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[SkeptiMism]

Nonsensical internet drama.

Why should Nintendo replace the main character of one of the most beloved gaming series?

They're replacing him already every single time pretty much.

 

[Malcolm9]

Yeeeesh. And okay but most of the people with this sentiment, dead-set against a female protagonist, are actually junior members. I counted. Coincidence, probably, still notable to me.

Trying to let it go.

Being a junior member doesn't make any difference.

I'm 34 and I've been playing the series since it's birth on the NES. For me the game does need freshening up, but not to the point where you mess around with the gender of long established characters, or being able to use a custom avatar.

Some of the ideas or theories touted on here are ridiculous at best.

 

[caleb1915]

What's with all the posts like this? I'm also glad that Link isn't getting a gender swap... Does that mean I'm against playing as a girl, or female characters in general being in games? No. No it doesn't. It just means I don't want Link to be a girl, and I don't think there's anything weird or wrong about being happy that he's still essentially the same character he's always been.

Why can't people look at a new character and say "Oh cool!' instead of "OH GOD WHY ARE YOU CHANGING SOMETHING AFTER 20 YEARS OF BEING THE SAME THAT ISNT MY PLAYER AVATAR!"

Because people were honestly upset that the main character was now a girl, not that it wasn't Link (Where you can totally change the character's name if you want), but because you wouldn't be a guy in the new legend of zelda.

 

[JB-the-Hunter]

This is just completely wrong to me. He's a player avatar. So are Mario and Samus. Sonic and Ryu aren't, they talk a lot in their games and are often part of a larger playable cast. Samus stays female because of the whole twist that she was a girl the whole time. They knew that a mostly male fanbase would be playing her as a player avatar, and they thought it'd be fun to have there be a twist that she was a girl the whole time. People liked that, so they kept it. Mario stays male because it'd be incredibly hard to come up with a marketable female Mario design, as it is very hard to market incredibly short, chubby girls with mustaches wearing clothing that doesn't reveal anything.

Are you actually being serious? Mario, Link and Samus are player avatars to you?

I can't...

 

[Galactic Fork]

He's James Bond, or The Doctor. A set of iconic personality traits & immediately recognizable regardless of who plays them. Some people argue that things like gender are an inherent part of what makes those characters who they are. If Nintendo's argument that Link is, and always must be male - it's understandable from an artistic perspective.

Except Aonuma also just said that he was supposed to just be a projection of the player. And really? He's got personality traits? He's generic silent protagonist.
Also, all those James Bonds are supposed to be the same guy. The Links are all different individuals. Born at different points. It's not the same thing. And the BS zelda games let you play as a boy or girl, and it was pretty popular... Well for the people who owned the Satellite thingie.

I could see a female Link, but I couldn't see a "choose your gender" Link. To say that the gender of the character has effectively zero influence over their place in the community, and their relationship with Zelda - seems out of place in a distinctly fantasy-focused franchise. It also kind of kills the illusion - past LoZ games felt like you were interrupting a kid's life to engage in this massive adventure. Having a "Pick a Link" screen beforehand really takes that illusion away.

Then have differences in dialog depending on what gender you choose. It wouldn't be the first game. The point is, he Link is supposed to be a projection. If you like the original looking Link, then choose that one.

 

[Not]

Still, really weird of Aonuma to say that the character in the Zelda teaser wasn't necessarily Link, only to later confirm that it was indeed Link.

Looks like he was just being his highly-untranslatable jokey self

 

[Reuenthal]

He should not have come out and clarified for at least a week but continued with can't confirm or deny. I wonder how long the thread would have gotten

 

[Log4Girlz]

Why can't Link be a girl?
And Link "staying the same" doesn't make sense because he has no personality or development, he's just an avatar for the player.

Each main game has a different person. Each iteration of the hero of time is a male. What's Nintendo telling young girls?

 

[Monocle]

Why do you think that people who are against a gender-swapped Link don't want a female MC? I personally am disappointed there is no female MC option in this (make that every) Zelda. But when the title comes that introduces gender equality for the player character I want her to have a distinct personality. I want a new character and not a lazy gender swap or I want Nintendo to commit to a specific female MC in a title.

That could be accomplished easily enough by making the next Link female and developing her personality as usual, with occasional nods to past incarnations of Link. It could be seriously interesting. The history of the character would be an asset if the writers were clever enough to play off of people's expectations.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

He was talking about the other parts of the trailer, like the shot with death mountain and that ship in a desert.

Another interesting comment I've heard, quite frequently actually, is that, "Oh Link's a woman. Link is female now."

Even if you assume that the entire rest of the interview doesn't focus in any way on the debate he references here, the fact fact remains that he acknowledged the fan theory out of the blue and didn't call for a stop to it even though he had the floor. The MMGN interview makes it sound as though he never wanted people to focus on the character at all from the get-go.

edit: Actually how did Link's gender become a bigger debate than liiterally everything else in the trailer.

As far as NeoGAF goes, I like to think that it was a rather convincing mega-post. No, I'm probably not going to stop linking to that post: I'm proud of the research and work I put into that post!

 

[caleb1915]

Maybe I wasnt clear enough; I meant that now all the whining can stop about wether is a girl or not. Some people were just overly reacting and wanted it to be a girl, I mean why care so much? I'm fine if it would have been a girl, and zelda would be a prince, if it was worked out well enough story wise, gameplay wise etc., but ultimately it comes down to the gameplay, graphics music etc.
I guess I just dont understand such a commotion about it being whatever gender.
I am extremely excited for this new iteration. Looks like they will finally adress all the negatives thats plagued this franchise for so long now. I edited my original post with this

Yeah, you really weren't very clear in your post. When someone says Thank god in the context of a discussion it usually doesn't mean they're thankful that a discussion is over.

 

[Kyouji]

That was not a strawman argument. If you'd bothered to read my follow up you will have seen that I said I wouldn't mind a female Link but did not think this one was from the trailer.

Oh, all right. How's that "misrepresenting people who were hoping for a female protagonist" working out for you? And I don't see anyone being called out as misogynistic for saying Link is/looks like a dude in the trailer, but some exasperation at posts that amount to "thank god they didn't change anything about the protagonist!".

 

[Wolfe]

Beyond that, there's this post of mine in the thread about the original remark, where I conclude that the designers seem to have deliberately made Link look vastly more biologically female than any Link iteration had before. This thing has led me to effort justification bias that acts as my single biggest factor in questioning the MMGN article.

Lol cmon now, vastly? You're grasping for straws here.

"He's got long hair/pony tails? Vastly more girl than before."

Edit: to clarify I would agree if you had said "slightly" or "somewhat" but vastly is blowing his design differences way out of proportion imo.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

Looks like he was just being his highly-untranslatable jokey self

If we all had universal sci-fi style translators this kind of stuff wouldn't happen.
I'd love to here what Aonuma or Miyamoto would sound like without an accent.

 

[Not]

Being a junior member doesn't make any difference.

I'm 34 and I've been playing the series since it's birth on the NES. For me the game does need freshening up, but not to the point where you mess around with the gender of long established characters, or being able to use a custom avatar.

Some of the ideas or theories touted on here are ridiculous at best.

I know. I'm not a fan of the "junior members" tag honestly cause it causes you to leap right to conclusions and give in to your preconceived notions about people. Even though we definitely disagree.

 

[PdotMichael]

They're replacing him already every single time pretty much.

He looks pretty much the same - changing hair colors is like the only thing that happened to him over the years.

Link's recognizability is one of the most important points of the Zelda series. Especially with all the art style shifts.

 

[SkeptiMism]

He looks pretty much the same - changing hair colors is like the only thing that happened to him over the years.

Link's recognizability is one of the most important points of the Zelda series. Especially with all the art style shifts.

And how would him being a female change any of that exactly?

 

[DangerMouse]

Except he didn't. In fact, he encouraged continuing it just a matter of hours before the interview that started this thread was released.

He was talking about the other parts of the trailer, like the shot with death mountain and that ship in a desert.

edit: Actually how did Link's gender become a bigger debate than liiterally everything else in the trailer.

Nope.

Eiji Aonuma: That might be something that consciously we kind of did, but not to say anything specific – I am not saying anything specific – but, I am hoping people continue to comment, and I will continue to follow the fan comments and reactions to the trailer. I am certainly curious, and I am sure there are things we as developers can glean.

He clearly was encouraging/pushing people to continue to comment about both this topic and the trailer.

 

[Mushroomer25]

I'm pissed there are no female iterations of these guys too.

White dudes, white dudes, as far as the eye can see... everything was white dudes

And that's because the character that the artists behind those series' have a vision in their head of who "The Doctor" or "James Bond" is.

I'll go with the Doctor Who example because I've actually discussed it at length in the past. I think it's entirely possible for a new doctor to be female (it's actually cannon within the franchise for Time Lords to switch gender upon regeneration) - but I completely understand why nobody has done it yet. That franchise (and in many ways, LoZ as well) is deeply rooted in a sense of tradition & continuity. There's always a blue phone box as the Tardis. There's always a companion. There's always a man who makes clever quips and always finds a way out of those situations. For the people running the show, who often consider every bit of the series to be gosphel - is it still Doctor Who if you don't have a man in a suit, grasping the hand of a woman who accompanies him on the voyage? Even if you disagree with the arguement, you have to understand the perspective some people are coming from.

(Also, I have some personal issues with the stagnation of the Doctor/Companion relationship as well. The reason Donna was such a fantastic part of the series, is that she broke apart every notion of who a "companion" is. Amy/Rory was more enjoyable than straight Amy, because it introduced a new dynamic to the setup. Yet, here we are in the latest series with bloody Clara, who is yet ANOTHER white girl from contemporary England (but now with an unintelligible mystery attatched!).)

 

[ponpo]

They should just leave Link's gender unnamed, keep the androgyny, and replace Princess Zelda with a royal cute puppy that you have to save. Everyone wins! Link is now whoever you'd like!

 

[daffy]

This is just completely wrong to me. He's a player avatar. So are Mario and Samus. Sonic and Ryu aren't, they talk a lot in their games and are often part of a larger playable cast. Samus stays female because of the whole twist that she was a girl the whole time. They knew that a mostly male fanbase would be playing her as a player avatar, and they thought it'd be fun to have there be a twist that she was a girl the whole time. People liked that, so they kept it. Mario stays male because it'd be incredibly hard to come up with a marketable female Mario design, as it is very hard to market incredibly short, chubby girls with mustaches wearing clothing that doesn't reveal anything.

I'm not even sure where you're going with this, but these reasonings sound like they came right out of Nowhere, Kansas POP: 1. I can assure you that Mario, Samus, and Link are more than just player avatars. They have become characters through their interactions with the gameworlds and supporting characters. Just because they aren't running off at the mouth doesn't mean they lack characterization. My mind is quite frankly blown that you seem to think Mario and Link are player avatars in the year 2014. Samus maybe I can see, but even she was given characterization in Prime, maybe even farther back than that.

I just hope they never make Metroid a girl. Ugh, how would she even fire her arm cannon without shrieking and trying to cover her ears?

I'm not trying to be rude. But this thing you're doing is extremely annoying and I literally groan in pain everytime you post this sarcastic tripe. You've done it twice now. Can you please stop?

 

[ramyeon]

Oh, all right. How's that "misrepresenting people who were hoping for a female protagonist" working out for you? And I don't see anyone being called out as misogynistic for saying Link is/looks like a dude in the trailer, but some exasperation at posts that amount to "thank god they didn't change anything about the protagonist!".

I took that as "Thank God... We can finally put this to rest". I suppose I just interpreted it differently. Now it looks like the author has clarified and that was their intent.

Look, I'm not out for a fight. No need for hostility.

 

[Malcolm9]

I know. I'm not a fan of the "junior members" tag honestly cause it causes you to leap right to conclusions and give in to your preconceived notions about people. Even though we definitely disagree.

Well at least the thread isn't boring

I'm just interested in how the game will play when it's eventually released, I'm loving the art style.

 

[Madness]

I just hope they never make Metroid a girl. Ugh, how would she even fire her arm cannon without shrieking and trying to cover her ears?

Uh what? Are you trying to be funny or a smart-ass? Because I clearly said Samus, and have played every iteration of the games for the past 20+ years. Samus is a female. Metroids are parasitic organisms that the series is named after.

 

[Kurt]

In the end, link is al elf.
See lotr as example (they look more female by default then a none elf).

 

[Night_Trekker]

I'm actually pretty disappointed. My major complaint about the Zelda series post-OoT is that, for all the big risks Nintendo is willing to take with the series (and they're pretty good about that with many of their big IPs), they don't go far enough, and the games end up feeling too samey at times.

Oh well. The game still looks great. And I can keep hoping for a spritual successor to Majora's Mask, with it's dark, weird narrative.

Some people on gaming side are way too hostile towards discussions that involve sexuality, gender, and race.
Seeing so many people be bothered by the idea of a female Link is rather sad.

Gosh, I wonder why that would be. Have you taken a look at the OT lately? Or maybe you LOVE all that draconian PCness.

 

[Not]

He looks pretty much the same - changing hair colors is like the only thing that happened to him over the years.

Link's recognizability is one of the most important points of the Zelda series. Especially with all the art style shifts.

It has a lot to do with the outfit IMO and it looks like they might be ditching that here. Too soon to say though.

 

[SomeRandomWeirdGuy]

If you want to play as a girl, that's fine. Ask to play as Zelda, or to make a new female character. But Link has always been male, and I'm sorry that some of us think he should stay that way.

If that was a brand new female MC, I'd be completely cool with that. But as long as it's Link, he should stay male.

 

[RMS Gigantic]

Lol cmon now, vastly? You're grasping for straws here.

"He's got long hair/pony tails? Vastly more girl than before."

I said in that first sentence, and I quote, "Ignoring the eyelash/eyebrow matter, the ponytail, and..."

 

[ramyeon]

It has a lot to do with the outfit IMO and it looks like they might be ditching that here. Too soon to say though.

The chances of them ditching the tunic and cap are slim to none.

 

[PdotMichael]

And how would him being a female change any of that exactly?

In the same way as if you suddenly turns Samus into a male space marine.

 

[WrenchNinja]

As somebody who always just plays as "Link", that never really altered it for me. It felt like more of a standard trope of the RPG/adventure genre, rather than a real part of the world. Changing the name doesn't really impact who that character was before you picked up the controller. Changing the gender (in most cultures), would. So it doesn't break the illusion for me.

Well it's good to know names don't matter but gender does for a character that has no personality, goals, or dreams.

 

[MisterGrey3000]

In the end, link is al elf.
See lotr as example (they look more female by default then a none elf).

Hylians aren't really Tolkien style elves.
Zelda's lore makes it sound like they're just an offshoot of regular humans(The round eared people in Ordonna would probably count as "regular humans").

 

[Monocle]

I'm not trying to be rude. But this thing you're doing is extremely annoying and I literally groan in pain everytime you post this sarcastic tripe. You've done it twice now. Can you please stop?

I'm making a point in a way that's amusing to me. There are lots of other posts to read if you don't appreciate mine.

 

[Vermillion]

In the same way as if you suddenly turns Samus into a male space marine.

Samus is a single character.

Link is many characters.

 

[Hatchtag]

Are you actually being serious? Mario, Link and Samus are player avatars to you?

I can't...

Are you being serious? In what ways aren't they? Aside from literally the worst games in each series (CDi games, Other M), they're characters that rarely have dialog and don't have many character traits aside from bravery and perseverance, traits they solely obtain because of actions by the player, and not traits they inherently have. If they were actually more so characters than player avatars, it'd be very odd seeing Mario participate in sports and karting competitions, or seeing Link constantly have his artstyle and backstories changed, or seeing Samus become completely dependent on men. Hell, that actually did happen. Samus was given a (horribly written) character, and people hated it. They could no longer place their selves in her shoes.

 

[Log4Girlz]

If you want to play as a girl, that's fine. Ask to play as Zelda, or to make a new female character. But Link has always been male, and I'm sorry that some of us think he should stay that way.

If that was a brand new female MC, I'd be completely cool with that. But as long as it's Link, he should stay male.

There are several timelines, each with its own link. It's not really one character. Why not have one be a girl?

 

[kadotsu]

That could be accomplished easily enough by making the next Link female and developing her personality as usual, with occasional nods to past incarnations of Link. It could be seriously interesting. The history of the character would be an asset if the writers were clever enough to play off of people's expectations.

I agree. I probably wasn't clear enough. I'm personally just against the "choose Link's gender" option. I want either Nintendo to commit to a female hero of time or to create an additional female hero of time template (in execution similar to P3P) to solve the problem for all future titles.

 

[technocritter]

Gosh, I wonder why that would be? Have you taken a look at the OT lately? Or maybe you LOVE all that draconian PCness.

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't getting a good chuckle out of the people on both sides

 

[Thaster]

Looks like this'll put all the speculation to rest.
It would have been pretty cool if Link was actually a female though.

 

[Madness]

Each main game has a different person. Each iteration of the hero of time is a male. What's Nintendo telling young girls?

They are telling young girls, especially after the story of Skyward Sword, that "Link" as the original character, was a male Hylian who vanquished evil once was cursed and will forever be reborn to fight that evil. He's the hero of time. Can young girls not play the series because Link is always a guy?

 

[eyeball_kid]

Well I met her in a club down in Old Hyrule
Where you drink red potions and they taste just like cherry cola
C-O-L-A cola

She walked up to me and she asked me to dance
I asked her name and in a dark brown voice
She said, "Zelda"
Z-E-L-D-A Zelda, ze ze ze ze Zelda

Well, I'm not the world's most physical guy,
But when she squeezed me tight she nearly broke my spine
Oh my Zelda, ze ze ze ze Zelda

I'm not dumb, but I can't understand
Why she look like a woman but Aonuma says a man
Oh my Zelda, ze ze ze ze Zelda, ze ze ze ze Zelda

 

[SkeptiMism]

If you want to play as a girl, that's fine. Ask to play as Zelda, or to make a new female character. But Link has always been male, and I'm sorry that some of us think he should stay that way.

If that was a brand new female MC, I'd be completely cool with that. But as long as it's Link, he should stay male.

There's nothing wrong with you personally thinking Link should stay male, but there's absolutely no real reason for why he should remain as male. He's a different person every single time. Just because things have always been the same before, doesn't mean they necessarily should remain that way. So no, people wishing Link to female for at least one single reincarnation continue to ask for him to be her, not to play as Zelda and you should understand that.

 

[ponpo]

What if they made Link a girl and Zelda a boy

Spoiler

and now you play as Zelda and have to rescue Link ( ≖‿&#8790

 

[AnathemicOne]

If you want to play as a girl, that's fine. Ask to play as Zelda, or to make a new female character. But Link has always been male, and I'm sorry that some of us think he should stay that way.

If that was a brand new female MC, I'd be completely cool with that. But as long as it's Link, he should stay male.

Why? Is it because of brand recognition or Zelda lore?

If the latter, Nintendo seems able to pull off a female-looking Link by just the speculation that happened regarding the new trailer.

If the former, Link serves as an avatar/descendant for each installment in the series, there is no rule stating Link is always a male.

 

[Partition]

In the same way as if you suddenly turns Samus into a male space marine.

I'd argue that is completely different. Samus isn't re-incarnated with every single game. It's one person. Link is hardly ever the same Link save the few direct sequels.

Also, as someone previously mentioned in this thread, part of the intrigue of Samus is that being a female is a surprise to players; as it's assumed to be a male character at first.

 

[Wazzy]

I still don't believe him.

But if it turns out completely true, I'll eat my crow and also be super pissed.

 

[Wolfe]

I said in that first sentence, and I quote, "Ignoring the eyelash/eyebrow matter, the ponytail, and..."

So then you admit your argument holds no water whatsoever, great.

Or feel free to explain how exactly his design is "vastly" more feminine than previous iterations.

 

[anaron]

Well this is terribly disappointing

 

[Not]

Hylians aren't really Tolkien style elves.
Zelda's lore makes it sound like they're just an offshoot of regular humans(The round eared people in Ordonna would probably count as "regular humans").

"Blessed by the gods to hear their words" or something. Even if its a retcon for a 1987 game starring a little elf, it's interesting