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Art Self Study |OT| Putting the Fun in Art Fundamentals

think about some of these things:

1) what do you want to do with your art: express something? find a job? have it as a skill? enjoy it as a hobby? a combination of these?

2) what do you suck at, and where do you want to improve? be specific as possible.

3) what do you normally love to draw, and what do you typically hate to draw? why do you love or hate that subject?

4) what inspires you? is there something you want to create that the world is missing? what do you need to do to get there?

if you can answer these four questions, you can create a "structure" because you know what your specific goals will be. it's okay if you're not sure for some of them, but it would help if you provided yourself specifically what you're driving at.

if you cannot draw something, it is because you are lacking in either skill, knowledge, or both. every artist at every level struggles with skill and knowledge. if you are finding problems with your work you are missing one of two things:

1. knowledge: draw a bike from your imagination. are you sure that's what a bike looks like? look at an actual bike. draw it. then draw the bike from your imagination again. what did you remember? compare it to the bike you drew the first time.

if you suck at drawing feet, spend a day studying feet. and make sure it's actually studying. as in, test yourself. you might have done some copies from loomis, but do you remember what the proportions of the foot actually are?

this is what studying actually is. it's not perfectly replicating a master study (there is value in doing that) nor is it copying a photo. you need to be able to pick apart and analyze each element of your study subject to fully understand it. proportion, color, composition, lighting, pose, gesture.

2. skill: can you draw a straight line? how about an ellipse? can you draw with gesture? do you understand perspective? do you understand composition, lighting and color? is your hand obeying your thoughts? can you draw quickly? can you draw without petting your lines, or without fuzzy lines? these are just examples of how you can improve your skill.

sorry if i'm rambling, hope this helps

That's a lot of questions, but I think they are interesting as quite a few of them are things I haven't put into words before. I guess my desire isn't concretely laid out and I should probably answer these questions before I proceed further.

If you cannot attend classes and have to study alone, then I recommend looking into some of the more popular and respected books on the matter, tutorials in the internet (the best of them might cost something). Set goals on what you want to improve and then focus on that one thing at a time.

Try to find other people who want to practice with you. Join art forums, they have challenges and people can give you feedback. It's very important to publish your work in steady intervals and get honest feedback, it's the only way to improve and get used to the professional work culture.

Just set goals and be disciplined in going towards those goals.

Are there any books/sites that you can recommend? For books I've heard the names of Andrew Loomis and stuff like the Famous Artist's Course. I also have the Right Side of the Brain book but I heard that one isn't that great.

I'd recommend some books by Andrew Loomis, for those looking to study the craft and practice.

Spending a lot of time drawing is what you need to do, but make sure you aren't building up bad habits in doing so. Things like poor anatomy and technique can be easy to fall into, and tough to retrain yourself out of.

Yeah, I suppose the only way to find out is to have someone else look at your work to see if your'e doing anything wrong. That's why before I go in I want to find out as much as possible before so I'm prepared.
 

DEATH™

Member
That's a lot of questions, but I think they are interesting as quite a few of them are things I haven't put into words before. I guess my desire isn't concretely laid out and I should probably answer these questions before I proceed further.



Are there any books/sites that you can recommend? For books I've heard the names of Andrew Loomis and stuff like the Famous Artist's Course. I also have the Right Side of the Brain book but I heard that one isn't that great.



Yeah, I suppose the only way to find out is to have someone else look at your work to see if your'e doing anything wrong. That's why before I go in I want to find out as much as possible before so I'm prepared.

Most of it is already in the OP, but in general, you want to at least have books that will help you understand how to capture illusion of depth, and books about human figure

For Illusion of Depth, You need a Color Theory Book, Perspective, and General Painting book that will adequately talk about Edges. Books by James Gurney (Color and Light and Imaginative Realism), Scott Robertson (How to Draw, & How to Render) and Richard Schmid's Alla Prima 2 should be adequate IMO. But these books would not generally help you on how to master your software of choice if you are using digital, so getting a software-exclusive books and some couple of books and magazines from ImagineFX, 3DTotal, and some of your fave artists out there would be handy.

For the Human Figure, I will prefer you to learn in this order:

1. Gesture (keep practicing this even when you are working beyond! Vilppu's Drawing Manual helps to guide you along with Proko's Gesture vids)

2. Portrait Drawing (Loomis Drawing the Head and the Hands & Gary Faigin's Facial Expressions)

3. Figure Drawing (Loomis Figure Drawing for all it's worth, Vilppu Drawing Manual)

4. Anatomy Studies (at this point you will collect a bunch of books as nothing covers everything.)

5. Drapery + Fashion (For drapery, Barbara Bradley's Drawing People helps, but get the drapery chapter of complete famous artists course too. Keep your resources few as possible until you get the gist of it, as EVERY AUTHOR PRESENTS DRAPERY IN DIFFERENT WAYS and it will confuse you like it did mine. For fashion, a fashion illustration instructional book isn't required, but understanding how fashion flats work and having resources and inspiration from such is indispensable).
 

DrBo42

Member
Readjusted some of my primary forms

pU2o8c6.jpg

Further readjustment and starting work on secondary. Threw in some quick pores as a test. Still needs a ton of work. Have to figure out how I'm going to make an alpha out of his suit's almost chainlink style pattern and apply it seamlessly.


Initial work on symbol

 
So as I currently look for work, I decided to expand my knowledge and started using Blender to learn 3D Modelling (and plan to expand into animation,rigging etc.

Well I watched a few tutorials (mainly to set up an efficient workflow with the program as the shortcut lists are insane in a good way)

First results after working 6 hours on a full body model:

first_tryomsj5.png


handxxsfj.png


I haven't done any sculpting work on it, all done by vertex modelling. The Nose and eyelids were proper challenges.

I must say, this is freaking intoxicatingly fun. Even if I can't find work in this field, I'm definetly going to continue doing 3Dwork.
 
This is a project re creating a scene from the cartoon "Steven Universe" in Maya, I am modeling, texturing, and lighting everything. Any feedback would be great. Trying to make it look like the show as much as possible. I've been working on this for the past few months and need some feedback to continue. Like, if something doesn't 'feel' right about the materials or the proportions look wrong somewhere.




Here's some reference pictures



 

DrBo42

Member
This is a project re creating a scene from the cartoon "Steven Universe" in Maya, I am modeling, texturing, and lighting everything. Any feedback would be great. Trying to make it look like the show as much as possible. I've been working on this for the past few months and need some feedback to continue. Like, if something doesn't 'feel' right about the materials or the proportions look wrong somewhere.






Here's some reference pictures

Rad. Materials wise there's too much of a gradient in the colors, you need something that will give you flat colors to match. That's if you're going for a direct replication.
 

DEATH™

Member
Guys, I'm currently studying edges right now and somehow understand the concepts of it in painting. My problem now is being able to create those edges cleanly in digital. What tools do you guys use? When I use a typical digital blender, I just get the middle mix color of the two shapes I want to blend, and then that middle color tend to have a somewhat crisp edges, instead of a softer edge that I want. But if I use a airbrush, the edges I get are waaaay too soft, and I can't control the width of the edges I want. I somehow can't get that hardness that I could control. Any help on this?

I am using Clip Studio Paint BTW. I might actually consider Photoshop again as much as I hate it just for that round brush goodness.

EDIT Just went to try photoshop again and got reminded why I use other programs in the first place... Dat laggy brush.
 
I'm trying to learn figure drawing and positioning the rib cage, but have a hard time visualizing in my head. The approach I'm trying to use is to draw cubes to represent the pelvis and rib cage combo, which i can do, but I can't seem to figure out how to draw the shape of the rib cage so that it fits into the cube properly. Is there a trick to getting that down? I hope that makes sense
 

LegendX48

Member
I'm trying to learn figure drawing and positioning the rib cage, but have a hard time visualizing in my head. The approach I'm trying to use is to draw cubes to represent the pelvis and rib cage combo, which i can do, but I can't seem to figure out how to draw the shape of the rib cage so that it fits into the cube properly. Is there a trick to getting that down? I hope that makes sense

I'm taking a figure drawing class at the moment and the method we learned is the bean method. You just draw two ovals, one representing the ribcage and the other the pelvis. You connect them into a bean or flour sack shape. I'd suggest giving that method a shot, see if it changes anything up for you.
 

olympia

Member
I'm trying to learn figure drawing and positioning the rib cage, but have a hard time visualizing in my head. The approach I'm trying to use is to draw cubes to represent the pelvis and rib cage combo, which i can do, but I can't seem to figure out how to draw the shape of the rib cage so that it fits into the cube properly. Is there a trick to getting that down? I hope that makes sense

Have you seen this proko video

https://youtube.com/watch?v=0660Fuih7qo
https://youtube.com/watch?v=yqxPHew5bGQ
also show us your sketches
 
Readjusted some of my primary forms



Further readjustment and starting work on secondary. Threw in some quick pores as a test. Still needs a ton of work. Have to figure out how I'm going to make an alpha out of his suit's almost chainlink style pattern and apply it seamlessly.



Initial work on symbol

Looking good. Kind of looks likes a weird mix of Henry Cavill and Alex Ross' common rendition of Superman.
 
I'm taking a figure drawing class at the moment and the method we learned is the bean method. You just draw two ovals, one representing the ribcage and the other the pelvis. You connect them into a bean or flour sack shape. I'd suggest giving that method a shot, see if it changes anything up for you.


I don't really like the bean/pillow because it doesn't show planes.

I used proko's approach and have a hard time identifying the landmarks like the 10th rib and if the box is tilting up(show bottom plane) or down(show top plane). He says to draw a line from the top mid clavicle down through the 10th rib to mark the front plane, but I get confused on which one is the 10th if it's not super defined.

So my issues are:
1)how do I fit a box to fit the rib cage in the proper alignment
2)how do I know when to show the bottom plane vs top plane
3)how do I identify landmarks

Here are the model and a couple of different attempts. The second one I tried using perspective to see if that made sense.

Can someone draw the box as it should be and identify the landmarks on the model? Ignore the rough lines...just threw this together.

C2VaWc3.jpg


eXB6EVT.jpg


JsMiLlS.jpg
 

DEATH™

Member


First of all, in my experience, Robo Bean sucks lol. It sucks because it tries to do both blocking out shapes (something the bean does well) and trying to line out the landmarks, but doesn't do both well.

So instead of trying to figure out how to fit the box in the ribs and the pelvis, how bout drawing the actual simplified ribcage and pelvis instead?


That's what I tend to do now. Draw the gesture first, do a bean, and then draw the anato bean. BTW the anato-bean is based of bammes' method. Proko does have those vids too at his anatomy course. (Look up the skeleton of the torso vid series). It will be much easier for you to learn a bit of anatomy to answer all your questions about robo bean tbh.

EDIT Also, remember your perspective!!! When the pibcage tilts, the edges shorten!
 
DEATH™;218086175 said:
First of all, in my experience, Robo Bean sucks lol. It sucks because it tries to do both blocking out shapes (something the bean does well) and trying to line out the landmarks, but doesn't do both well.

So instead of trying to figure out how to fit the box in the ribs and the pelvis, how bout drawing the actual simplified ribcage and pelvis instead?



That's what I tend to do now. Draw the gesture first, do a bean, and then draw the anato bean. BTW the anato-bean is based of bammes' method. Proko does have those vids too at his anatomy course. (Look up the skeleton of the torso vid series). It will be much easier for you to learn a bit of anatomy to answer all your questions about robo bean tbh.


EDIT Also, remember your perspective!!! When the pibcage tilts, the edges shorten!

Yeah, I think trying to force the points into a box is what is throwing me off. My idea is to follow the horizontal lines of the cartilage(?) at the top left/right of the sternum to get the angle and to find the 7th/10th rib for the lower angles. My question isn't so much about the anatomy right now as positioning the volumes in 3d space. Also, what did you mean about the edges shortening with tilt? Thanks

I tried making the shape based on those lines and points, but it looks off to me
Edit: I think maybe the top angle is throwing everything below off. Maybe my angle is getting off because I'm trying to follow the arm pulling up on the right?
9RH8lXU.jpg
 

DEATH™

Member
Yeah, I think trying to force the points into a box is what is throwing me off. My idea is to follow the horizontal lines of the cartilage(?) at the top left/right of the sternum to get the angle and to find the 7th/10th rib for the lower angles. My question isn't so much about the anatomy right now as positioning the volumes in 3d space. Also, what did you mean about the edges shortening with tilt? Thanks

I tried making the shape based on those lines and points, but it looks off to me
Edit: I think maybe the top angle is throwing everything below off. Maybe my angle is getting off because I'm trying to follow the arm pulling up on the right?

1. THAT SHOULDN'T BE YOUR APPROACH. The thing is aside from the thoracic arch, the cartilage isn't a accurate landmark. They change when they twist.

I think one of the things you are forgetting is the main landmark you should always go for first, which is the centerline. I noticed that most of your sketches do not have it, and it's super essential when you are drawing floating circles and boxes around. It will be the first landmark you should look for, it will determine the tilt of each ovals/boxes for you. Then look for other landmarks by estimating, using the proportion and anatomy knowledge you had.

For example, assuming you got the centerline already, ASIS will be easy to find, especially on a skinny model. Knowing that the 10th rib is about a fist higher than the ASIS, I can estimate where the 10th rib will be, even if it's hard to see.


So in a sense, learn the proportions and anatomy. And trust me, you can never be knowledgeable enough with it. I knew each and every muscle by name now and yet there are things that I miss that I won't know until I read it and/or pointed out by a instructor (in this case, Proko).

2. Second , Another one of your problems I think is lack of sense of perspective. That's what I meant when an edge shortening with tilt. The ribcage in this example you can show with a bit of 2 pt perspective. As much as I hate robo bean, It did force me to think about perspective when drawing the figure, making it much easier for me to draw anato bean in perspective.
 

East Lake

Member
Here's a rough guess. It's almost certainly a bit off but maybe it helps a bit.

D5nXtM4.jpg


I think you were on the right track with the boxes in this one. One thing that might help is guessing how much space the model actually occupies in perspective. Most portrait shots are done with longer lenses, photographers will often say this makes a portrait look "flat". So if you think about it in terms of one point perspective this means that your box, or her body is not going to recede in perspective very far. You'll have short vanishing lines. I put up a basic sketch labeled p (for portrait!) that shows this. The boxes label w (for wide!) have a slightly more aggressive perspective that's more like a wide angle lens. Very rough examples.

So to get back to the model. We have a portrait that's probably slightly flat perspective-wise, and that gets complicated because her body isn't upright but slightly rotated in a bunch of ways and we can't see where the equivalent spot is on her back, or see where her right ear is or all the other height equivalent spots on her body.

I think for now try to avoid getting it perfect and settle for a general guess, so if you use my ovals we can see as you move up the picture we will generally see more of the underside of the oval, unless there's a rotation which you can think of like a cylinder tipping toward or away from you.

*Now that I look at it I think my guess at the head might be off (might look more like breast area) but you get the picture.
 
DEATH™;218110001 said:

more stuff

Very helpful info. I'll try to incorporate that center line. What I was trying to do, as most drawing guides show, is to mark a line across the top of the chest, then a line for the center of the rib cage, then go from there. I also need some work on perspective. I mean, I understand the idea of it, but I don't process it very well when looking at things

So, in a way, I sort of was on the right track in my original 2nd example. It's just confusing when some angles it looks like I have to show perspective and others I can get by with mostly parallel lines

I'm definitely not wanting to ignore anatomy;quite the opposite. I was just trying to grasp how the volumes fit and this pose was really confusing me. I'm one of those people who has to know the absolute correct way something should work, so it turns into a bit of an obsession where I can't progress until I know. This stuff is hard >_<
 

East Lake

Member
It can help if you try to get your perspective right on more simple drawings, like buildings or things that have more basic shapes. Then when you go to deal with harder drawings it'll feel more intuitive and easier to guess how it is structured. Scott Robertson's book is good for perspective.
 
Couple of additional questions.

So I was playing around with perspective and wondering how you determine the vanishing points? Especially when there are 2 different directions an object is facing. Like in the model above, her hip is facing one way and the chest another, which would mean different points, right?

The other question is using canonical proportions. Some use heads(8, 7.5), while others use cranial units. However, how do you even apply those when the body is not upright? Seems like they go out the window once twisting and turning are introduced
 

.JayZii

Banned
Couple of additional questions.

So I was playing around with perspective and wondering how you determine the vanishing points? Especially when there are 2 different directions an object is facing. Like in the model above, her hip is facing one way and the chest another, which would mean different points, right?

The other question is using canonical proportions. Some use heads(8, 7.5), while others use cranial units. However, how do you even apply those when the body is not upright? Seems like they go out the window once twisting and turning are introduced
Objects only have the same vanishing points if they are parallel. If an object is introduced to a scene that is not parallel, it will have different vanishing points. The best way to find them is to create boxes like above (whether in your head or lightly sketched) and then follow the lines of the box to the horizon.

I found this confusing when learning too. Perspective books tend to give you 2 point perspective illustration with a bunch of parallel buildings, but don't then say that non-parallel objects wouldn't be subject to those same vanishing points.

-----
For canonical proportions in perspective, it's mostly drawing shapes from reference and then trying to recreate it from different angles from imagination. It's not quick or easy, but you need to learn how to turn a form in your head. Then measuring objects that are skewed in perspective will get easier.
 
Objects only have the same vanishing points if they are parallel. If an object is introduced to a scene that is not parallel, it will have different vanishing points. The best way to find them is to create boxes like above (whether in your head or lightly sketched) and then follow the lines of the box to the horizon.

I found this confusing when learning too. Perspective books tend to give you 2 point perspective illustration with a bunch of parallel buildings, but don't then say that non-parallel objects wouldn't be subject to those same vanishing points.

-----
For canonical proportions in perspective, it's mostly drawing shapes from reference and then trying to recreate it from different angles from imagination. It's not quick or easy,
but you need to learn how to turn a form in your head. Then measuring objects that are skewed in perspective will get easier.

Yeah, it can get messy when things are pointing all over the place. That was basically the approach I was taking; find an angle, like the ASIS points on the hip, and mark a line to the VP.

Proportions at extreme angles sounds like a like of guesstimation unless you get overly scientific with plotting points, which isn't something I would want to do
 
Is there any kind of app that shows motions of the skeleton/muscles? Or even better if I can pose it? I tried the proko skelly app, but it's not quite detailed enough. For example, if I wanted to see how the scapula/muscles would look when I put the arms straight ahead. That's my biggest problem with anatomy - I can't visualize in my head what things look like until I physically see them
 
Is there any kind of app that shows motions of the skeleton/muscles? Or even better if I can pose it? I tried the proko skelly app, but it's not quite detailed enough. For example, if I wanted to see how the scapula/muscles would look when I put the arms straight ahead. That's my biggest problem with anatomy - I can't visualize in my head what things look like until I physically see them

this would actually really help me out too, i have the same problem
 
this would actually really help me out too, i have the same problem

Proko's skelly app is pretty good if you want to pose a skeleton. Only problem is, if you don't know what it's supposed to look like, you might be putting some skeletal bits in wrong positions. It's at least a start, though
 
do any of you guys know of resources to help improve line quality? I've been wanting to improve the quality of my lines lately, especially with digital art.

I just started using a drawing tablet at the beginning of september for class, and i have improved since i started using it, but it's still a far cry from my ability to draw on paper (which still isn't that great imo lol)

anyways, if there are any exercises or videos that you guys know of i would appreciate the help
 

olympia

Member
do any of you guys know of resources to help improve line quality? I've been wanting to improve the quality of my lines lately, especially with digital art.

I just started using a drawing tablet at the beginning of september for class, and i have improved since i started using it, but it's still a far cry from my ability to draw on paper (which still isn't that great imo lol)

anyways, if there are any exercises or videos that you guys know of i would appreciate the help

can we see an example of your work? fwiw line quality is something you will never feel like you've mastered, as with many things in drawing.

Is there any kind of app that shows motions of the skeleton/muscles? Or even better if I can pose it? I tried the proko skelly app, but it's not quite detailed enough. For example, if I wanted to see how the scapula/muscles would look when I put the arms straight ahead. That's my biggest problem with anatomy - I can't visualize in my head what things look like until I physically see them

not an app but try the bridgman book "constructive anatomy" detailed breakdowns of different masses in a way that an artist can parse, especially wrt to origin and insertion points between the muscles and bones. also drawing from life would help you out. daniel maidman astutely observed that there are only certain things you can observe when you see the body actually moving. "visualization" is just memory recall, anyway.
 
can we see an example of your work? fwiw line quality is something you will never feel like you've mastered, as with many things in drawing

yeah, i definitely understand that

my goal for now is trying to get to a point where my lines don't look so sketchy, like when i watch videos of people drawing they don't go over their lines so many times, it's just one or two fluid lines, y'knoiw

as for uploading some of my work, i can do it, but i don't actually have anything on the internet right now lol, i'll go through my sketchbook tomorrow and take some pics

not really up for sharing any of my digital art yet because it's garbage rn. i still haven't really gotten used to just using the tablet (drawing with plastic on plastic)
 

kr2t0s

Member
do any of you guys know of resources to help improve line quality? I've been wanting to improve the quality of my lines lately, especially with digital art.

I just started using a drawing tablet at the beginning of september for class, and i have improved since i started using it, but it's still a far cry from my ability to draw on paper (which still isn't that great imo lol)

anyways, if there are any exercises or videos that you guys know of i would appreciate the help


I highly recommend this video series:

http://ctrlpaint.myshopify.com/products/digital-sketching-starter-kit

Also from ctrlpaint is this old video, but I still find it a helpful technique:
http://www.ctrlpaint.com/videos/sketching-lines
 
nothing too substantial, just some doodles and sketches, but you can kind of see what i mean with the line quality, it still has that really sketchy feel to it, and I run into a lot of trouble when i try to ink because of that



e: shoot double post i thought i was editing this into the one before it :x
 

Monocle

Member
yeah, i definitely understand that

my goal for now is trying to get to a point where my lines don't look so sketchy, like when i watch videos of people drawing they don't go over their lines so many times, it's just one or two fluid lines, y'knoiw

as for uploading some of my work, i can do it, but i don't actually have anything on the internet right now lol, i'll go through my sketchbook tomorrow and take some pics

not really up for sharing any of my digital art yet because it's garbage rn. i still haven't really gotten used to just using the tablet (drawing with plastic on plastic)
DrawABox.com's first two lessons, and the box and cylinder challenges, did wonders for my line quality. Do all of the homework at least once. It's the same stuff you'd practice in one of the kickass art schools in California. (The exact same exercises, in many cases, since the site's author attended Concept Design Academy, where Art Center alumns teach.)

Also, consider doing some blind contour drawing. If you keep at it you'll develop a tactile sensitivity in your lines, where it feels like you're touching an object with your pen as you draw it.
 
DrawABox.com's first two lessons, and the box and cylinder challenges, did wonders for my line quality. Do all of the homework at least once. It's the same stuff you'd practice in one of the kickass art schools in California. (The exact same exercises, in many cases, since the site's author attended Concept Design Academy, where Art Center alumns teach.)

Also, consider doing some blind contour drawing. If you keep at it you'll develop a tactile sensitivity in your lines, where it feels like you're touching an object with your pen as you draw it.

thanks, i'll definitely check these out
 
not an app but try the bridgman book "constructive anatomy" detailed breakdowns of different masses in a way that an artist can parse, especially wrt to origin and insertion points between the muscles and bones. also drawing from life would help you out. daniel maidman astutely observed that there are only certain things you can observe when you see the body actually moving. "visualization" is just memory recall, anyway.

I've seen that book recommended before. I need to check it out
 
I am part of my city's art trail show :)

finally finished this piece lol

CwoUZZ7VEAAeLte.jpg


this piece took forever so glad to be done
Cu_5L32VMAIQKwE.jpg



and my second piece for the show
CwoUWGMVQAAWwIb.jpg

I don't think this turned out as well because I kinda had to rush it

I have 10 more that size to work on for a solo show in Feb2017
enjoying the hard work tho
 
anyone know any good podcasts about the professional illustration business?

I am part of my city's art trail show :)

finally finished this piece lol

CwoUZZ7VEAAeLte.jpg


this piece took forever so glad to be done
Cu_5L32VMAIQKwE.jpg



and my second piece for the show
CwoUWGMVQAAWwIb.jpg

I don't think this turned out as well because I kinda had to rush it

I have 10 more that size to work on for a solo show in Feb2017
enjoying the hard work tho


welp you fixed them while i was typing this lol

those are really great! how big are they and what kind of paint is it?
 
So with figure drawing, how do you deal with drawing people clothed? In the sense that once clothed, you can't really follow any body landmarks. I lose all sense of proportion without them. Seems like most figure drawing guides and books are for nude study. Is it just a matter of drawing a lot of clothed people until you get the feel for it?
 
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