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An important statement from Naughty Dog
- Thread starter Kenzodielocke
- Start date
Obviously a tweet proves nothing but this is a tweet I saw from after David left Naughty Dog.
It would seem to me from this that he didn't really have any issue with Naughty Dog as a company. A scan of his timeline shows many supportive tweets of them and some of his ex-colleagues too, including people high up in the company. On this basis it doesn't seem to me like Naughty Dog were involved in a mass cover-up because if it caused him this much distress surely he would have some big issues with them and people involved there? If David is telling the truth about sexual harassment it seems like a big failing on Sony's HR department above all else. However, it's probably best not to speculate too much. I don't want to believe David would make this up, I don't want to believe Naughty Dog has a sexual harassment problem and I don't want to believe Sony would refuse to investigate. Hopefully somebody gets to the bottom of what did or didn't happen.
That tweet means nothing. He has to say something like that if he is about to go on a job hunt. That's one of the reasons victims stay quiet.
People have been huffing and puffing for the last 24 hours asking what has been taking them so long. Everyone has different expectations it seems.
Obviously a tweet proves nothing but this is a tweet I saw from after David left Naughty Dog.
It would seem to me from this that he didn't really have any issue with Naughty Dog as a company. A scan of his timeline shows many supportive tweets of them and some of his ex-colleagues too, including people high up in the company. On this basis it doesn't seem to me like Naughty Dog were involved in a mass cover-up because if it caused him this much distress surely he would have some big issues with them and people involved there? If David is telling the truth about sexual harassment it seems like a big failing on Sony's HR department above all else. However, it's probably best not to speculate too much. I don't want to believe David would make this up, I don't want to believe Naughty Dog has a sexual harassment problem and I don't want to believe Sony would refuse to investigate. Hopefully somebody gets to the bottom of what did or didn't happen.
This doesn't mean anything. You had people thanking Harvey Weinstein even after they were sexually assaulted by him. Power dynamics are real. You still got to eat at the end of the day.
Someone fucked up here. We need to see what develops from here.
CaviarMeths
Member
For the record, to everyone expecting hard, physical evidence to be produced before any of this is taken seriously, that is not the case in 99.9% of sexual harassment cases. That evidence, obviously, most likely does not exist and never did. There's no smoking gun. You know it and it's unreasonable to expect it. That expectation is what keeps the majority of harassment cases from being reported, and the majority of those that do get reported ending with nothing.
But cool news - there are other forms of evidence that are admissible. The most solid form of evidence available in this case will be David's testimony and any corroborative statements from other employees. It was brought up in the other thread that David wasn't the first person harassed and he likely wasn't the last either.
But cool news - there are other forms of evidence that are admissible. The most solid form of evidence available in this case will be David's testimony and any corroborative statements from other employees. It was brought up in the other thread that David wasn't the first person harassed and he likely wasn't the last either.
1. If they have no record of the even, they can't have knowledge of it. They can't just make stuff up to fill in the blanks
2. They can't intend to reach out to the victim. As has been explained several times in this thread, the idea of them doing that is crazy.
3. Unless they've got evidence their HR department has fucked up, why would they throw their current employees under the bus for something that might not be their fault?
Obviously a tweet proves nothing but this is a tweet I saw from after David left Naughty Dog.
It would seem to me from this that he didn't really have any issue with Naughty Dog as a company. A scan of his timeline shows many supportive tweets of them and some of his ex-colleagues too, including people high up in the company. On this basis it doesn't seem to me like Naughty Dog were involved in a mass cover-up because if it caused him this much distress surely he would have some big issues with them and people involved there? If David is telling the truth about sexual harassment it seems like a big failing on Sony's HR department above all else. However, it's probably best not to speculate too much. I don't want to believe David would make this up, I don't want to believe Naughty Dog has a sexual harassment problem and I don't want to believe Sony would refuse to investigate. Hopefully somebody gets to the bottom of what did or didn't happen.
He's not mad at the company or a lot of the employees there. He's most likely still friends or friendly with a lot of them. It was a horrible experience with one person. He never vilified the company itself.
ronaldthump
Member
TheGreatMightyPoo
Banned
I'm not indicting anyone for a massive cover-up. Maybe some people are but I feel like my responses are level-headed. I'm going to try to believe the accuser and hope that corroboration of his story by others could open things up in lieu of hard evidence which is rare in these cases.
holy shit!...come on, you simply dont understand how any of this works...youre asking ND/Sony to commit legal suicide, even if the allegations are 100% true, there is NO WAY they are going to word a PR statement like you want them to...
they will NEVER reach out to the alleged victim...EVER, that would open them up to all sorts of legal ramifications..
sorry, i dont mean to come off as if im claiming the guy is lying...its just that many people here are saying things about the situation with very little understanding of how any of this process works
Jawbreaker
Member
Why? It's possible for harassment to have taken place without any official record of a complaint.
Sad Affleck
Member
Gemüsepizza;252081302 said:
That's why I said that the only way this moves forward is if others support David with their own reports of similar incidents. My guess is that David is hoping for a similar outcome to the Weinstein case where other victims are encouraged to come forward.
Brotherhood93
Member
No, he doesn't. You think somebody is not going to hire him just because there is no tweet about his ex-employers on his timeline? He could have said nothing or something less sentimental. Like I said it's followed up by lots of positive tweets about ND after leaving the company too.
I'm not saying that particular tweet is evidence of anything. I've never been sexually harassed but I can't imagine somebody continuing to publicly praise a company and it's employees after they treated you so badly (allegedly). I believe it's entirely likely he was harassed by somebody at Naughty Dog, and can believe the HR stuff, but it seems less probable there was a major issue within Naughty Dog as a company based on his positivity towards them after leaving.
ButteryPie
Member
Very poor form and very disheartening. I can only hope that other publishers and developers in this industry become more proactive and safe than "Protect Your Own."
This is an incredibly weak statement.
This is an incredibly weak statement.
JigglesBunny
Banned
Making a statement was the right move, making this statement wasnt. This reads like an immediate dismissal of the claims and thats a bad look.
Theres a culture surrounding all of these massive entertainment giants that aim to simply pull a curtain over the seedy underbelly of abuses of power like sexual harassment and its long overdue that these systems come crumbling down. Massive companies will continue to craft carefully worded press releases that attempt to dismiss whatever claim of wrongdoing is being leveled against them but its not up to them how these incidents are remembered - its up to the courageous individuals who speak up about their experiences and furthermore, up to us as consumers to decide how to handle our business with these companies going forward.
It really has been an open secret in these industries that there are sinister predatory figures looking to prey on people under them in the corporate totempole and hopefully, like were seeing here, the victims feel emboldened and strengthened by others who are coming forward and we can systematically work towards bringing down each and every sick predator who has abused their power for so long.
Massive respect and love to David Ballard - hopefully he feels the massive amount of support behind him and can begin working towards recovering from the damage this caused. Remember - change begins with us, love and support for those who speak out and swift condemnation for the offenders is the only way we can truly begin to foster a new, safe culture in these industries.
Theres a culture surrounding all of these massive entertainment giants that aim to simply pull a curtain over the seedy underbelly of abuses of power like sexual harassment and its long overdue that these systems come crumbling down. Massive companies will continue to craft carefully worded press releases that attempt to dismiss whatever claim of wrongdoing is being leveled against them but its not up to them how these incidents are remembered - its up to the courageous individuals who speak up about their experiences and furthermore, up to us as consumers to decide how to handle our business with these companies going forward.
It really has been an open secret in these industries that there are sinister predatory figures looking to prey on people under them in the corporate totempole and hopefully, like were seeing here, the victims feel emboldened and strengthened by others who are coming forward and we can systematically work towards bringing down each and every sick predator who has abused their power for so long.
Massive respect and love to David Ballard - hopefully he feels the massive amount of support behind him and can begin working towards recovering from the damage this caused. Remember - change begins with us, love and support for those who speak out and swift condemnation for the offenders is the only way we can truly begin to foster a new, safe culture in these industries.
Brian_FETO
Banned
If the claims are true then I have to imagine the victim is trying more to have others speak up and build a bigger case that way vs. simply getting his story proven
He started off by saying the company tried to cover it up so I seriously doubt he expected anything on their end
He started off by saying the company tried to cover it up so I seriously doubt he expected anything on their end
Why should they not mention that they haven't found any records? Without that it would look like they take zero action for no reason
There's nothing wrong with them defending themselves against an allegation unless you already believe they're guilty
Yearsoflurking
Member
So they calling him a liar? This a serious stance to take. I'm interested in seeing the resolution to this, seems like they did this quickly without due diligence
It hasnt even been 24 hours since the original tweet. This was too fast and coupled with the flat denial makes it look like ND just wants it to go away. Waiting until Monday and with a more sensitively worded response would have gone a long way. It also would have positioned ND itself better, in the event the allegations are true and Ballard can provide any corroboration, or if more victims come forward, they now look like the bad guy rather than being able to shift that to bad actors within the company.
esmith08734
Member
Curious, what's considered a 'good' statement from a company in a situation like this?
Yea my original comment was directed at some of the posts doing that, probably wasn't yours. I just really hate the Internet Snapjudgement Bandwagon that immediately assign blame to one side or another. These cases are awful and they are also so grey that it's never simple and it needs to play out before people sharpen their pitchforks (on either side).
They didn't call him a liar. They just don't have any record of the allegations.
GHG
Member
Nobody is calling anybody a liar.
esmith08734
Member
Not directly, no. They just said there's no evidence that they can see on their end.
SliceSabre
Banned
There really isn't one but people like to think there is.
It's not too fast if they looked through their records and have no evidence. Why should they wait another day to make the same statement?
Ok, just catching up with this but wasn't the original claim that sexual harassment occurred, he reported the incident, and then was fired/payed off to silence him? There is absolutely no way this is not documented in some form as e-mail or hard copy. Even if Sony is now trying to cover it up there's no way David does not have communication from Sony at least referring to the incident.
One that doesnt imply the victim may be lying with nothing else. Think ahead.
Sad Affleck
Member
Yeah. He may have misjudged two things. First, he will get zero support from most gamers and some will be hostile towards him. Second, journalists covering the games industry will not chase such a case for fear of being cut off from the industry. He should contact some actual journalists.
Brotherhood93
Member
Sure, that was kinda my point but a lot of the discussion seems to be about Ballard vs. Naughty Dog where as the major issue, if we take both sides at their word, seems to be with the individual the claims have been made against and Sony HR's involvement.
Yearsoflurking
Member
Shouldn't this be something you should investigate internally before putting this dismal statement out? This is a serious allegation.
They completely dismissed his story by saying they have zero record of it
InfiniteCombo
Banned
This is a great way of looking at it. Thanks for your professional perspective on it!
Sephiroth503
Member
But what if they don't have a record of it?
So them going through their records isn't an investigation? If they have no record what can they investigate? Again they aren't going to call Ballard.
So people think they should've just admitted to something this big even when there's no proof it happened? the way he phrased it makes it look like he had no written proof of it happening.
Why would the people investigating this within Sony advise the company to admit it even when there's no evidence of it happening? No sane person would do such a thing.
Why would the people investigating this within Sony advise the company to admit it even when there's no evidence of it happening? No sane person would do such a thing.
ShemhazaiX
Member
Going by this thread?
"Hi guys, saw David Ballards tweets and it really seemed like he'd been wronged. We don't have any evidence that he spoke to HR or anything on our records, but you know, we'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he's right. We took a guess at who the predator was and fired him out of a cannon into the sun because we didn't have any evidence to fire him without a defamation suit. Please look forward to TLOU 2."
ronaldthump
Member
how you know they don't actually have no record of it.
Primethius
Banned
Yea, gaming journalists aren't going to do much to help him out.
Imagine if they really don't have any records of it. Should they not disclose that fact?
KingdomHeartsFan
Member
Yea that's not gonna fly when other people have backed up what David has said.
CassidyIzABeast
Member
Prime example of why victims rarely come forward. Its super easy to be dismissed especially when even an inkling of fame is involved. Sadly your best bet is to hope they were a serial harasser and somebody else comes forward.
Infinite Justice
Member
SliceSabre
Banned
Yes they checked their records and they didn't find anything because there is no record of it. What is so hard about that? It is entirely possible the harassment isn't on record.
there is nothing to investigate unfortunately...they pulled the records regarding this former employee, and do not (according to them) have any records of the employee filing a complaint...
thats it on their end, unfortunately
Damerman
Member
ND is a business, They should conduct themselves like a business, regardless of people clamoring for answers.
esmith08734
Member
The only thing they could have added was we have not found any evidence to support this claim but we take this allegation very seriously and will continue to comb through the details.
I mean, ND can only look up their HR department and check for claims. I cant see them launching an entire internal investigation in their office.
Lys Skygge
Member
To some, there isnt.
This was a fine statement for now. I imagine theyll have something a bit more substantial after further investigation.
CaviarMeths
Member
Nah, the very next sentence confirms they're committed to taking complaints of sexual harassment seriously. That's not zero action. It comes with the implication that they are looking into it, because that's what it means to take a complaint seriously. But coupled with the previous sentence that they didn't find any complaint, it just makes it come off as a dismissal. I don't get the impression that they're looking into it, because they've already said that there's nothing there.