Support NeoGAF

[Eumi]

I know, but asking for money makes me uneasy, no matter who is doing it.

I donate food to a local foodbank, and there are people there who are struggling to eat who are straight up embarrassed to ask for food to eat, so this is where my unease comes from.

He's making content. People are paying him for a service.

What is the issue with people giving someone money so they can create content they want to see?

 

[Hasney]

Could someone explain to me how $2,700 per month just for patreon is unsustainable? Don't want to be a dick, appreciate I'm coming off as one though, but surely that's like $30,000 a year on its own?

Expenses come out of that as well and he buys every game he reviews.

 

[danowat]

He's making content. People are paying him for a service.

What is the issue with people giving someone money so they can create content they want to see?

Did you even read my post?, I have no issue with people paying, I have an issue with people asking.

 

[Eumi]

Did you even read my post?, I have no issue with people paying, I have an issue with people asking.

Why?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Hate to say it but throwing your entire life and income into something like YouTube (and even Twitch) seemed hasty for an emerging market relying entirely upon a company you're for the most part uninvolved with in any tangible way (beyond promotion and support).

I'm still not sure what the game plan is for people currently streaming who haven't made it large enough to form their own brand and expand or earn enough to invest and place security elsewhere. What happens when you hit 40, 50?

That said, it must suck to be caught in this situation and there's a load of creators I greatly respect. Happy to try and help out ACG but I do feel this is going to be a growing issue from hereon out.

My concern is that if this is an issue now, what are his plans for long-term viability beyond just hoping he 'makes it'. Patching up the problem with donations from users is fine for now but if he's expecting that level of support it should be made clear how he plans to get away from needing that crutch. That doesn't make asking for support a bad thing, but I think there's a level if expectation with it in trying to find yourself a way out of needing it (at least in the sense of needing to outright ask).

It's a tough situation but one that really needs consideration as time moves on, especially as users get older.

^ for discussion. Interested to hear opinions, I feel it's an important topic as these issues become more apparent. What do you guys think about the long term sustainability for those who haven't got big enough to just ride the wave?

 

[Lothars]

Did you even read my post?, I have no issue with people paying, I have an issue with people asking.

you are wrong than, there's nothing wrong with him asking because creators are getting screwed by YouTube.

 

[danowat]

Why?

Because it makes me feel uncomfortable

you are wrong than, there's nothing wrong with him asking because creators are getting screwed by YouTube.

If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but it's the way I feel.

 

[DrKelpo]

~15 minutes after the video it was around $3300. What's Patreon's cut?

https://graphtreon.com/creator/AngryCentaurGaming

thanks guys.

 

[xrnzaaas]

Could someone explain to me how $2,700 per month just for patreon is unsustainable? Don't want to be a dick, appreciate I'm coming off as one though, but surely that's like $30,000 a year on its own?

We don't know where exactly he lives, how much he has to pay for rent/mortgage/insurance/health care/retirement fund and all that stuff so it's pretty much speculation how much he has to spend every month. But don't forget that he buys all the games he reviews and he also needs a top of the line hardware (and video editing software) for his material to look professional.

Also with stuff like Patreon you can't really plan for the future, because it's all in donations and you can't expect to receive the same amount of money every month like in a normal 9-5 job.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but it's the way I feel.

Personally I feel it's fine as long as you're able to demonstrate how you plan to get away from relying on user donations. Like, how are things going to be different a year from now, five?

 

[danowat]

Like, how are things going to be different a year from now, five?

Yeah, I get that, but that's just the same for everyone, do any of us really know where we'll be in 5 years time?, I got made redundant at the drop of a hat, one day had job, next day didn't, it's just the way things go.

 

[UrbanRats]

It means that when Joe Blogg's job sweeping up shit in a factory goes tits up he doesn't have the means to ask a whole raft of people for support.

As I said, if it makes me a dick for thinking like this, then I am a dick, but it's just how I see it.

And? So let me get this straight, if you lost your job, and were to ask your parents for help (either financial, or let you stay at their house for a bit, or even give you lunch) you wouldn't do that, because someone else losing their jobs, but without parents, wouldn't be able to do the same?

I don't know if it makes you a dick, but it does means you didn't think it through.

My concern is that if this is an issue now, what are his plans for long-term viability beyond just hoping he 'makes it'. Patching up the problem with donations from users is fine for now but if he's expecting that level of support it should be made clear how he plans to get away from needing that crutch. That doesn't make asking for support a bad thing, but I think there's a level if expectation with it in trying to find yourself a way out of needing it (at least in the sense of needing to outright ask).

It's a tough situation but one that really needs consideration as time moves on, especially as users get older.

Patron is not simple donation, is essentially paying for a service you want to endure and continue, because you see value in it.

Asking to support a patreon, is not like asking for a bit of money to help you in a time of need, it's a value proposition:
Do you like X content i produce? yes? I need time to produce it, time i can't spend working as a bartender or whatever.
Give me the money that job would, and i'll spend that time producing the content you like.

Simple.
It's no different than paying Sony to produce their games, or paying Netflix to produce their shows, it just sounds different because usually the content is offered for free, and the paying is optional and left to good will.

 

[danowat]

And? So let me get this straight, if you lost your job, and were to ask your parents for help (either financial, or let you stay at their house for a bit, or even give you lunch) you wouldn't do that, because someone else losing their jobs, but without parents, wouldn't be able to do the same?

I don't know if it makes you a dick, but it does means you didn't think it through.

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

 

[UrbanRats]

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

Nah, you just got lucky and think that makes you better than other people.
It happens.
Just know that it's no different from the good ol' "bootstraps" talk.

 

[danowat]

Nah, you just got lucky and think that makes you better than other people.
It happens.

You're being a bit abrasive, I don't think I am better than anyone.

 

[Teeth]

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

How do you feel about stores putting price tags on products?

 

[FinalAres]

And? So let me get this straight, if you lost your job, and were to ask your parents for help (either financial, or let you stay at their house for a bit, or even give you lunch) you wouldn't do that, because someone else losing their jobs, but without parents, wouldn't be able to do the same?

I don't know if it makes you a dick, but it does means you didn't think it through.


Patron is not simple donation, is essentially paying for a service you want to endure and continue, because you see value in it.

Asking to support a patreon, is not like asking for a bit of money to help you in a time of need, it's a value proposition:
Do you like X content i produce? yes? I need time to produce it, time i can't spend working as a bartender or whatever.
Give me the money that job would, and i'll spend that time producing the content you like.

Simple.
It's no different than paying Sony to produce their games, or paying Netflix to produce their shows, it just sounds different because usually the content is offered for free, and the paying is optional and left to good will.

It's not even slightly the same. Firstly asking family members for support is totally different to asking strangers for money, its more like begging, as in begging on the street.

However like begging on the street, its something they're forced to do, so you can't begrudge them that, however its also totally okay to feel uncomfortable about it.

 

[ScaryShark]

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

You're equating your personal life with someone who is talking directly to a large, engaged audience that probably values him continuing to produce the content that his audience enjoys and a portion of that audience will likely voluntarily support him directly through Patreon to assure that keeps going. When you're in the entertainment business and your financial model has been changed, you go to other avenues. I'm going to start supporting ACG through Patreon but this isn't a charity case and it isn't presented as such.

You're twisting this in to something it really isn't, and comparing it to things it has nothing to do with. Really weird.

 

[DrBo42]

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

Not to be rude but I think you've made your stance in here very clear. Sure there are more noble causes for people to spend money on but the topic is about a guy getting screwed over on YouTube and trying to keep his channel afloat via Patreon. People paying for a service etc. You could make an OT topic if you want to deep dive into what people spend money on and list some good places/causes to support if you feel so strongly about it. I dunno man.

 

[UrbanRats]

You're being a bit abrasive, I don't think I am better than anyone.

Sorry, wasn't intentional, but i am annoyed by your attitude towards the topic, because i think it's irrational.

It's not even slightly the same. Firstly asking family members for support is totally different to asking strangers for money, its more like begging, as in begging on the street.

However like begging on the street, its something they're forced to do, so you can't begrudge them that, however its also totally okay to feel uncomfortable about it.

Again, a beggar isn't offering a service you want.
The proposition here is clear: If you want to see more of this content, he needs to make money off of it, either pay up or see it go away.
It's not begging, it's laying down the economics of it.

Sure enough if enough people say "listen, nobody gives a shit about you videos" he won't open a Patreon with "please give me money for food anyway!".
So no, it's not like "begging on the street".

Also, the parents thing was in relation to not asking for help when in need, but i don't think this Patreon situation is the same.
It was a direct answer to the poster's quote.

 

[notaskwid]

Advertisers don't like angry people.

 

[Eumi]

Because it makes me feel uncomfortable



If I am wrong, then I am wrong, but it's the way I feel.

Maybe it isn't worth continuing this discussion with you if you don't actually know why you feel the way you feel, but I'm gonna springboard off this to talk about the weird sentiment people have that creators shouldn't be payed for their work.

You see it especially bad with artists. Where artists on tumblr or twitter or wherever who put out commission prices are basically opening themselves up to the inevitable messages yelling at them for daring to charge for their work.

And I have to wonder why. It's the same thing with patreon, there's this weird idea that it's somehow immoral, and it honestly comes across as kind of misguided.

Netflix charges a subscription. They produce and liscense content, making it available to watch, and in order to do that they need income, which they get from charging people a set subscription fee for access to the content they provide. As far as I'm aware, people for the most part seem to think this is fine. They're charging for a service.

But for some reason, if a content creator does the same thing, but not only allows the payer to choose how much they pay, but also still offer the vast majority if not all of their content completely free, it becomes immoral. Which is baffling. Somehow giving your customers a better situation for them is seen as bad. And I can only assume it's because people don't see it as someone charging for their work, but as someone asking for money for something they think should be free.

And hell, asking for donations for free content shouldn't be bad to begin with.

 

[Floody]

Been there, didn't ask for help, at least financial.

It's my job to fix the issue without having to resort to asking people for money, I find that vulgar, I see I am in the minority with that, but that's just the way I am.

It's not like he's asking people for money for nothing in return, he's saying it's necessary to keep the show going. Some are fine paying to keep the content they like coming.

 

[FinalAres]

Not to be rude but I think you've made your stance in here very clear. Sure there are more noble causes for people to spend money on but the topic is about a guy getting screwed over on YouTube and trying to keep his channel afloat via Patreon. People paying for a service etc. You could make an OT topic if you want to deep dive into what people spend money on and list some good places/causes to support if you feel so strongly about it. I dunno man.

He's not getting screwed over by YouTube. The platform is maturing, and people have to adapt. For too long advertisers haven't really understood what they're paying for, and now they do, they want change! Its them paying their salaries so they're within their right to.

Now Patreon to be fair makes total sense as a way to adapt to this change, but there's got to be a better model than to periodically beg for money and hope for the best.

I'm not having a go at youtubers in general, but this is not a sustainable model. People need to change up what they're doing!

EDIT: Although also wildly off topic so apologies. I guess I'm just saying, I'm not supporting this, but appreciate everyone who is.

 

[danowat]

Maybe it isn't worth continuing this discussion with you if you don't actually know why you feel the way you feel, but I'm gonna springboard off this to talk about the weird sentiment people have that creators shouldn't be payed for their work.

There probably is a valid discussion to be had about it, but it's probably not the right place for it, I expressed an opinion, and got press ganged, call weird and think that I am better than everyone because of it, so nah.

 

[ScaryShark]

He's not getting screwed over by YouTube. The platform is maturing, and people have to adapt. For too long advertisers haven't really understood what they're paying for, and now they do, they want change! Its them paying their salaries so they're within their right to.

Now Patreon to be fair makes total sense as a way to adapt to this change, but there's got to be a better model than to periodically beg for money and hope for the best.

I'm not having a go at youtubers in general, but this is not a sustainable model. People need to change up what they're doing!

Did you even watch the video this thread was made for? Why has 'beg' even entered this discussion. Maybe we have vastly different definitions of 'begging' but I certainly didn't see it in that video. He asked his audience if they value his content and want it to continue to exist in the way it does and in to the future that he needs financial support beyond YouTube. That's not 'begging'.

Also, how are mass demonetizations of videos with little to no warning and seemingly no recourse not getting 'screwed over'?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

Patron is not simple donation, is essentially paying for a service you want to endure and continue, because you see value in it.

Sure, I understand how Patreon works but with the ever increasing amount of content creators and the growing issues with the platforms I still don't see it being easy to keep those commitments there from people, especially as you move into your older years. It's a great solution for now but unless he plans to broaden the value proposition (Netflix with their originals, move to download options, Marvel - Amazon with their ever growing additions to Prime) I'd be concerned about drop-off in the longer term.

It's something that's worth thinking about as although everything he engages in is popular now doesn't mean it will be in a number of years time (meaning his particular style over the reviewing or playing of games in general).

 

[Roufianos]

DarkSydePhil needs donations too.

 

[jaekeem]

He's not getting screwed over by YouTube. The platform is maturing, and people have to adapt. For too long advertisers haven't really understood what they're paying for, and now they do, they want change! Its them paying their salaries so they're within their right to.

Now Patreon to be fair makes total sense as a way to adapt to this change, but there's got to be a better model than to periodically beg for money and hope for the best.

I'm not having a go at youtubers in general, but this is not a sustainable model. People need to change up what they're doing!

EDIT: Although also wildly off topic so apologies. I guess I'm just saying, I'm not supporting this, but appreciate everyone who is.

He's not begging. He laid out the situation and let his fans decide.

 

[FinalAres]

Did you even watch the video this thread was made for? Why has 'beg' even entered this discussion. Maybe we have vastly different definitions of 'begging' but I certainly didn't see it in that video. He asked his audience if they value his content and want it to continue to exist in the way it does and in to the future that he needs financial support beyond YouTube. That's not 'begging'.

Also, how are mass demonetizations of videos with little to no warning and seemingly no recourse not getting 'screwed over'?

I did watch the video and he was begging. asking for financial support from strangers is begging.

and they're not being screwed over because they're not entitles to earnings from youtube. They are primarily employees NOT OF THEIR FANS but of the advertisers. The advertisers therefore get a say in their content. So that's why. Simple.

 

[Freeman76]

Not to be rude but I think you've made your stance in here very clear. Sure there are more noble causes for people to spend money on but the topic is about a guy getting screwed over on YouTube and trying to keep his channel afloat via Patreon. People paying for a service etc. You could make an OT topic if you want to deep dive into what people spend money on and list some good places/causes to support if you feel so strongly about it. I dunno man.

The guy isnt getting screwed over by youtube thats a bit of a dramatical viewpoint to say the least. Asking for money from viewers of a channel that was started as a hobby comes across as a bit dodgy to some people, perhaps the guy could do with making the most of what he has earned so far and appreciate how great it is that he could make a living this way,as these things never last forever.

This is a rapidly changing field and content creators need to adapt to the changes.

Thing is you cant talk about anything on here without someone jumping down your throat, no matter what side of the fence you sit.

 

[DrKelpo]

on a side note

it speaks volumes about the quality and support of a channel that ACG makes one of these videos and in the next 12 hours the Patreon goes up by 2000$ and a channel like DarksydePhil makes similar (but more beggy) videos and is on a steady decline at 1000$ at the moment.

 

[ClosingADoor]

He's not getting screwed over by YouTube. The platform is maturing, and people have to adapt. For too long advertisers haven't really understood what they're paying for, and now they do, they want change! Its them paying their salaries so they're within their right to.

Now Patreon to be fair makes total sense as a way to adapt to this change, but there's got to be a better model than to periodically beg for money and hope for the best.

I'm not having a go at youtubers in general, but this is not a sustainable model. People need to change up what they're doing!

EDIT: Although also wildly off topic so apologies. I guess I'm just saying, I'm not supporting this, but appreciate everyone who is.

Going to Patreon is them changing. It is a good thing, since now these people can work directly for their fans instead of having to take into account advertisers. People paying for content is very normal and has been for ages. Having everything run around advertising is a bad thing actually, since you will then have to go for more views instead of better quality for your subscribers.

 

[OriginalPoe]

Only makes sense since advertisers are "wising up" (aka getting even greedier).

Hope anyone who uses his reviews regularly drops a dollar or two a month.

 

[Eumi]

I did watch the video and he was begging. asking for financial support from strangers is begging.

and they're not being screwed over because they're not entitles to earnings from youtube. They are primarily employees NOT OF THEIR FANS but of the advertisers. The advertisers therefore get a say in their content. So that's why. Simple.

If asking for money from strangers is begging, then do you define any corporation charging for a service as beggers?

 

[ScaryShark]

I did watch the video and he was begging. asking for financial support from strangers is begging.

and they're not being screwed over because they're not entitles to earnings from youtube. They are primarily employees NOT OF THEIR FANS but of the advertisers. The advertisers therefore get a say in their content. So that's why. Simple.

He's offering a form of journalism/entertainment in exchange for money. Are stores just warehouses of begging to you?

They are entitled to earnings from YouTube under terms that had been laid out, when those terms change with little to no warning, I think 'screwed' is an apt adjective. I hope you aren't in charge of any laborer's long term future.

 

[FinalAres]

Going to Patreon is them changing. It is a good thing, since now these people can work directly for their fans instead of having to take into account advertisers. People paying for content is very normal and has been for ages. Having everything run around advertising is a bad thing actually, since you will then have to go for more views instead of better quality for your subscribers.

Totally agree with that, and I realise me saying "oh you shouldn't beg" but "everyone should move towards patreon" is kinda contradictory. And I do appreciate my feelings are mixed! But I still think that if they are to survive than just patreon isn't enough. From my point of view there are hundreds of people doing the same thing (including relying on patreon), no one is standing out.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

If asking for money from strangers is begging, then do you define any corporation charging for a service as beggers?

The closest parallel is probably online newspapers or Wikipedia when they do their drivers. Content that is usually enjoyed at no expense to the user but is now unsustainable in that model.

 

[Hasney]

Only makes sense since advertisers are "wising up" (aka getting even greedier).

In what way are the advertisers greedier? Their adverts were being played on extremist material, so they told YouTube they want more control over where their ads appear or they were leaving. YouTubes response is far too heavy handed and over the top in reaction.

The advertisers complaints wasn't about money.

 

[Farsi]

^ for discussion. Interested to hear opinions, I feel it's an important topic as these issues become more apparent. What do you guys think about the long term sustainability for those who haven't got big enough to just ride the wave?

Long term sustainability for individual youtubers is a myth. Always has been, always will be. This isn't because youtube is dying, it's because relevancy on the site is so difficult to maintain and has been getting even worse since 2008.

Youtube is a side project. Never rely on it to feed yourself.

 

[UrbanRats]

Now Patreon to be fair makes total sense as a way to adapt to this change, but there's got to be a better model than to periodically beg for money and hope for the best.

I don't think that's the model though.
It's not periodically begging for money, (if you're referring to this video) since it's just related to this one instance of Youtube demonetization, and trying to move the monetization from one model (Youtube views) to another (Patreon subs).

But more in general, Patreon IS a subscription, you pay X amount of money on a recurring basis (week, month, per product, etc) and you, usually, get exclusive content for it.
Just like Netflix or whatever.

The only difference is that you often are supporting content that is (partially) distributed also for free and you have a more direct line of contact with the creator themselves (and maybe people really like to deal with big corporations, i don't know).

The idea of a video like this, however, is related to the fact that people still see Patreon (and kickstarter, i suppose) as someone on their knees begging you to help them pay their bills, when really, it's always a value proposition.

"Do you want to see Pillar of Eternity? Nobody else is going to make it, I can make it, but you have to pay me for my time".

And to dispel that notion, would be great.

Sure, I understand how Patreon works but with the ever increasing amount of content creators and the growing issues with the platforms I still don't see it being easy to keep those commitments there from people, especially as you move into your older years. It's a great solution for now but unless he plans to broaden the value proposition (Netflix with their originals, move to download options, Marvel - Amazon with their ever growing additions to Prime) I'd be concerned about drop-off in the longer term.

It's something that's worth thinking about as although everything he engages in is popular now doesn't mean it will be in a number of years time (meaning his particular style over the reviewing or playing of games in general).

Hey, never claimed Patreon was the ultimate job position, but that's one of the avenues that came out of this type of entertainment, and there aren't many alternatives around.

For example if you create illustrations or comics, the alternative isn't that great either.
You either work for a publisher (but that's also in very limited demand) or as a free lancer, but neither is all that secure of a job position, unless you're Jim Lee.

At least this way you know that as long as people like what you produce, and you're not being a dick to your fans, the exchange is fair.
It's not the greatest business model, but it's far from being the only one facing problems in the coming years (job security, pensions, and various aspects of walfare are always on the line).

My point was just to underline how Patreon isn't simply "begging for money", regardless of how good of a business model you find it (we can agree that it has short comings).

 

[ScaryShark]

Long term sustainability for individual youtubers is a myth. Always has been, always will be. This isn't because youtube is dying, it's because relevancy on the site is so difficult to maintain and has been getting even worse since 2008.

Youtube is a side project. Never rely on it to feed yourself.

If there's anything that is long term sustainable, insulated and will grow up with it's audience on the gaming side of YouTube, it's criticism.

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

I
At least this way you know that as long as people like what you produce, and you're not being a dick to your fans, the exchange is fair.
It's not the greatest business model, but it's far from being the only one facing problems in the coming years (job security, pensions, and various aspects of walfare are always on the line).

Good points well made, thanks for taking the time to discuss. I never thought of it as begging as well, just to be clear on my end. Like ACG and what he does and want him to do well and continue, that's the main source for my concerns.

 

[Freeman76]

If there's anything that is long term sustainable, insulated and will grow up with it's audience on the gaming side of YouTube, it's criticism.

What?

Is that exclusive to gaming or something in your mind?

The quy you quoted is spot on.

 

[PAULINK]

this guy is making bank on patreon, the rich get richer.

 

[Sailent]

$5,273 on Patreon. How is that ammount of money not enough? What's the problem here?

 

[FinalAres]

The idea of a video like this, however, is related to the fact that people still see Patreon (and kickstarter, i suppose) as someone on their knees begging you to help them pay their bills, when really, it's always a value proposition.

So this is interesting because that is how I see it, so maybe it is a perception change that needs to happen. Or if it really is an added value service and not just a 'support your favourite youtubers', maybe youtubers need to prove the added value of patreon. More exclusive content, more 'event' style videos rather than regular stuff, and more that makes them stand out against everyone else doing exactly the same thing.

Now that obviously sounds like I'm still weighted to the idea that youtubers need to change (and I am), but I am open to the idea that its just a perception change that needs to happen. But how would that happen?

 

[The ๖ۜBronx]

What?
Is that exclusive to gaming or something in your mind?

The quy you quoted is spot on.

It's the juvenile bullshit of dismissing criticism purely because it's being critical. Some people are so fragile or incapable of illustrating their thoughts that they see someone discussing something in that fashion and write it off as being a 'hater' or just moaning for the sake of it. A roadblock for discourse used by those that can't (or refuse to) think from more than one perspective.

 

[Starwolf_UK]

With YouTube demonetisation on the rise and traditional advertisers bailing out, how long until Google buys Patreon or sets up their own 'Pay a Creator Directly' website so they can keep getting a cut?

I do remember there used to be a donate button on channels but I never clicked it so don't know what site it went to.

Feels like something they should've been working on for a bit.
Maybe it disables ads on the channel you're supporting or something...not sure if that would interfere with YouTube Red, though

Since YouTube Ded was mentioned I'll also mention that service only available in United States, Australia, Mexico, New Zealand and South Korea.

That is why I don't want google running a funding platform.

Even Lazy Gamer get demonetized. The guy do videos about building 486, what is the logic?

This makes it sound more like the algorithm that determines these had a revision* and decided to get over zealous. Looking on his twitter feed it's a mix of videos some of which make sense (Doom 2016), some which don't (Sims 4 Let's play, videos with no talking) and others in the middle (Chickens vs. T-Rexes which monetization is back on).

*-You would think after screwing the discovery of content leading to huge drops in views on some channels that more caution would be exercised here...

SirTapTap had on interesting observation based on what happened on their channel:
https://twitter.com/SirTapTap/status/898267738489139203
We're going by tags now? Really?

 

[Eumi]

So this is interesting because that is how I see it, so maybe it is a perception change that needs to happen. Or if it really is an added value service and not just a 'support your favourite youtubers', maybe youtubers need to prove the added value of patreon. More exclusive content, more 'event' style videos rather than regular stuff, and more that makes them stand out against everyone else doing exactly the same thing.

Now that obviously sounds like I'm still weighted to the idea that youtubers need to change (and I am), but I am open to the idea that its just a perception change that needs to happen. But how would that happen?

The change will happen when people stop calling people asking to be payed for their work 'begging'.