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[Kezen]

Seems like AMD got the biggest boost.

Because of their inferior DX11 drivers compared to Nvidia.

I'm pretty sure Mantle can see further gains though

So can DX12.

it's about head to head with DX12 results at the moment.

Head to head while covering too little ground, not a good position to be in.


DX12 will definitely make PC gaming even better (more efficient, even less powerful hardware to match/outclass consoles) and AMD have to be praised for having made the first step towards low-level APIs on PC.

 

[Orayn]

This looks really, really promising. If the gains are mainly CPU related, maybe my i5 2500k can have an even more unreasonably long lifespan.

Also lol @ all the people quoting Horse Armor without realizing that he's a joker, smoker, and possibly a midnight toker.

 

[Hesemonni]

This looks really, really promising. If the gains are mainly CPU related, maybe my i5 2500k can have an even more unreasonably long lifespan.

Exactly what I'm thinking

 

[lukeskymac]

Me too, MBP 15". It's really not a bad GPU at all, I've thrown most modern games at it and it's usually above 30FPS at 1440x900 mid-low. Only thing that didn't work well was Ryse, and one game that was frustratingly borderline was Far Cry 4, giant random dips in performance.

Now imagine a port on your MBP that you plug to a box with a 980 GTX on your home. So you can use it as a standard notebook but when you are at home, it becomes a respectable gaming station.

That's what I want

 

[Bl@de]

AMD have to be praised for having made the first step towards low-level APIs on PC.

Well we could've been there sooner

Never forget

 

[The Shogun]

I am sooo ready for full DX12 GPUs later this year. Come on Nvidia bring the noise.

So far DX12 is sounding amazing

 

[Etnos]

Is this a joke post?

Well... it made laugh

 

[Kezen]

Well we could've been there sooner

Never forget

Ah. Completely forgot about glide.

Still, IMO DirectX 12 will win. Of course AMD fans will try to convince themselves otherwise but with Nvidia, Intel backing it up (instead of Mantle) ,major engines supporting it and it being cross-platform Mantle stands no chance. The fact that Mantle is everything but open drastically limits its uptake. AMD want to keep the ball for themselves and they are entitled to that but they can't complain everyone will move on and forget about their tech.

 

[Etnos]

GLNext should too, we'll see if that's up to snuff with Mantle and DX12 soon enough.

Yeah, I'm looking forward for the GLNext presentation with Valve, Epic, Unity and the Frostbite people. I celebrate a better DX, but I rather have a non proprietary multiform API taking the reigns, is better for everybody involved.

GLNext at GDC

 

[Datschge]

Still, IMO DirectX 12 will win. Of course AMD fans will try to convince themselves otherwise but with Nvidia, Intel backing it up (instead of Mantle) ,major engines supporting it and it being cross-platform Mantle stands no chance. The fact that Mantle is everything but open drastically limits its uptake. AMD want to keep the ball for themselves and they are entitled to that but they can't complain everyone will move on and forget about their tech.

Haha what?

Last October AMD already donated the Mantle sources to Kronos who are free to use any and everything of it for OpenGL Next, which will be actually cross-platform and not limited to Windows 10. No need to restart an overdone and unnecessary fanboy war about this.

 

[Kezen]

Haha what?

Last October AMD already donated the Mantle sources to Kronos who are free to use any and everything of it for OpenGL Next, which will be actually cross-platform and not limited to Windows 10. No need to restart an overdone and unnecessary fanboy war about this.

DX12 is available on Xbox One and PC. Hence my cross-platform comment.
The next revision of OpenGL might make some noise but I would not bet on it ever being as relevant as Directx 12.

W10 upgrade is free for W7 and 8 owners for a whole year. Needless to say DX12's future looks bright while Mantle's is really grim. I see no point in using it when you can have low-level efficiency on Nvidia and AMD hardware with DX12, why would devs waste their time implementing a Mantle renderer ?

I really do not have anything against AMD of course but I don't see a future for Mantle, good on them for having put pressure on both Nvidia and Microsoft but that's about it.

 

[Etnos]

Still, IMO DirectX 12 will win. Of course AMD fans will try to convince themselves otherwise but with Nvidia, Intel backing it up (instead of Mantle) ,major engines supporting it and it being cross-platform Mantle stands no chance. The fact that Mantle is everything but open drastically limits its uptake. AMD want to keep the ball for themselves and they are entitled to that but they can't complain everyone will move on and forget about their tech.

DirectX 12 will probably win because every single Microsoft software that wins does it for no other than being pre-bundled and tied up to Windows. Said so, It may "win" in the Windows only scene, will remain irrelevant everywhere else.

 

[Datschge]

DX12 is available on Xbox One and PC. Hence my cross-platform comment.

You can't be serious about this...

 

[Kezen]

You can't be serious about this...

But that's the truth. It's a great news for multiplatform developpers and should guarantee that DX12 gathers momentum quickly. A few fall 2015 games will support DX12 apparently.

DirectX 12 will probably win because every single Microsoft software that wins does it for no other than being pre-bundled and tied up to Windows. Said so, It may "win" in the Windows only scene, will remain irrelevant everywhere else.

Fair point. I'm only concerned with Windows PC gaming.

 

[mrklaw]

Two thoughts

1) this seems like it would be more advantageous for lower end CPUs like mantle was. Regular gaming level CPUs shouldn't be massively held back anyway. And how many people are going to be running a GTX980 with an i3 or AMD CPU?

2) while these improvements are interesting, it just makes me a bit sad to think how relatively inefficient DX11 was.

 

[QaaQer]

Does ARM factor into any of this mantle/dx12 talk?

 

[HarryDemeanor]

This is a travesty.

You know what's worse? I have an i5 3570k with a Hyper 212 Evo cooler attached to it.

It's not overclocked.

I'm already dead.

 

[Etnos]

But that's the truth. It's a great news for multiplatform developpers and should guarantee that DX12 gathers momentum quickly. A few fall 2015 games will support DX12 apparently.


Fair point. I'm only concerned with Windows PC gaming.

Dual platform support not equal to multi platform support, specially when you have stuff like SDL that would run in pretty much anything with a kernel.

 

[LordOfChaos]

Now imagine a port on your MBP that you plug to a box with a 980 GTX on your home. So you can use it as a standard notebook but when you are at home, it becomes a respectable gaming station.

That's what I want

Absolutely. I have plenty of CPU power and RAM to burn, it would benefit the most from a dedicated GPU.


But the port already exists - Some tests showed 90% of full performance over Thunderbolt 2, I really wish people were making affordable Thunderbolt GPU boxes. That seemed like the original vision, but it never happened.

Especially with two ports with the same bandwidth, it should be able to feed a pretty high performance GPU, and would mean I don't have to get such redundant hardware as a seperate tower with another expensive CPU , etc.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780-ti-over-thunderbolt-2

Very little sacrifice going from the huge bandwidth of PCI-E to the relatively modest (somewhere between a 2x and 4x PCIE link) of Thunderbolt.

 

[Datschge]

But that's the truth.

And the most useless kind of truth. Nobody in their right mind equates "cross-platform" with "on Xbox One and under Windows 10". =D

 

[thelastword]

We'll be able to have games that aren't possible on consoles, simply because their CPU's are so low end

Should that not be possible already. I mean how long have the i3's, i5's and i7's been on the market, for a very long time. A gaming PC always maintained a big gulf over console hardware through-out the years, but what do we have to show for that apart from the traditional spruced up higher rez graphics and better framerates on PC?

Show me the games that are maxing out the i3's, i5's and i7's on PC, where the experience is not possible on consoles in 2015? Who are these PC developers that are pushing pc hardware or attempting to max it out and set that platform apart? When you play Dragon Age or AC-Unity at 8k is the Ai better on PC on account of the far superior PC cpu's already.

 

[Kezen]

And the most useless kind of truth. Nobody in their right mind equates "cross-platform" with "on Xbox One and under Windows 10". =D

And why ?
They are different platforms under the same banner.

It's still better than being only available on GCN like Mantle, even if the latter could run on Linux.

 

[Rafterman]

Wouldn't go so far as saying R.I.P Mantle yet.

Stick a fork in it...it's done.

If even AMD cards perform better under DX12 than Mantle, or even close, there is no way in hell anyone develops for Mantel when they could just develop in DX12 and get better results for both AMD and Nvidia.

Ah. Completely forgot about glide.

Glide is exactly why I said Mantle would be dead from day one. The only difference is that Glide was actually widely used before DX/OGL killed it off, Mantle hardly got started.

 

[derExperte]

Show me the games that are maxing out the i3's, i5's and i7's on PC, where the experience is not possible on consoles in 2015?

ArmA was already mentioned and DX12 should make those kind of games easier to make/expand their scope even more. But let me guess, that doesn't count because it's not a cinematic 30fps corridor shooter with black bars.

 

[martino]

DirectX 12 will probably win because every single Microsoft software that wins does it for no other than being pre-bundled and tied up to Windows. Said so, It may "win" in the Windows only scene, will remain irrelevant everywhere else.

Question is more does most gaming pc will stay on the windows scene (with dx12 also on xone)
If so it's glnext who will be the most irrelevant here (and for me).

 

[Kezen]

Stick a fork in it...it's done.
If even AMD cards perform better under DX12 than Mantle, or even close, there is no way in hell anyone develops for Mantel when they could just develop in DX12 and get better results for both AMD and Nvidia.

And even if Mantle is faster, how faster would it need to be for devs to bother ? For Windows DX12 is the choice of reason and for Linux/Mac OpenGL....Unless you only want to sell your games to GCN owners.

Glide is exactly why I said Mantle would be dead from day one. The only difference is that Glide was actually widely used before DX/OGL killed it off, Mantle hardly got started.

In its defense Mantle has a decent number of games but I fear it needed to do much better to stand a ghost of a chance against a superior (and supported by Nvidia) solution.
I'd go as far as to say at least one third of devs having commited to Mantle only did it to better prepare themselves for Directx 12.
The Anandtech benchmarks reveal a somewhat embarrassing thing : DX12 while not even being in beta already trade blows with an API launching one year earlier. You can only wonder what it will be like when the drivers, API, tools, will be finalized.

DX12 will drastically alter the PC gaming landscape and I can't wait to see what devs do with it on PC, be it with exclusives or multiplatform games.

 

[Mr Swine]

All of this depends on how well the developers optimize DX12 for games they are making. But I would love if Blizzard added DX12 support for Starcraft 2

 

[SURGEdude]

Even if Mantle is all but dropped from everyone except AMD partners, the goal was to make AMD CPUs more competitive right? How could they be mad when all of a sudden years old parts are more competitive?

That actually can already be done via Thunderbolt

EDIT: Beaten

 

[martino]

DX12 will drastically alter the PC gaming landscape and I can't wait to see what devs do with it on PC, be it with exclusives or multiplatform games.

 

[2SeeKU]

We need more examples apart from Star Swarm to make any assumptions. DX12 does look promising however!

 

[Kezen]

Do you mind expanding ?

 

[SURGEdude]

Ah. Completely forgot about glide.

Still, IMO DirectX 12 will win. Of course AMD fans will try to convince themselves otherwise but with Nvidia, Intel backing it up (instead of Mantle) ,major engines supporting it and it being cross-platform Mantle stands no chance. The fact that Mantle is everything but open drastically limits its uptake. AMD want to keep the ball for themselves and they are entitled to that but they can't complain everyone will move on and forget about their tech.

I'm an AMD CPU/GPU owner and I could care less between Mantle or DX12. Just glad to see the improvements. I am glad Mantle came out and seemed to push for these optimizations from MS.

 

[Future PhaZe]

SLI + DX12 gon b gud

 

[Stimpack]

So what does this mean for emulation? As I understand it, emulation is incredibly cpu dependent. Will we see noticeable gains in stuff like Dolphin/PCSX2?

 

[Syf]

Please Blizzard add DX12 support to the SC2 engine, it's so horribly optimized for modern CPUs. This all looks great. I'm excited.

 

[martino]

Do you mind expanding ?

i hope for lot of physics stuff everywhere.

 

[Ape]

What time this year would be the best time to build a PC?

 

[Nzyme32]

And even if Mantle is faster, how faster would it need to be for devs to bother ? For Windows DX12 is the choice of reason and for Linux/Mac OpenGL....Unless you only want to sell your games to GCN owners.


In its defense Mantle has a decent number of games but I fear it needed to do much better to stand a ghost of a chance against a superior (and supported by Nvidia) solution.
I'd go as far as to say at least one third of devs having commited to Mantle only did it to better prepare themselves for Directx 12.
The Anandtech benchmarks reveal a somewhat embarrassing thing : DX12 while not even being in beta already trade blows with an API launching one year earlier. You can only wonder what it will be like when the drivers, API, tools, will be finalized.

DX12 will drastically alter the PC gaming landscape and I can't wait to see what devs do with it on PC, be it with exclusives or multiplatform games.

I'd have to agree with some of the other posts. DX12 is hardly "multiplatform" in a conventional sense since it is Microsoft only. It's either DX12 on Xbox running Windows 10, or DX12 on Windows 10 PC or DX12 on Window 10 phones.

Meanwhile something like OpenGL family would be a better example of "multiplatform", functioning across mobile, web and desktop platforms, despite its lack of use on consoles and decline for majority of PC gaming. If the combination of complete merging and rewrite of OpenGL & OpenGL ES in glNext is as pictured, your idea of DX12 being "multiplatform" is almost comical.

https://www.khronos.org/assets/uplo...4-siggraph-bof/OpenGL-Ecosystem-BOF_Aug14.pdf

 

[JaggedSac]

I'm an AMD CPU/GPU owner and I could care less between Mantle or DX12. Just glad to see the improvements. I am glad Mantle came out and seemed to push for these optimizations from MS.

This should be the mindset for everyone. As a gamer, the API should matter little to none. Devs will choose the one they want to use based on target platforms, performance, and dev tools. Given that DX12, glnext, and Mantle all are heading in the same direction, gamers will see the end performance gains regardless.

 

[Ultryx]

Woo I can't wait! Great numbers.

 

[lukeskymac]

Absolutely. I have plenty of CPU power and RAM to burn, it would benefit the most from a dedicated GPU.


But the port already exists - Some tests showed 90% of full performance over Thunderbolt 2, I really wish people were making affordable Thunderbolt GPU boxes. That seemed like the original vision, but it never happened.

Especially with two ports with the same bandwidth, it should be able to feed a pretty high performance GPU, and would mean I don't have to get such redundant hardware as a seperate tower with another expensive CPU , etc.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/7987/running-an-nvidia-gtx-780-ti-over-thunderbolt-2

Very little sacrifice going from the huge bandwidth of PCI-E to the relatively modest (somewhere between a 2x and 4x PCIE link) of Thunderbolt.

Yeah, I'm aware of Thunderbolt's potential, but the % loss in performance varies greatly from game to game (according to an earlier test from another site using Thunderbolt 1), so I wouldn't be really comfortable with doing that.

Alienware, on the other hand, created a port that's (apparently) the full 16 lanes of PCI-e. Alas, it's proprietary, and having to buy their notebooks to get it is a big no-no.

Perhaps by the time this rig of mine starts to let me down, the current Thunderbolt will be enough.

 

[Serandur]

Impressive, this has awesome implications for CPU performance. What's going on with the 290X in those charts though?

Anyway, I wish the Total War devs would retroactively implement DX12 in some older stuff, it desperately needs it.

 

[Angelus Errare]

None. DX12 only allows PC CPUs to catch up with console CPU efficiency. There is still no PC GPU with 8GB RAM like the PS4.

And there isn't a PS4 whose GPU has 8GB of memory either so....yea.

 

[Serandur]

What time this year would be the best time to build a PC?

Somewhere around summer to fall, depending on when specifically Intel release Skylake (6th gen) parts. At least AMD and maybe Nvidia should have new and much better stuff out then too.

 

[brain_stew]

Well this is interesting.

Despite popular belief on GAF, the shitty AMD drivers statement has always been reality and not just an internet meme. This isn't the first time this had been proven to be the case.

DirectX 12 is shaping up to be everything it promised to be. A low end quad core CPU could end up being a good choice for a budget gaming rig.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

What time this year would be the best time to build a PC?

The answer to this question is always "when you need it".

All hardware today is compatible with DX12. However, there may be new features unveiled at GDC which require new DX12, so for the entire featureset, it may be best to wait until GDC at the very least. If there are no hardware features, you could wait until the end of the year and get the "full" DX12 hardware.

 

[Faith]

I can't wait to see actual games benefit from DX12.

 

[Dmax3901]

What does this mean for the likes of my 7970 3gb?

 

[Netherscourge]

You may all thank AMD and Mantel for forcing Microsoft to make Direct X more of a "to the metal" API.

 

[Pooya]

Opengl being multiplatform doesn't seem to be very relevant in what's happening right now. 2/3 of platforms for high end games are supporting DX12. Mobile gaming? on iOS that's the primarily platform for the mobile game developers, there is Metal and it's actually attracting good support among upcoming games and that's the direction it's going there. Opengl is nice and all, being multiplatform doesn't seem to be doing any magic for it at the moment for whatever reason.