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[Mael]

So I guess you believe that historically females have been just about as interested in video games as males. Or present day even. Alright, we're at an impasse. I don't believe that. Not much else to say here.

That's not what I'm saying.
Historically gaming is seen as a male hobby but that doesn't mean women were never interested in it or had no interest in it.
It was mostly targeted to males, that's undisputable.
To deny that there's a huge portion of female gamers right now is denying an evidence that the study report.
That's what I'm saying.

 

[Kukuk]

Thanks for the link. This is interesting stuff!

I'm willing to accept that broadly, men and women might trend towards different interests. But, as Anne Campell says, there's also overlap. There may be proportional differences, but there will also be women who enjoy technical things and men who trend towards empathy. We can't see what that overlap might be like in this particular newborn baby study because we don't know the sample size or how big the differences were.

It's also not clear how these differences would specifically apply to games, especially in light of numbers like the ESA survey. So I don't see this as evidence that developers shouldn't be inclusive of women in modern games.

I do agree that developers should make reasonable effort to appeal to women with games, but I don't think anyone should demand that they do it, and I don't think they should sacrifice their artistic vision of the game for the sole sake of being inclusive.

(I feel I have to say this because typically, if you appose feminism, or believe in having male-friendly anything, you're seen as misogynistic scum.)

 

[Castle Doctrine]

That's not what I'm saying.
Historically gaming is seen as a male hobby but that doesn't mean women were never interested in it or had no interest in it.
It was mostly targeted to males, that's undisputable.
To deny that there's a huge portion of female gamers right now is denying an evidence that the study report.
That's what I'm saying.

But what do you think personally? I'm interested in what your experience has been. Have the females in your life, and females you hear about indirectly from acquaintances or even on a forum, been as interested in video games as much as males?

 

[Mael]

But what do you think personally? I'm interested in what your experience has been. Have the females in your life, and females you hear about indirectly from acquaintances or even on a forum, been as interested in video games as much as males?

My surroundings are not representative as far as political opinion goes so I don't know why I'd think they are as far as gaming goes.

 

[Moral Panic]

Is it out yet?

 

[GrizzNKev]

Is it out yet?

No.

I'll put my new estimates at 2018.

 

[Moral Panic]

No.

I'll put my new estimates at 2018.

Oh, the thread was getting bumped so I though maybe....

 

[Box of Bunnies]

Is it out yet?

The first episode is on the role of female characters in RPGs with a particular focus on the Final Fantasy series. It's set to launch alongside Versus XIII

 

[Gustav]

Thanks for the link. This is interesting stuff!

I'm willing to accept that broadly, men and women might trend towards different interests. But, as Anne Campell says, there's also overlap. There may be proportional differences, but there will also be women who enjoy technical things and men who trend towards empathy. We can't see what that overlap might be like in this particular newborn baby study because we don't know the sample size or how big the differences were.

It's also not clear how these differences would specifically apply to games, especially in light of numbers like the ESA survey. So I don't see this as evidence that developers shouldn't be inclusive of women in modern games.

I don't believe anyone ever argued that this is not the case.

 

[dragonelite]

No.

I'll put my new estimates at 2018.

So she is making Half life 3?

Still find it funny that people paid her to lecture them.
A good saying i was thought as a programmer that needs to read a lot of books.
"Learn from the masters not the students" im pretty sure she is not the master in her field
or she would be doing something different then a kickstarter.

 

[sonicmj1]

I don't believe anyone ever argued that this is not the case.

Good.

I was trying to get across that women should be included in the games industry as much as anyone else, because the biological differences between men and women, when it comes to interests, aren't absolute.

 

[Gustav]

Good.

I was trying to get across that women should be included in the games industry as much as anyone else, because the biological differences between men and women, when it comes to interests, aren't absolute.

I work in the industry. Nobody at my company excludes women.

 

[travisbickle]

Bring back the 80s!!

 

[sonicmj1]

I work in the industry. Nobody at my company excludes women.

I'm not attacking you or companies in the industry. I'm responding to this sentiment, which Kukuk supported with the footage in that documentary.

You're right, they do, but the vast majority of gamers are men. Most purchasers are men, and the industry wouldn't have grown like it did if not for the money men had spent.

So why bend over backward for a demographic that's largely uninterested in gaming?

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Why does the games industry need to be feminist friendly? Do people actually believe "the patriarchy" purposely push women out of it? The industry was largely built by males, for males, so why should everyone bend over backward to include women?

Oh, were going to argue with feminist talking points that have no basis in reality then?

Here's a fun fact that people seem to ignore: Women and men have different interests. They just do.

You can say marketing, or even "the patriarchy" is to blame for women not having the same numbers as men, but in reality, it just comes down to interest. It's why men are much more likely to take up technical jobs. That, in turn, explains why there are fewer women in the games industry: most jobs in game development are technical in nature.

I know it's not politically correct to say women and men are different, but "politically correct" and "correct" very seldom intersect.

Yes, I know, Neogafers are terrible offended by the politically incorrect, but if you step out of your comfort zone, you just might be able to find some logic.

Real logic. Not feminist logic.

Take note everyone, this is how hegemony perpetuates itself. Not with a bang, but with a whimper.

Actually this isn't an outdated principal. I was trying to find the link, but having no luck. The link was a pretty interesting documentary showing different experiments with babies.

The experiments were fairly simple. For the first one, they'd hold up pictures to newborn babies. They found that when the child had higher levels of testosterone, they focus more on pictures of mechanical object, where children with higher levels of estrogen focused more on pictures of faces.

Later on, they do an experiment with babies that were a few months old, where they set toys of different colors on a blanket, and the babies with higher testosterone gravitated to the boys' toys, while those with higher estrogen gravitated to the girls' toys. In this case it wasn't just important in showing genders had differences, but it was also used to help babies that had deformed genitals find their gender association.

Also, to deny that men and women are inherently different is to basically deny evolution. Men and women had to develop different traits to survive. Those different traits have just manifested themselves into different interests in our modern, post-tribal world.

I like how even if we accept your entire evopsych premise there is nothing in it to explain how or why that translates to videogames. I mean are we just doomed to only make videogames about mechanical objects because faces are too hard or something? Please, enlighten us.

Two things: The sample size is pretty small. 2000 households

Statistics, how do they work?

 

[Castle Doctrine]

My surroundings are not representative as far as political opinion goes so I don't know why I'd think they are as far as gaming goes.

I was looking at the study and as far as I saw it didn't break down what type of games males and females play. It says 47% of gamers are female, but what type of games are they playing? It would be an interesting piece of data and give us a better picture, and also something else to argue about. It would probably show us a divergence between male and female interests (not that we need a study for that, but I know you do /snark).

Anyway, the point of my argument is not to pretend there is no such thing as sexism. But I think some people are too quick to blame most of it on sexism and ignore natural differences between males and females.

 

[jimi_dini]

That's not what I'm saying.
Historically gaming is seen as a male hobby but that doesn't mean women were never interested in it or had no interest in it.

You mean "doesn't mean no women were ever interested in it". Which of course would be non-sense to think or say. There were female gamers of course, but very very very few. A really big majority was males. I just think back 20 years ago. Almost everyone with a PC was male. Was that because DOS excluded females in some way? Nope. Females were just not interested in this computer stuff that was really complicated with typing into a commandline - just like most non-nerds weren't interested in that kind of stuff. Nowadays that's different because controlling a PC is way easier than back then and there is also internet + social media etc. Even thinking back at BBS days, sure there were females, but I would say maybe 5% or 10% at most.

It was mostly targeted to males, that's undisputable.

Chicken + Egg. I would rather say because most people with computers were male, the market catered to them because of that. Which is the logical thing to do. Those people were called nerds back then and were outsiders.

To deny that there's a huge portion of female gamers right now is denying an evidence that the study report.
That's what I'm saying.

It depends on what gamer is to you. For a study, this includes everyone. Playing one minigame for 5 minutes on an iPad? Playing a free web-game on the internet? That's definitely a gamer for that study. But such gamer doesn't matter for the console industry. Will those 47% females purchase the same amount of games, spend the same amount of money and time like the 53% males? I seriously doubt that. That's why such numbers are meaningless.

I'm currently boosting Red Faction Guerrilla multiplayer. And funnily we even got one female in our team. And that's a really rare case in my experience. If the study was right for consoles, then this shouldn't be a rare case. Of course I may not always know, that someone I'm boosting with is female, but most of them are kinda obviously male.

 

[Platy]

We are REALLY acepting "women don't play game" as an argument to why the industry can't be SEXIST ????

The industry can't be sexist because NOTHING can be sexist.

There are proportionaly very few LGBT players in the gaming community .. so now it is ok to have a game where you beat up "those fags" ? =P

That is called respect, not pleasing an audience

 

[I H8 Memes]

We are REALLY acepting "women don't play game" as an argument to why the industry can't be SEXIST ????

The industry can't be sexist because NOTHING can be sexist.

There are proportionaly very few LGBT players in the gaming community .. so now it is ok to have a game where you beat up "those fags" ? =P

That is called respect, not pleasing an audience

And which game is it where you beat up "those fags". That is an absolutely terrible and over the top comparison.

Let me give you a more accurate comparison. Both men and women buy books. Far more women than men buy romance novels and books like the Twilight series. We should change the way those types of books are written to more accurately portray mens sexuality.

 

[Karkador]

Let me give you a more accurate comparison. Both men and women buy books. Far more women than men buy romance novels and books like the Twilight series. We should change the way those types of books are written to more accurately portray mens sexuality.

Would that be a bad idea? They might sell more books, at least. Even from a pure business perspective, why wouldn't you want to make something that differentiates itself and speaks to people that you weren't reaching before?

I don't think people are arguing that all media in a given category needs to change for one demographic. What people are upset about is that there is so little variety in the creative voices currently speaking. From an artistic/creative standpoint, this is absolutely choking the industry.

It's easy for the people who easily relate to the characters in games/movies/comics/etc to feel like nothing is wrong. But when you really start to look at how few heroes or relatable characters women really have in media, when every female character HAS to be a sex goddess or a conniving bitch or a vulnerable healer or an evil queen or a victim....it's absurd bullshit. I really can't help but think "damn, you girls really have so little to latch onto or care about in these stories".

So why would women care about these media when they don't see themselves in it? Or worse, if it's kind of an insulting portrayal of them? How many times have you scoffed at some game's existence because it wasn't designed for you? Or it's exclusive to some platform you dont like, even. That's how women have to feel about TONS of games. Unlike guys, who can find pleeennnty of men in games to relate to and idolize, for various reasons, girls have so very little.


This is how we end up with a console gen of repetitive cookie-cutter shooter games, and the stereotype that games are for little boys. It really doesn't have to be that way. Expanding the voices in our media benefits EVERYONE if it means a healthy variety of stuff to enjoy.

 

[jimi_dini]

Why would women care about these media when they don't see themselves in it? Or worse, if it's kind of an insulting portrayal of them? How many times have you scoffed at some game's existence because it wasn't designed for you? Or it's exclusive to some platform you dont like, even. That's how women have to feel about TONS of games.

This is one of the first games I ever played:

And one is for sure, I have not seen myself as a cat. If I would have cared about that, I probably would not have played it. But then it would have been my own fault for selecting a game purely based on a player characters appearance.

Hell, I play Uncharted although I really despise Nathan Drake.

Just take a look at Ico sales. Why did it sell so badly? Because there is a little boy with a stick on the cover. I doubt that the sales would have been higher with a little girl with a stick on the cover. But I guess it would have sold tons with a bald space marine with a big rifle + a chainsaw on the cover. It's as simple as that.

Spoiler

don't look at me, I bought Ico, because I don't care about such things

Many games today are also designed for ADD people with no actual substance. Cutscenes, explosions, press forward to win, etc. That sucks of course, but still I totally understand why those are produced. I also dislike hollywood blockbusters with shiny shiny CGI and no substance. But I also understand why those are produced. Because the masses want those. The masses buy those. And the producers of those games+movies just give those masses what they want. If the masses would primarily buy games a la Dark Souls, the console industry would primarily produce those.

 

[Platy]

And which game is it where you beat up "those fags". That is an absolutely terrible and over the top comparison.

Let me give you a more accurate comparison. Both men and women buy books. Far more women than men buy romance novels and books like the Twilight series. We should change the way those types of books are written to more accurately portray mens sexuality.

The last game I can think where you beat LGBT people is Final Fight =P

I was giving an example of how you don't need a HUGE gay crowd to know that you need to act respectfull to the gays in the same way you don't NEED TO HAVE A HUGE women crowd to start acting respectfull to the women.

Women are like more than 50% of the world ... and yet they are 20% of the gaming characters TOPS ?

Like I was saying in other thread, from the nes to the 64 the gaming world had THOUSANDS of non humanoid characters because of the "Mascot" craze. There are still LOTS of non humanoid characters being created to this day.

Now give me a playable non humanoid female main character.

Amaterasu (Okami), Diddy Kong (DKC 2 and 3) and Amy (sonic adventure) and ... that is it.

50% of the world's population ... and the gaming industry can't say a PINK BLOB is FEMALE

 

[Karkador]

And one is for sure, I have not seen myself as a cat. If I would have cared about that, I probably would not have played it. But then it would have been my own fault for selecting a game purely based on a player characters appearance.

Animals can still be given human characteristics that we relate to, even though we're not that animal. But I haven't played that, so I can't comment directly. Still, you're sidestepping the problem by saying "you can just relate to the non-females, then".

Hell, I play Uncharted although I really despise Nathan Drake.

Even if he's an asshole, it's probably better than being a pair of boobs or a character who was just there to get killed.

Just take a look at Ico sales. Why did it sell so badly? Because there is a little boy with a stick on the cover. I doubt that the sales would have been higher with a little girl with a stick on the cover.

To be fair, the art for the kid on that cover was weird and off-putting, and it had very little marketing from Sony.

If the masses would primarily buy games a la Dark Souls, the console industry would primarily produce those.

As a huge fan of that game, I wouldn't want that outcome, either. The point I was making was that variety is good, and the idea that women won't ever like games or whatever nerdy thing is as bunk as thinking Call of Duty will live forever. If the mass market producers can change to capture the next big thing, they can surely adjust themselves to welcome more people, too.

 

[Riposte]

We are REALLY acepting "women don't play game" as an argument to why the industry can't be SEXIST ????

Only insofar jockstrap manufacturers are sexist.

 

[pargonta]

As I was the one to bump this and bemoan the lack of transparent public updates 48 hours ago,
I felt obligated to post again saying that an update has been posted via social media sites!
https://twitter.com/femfreq/status/308011247910133761

March 7 is the announced date for the first video. it will appear on the feministfrequency youtube channel.

 

[HyperCubed4]

I'm pissed that it's taken her so damn long to release a damn video. Hasn't she missed a bunch of her deadlines? I'd love to hear her opinions, but hurry the hell up. As bitter as I am about the time it's taking for her to make these videos, I'm still very interested in what her first video will be.

 

[idlethreats]

I'm pissed that it's taken her so damn long to release a damn video. Hasn't she missed a bunch of her deadlines? I'd love to hear her opinions, but hurry the hell up. As bitter as I am about the time it's taking for her to make these videos, I'm still very interested in what her first video will be.

Did you donate to the Kickstarter?

 

[Kalnos]

so 5 days until a shitstorm of epic proportions, sounds good

 

[Revven]

I'm so glad people paid her to make a video series that she could very easily do for free. Can't wait to see when nothing comes out and people begin to get pissed off at wasting their money.

 

[HyperCubed4]

Did you donate to the Kickstarter?

No. For other reasons.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Youtube for the /v/gas is up, see here and here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cRVOMHFBEjA#t=2300s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cRVOMHFBEjA#t=3029s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=cRVOMHFBEjA#t=3289s


Or on Twitch
http://www.twitch.tv/vidyagaemawards/b/373126916 (skip to 2:15:55 and 2:32:25)

On the /v/ga awards they had mister investig8tive jorunalizm (the guy who made the horrible second Anita video) presenting the awards where Tropes vs Women in Video Games won for crimes against gaming (and videogame terrorism and such) and for the biggest cashgrab, even acknowledging that the original kickstarter amount was only $6,000, but rehashing the same arguments this and every forum went through (same videos she had been making all this time, how dare she give a TED talk, etc.)


For a breakdown of the votes see here

http://vidyagaemawards.com/voting/results

For votes coming off a NeoGAF link, Tropes didn't win but was still second or third

I'm so glad people paid her to make a video series that she could very easily do for free. Can't wait to see when nothing comes out and people begin to get pissed off at wasting their money.

Oh hi welcome to page 2... and Kickstarter in general

 

[AlucardGV]

I'm so glad people paid her to make a video series that she could very easily do for free. Can't wait to see when nothing comes out and people begin to get pissed off at wasting their money.

i don't think they'll be pissed, they'll probably defend her even more. you know, some of those comment on her kickstarter page "after the trolls attack i want to donate more!"
maybe this time her arguments will be good, who knows. can't wait to see tons of people dissect her video

 

[Metroidvania]

so 5 days until a shitstorm of epic proportions, sounds good

I dunno about shitstorm, but it will be interesting to see what she does, how in depth she goes about choosing what games, and what she's been up to in terms of her actual kickstarter project.

As for the video, undoubtedly it'll have the trolls coming out in full force, be far too inaccurate or over/mis-analyzed for others, leave some with genuine differences of opinion who aren't going to troll/bitch about it, leave some agreeing with her points (depending on how she phrases them), and some will praise her word as gospel.

...Basically similar to the life and times of her kickstarter project in general thus far.

Whatever the case, this will probably be the most critically-examined/deconstructed piece of video game analysis ever.

 

[Lowlander2]

March 7th.

I'm going in with a fresh mindset. My only expectation is a fair, thought-provoking analysis that encourages debate from multiple angles. That, or a clear, singular definition on how to fix this problem. Either one will do.

If not, I will have words with a number of people, and I'll want a clear, singular definition on how to fix *this* problem.

 

[UrbanRats]

so 5 days until a shitstorm of epic proportions, sounds good

I'm scared.
I expect more threads about that, than 8GB GDDR5.

 

[Mononoke]

March 7th.

I'm going in with a fresh mindset. My only expectation is a fair, thought-provoking analysis that encourages debate from multiple angles. That, or a clear, singular definition on how to fix this problem. Either one will do.

If not, I will have words with a number of people, and I'll want a clear, singular definition on how to fix *this* problem.

So far, most of her work hasn't really been that neutral - in offering a perspective on all sides. She takes a pretty hard stance on things, and is pretty aggressive w/ little room to debate. She's teaching you something, because she knows what is the right answer.

I hope I'm wrong - and this is more debate oriented.

Sadly, I doubt any of this matters. I expect people to rage out regardless. I haven't cared for her work up to this point. But I'm not against her, just because she's pointing out things I don't want to hear (which I feel is what a lot of people are doing). So I'm actually rooting for this to be great.

 

[casabolg]

For the people looking at the female gaming demographics:

>"80% of female console gamers prefer the wii"
http://www.joystiq.com/2009/11/26/nintendo-80-percent-of-female-console-gamers-prefer-wii/

Out of total game players we have
>"The biggest group makes up what NPD calls "Secondary Gamers" (33.6 million), mostly female gamers who play less than four hours a week and don't own a console."
http://www.gamespot.com/news/us-gamer-population-170-million-npd-6214598

Just fyi.

 

[Platy]

(skip to 2:15:55 and 2:32:25)

http://www.twitch.tv/vidyagaemawards/b/373126916

On the /v/ga awards they had mister investig8tive jorunalizm (the guy who made the horrible second Anita video) presenting the awards where Tropes vs Women in Video Games won for crimes against gaming (and videogame terrorism and such) and for the biggest cashgrab, even acknowledging that the original kickstarter amount was only $6,000, but rehashing the same arguments this and every forum went through (same videos she had been making all this time, how dare she give a TED talk, etc.)


For a breakdown of the votes see here

http://vidyagaemawards.com/voting/results

For votes coming off a NeoGAF link, Tropes didn't win but was still second or third

CRIMES AGAINST GAMING ????

Ok ... now they are just being cliche versions of thenselfs ... it CANNOT be serious

 

[casabolg]

CRIMES AGAINST GAMING ????

Ok ... now they are just being cliche versions of thenselfs ... it CANNOT be serious

They very much are. To them it works like this:

-Got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to nitpick videos with stereotypes that are already easy to spot and some way too much. (If you have a woman in a weak role that means they're saying all women are like that!)
-Forcing their feminist ideology on the market by claiming victimhood and telling the men to give the women what they want rather than empowering women to do make change, thus against the ideas of first wave feminism
-Missed her deadlines and cried wolf when people hounded her
-Mostly just poor ideology for the person doing this and people blowing up something to a far bigger degree than they believe it is.

Reminder, this is not my views. This is my reflecting /v/'s views from the time I spent with them.

 

[Luminous_Reaver]

I rather prefer the idea that videogame turn boys into violent murderers over violent misogynists.

Also I keep forgetting that Sarkeesian is one of those radical antipenis feminists. Makes me so angry to watch her rant about stuff entirely onesidedly. Why couldn't she have been born in the 50s? She could bitched about the dehumanizing lack of female representation in the media that the was patriarchy strictly imposing.

 

[casabolg]

I rather prefer the idea that videogame turn boys into violent murderers over violent misogynists.

The issue with video games causing sexism by practicing it has come out a few times but it hasn't been as widespread. Hopefully because of the double standard of saying sexism or 'rape culture' is caused by things like video games but violence.

However their main argument is not what it does to males but how disrespectful it is to females to keep seeing their gender in a submissive role and in roles that are sexualized for the sake of men (Honestly I have no problem with bayonetta from a feminist point of view. She basks in her own beauty and is emotionally dominant.) because men are the vast majority of avid gamers and women in a pretty big but growing minority.

I think it would be nice to get more female leads. That's about all I agree with though.

 

[QaaQer]

They very much are. To them it works like this:

-Got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to nitpick videos with stereotypes that are already easy to spot and some way too much. (If you have a woman in a weak role that means they're saying all women are like that!)
-Forcing their feminist ideology on the market by claiming victimhood and telling the men to give the women what they want rather than empowering women to do make change, thus against the ideas of first wave feminism
-Missed her deadlines and cried wolf when people hounded her
-Mostly just poor ideology for the person doing this and people blowing up something to a far bigger degree than they believe it is.

Reminder, this is not my views. This is my reflecting /v/'s views from the time I spent with them.

e.g.

I rather prefer the idea that videogame turn boys into violent murderers over violent misogynists.

Also I keep forgetting that Sarkeesian is one of those radical antipenis feminists. Makes me so angry to watch her rant about stuff entirely onesidedly. Why couldn't she have been born in the 50s? She could bitched about the dehumanizing lack of female representation in the media that the was patriarchy strictly imposing.

 

[wildfire]

This is an outdated principle. There isn't a biological hardcode that dictates people's tastes, mannerisms or attitudes from birth based solely on chromosome makeup. If there was, there probably wouldn't be ANY women in gaming at all.

Yes there is a biological hardcode. It has nothing to do with gaming. Don't confuse one issue of the human condition with the other.

 

[N4Us]

Remember that Tropes Vs Men thing?

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id...ery-and-fraud-of-tropes-vs-men-in-videogames/

 

[firehawk12]

Remember that Tropes Vs Men thing?

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id/...in-videogames/

Thrown together protest project turns out to be a fraud. Who knew.

 

[Platy]

Remember that Tropes Vs Men thing?

http://www.gameranx.com/features/id...ery-and-fraud-of-tropes-vs-men-in-videogames/

Many vocal opponents of Tropes vs Women in Videogames leaned heavily on the conjecture that Anita Sarkeesian had run away with the dough, despite all evidence to the contrary throughout production. That the video series launched as a counterpoint to feminist criticism would prove to be a blatant scam seems almost too ironic to be true.

LOL

But sad
I kinda wanted to see their views on it ....

 

[Metal Gear?!]

CRIMES AGAINST GAMING ????

Ok ... now they are just being cliche versions of thenselfs ... it CANNOT be serious

They very much are. To them it works like this:

-Got paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to nitpick videos with stereotypes that are already easy to spot and some way too much. (If you have a woman in a weak role that means they're saying all women are like that!)
-Forcing their feminist ideology on the market by claiming victimhood and telling the men to give the women what they want rather than empowering women to do make change, thus against the ideas of first wave feminism
-Missed her deadlines and cried wolf when people hounded her
-Mostly just poor ideology for the person doing this and people blowing up something to a far bigger degree than they believe it is.

Reminder, this is not my views. This is my reflecting /v/'s views from the time I spent with them.

Yeah that's a pretty good summary of the complaints lodged in the /v/gas. That said "CRIMES AGAINST GAMING" is not serious and is not meant to be - it's awards show hyperbole as usual. That doesn't mean it doesn't represent some very sick and entrenched ideas within the gaming subculture - and the /v/gas did themselves no favors by allowing investig8tive to do the narration and using footage from the "beat up Anita" flash game unironically.

I rather prefer the idea that videogame turn boys into violent murderers over violent misogynists.

Also I keep forgetting that Sarkeesian is one of those radical antipenis feminists.

Hahaha thanks for the laughs. We needed that on the even of the release date.

In case you were serious, however...

The issue with video games causing sexism by practicing it has come out a few times but it hasn't been as widespread. Hopefully because of the double standard of saying sexism or 'rape culture' is caused by things like video games but violence.

This isn't a double standard.

Anyone seriously equating criticism about the portrayal of women in videogames with the "videogames caused this" hysteria that has come up every time a "crazy" person has shot up a bunch of kids since Columbine really isn't thinking very hard about it. Not Anita nor any of the other articles critical of the role of women in videogames are opportunistically blaming videogames when a man shoots up his girlfriend's or wife's workplace to get to her.

Instead of circling the wagons like /v/ and every other message board did and thinking of all criticism about videogames like the "violence in games causing mass murderers/spree killers" hysteria, think about it like general media criticism that every medium is subject to - what messages are being sent and what messages are being received? Think of it like advertising - what are they trying to sell and what is being sold?

"Society" vehemently disapproves of murdering your wife or girlfriend, co-workers, groups of random strangers, or especially schoolchildren. So even if it were a message that "videogames" were trying to impart, it wouldn't mean much, since "society" pushes back on it so strongly. But if you stop to consider what messages they could push that would reinforce the dominant societal narratives... well that's a whole different picture, isn't it?

No, "videogames" are not causing people to just decide one day to grab a gun and go on a murder spree, and we rightly revile those who have made such claims. But are they reinforcing dominant societal narratives about war and heroism? Are they boosting recruitment for and creating public support for perpetual war and occupation? Are they playing on and promoting cultural fears of apocalyptic terrorism or invasion by foreign hordes, even to people who live in a country that militarily outspends all others combined? Are they reinforcing recent cultural narratives about the efficacy of barbaric torture as a means of gathering information? Or are they going against them?

Once you've performed that thought exercise, think about the depiction of women in videogames in that light. If women are underrepresented in videogames, then the remaining depictions gain all the more clout. That women are so often kidnap victims/prizes to be won might not mean so much if that was a much smaller proportion of their role in games... or if it wasn't so common in other media as well. And while no one takes away the message that "it's ok to just kidnap women," it is worth asking if this does effect how we think about the agency of real women... or make judgments about their vulnerability.

 

[Mesoian]

So tomorrow huh?

Interesting stuff. Well, let's hope she took the time to think this stuff out.

 

[Metal Gear?!]

Well 20 or so hours to go until we see if she makes her self-imposed deadline...