMoonshine
[H] review is showing that the FX 8150 @ 4.6ghz is about equal to a 2500k @ 4.8ghz in F1 2011 & BF3. Civilization V has a huge intel advantage.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Here's what I think went down.

Delay delay delay, troubles happened, they NEEDED to launch a product. Cranked the shit outta voltage and upped the speed to be near competitive.

There is no way the designed the chips to consume that much more power than their competitor, they aren't nVidia.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Lactose_Intolerant said:
It only consumes 9W more on idle, but yeah, looks like they had troubles with Global Foundries and had to pull an nvidia.
I'm on my 5th review and idle on average is much more than that. Funnily enough the only one so far that that is not large is bittech which is ripping in every other fashion.

Really though, it comes down to the future of computing. Scalability and hopefully a revised version of BD will force Intel into more cores which down the line will mean and be everything.

I really hope they learned a lot from this release and they can get video encoding as their strong suit at the very least in the upcoming time frame before Ivy hits.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
JAFAR said:
I'm surprised by the reviews. I assumed this was going to be a game changer.
I and a lot of others have been extremely skeptical for months on how it would run on current system with it's new modules/cores after 2 major delays.
 

Mudkips

Banned
Hazaro said:
Here's what I think went down.

Delay delay delay, troubles happened, they NEEDED to launch a product. Cranked the shit outta voltage and upped the speed to be near competitive.

There is no way the designed the chips to consume 90W more than their competitor, they aren't nVidia.

It is indeed designed to consume a lot more power, simply because it's still on a 32nm process. Until Global Foundries can get a handle on smaller sizes, power consumption is going to be high. For a desktop part though, it's not that big of a deal.

Looks like no one got a chance to test the water cooler thing in time for publishing.
One site mentioned it would be about $100. I lold.
The price advantage is absolutely gone if you do that.

I'll wait for anandtech's review (and until shit goes on sale) before making a final decision. I still believe BD is great for what it's designed to do, but I'll probably get whatever the 2600K (no I'm not waiting for E or IvyBridge). Of course this means a more expensive CPU, and a bit more expensive motherboard, but it's not that big of a difference if you factor in the $100 for the water cooler shit (because let's face it - if I go with the Bulldozer I'm going to get that).

Got my case, PSU, and RAM today, and it's ready for a CPU and mobo (and the SSDs and blu ray drive, but they should be here tomorrow - first time Amazon Prime failed to 2-day me).

It's basically a question of whether or not I really plan to stream while gaming.
I'm definitely in the group that benefits from plenty of multi-threaded performance. I run daily, full-system, encrypted backups at 6PM when I get home (prime gaming hours) I encode, I would like to stream but probably not regularly, and I skype video chat/google+ hangout while playing with friends. But a 2600K just has better performance during less crowded workloads (which is > 50% of the time).

Have any of these sites said when Bulldozer (and the water cooler) would be available to buy? If it's really $240 + $100, and it's not available to buy within the next 26 hours, then I'm almost certainly going for a 2600K.

Bulldozer is still the clear winner for truly multi-threaded use, but if there's no driver / scheduler update for Windows 7 a good chunk of that performance is lost (as shown in all of the reviews) when related threads cross modules (preventing idling and turbo core speed ups, as well as fucking over cache). Haven't seen any of the reviews really mention any upcoming improvements though, (we did have that blurb about the Linux kernel patch). I'm hoping Anandtech covers this (and the watercooler) in more depth.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Mudkips said:
It is indeed designed to consume a lot more power, simply because it's still on a 32nm process. Until Global Foundries can get a handle on smaller sizes, power consumption is going to be high. For a desktop part though, it's not that big of a deal.

Looks like no one got a chance to test the water cooler thing in time for publishing.
One site mentioned it would be about $100. I lold.
The price advantage is absolutely gone if you do that.

I'll wait for anandtech's review (and until shit goes on sale) before making a final decision. I still believe BD is great for what it's designed to do, but I'll probably get whatever the 2600K (no I'm not waiting for E or IvyBridge). Of course this means a more expensive CPU, and a bit more expensive motherboard, but it's not that big of a difference if you factor in the $100 for the water cooler shit (because let's face it - if I go with the Bulldozer I'm going to get that).

Got my case, PSU, and RAM today, and it's ready for a CPU and mobo (and the SSDs and blu ray drive, but they should be here tomorrow - first time Amazon Prime failed to 2-day me).

It's basically a question of whether or not I really plan to stream while gaming.
I'm definitely in the group that benefits from plenty of multi-threaded performance. I run daily, full-system, encrypted backups at 6PM when I get home (prime gaming hours) I encode, I would like to stream but probably not regularly, and I skype video chat/google+ hangout while playing with friends. But a 2600K just has better performance during less crowded workloads (which is > 50% of the time).

Have any of these sites said when Bulldozer (and the water cooler) would be available to buy? If it's really $240 + $100, and it's not available to buy within the next 26 hours, then I'm almost certainly going for a 2600K.
I've heard 22nm is going fine now. Special inside source :)

I haven't heard street date mentioned yet. As you said one review stated $100 for the cooler which seems way too much considering Corsair's water options atm.
One of the websites that tested said they received the water cooler hours before the review went up so maybe the WC package isn't ready yet.

I was also one of those people who didn't care much about power usage but seeing 3+ reviews that have load power 90W+ more just shows that this isn't a finished product. It really is unfortunate.

*Tweaktown said AMD only launched the 8120 and 8150 today? I want my 4120/4150 benches. :[
**8150 is faster than 2600K in TrueCrypt in MB/s but barely.
 
Hazaro said:
I'm on my 5th review and idle on average is much more than that. Funnily enough the only one so far that that is not large is bittech which is ripping in every other fashion.

Really though, it comes down to the future of computing. Scalability and hopefully a revised version of BD will force Intel into more cores which down the line will mean and be everything.

I really hope they learned a lot from this release and they can get video encoding as their strong suit at the very least in the upcoming time frame before Ivy hits.

Tom's hardware link that is like 2 posts above yours shows in windows 8 all the stuff works correctly basically. So when windows 8 comes out, you will start saving money when you idle. :)
 

TheExodu5

Banned
I might as well just quote myself since people weren't believing me last week:

TheExodu5 said:
8 physical cores performing below a 2600? That does not bode well for 1/2 thread applications like Starcraft 2 one bit.

It's quad core performance is going to be roughly in line with an AMD Phenom II X4 965, which means it's not going to be an upgrade at all for gaming for many AMD owners.

TheExodu5 said:
It will be the case. Cut the numbers of cores used in half, and the bench results are 4300 or so. A little more if Passmark has some multithreading overhead. This CPU is barely going to be an upgrade for Phenom X4 owners for gaming. We'll see when the game benchmarks release.

Truth be told, the situation is far worse than I thought. This barely seems to be an upgrade over Phenom X6, and I have no idea why anyone would get this over a 2500K, considering the 2500K is cheaper.
 

demigod

Member
lol, I smelled trouble when they delayed bulldozer to Oct. Glad I built a new comp with I7 2600k, no regrets. AMD has been dead to me for years, since Athlon 4200s.
 

Hazaro

relies on auto-aim
Lactose_Intolerant said:
Tom's hardware link that is like 2 posts above yours shows in windows 8 all the stuff works correctly basically. So when windows 8 comes out, you will start saving money when you idle. :)
8W less isn't going to make up for the giant gaps I'm seeing until Win 8 comes out.
TheExodu5 said:
I might as well just quote myself since people weren't believing me last week.
Truth be told, the situation is far worse than I thought. This barely seems to be an upgrade over Phenom X6, and I have no idea why anyone would get this over a 2500K, considering the 2500K is cheaper.
For you.
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/foru...amd-bulldozer-fx-8150-processor-review-3.html
 
Well there goes any hope I had for Bulldozer. Sitting pretty on my x3 720 right now and will upgrade to a 2500k sometime next year when I feel the need. Worse than the Phenom II is just wrong though, can't wait to see the AnandTech review on BD.
 
[H]ardOCP again, as they split their review into two parts.

Mudkips said:

Bjorn3D
http://www.bjorn3d.com/articles/AMD_FX-8150_CPU_Bulldozer/2125.html

ComputerBase
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/prozessoren/2011/test-amd-bulldozer/

Expert Reviews
http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/processors/1287799/amd-fx-8150

ExtraHardware
http://extrahardware.cnews.cz/amd-fx-8150-6100-bulldozer-zambezi-recenze-test?page=0,3

[H]ardOCP
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/11/amd_bulldozer_fx8150_desktop_performance_review
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/10/11/amd_bulldozer_fx8150_gameplay_performance_review/

Hardware.fr
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/842-1/amd-fx-8150-fx-6100-bulldozer-debarque-am3.html

HardwareHeaven
http://www.hardwareheaven.com/revie...sor-vs-core-i7-2600k-review-introduction.html

Hexus
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/32110-amd-bulldozer-fx-8150/

Hi Tech Legion
http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/processors/13752

Inpai
http://www.inpai.com.cn/doc/hard/158965.htm

KitGuru
http://www.kitguru.net/components/c...ition-8-core-review-with-gigabyte-990fxa-ud7/

Legion Hardware
http://www.legionhardware.com/articles_pages/amd_fx_8150fx_8120fx_6100_and_fx_4170,1.html

LegitReviews
http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1741/1/

Lostcircuits
http://www.lostcircuits.com/mambo//index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=102&Itemid=1

Madshrimps
http://www.madshrimps.be/articles/article/1000220/AMD-FX-8150-Bulldozer-CPU-review#axzz1aKr1ZQF4

Neoseeker
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Reviews/amd_fx-8150/

PC Perspective
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Proces...ssor-Review-Can-Bulldozer-Unearth-AMD-Victory

PureOverclock
http://www.pureoverclock.com/article1376.html

Tech Station
http://www.techstation.it/hardware/articoli/amd-fx-il-ritorno-al-vertice/introduzione

TechwareLabs
http://www.techwarelabs.com/amd-fx-8150-bulldozer-8-core-cpu/

Tom's Hardware
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8150-zambezi-bulldozer-990fx,3043.html

Tweak Town
http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4348/amd_fx_8150_am3_3_6ghz_bulldozer_cpu_review/index.html
 

teh_pwn

"Saturated fat causes heart disease as much as Brawndo is what plants crave."
Ouch. Sandy bridge beats it in both performance and power...by quite a bit.

I was hoping for strong competition at mid range/enthusiast. Oh well, I'll keep buying AMD's video cards.

Looking at Ivy Bridge being a very slight bump, I'm afraid the age of Moore's law may be closing. I didn't think it would happen until 2030, but throwing more cores at CPUs isn't as effective as GPUs.
 

Mudkips

Banned
Alright Hazaro, pick me out a motherboard for my 2600K.

It needs to have a PCI slot (for my wireless card), and 2 6gbps SATA ports (with RAID 0).
Don't give a shit about quicksync so I don't need the Z68 (though it seems a lot of the P67 boards don't have a PCI slot).

Would also enjoy a board that has a USB 3.0 header, or even a port on the board itself (I've seen a few USB 2.0 ports on boards). As you probably know, the case I have (600T) has a USB front panel port, but the damned lead for it isn't a 20-pin motherboard connector, it's just a standard USB connetcor they expect you to route through the back of the case and plug into the I/O backplate.

Good overclocking capabilities would be appreciated muchly.

Currently comparing a handful of them, (most of them being Z68s) such as...

ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131753
ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131702
MSI Z68A-GD80 (G3) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130610
GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3-iSSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128505
MSI Z68A-GD80 (B3) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130597
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157263

The Maximus IV is out of the question since it's eATX (ATX-XL or whatever) and won't fit.
 
TheExodu5 said:
Here is the worst case scenario:



And a game more people care about:



AMD still can't pull off 60fps in SC2. For shame.
Those differences are just embarrassing, let alone the power consumption as well. GG AMD.
 

a176

Banned
I just can't believe the thrashing bulldozer is getting in virtually all games. Any slight price reduction on the 2500k would spell complete disaster for amd.

Mudkips said:
Alright Hazaro, pick me out a motherboard for my 2600K.

It needs to have a PCI slot (for my wireless card), and 2 6gbps SATA ports (with RAID 0).
Don't give a shit about quicksync so I don't need the Z68 (though it seems a lot of the P67 boards don't have a PCI slot).

Would also enjoy a board that has a USB 3.0 header, or even a port on the board itself (I've seen a few USB 2.0 ports on boards). As you probably know, the case I have (600T) has a USB front panel port, but the damned lead for it isn't a 20-pin motherboard connector, it's just a standard USB connetcor they expect you to route through the back of the case and plug into the I/O backplate.

Good overclocking capabilities would be appreciated muchly.

Currently comparing a handful of them, (most of them being Z68s) such as...

ASUS P8Z68 Deluxe http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131753
ASUS SABERTOOTH P67 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131702
MSI Z68A-GD80 (G3) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130610
GIGABYTE GA-Z68XP-UD3-iSSD http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128505
MSI Z68A-GD80 (B3) http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130597
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157263

The Maximus IV is out of the question since it's eATX (ATX-XL or whatever) and won't fit.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131759
+
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833320071
 
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