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Anita Sarkeesian’s First ‘Tropes vs. Women in Games’ Video May Come Out Next Month

Do people even read what I post ?
Do you read what you post? I mean...


Your science talks about objectifying women as opposed to sexualizing them, which is what I was referring to. Objectifying and sexualizing are two different things. Don't conflate them.


And your second science discusses not that sexualization doesn't work but that you have to do it differently.


And then you try and take things out of context, by posting:
"sexual behavior appeared to reflect devotion and commitment."

...when the entire quote in context is:
article said:
The authors proposed that women's attitudes toward sexually oriented advertising would improve if ads depicted sex in a manner consistent with women's intrinsic values—for example if the sexual behavior appeared to reflect devotion and commitment.

This means several things: one, that sex can still sell to women, that you can still sexualize men to do it, BUT that by doing these things the ads could become MORE effective.

Nowhere does it say that ads sexualizing males are ineffective.


Sorry, but an underwear ad don't show those... and even if your "my woman buys my underwear" argument fits, there is a MUCH bigger market for single males for underwear, since the cliche say they wash less

I have to laugh at this. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. I know you're coming from your background in women's studies, but I'm coming from my background IN MARKETING and I'm calling you on your bullshit.

My point wasn't that moms buy underwear only or that girlfriends by underwear only. But they are huge demographics and campaigns are built around targeting them.

I mean, have you heard of running multiple ad campaigns? Or different brand targeting? Jesus christ.

I'm sorry I'm venting at you, people just have the most bizarre and warped view of how marketing and advertising work and it gets to me after a while. Especially when it relates to feminism because feminist arguments about the topic are almost always coming from a place of ignorance and are confusing what they feel marketing should be doing or what it is doing from their perspective, and the actual intent behind the marketing in the first place.



I like how you pepper a argument against sexism by making a sexist argument. As a grown man, what woman is buying your underwear? Or do you mean your mom?

My argument wasn't sexist, it's reality. Ads for many men's products are targeted towards women because they do the majority of shopping for many households.

I mean, you would think you guys would get this when Old Spice does so quite directly with its: "Ladies! Do you wish your man smelled like me?" commercials. They're literally doing this because women buy deodorant for the men in their lives a LOT.

It's not sexism, it's reality. People get upset at marketing because it doesn't reflect what their ideal world view is, but that's because doing so isn't its job.
 

B-Genius

Unconfirmed Member
While I agree with a lot of what you've said here, did you read that second link Eddy posted? It's complete hogwash and not something that anyone who wants to have an intelligent and reasoned debate about Anita (and/or sexism in games) should wave about.
I didn't feel the need to, thanks to the quick research performed by some of the people on here. I wasn't referring specifically to any quote made by anyone on here or otherwise - I was simply trying to reinforce the fact that there's still a lot to be skeptical about outside of baseless claims and caveman threats.

This is kind of what I mean. You pointing out that one bit of hogwash directed against her doesn't automatically invalidate her critics, just as one factually incorrect video doesn't invalidate her work. It's not a measure of who has the most accurate facts on the subject, or who is the bigger victim.

We've established there's a problem. It's been said time and time again, but all we can really hope to do at this point is wait until the project goes live (listen to the "loudest voice" as someone put it earlier), and take the discussion from there.
 
Ironic that you posted a factually empty link in an attempt to demonstrate that Anita's got her facts wrong.

Well...one of the two, anyway :)

The truth is that her Bayonetta faux pas did actually happen, and she never truly owned up to it. I'm not willing to give people the benefit of the doubt when they screw up like that--especially when they have an agenda to push.

All any of us can do is wait and see what these new videos are like.
 
This is kind of what I mean. You pointing out that one bit of hogwash directed against her doesn't automatically invalidate her critics, just as one factually incorrect video doesn't invalidate her work. It's not a measure of who has the most accurate facts on the subject, or who is the bigger victim.
Well sure, I wasn't trying to invalidate all criticism against Anita in my post (I'm on the record myself in some of these threads as not being a fan of all of her past work), just counter a lot of the ridiculous misinformation that's being tossed around in this thread, swallowed by a lot of people and then gets treated like "fact" in subsequent posts. Separating fact from fiction, that's all.
 

Vino

Banned
It is perfectly possible to have sex without objectification or sexism.

Male objectification for sexual reasons don't sell.

Non objectified and sexist sex sell very little.

Sexism sells like hotcakes



Since when Snes was "next gen"

There's no Justin Bieber or Jonas Brothers in your world?
 
Do men play the sexist games because it is sexist, or are the games sexist, because they are played by men?

Btw. is just pointing out tropes really that hard of a "job"? At least the Bayonetta-Vid was more like "Shitty advertisment. Sexist" instead of really trying to analyze the Game itself. I am studying at a University and if I would just point out some obvious things, even can not see the full view, it would be bad.

Like the Ico-tweet. I still do not see any sexist point in the actual Game itself.
Is it that a man rescues a woman?
Is it, that Yordas
mom
is the villain?
Is it, that Ico has to walk with her?

If I see the whole point of the Game, to me it seems totally fine.:

A young girl was trapped for almost her whole life in a cage.
The mom needs her.
Ico is sent by his village as a sacrifice and while trying to escape his fate, helps Yorda.
Yorda even rescues him in the End. She will be the strong one, which will hold Icos Fate.

So. If someone call Ico the most sexist Game in the world (or something along the lines), is the reasoning just, because Ico rescues and helps Yorda and Yorda can not help herself, because she spent years in the cage?
 

params7

Banned
Edit: Tweets not actually there. Just a fake.


0Wrh24F.jpg


Those are really cute shoes. Wonder if she would have been able to afford them if it weren't for the kickstarter.
 

smr00

Banned
0Wrh24F.jpg


Those are really cute shoes. Wonder if she would have been able to afford them if it weren't for the kickstarter.
Wouldn't surprise me if at least 90% of the money she got from that scamstarter she did went straight to shit like this.

She is a joke.
 
Words can't express how much I want her to prove all her critics wrong. Nobody deserves the shitstorm she went through.

Knock 'em dead, Anita.
I don't know how friendly we are to a +1 around here.

But there's hardly anything more concise to what I want to say.
 
Recently heard about these two studies:
More Than Half Of Women Are Attracted To... Other Women

Why Straight Women Dig Women

Kinda interesting. Maybe Team Ninja's target audience is bigger than we thought.
I think there's an unfortunance in that this sort of thing is often used, like much of the field of Evolutionary Psychology which unfortunately isn't practicing real science, that something is biological innate or leaning in origin. Particularly of neurological fact. As, as much as there's a knee jerk dismissal of Evo Psych from some groups, there's also a knee jerk defense of the field and those in it as being %99.9 scientifically sound. And detractors as being "politically correct", agenda harboring, and ignorant of science. When Evo Psych has more than a handful of individuals exactly like Satoshi Kanazawa.

In fact in many ways pop evo psych is a spiritual successor of craniometry. In fact Evolutionary Psychology doesn't just often make unfortunate statements about gender and sex, but also of race. There are multiple people in the field strongly trying to argue that there are extreme neurological differences between races. Less common than claiming strong sexual and gender neurological differences exist because such claims are far more politically correct. And making such claims is far less social suicide. Not only is scientific sexism more accepted than scientific racism, but there's a significant support for those doing research trying to prove the claim that gender and sexual orientation are neurologically innate because of religious bigotry claiming that being transgender or homosexual is an unfortunate lifestyle choice. And pro-intersectionality and a pro-minority stance in feminism making many mainstream feminists less suspicious of such claims.

That isn't to say everyone in Evo Psych is doing this. But they very commonly are. And there's also a striking tendency to state a weak hypothesis as theory and fact.

--

Onto this claim. The claim that women are neurologically more bisexual I find to be highly suspicious and unlikely. Especially the claim that neurology is the main cause of any perceived difference. If anything I see things like this and the commonality of things like rape fantasy among women to be evidence of the influence of society on sexual orientation and sexual identity. In particularly, evidence of patriarchy having enough influence as to sliding politics of sexuality into one way. Men being seen as superior and dominant and having the desire to dominate, and women as inferior and submissive and having the desire to submit to an "alpha male". In fact to all the MRAs who claim we live in a matriarchy, if this were the case we would not have an alpha male culture, we would have an alpha female culture. The belief in an alpha male in Western culture is strong proof of patriarchy as defined by feminists.

It's also disliked to imply that society has an influence in shaping sexuality instead of neurology. Because people tend to strongly identify with their genders, if not especially transgender individuals. And because a common argument against homosexuals is that homosexuality is a "choice". But I find it to be sound. I might remind that even if society helps shape sexuality, that doesn't mean being transgender or homosexual is a choice. I feel that a complicated group of factors go into creating these things. And even if society is a part of that shaping, it does not mean that society will stomp out being homosexual or transgender. Society doesn't stomp out any deviance. In fact as much as sexuality is seen as innate, not just women, but much of society would be outed as more bisexual than they currently are.

It so happens that women, too, are taught to sexually objectify women. These feelings become internalized to the point to the point that it becomes a strong theme in many women's sexuality. Women's sexuality is also strongly suppressed. And pressed inward instead of outward like men's. That is, men are taught to think about the bodies of others in terms of sexuality, while women are taught to think of their own. And the typical reaction to the sexually objectified man in the media is for people to say "that's gay" or associate it with homosexuality, rather than women's sexual. The fact that when people see objectified men, they more often think of homosexual men than heterosexual women, is very telling about how women's sexuality is suppressed in society.

Then there is the fact that not only are women taught to have independent and personal enjoyment of the bodies of men aesthetically. Independent of what men think think women should find physically attractive(see: "he's a fag and not a real man, and women shouldn't be attracted to him", speeches). But women are told not to be sexual and their sexuality is taught by society as a prize to be given away. Leading to all sorts of sexual repression and things like rape fantasies in women. Women are told period, not to have sexual agency. And to give up sex in submission to a man they enjoy for other qualities. Which is why women are slut shamed for engaging in the same sexual practices men are praised for.

Can you imagine how men would react if told their sex was a gift to be given to a dominant and successful woman. And not only that, were told by women what kind of woman they can find attractive. The opposite happens and men are constantly telling women what kinds of men they can find attractive, and how many partners they can have. Thus men tend to sexualize women and women sexualize themselves far more than men. Thus the so called "natural" bisexuality of women.

The idea that women and the archetypal or idealized woman is universal is also problematic because there are many of us who do not find feminine bodies appealing at all. I will admit that I am a bisexual, but I do not find women as equally attractive as men. I do find some feminine features more attractive than masculine ones, particularly the face, where I noticeably gravitate to feminine facial features more. But the female body in general does not attract me at all, not nearly as much as the male body, at least. And there are millions like me very much more attracted to the male body. The feminine curvaceousness men and women alike I have encountered people praise has left me confused and often aghast since I was very young. I do not see the appeal of the female body as more beautiful than the male body, at all.
 

pargonta

Member
EjHwmCJ.gif



ignoring the lack of videos or updates to the arrival of videos, someone has indeed been posting quite a bit and regularly to the damsel in distress tumblr, here.

While it is not a surprise or a new idea that games feature this trope prominently, seeing these different images collected together weaves a nice quilt of lazy writing, relying on tropes long established in other creative media, and perhaps a touch of actually misogyny, but who's to say.

take a peek if you want, as we wait for a video update of some kind.
 

anaron

Member
Her selection of Aeris and situational reasoning (going from the screenshot) is pretty nonsensical. How does a trade off for a little girl's safety deem her a damsel in distress, exactly?
 

Keslord

Banned
Her selection of Aeris and situational reasoning (going from the screenshot) is pretty nonsensical. How does a trade off for a little girl's safety deem her a damsel in distress, exactly?

She will find a reason why any situation a female is (or, isn't) in a game is sexist. She will pull it out of her ass. And people eat it up.
 

anaron

Member
She will find a reason why any situation a female is (or, isn't) in a game is sexist. She will pull it out of her ass. And people eat it up.

I'm fully open to Anita using this new platform to (hopefully) exemplify her points intelligently and make the work/criticism put into it count...but I'll admit, having done some homework on her material, I'm a little disillusioned by her.
 

pargonta

Member
I'm fully open to Anita using this new platform to (hopefully) exemplify her points intelligently and make the work/criticism put into it count...but I'll admit, having done some homework on her material, I'm a little disillusioned by her.

I'm thinking being kidnapped by Tseng is enough to be held under the trope, specifically since it pulls the main character forward/onward in the story.
 

anaron

Member
I'm thinking being kidnapped by Tseng is enough to be held under the trope, specifically since it pulls the main character forward/onward in the story.


If we're to use TV Tropes' definition as an example, A Damsel in Distress is:

A character, usually female and nubile, is portrayed as helpless and in danger in order to put the cast in motion. In particular, the cast is unified, putting aside differences in pursuit of the rescue.

In the most simplest terms, I suppose it is. But for me, in doing so you have to completely ignore the context of said scene, or else it doesn't seem as terribly applicable. She isn't helplessly kidnapped or portrayed as much; the Shinra and co. catch up to her and she goes along willingly to ensure Marlene's safety.
 
Can anyone explain to me why the "Damsel in Distress"-Trope seems sexist for some?

I never heard anyone saying: "Oh. I need to rescue Princess Peach in the Game. Somehow, as a female, I feel offended by it, because it shows she is weak."

I really do not understand. Besides the main demographic of Video Games are men. I can clearly see why something like DoA is sexist, but just rescuing a woman, out of love or just for a mission, is deemed sexist.

Besides I wonder if she will even questioning why the choices were made. Like in her tumblr, she is showing Super Meat Boy. McMillen, in IndieGame - The Movie, even explained why he choosed her.
 

Kukuk

Banned
Can anyone explain to me why the "Damsel in Distress"-Trope seems sexist for some?

I never heard anyone saying: "Oh. I need to rescue Princess Peach in the Game. Somehow, as a female, I feel offended by it, because it shows she is weak."

I really do not understand. Besides the main demographic of Video Games are men. I can clearly see why something like DoA is sexist, but just rescuing a woman, out of love or just for a mission, is deemed sexist.

Besides I wonder if she will even questioning why the choices were made. Like in her tumblr, she is showing Super Meat Boy. McMillen, in IndieGame - The Movie, even explained why he choosed her.

Because feminists are deeply offended by anything not showing women in the absolute best light possible.

They also hate any form of maleness, and men have an innate desire to save women, so it's not okay on that level, either.

It's stupid shit, but that's kind of feminism in a nutshell.
 

anaron

Member
Can anyone explain to me why the "Damsel in Distress"-Trope seems sexist for some?

Because most of the time it is? When employed, it largely presents the one dimension damsel at hand as being utterly helpless, incapable of preventing the situation and eventually requiring a man to get her out of it.

Because feminists are deeply offended by anything not showing women in the absolute best light possible.

They also hate any form of maleness, and men have an innate desire to save women, so it's not okay on that level, either.

It's stupid shit, but that's kind of feminism in a nutshell.


Mh6LIuC.png
 
One could just as easily argue that Peach personifies the objectified stereotype of women of past decades; not independent or politically affluent in any meaningful sense, and thus always falls victim to the power struggles of male figures.

Peach's repeated capture and weakness is actually an artistically relevant metaphor for the consequences of being a "princess" who has only ever learned to bake, write invitations, and hold an umbrella.

By Nintendo showcasing her infinite captures, Nintendo boosts the ideals of feminism by displaying the negative consequences of behaving in a way that is the opposite of determined, independent, free-thinking, and modern. To be stuck with the feudal label of "princess" is to be stuck with the weakness of adhering to a male's objectification.

Thus, Mario is the most forward-thinking of all feminist games.
 
Because most of the time it is? When employed, it largely presents the one dimension damsel at hand as being utterly helpless, incapable of preventing the situation and eventually requiring a man to get her out of it.




Mh6LIuC.png

You know, I don't really find Ashley particularly weak or powerless just because she is unable to escape from a fortress full of zombie Spaniards and other mutated freaks without some help. My thought was never that "She needs a man, and Leon is the man in this case, that is necessary for her to be saved."I just figured she is a girl who has been targeted by a powerful organization because of her political stature. If the president happened to have a son instead, I wouldn't think he'd be any better fit to escape on his own.
 

Kukuk

Banned
Because most of the time it is? When employed, it largely presents the one dimension damsel at hand as being utterly helpless, incapable of preventing the situation and eventually requiring a man to get her out of it.

One dimensional damsels are sexist, but one dimensional men rolling over for women isn't?

I noticed this chick complains in one of her videos about women only fitting into one of four different groups, but I don't see her complaining about men only fitting into one of one group.
 

anaron

Member
One dimensional damsels are sexist, but one dimensional men rolling over for women isn't?

I noticed this chick complains in one of her videos about women only fitting into one of four different groups, but I don't see her complaining about men only fitting into one of one group.
That's because generally speaking, (straight, white) men have had it pretty fucking good when it comes to diverse, popularized representation.
 

Archurro

Member
Because feminists are deeply offended by anything not showing women in the absolute best light possible.

They also hate any form of maleness, and men have an innate desire to save women, so it's not okay on that level, either.

It's stupid shit, but that's kind of feminism in a nutshell.

Boy, you sure have done your research.
 

Kukuk

Banned
That's because generally speaking, (straight, white) men have had it pretty fucking good when it comes to diverse, popularized representation.

What does that even mean, and how does it apply to how men are represented in games?
 
Because most of the time it is? When employed, it largely presents the one dimension damsel at hand as being utterly helpless, incapable of preventing the situation and eventually requiring a man to get her out of it.

Couldnt the one, who rescues the damsel in distress, not just be... like an everyday male?

Lets just take Pandoras Tower e.g.
You have to cure Elena and fight for her the whole time. You go on an epic adventure into a tower, just for her.
It shows "his" love to her by that.

To me it just seems the "normal" thing to do such thing for the one you love. I also wanna protect my gf from bad things.


Besides that I am really wonder how much percent of the female Gamers really will think "Oh. I need to rescue a Girl again. I really feel offended by it."

And I am also wondering if every time a women in a videogame is portrayed in a bad light, that is considered also sexist.
That is why I am still waiting for her video on Ico, because she said it is the most sexist Game she played. And I would love her reason on it, since
Yorda can not do anything, since she was locked up in the cage for some years, but in the end is the one who will rescue Ico.
 
I was going to bump this topic, but I decided against it.

I don't even think Sarkeesian's innate points are that bad. But, shit, people. The gaming feminist movement seems to have put so much stake in someone who can't even get out one video in eight months. If our Lady And Saviour was "the one true hope of changing the gaming landscape for the better" and she's failed to deliver anything of any sort of substance in such a long amount of time, what am I meant to take away from that? Did the MRAs win? Is gaming society just fucked?

Yeah, that paragraph was sort of hyperbolic, because it's not as if Sarkeesian is the last hope for change, but I still feel like I'm going crazy. I feel like every other journo I talk to wholly supports her. Ian Miles Cheong and Jim Sterling in particular. I generally love the guys, a lot more than most people on here, but they seem deliberately blithe when it comes to this lady. And it doesn't stop there, and I feel like going crazy when still thinks she can deliver.

And then Rowan Kaiser told me to just treat her like anyone else with a late project, but few others have this self-induced weight and impetus on their shoulders. No one else is treating her like anyone else with a late project, so why should I?

So perhaps I'm not mad about Sarkeesian herself that much, but I'm sure sick of hearing about how great she is when nothing in the last eight months has been evidence to that theory, and if her videos, if they ever come out, aren't that great, I hope against hope that we can move on and find another "idol to carry us through the storm". Mattie Brice? Maddy Myers? They keep putting out great articles. They do things. Even Liz Deloria, who has made some arguably hyperbolic statements, is better fit to lead the feminism viewpoint than someone as inactive as "just another lady who's late with her project".



And that, everyone, is probably the most radical statement I will make as a games writer guy.
 

Persona86

Banned
Am I the only one that is fed up with talk about women in video games?

Mainly because it's mostly BS, because usually they always ignore every strange thing that involves men but make a big deal if it involves a woman.
 

Kukuk

Banned
I was going to bump this topic, but I decided against it.

I don't even think Sarkeesian's innate points are that bad. But, shit, people. The gaming feminist movement seems to have put so much stake in someone who can't even get out one video in eight months. If our Lady And Saviour was "the one true hope of changing the gaming landscape for the better" and she's failed to deliver anything of any sort of substance in such a long amount of time, what am I meant to take away from that? Did the MRAs win? Is gaming society just fucked?

Yeah, that paragraph was sort of hyperbolic, because it's not as if Sarkeesian is the last hope for change, but I still feel like I'm going crazy. I feel like every other journo I talk to wholly supports her. Ian Miles Cheong and Jim Sterling in particular. I generally love the guys, a lot more than most people on here, but they seem deliberately blithe when it comes to this lady. And it doesn't stop there, and I feel like going crazy when still thinks she can deliver.

And then Rowan Kaiser told me to just treat her like anyone else with a late project, but few others have this self-induced weight and impetus on their shoulders. No one else is treating her like anyone else with a late project, so why should I?

So perhaps I'm not mad about Sarkeesian herself that much, but I'm sure sick of hearing about how great she is when nothing in the last eight months has been evidence to that theory, and if her videos, if they ever come out, aren't that great, I hope against hope that we can move on and find another "idol to carry us through the storm". Mattie Brice? Maddy Myers? They keep putting out great articles. They do things. Even Liz Deloria, who has made some arguably hyperbolic statements, is better fit to lead the feminism viewpoint than someone as inactive as "just another lady who's late with her project".



And that, everyone, is probably the most radical statement I will make as a games writer guy.

Why does the games industry need to be feminist friendly? Do people actually believe "the patriarchy" purposely push women out of it? The industry was largely built by males, for males, so why should everyone bend over backward to include women?
 

anaron

Member
Why does the games industry need to be feminist friendly? Do people actually believe "the patriarchy" purposely push women out of it? The industry was largely built by males, for males, so why should everyone bend over backward to include women?

oh my god


Because: WOMEN EXIST, WOMEN PLAY VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN LIKE VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN BUY VIDEOGAMES
 

Roto13

Member
Am I the only one that is fed up with talk about women in video games?

It's an important conversation that should be had by someone a lot more informed and less horrible than Anita Sarkeesian. Because people like this exist:

Why does the games industry need to be feminist friendly? Do people actually believe "the patriarchy" purposely push women out of it? The industry was largely built by males, for males, so why should everyone bend over backward to include women?

Nice terrible moe avatar, by the way.

oh my god


Because: WOMEN EXIST, WOMEN PLAY VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN LIKE VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN BUY VIDEOGAMES

Women make video games sometimes, even.
 
Why does the games industry need to be feminist friendly? Do people actually believe "the patriarchy" purposely push women out of it? The industry was largely built by males, for males, so why should everyone bend over backward to include women?

I'm sure funchameleon will pop in here and inform you, but as a primer, because maintaining any sort of arbitrary barrier for entry because "that's just the way things are" is...how do I put this...lazy? Ignorant? Maybe even a bit evil?

It's not about inclusion, it's about the removal of exclusion. Or something. Ask someone more informed than me. I just want to review games for the most part.
 
I didnt watch it, but didnt she talk most about the advertising of Bayonetta in the Video, than about the Game itself, which she didnt even play?

Yes, she spent more time on the advertisement than the game. The issue that people have with the video is that she said that Bayonetta being a single mom (which isn't even true) is the only redeeming aspect of the game.
 

Kukuk

Banned
oh my god


WOMEN EXIST, WOMEN PLAY VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN LIKE VIDEOGAMES, WOMEN BUY VIDEOGAMES

You're right, they do, but the vast majority of gamers are men. Most purchasers are men, and the industry wouldn't have grown like it did if not for the money men had spent.

So why bend over backward for a demographic that's largely uninterested in gaming?

I'm sure funchameleon will pop in here and inform you, but as a primer, because maintaining any sort of arbitrary barrier for entry because "that's just the way things are" is...how do I put this...lazy? Ignorant? Maybe even a bit evil?

It's not about inclusion, it's about the removal of exclusion. Or something. Ask someone more informed than me. I just want to review games for the most part.

But there is not exclusion of women in games. When have women ever been forbade from buying games or entering the games industry?
 

anaron

Member
It's an important conversation that should be had by someone a lot more informed and less horrible than Anita Sarkeesian. Because people like this exist:



Nice terrible moe avatar, by the way.



Women make video games sometimes, even.

But I thought videogames were built by and for...men?!


ou're right, they do, but the vast majority of gamers are men. Most purchasers are men, and the industry wouldn't have grown like it did if not for the money men had spent.

So why bend over backward for a demographic that's largely uninterested in gaming?

UQkUl6S.gif


I just can't even
 

DocSeuss

Member
It's an important conversation that should be had by someone a lot more informed and less horrible than Anita Sarkeesian. Because people like this exist:

I don't know if Anita Sarkeesian is a horrible person, but everything I've seen indicates that she's someone with the same grasp on the topic as a freshman who took a gender studies or psych 101 class from a crappy teacher.

I was actually looking into approaching the topic myself, but I figured A) nobody'd want to hear things from a staunchly moderate straight, white male, and B) this topic popped up and said her video might come out.

But by all accounts, except the people who seem to be paying her to give them talks, she's bad at what she does, so maybe her releasing a video isn't worth it.

I think, in the end, it all comes back to good storytelling (which is my motive for wanting to do such a thing--storytelling is the noblest of human leisure pursuits, because it enlightens us and makes us better. Sexist storytelling is an affront to that noble goal). Good storytelling is humanist, not misogynist, not feminist, not misandrist, not masc--I don't know if there even is a word for some kind of male movement. But you get the idea, right?

Do you have any data to back that up? Because its wrong.

Yeah, women definitely buy games. One of the reasons games like Skyrim, Bioware titles, Assassin's Creed, and The Legend of Zelda are as popular as they are is because (compared to other franchises), they have disproportionate levels of female customers. People really need to explore why they appeal and try to be more inclusive of that audience.

Too bad they all have bad writing. :(
 
D

Deleted member 20920

Unconfirmed Member
You're right, they do, but the vast majority of gamers are men. Most purchasers are men, and the industry wouldn't have grown like it did if not for the money men had spent.

So why bend over backward for a demographic that's largely uninterested in gaming?



But there is not exclusion of women in games. When have women ever been forbade from buying games or entering the games industry?

Have you ever considered that maybe many of our games and its marketing makes games unappealing because they pretend women do not exists i.e. not market to women or pretend they only want to play games that make them take care of babiez) or because many games are legitimately misogynistic?
 
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