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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)

Riddick

Member

I can answer that for them, the clues were right there in the fight scene. Bruce didn't see Superman as a man, he says it right there, he sees him as an alien threat, a dangerous creature he must stop. The moment he sees him as a human who wants to save his mother his entire viewpoint collapses and sees everything from a different perceptive.

Admittedly though it's kind of subtle so I understand why Marvel wouldn't get it. Afterall, "subtle" is the last thing I would describe their writing and motivation of their characters as.
 

Veelk

Banned
I still think Winter Soldier was the better made movie and sits at the top of the MCU.

That's fine. I would agree that Winter Soldier is a more focused film. I always thought of it as Marvel's The Dark Knight in quality. I remember reading about how the Winter Soldier's theme is even reminiscent of the jokers in how it's a string whose tension is constantly rising but never outright snapping. But I like big ensemble films as well. I love it when friends and rivals are pitted against one another. It's just one of those tropes that resonates with me. Civil War does that so damn well. So it's my personal favorite.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
disgust at this marvel talk. Pretty sure theres a thread for that other movie

I liked the part where Scarlet Witch dropped a parking garage on Iron Man

BUT THE PARKING GARAGE COULD HAVE PEOPLE IN IT

pffftt where do you live? All my city's parking garages are automated ftw
 

Alienous

Member
Watched it again and it's definitely a good film. Haven't watched TC so don't know about original flaws much but UC is a good film.

Even if you don't like tone or story of the movie now there is nothing terrible about it. Technically its a very well made film

The TC wasn't a technically well made film.

And the UE/UC still has issues. The pacing is slow as hell (it felt like watching an introspective TV Drama), and the film is too long. Act 3 is a mess - a lot of the plot leading up to it just stops mattering in the face of 'Fight Night'. Lex Luthor is the victim of trash over-acting. I definitely wouldn't call it good. Competent, but not good.
 
30 minutes longer! But the pacing is better, it doesn't feel longer than The Dark Knight Rises.

it did to me. but then so did Civil War and Xmen and the theatrical version of BvS.

that's not a big complement to TDKR moreso than just pointing out how badly paced these movies have gotten. Last comic movie that felt as drawn out as these was Age of Ultron. It just keeps happening now.
 

Alienous

Member
Lex Luthor sucks.

A commanding Lex would have made for a great villain.

"Oh, how society caves in. Justice on the wane. Manners gone"
, or whatever pun-laden shit he spouts. It's garbage.

It's so bad.

I blame Snyder. There was no way for Terrio to work around that terrible creative casting choice. Awful.

And that fucking "hmmm" he does all the time. It's shit, Eisenberg.

Scheduling his diabolical plan on a cooking timer. Fuck you, Luthor.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
Marvel with shots fired.

X0tgiUk.jpg

Pots in glass houses shouldn't be throwing black kettles.

At least a sudden revelation their mothers shared names makes more sense than Zemo somehow knowing that Iron Man would unexpectedly show up to said secret base, and have mysterious "grassy knoll" footage ready and cued up.

Also, seriously on the second criticism? Did Spider-Man even see Age of Ultron?!??!
 

reckless

Member
Never got around to seeing the TC, so its hard to tell why is was so hated at release.

I really liked this, good 8.5/10 movie.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Oh jeez. Look, I'm a DC guy so on some level I get the frustration because Marvel is just roflstomping them at the moment but there's no need for this type of talk.
Stans, not fans. I'm a fan. I'm also a DC stan and you don't see me shitting on Marvel fan threads. "B-b-but would anyone think of Civil War the cinematic monolith of the century which was better made than BvS" NO SHIT, of course it was going to be better, it doesn't have to introduce many characters or world build, nor are its thematics as far reaching as BvS, and it comes from the Disney machine of factory production and its directors are better than Snyder at pacing and storytelling, specially for their mainstream sensibilities.

It's the best of the bunch, yes, but don't come here to shit on what is probably the first positive thread associated to this movie without any intention on watching the BvS UC, because you need to remember the world Civil War exists. And also, no one who liked Spider Man in CW has any right to whine about Wonder Woman in BvS imo. Bleh.
 
I can answer that for them, the clues were right there in the fight scene. Bruce didn't see Superman as a man, he says it right there, he sees him as an alien threat, a dangerous creature he must stop. The moment he sees him as a human who wants to save his mother his entire viewpoint collapses and sees everything from a different perceptive.

Admittedly though it's kind of subtle so I understand why Marvel wouldn't get it. Afterall, "subtle" is the last thing I would describe their writing and motivation of their characters as.
This starts off as sounding salty and then sounds like a troll. I don't even know what's real anymore.
 

guek

Banned
Lex Luthor sucks.

A commanding Lex would have made for a great villain.

"Oh, how society caves in. Justice on the wane. Manners gone"
, or whatever pun-laden shit he spouts. It's garbage.

It's so bad.

I blame Snyder. There was no way for Terrio to work around that terrible creative casting choice. Awful.

And that fucking "hmmm" he does. It's shit, Eisenberg.
He's ok 90% of the time, there are just a handful of moments where he overacts like crazy. The final moments of the jailhouse scene are particularly bad.

I actually ended up liking Luthor as a character more in the UC. That's partly because his machinations are easier to make out and partly because it felt like there was more of a clear delineation between when he's acting like a complete weirdo and when he's being serious.
 
Liked Luthor quite a bit when I watched this. "Martha Martha Martha" haha.

The performance loses me when he starts crying for no reason while in kryptonian swamp water and some of the weird ticks. If he dials back that dumb shit he'll be great.
 

Veelk

Banned
This starts off as sounding salty and then sounds like a troll. I don't even know what's real anymore.

Yeah. The superhero popculture has grown into this bizarre landscape where even the most outlandish opinions take root.

As someone who doesn't view more than half of the marvel movies as that good, I feel some people just take an anti-marvel stance to an extreme, where it doesn't matter how god awful a DC movie is, as long as it's distinct from Marvel, they'd say it's better just by virtue of not being a marvel film. We could have Catwoman 2, and people would defend it on the basis of "Atleast it's not another Marvel movie"

It gets pretty surreal.
 
it did to me. but then so did Civil War and Xmen and the theatrical version of BvS.

that's not a big complement to TDKR moreso than just pointing out how badly paced these movies have gotten. Last comic movie that felt as drawn out as these was Age of Ultron. It just keeps happening now.

None of the long films this year were as bad as Age of Ultron to me. Haven't had to check my watch wondering when it'll end yet, and realizing it's only been 80 minutes. Furious 7 is another one from last year where I tuned out from Dubai to the ending. They were in a city at some point. I don't know.

Batman v Superman UE makes 3/4th of the film a nice slow pace. Doomsday's fight I'm not a fan of aside from WW's introduction and Batman running away. Theatrical edition editing is jarring rushing from scene to scene.
 

Alienous

Member
Liked Luthor quite a bit when I watched this. "Martha Martha Martha" haha.

The performance loses me when he starts crying for no reason while in kryptonian swamp water and some of the weird ticks. If he dials back that dumb shit he'll be great.

He was either terrible or just tolerable.

His speech at the party is terrible. His talk with the senator is tolerable. His rooftop put-down of Superman is terrible. His talk when Doomsday is awoken, as far as I can recall, was tolerable. His talk in prison is terrible.

So much awful emanating from one character, and for what? It isn't good acting. It's just throwing in every nervous tic you can think of, from gestures to hmmmm's, and thinking you've created a compelling character. It's nothing but trash.

"Lo in the morning. Lois is slacks". What? Shut up.
 
Bro I was actually looking at the roof of the damn theater when I was watching Age of Ultron during a few moments. It might be the most boring one I've ever sat through (i never watched all of catwoman or green lantern or whatever so chill...)

I'll give 2016 capestuff that at least, I wasn't looking at the roof pondering my existence.

edit: dude what?! his rooftop put down of superman is fantastic. that surprised and nervous yelp he does when superman gets the red eyes was great.
 

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I like to think you're actually arguing with Deadpool and Spider-man

DID DEADPOOL EVEN SEE AGE OF ULTRON!!???!!? ;)

He was either terrible or just tolerable.

His speech at the party is terrible. His talk with the senator is tolerable. His rooftop put-down of Superman is terrible. His talk when Doomsday is awoken, as far as I can recall, was tolerable. His talk in prison is terrible.

So much awful emanating from one character, and for what? It isn't good acting. It's just throwing in every nervous tic you can think of, from gestures to hmmmm's, and thinking you've created a compelling character. It's nothing but trash.

I would have appreciated another Superman movie before this with Lex Sr. being a dick to him, explaining the character a bit more.

Could have been Clancy Brown, too, shaved bald. He woulda done it.
 

Ahasverus

Member
lol. Let's be honest, bro, you definitely used to ;-)

you haven't though in a long while which has been nice to see
I'll always hate Guardians of the Galaxy with a passion, can't help myself. But will always like Thor 2 The Dark World :)

No, really, I realized I wasn't contributing anything but bad blood so I just stopped doing it. It helped that the post Winter Soldier MCU has beenn good to amazing.

I thought him acting insane was a backup plan in case everything doesn't go his way.
Yep, I think that was the implication. He sounded very confident saying "I'm insane". As if it was planned beforehand.
 
Welp, thread ruined, thank you marvel stans.

Wow. Thread isn't remotely ruined. People have been discussing this film.

It's perfectly okay to post a response from a rival company in here and discuss the relative merits of their offerings and contrasting approaches. Conversations run their course. Let them.
 

Alienous

Member
I thought him acting insane was a backup plan in case everything doesn't go his way.

Then acting completely sane with a senator, and insane with Lois, Superman and Batman, doesn't exactly make for a good backup plan.

Show the world you're sane, but ham up the crazy in one-on-one conversations with people suspicious of you. For what?
 

IconGrist

Member
He's ok 90% of the time, there are just a handful of moments where he overacts like crazy. The final moments of the jailhouse scene are particularly bad.

I actually ended up liking Luthor as a character more in the UC. That's partly because his machinations are easier to make out and partly ...because it felt like there was more of a clear delineation between when he's acting like a complete weirdo and when he's being serious.

When he's talking to Finch at the Senate hearing is when this is best showcased. He's kind of being playful with her (even though he's clearly displeased with her opposition). Then she talks about knowing how to wrangle a pig (this is her saying she knows what Lex has done) and he responds with, "You know the oldest lie in America, Senator? Is that power can be innocent." His tone was very serious there. That one little line doesn't hit her until right before she dies and sees the glass jar full of piss. She underestimated their previous conversation and how far he was willing to go. Luthor was playing chess while she was playing hopscotch.
 

Veelk

Banned
I'll always hate Guardians of the Galaxy with a passion, can't help myself.

For me, it's more that I hate that I do like it. I wish I didn't.

It embodies everything I dislike about marvel...it's their same tired formula....but polished to a crystal shine where every facet of the film is extremely well done.

It makes me smile and laugh, and in my head I'm thinking "Fuck you" for doing so.
 

Ahasverus

Member
Then acting completely sane with a senator, and insane with Lois, Superman and Batman, doesn't exactly make for a good backup plan.

Show the world you're sane, but ham up the crazy in one-on-one conversations with people suspicious of you. For what?
He's not fit to stand trial. I think it worked.
 

Alienous

Member
edit: dude what?! his rooftop put down of superman is fantastic. that surprised and nervous yelp he does when superman gets the red eyes was great.

That nervous yelp and finger waggling belonged in an Alice in Wonderland movie. It was acting fit for the Scooby Doo films.

He's not fit to stand trial. I think it worked.

His rational public statements and appearances would say otherwise. The only time he hams it up is in private.
 
to be fair he killed the senator anyways.

i don't buy that he was acting insane though, it was an interesting controlled and eccentric performance at it's best and at it's worst he devolved into goofball ticks and bouts of tears.

the jail scene at the end, however. yeah he's definitely playing it for the guards and prison cameras to help his insanity plea. i don't got a problem with that one anymore.
 

onipex

Member
Watched the UC and it ties everything together better. I already liked the movie so this didn't change anything. After seeing CW for for the 3rd time and watching this I'll say that I still enjoy watching BvS more than CW. Outside of the airport scene I would even put CW in Marvel's top 5.

CW manages to be a better movie than BvS and Avengers 2 but more boring to watch than both. The real hero movie winner so far this year is Deadpool. Don't need anymore of these political superhero movies.
 

Riddick

Member
This starts off as sounding salty and then sounds like a troll. I don't even know what's real anymore.

How is that a troll? Are you talking about the explanation or the sarcastic jab at Marvel? Geez, everything's a "troll" nowadays. Do people know what the word even means anymore?
 

Veelk

Banned
One of Luthor's more interesting scenes was when he was giving the speech.

It was straight word salad, him trying to connect knowledge, power, greek figures into a disjointed and bizarre thank you speech to the donors present and being clearly unsuccessful at it. It was a small scene, but it was oddly fascinating to see him caught so off guard by something as mundane as having to talk to a large crowd. Which is why I believe his manic mannerisms aren't an act. I mean, otherwise, he just kind of embarassed himself publicly for no reason that I can see.

I'm not sure what the purpose of that scene was, other than to get the crowds attention away from Bruce so he can do his spy thing, but I find little, fundamentally meaningless scenes like that often add a bit of personality to characters. It shows there's more to them than the existing plot. I don't like this Lex Luthor, and I wish we had gotten one that was more normal, but I would still say that he's one of the lesser evils this movie commits. The worst thing you can say about him is that his motivation to hate superman isn't really coherent, but he's hardly the only one in that catergory.
 

MisterHero

Super Member
Lex acting incongruous to whatever you're supposed to feel is awesome

It's like he's trivializing his enemies' frustrations
 

Jake2by4

Member
Then acting completely sane with a senator, and insane with Lois, Superman and Batman, doesn't exactly make for a good backup plan.

Show the world you're sane, but ham up the crazy in one-on-one conversations with people suspicious of you. For what?

He was acting this way with the senator in the second meeting when he was talking about his father and in public too
 
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