But he knew that Lois was kidnapped and thrown off a building. There's something with Superman that requires some knowledge of the mythos: in some continuities he's memorized the heartbeats of all his loved ones so if they suddenly elevate or stop beating he knows it. It would explain why he knew exactly where to go to rescue Lois all three times but then why wouldn't he be able to do the same with his Mom. If the heartbeat thing isn't the case then it's doubly weird considering he only knew the vague place of where Lois was since she was hooded and driven to a secret location and the other time Lex Luthor kidnapped her then threw her off a building.
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Batman v Superman Ultimate Cut |OT| - Men are still good (out now)
- Thread starter Ahasverus
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But he knew that Lois was kidnapped and thrown off a building. There's something with Superman that requires some knowledge of the mythos: in some continuities he's memorized the heartbeats of all his loved ones so if they suddenly elevate or stop beating he knows it. It would explain why he knew exactly where to go to rescue Lois all three times but then why wouldn't he be able to do the same with his Mom. If the heartbeat thing isn't the case then it's doubly weird considering he only knew the vague place of where Lois was since she was hooded and driven to a secret location and the other time Lex Luthor kidnapped her then threw her off a building.
There was a deleted scene where he tried to look for her but his senses were overwhelmed with other people asking for help and due to the anguish he couldn't focus enough. Also, Luthor would have taken notice and order the death.
Also, this movie has to be the most nitpicked one ever.
The first thing he does when he confronts Batman after that is to try forming an alliance to save Martha. Dude isn't going to obviously risk Martha's life - the second he flew away from Lex, the call to kill her is put in. He's not going to find her that quickly.
What does this even mean? You're not offering a counterpoint either, just blithering on about how he's so wrong and you're so right.
300 is a perfect example of Snyder fetishizing violence. The imagery isn't presented in the way it is during action scenes to highlight anything about the characters apart from their propensity for violence. It even slows it down for you so the audience can soak in how much Snyder loves his violence for the sake of violence. There's no underlying subtext there, it's just there because he thinks it looks cool. That's not inherently a bad thing, every action movie EVER fetishizes violence to a certain degree. Where Snyder usually fails though is his violence often feels pointless. A great example of this is the scene in Watchmen when Laurie and Dan get jumped in the alleyway. Instead of shooting anything with even a remote sense of realism, Snyder opts for kicks and punches that send thugs flying, close ups on bones snapping, and gruesome killing blows. All of it is over the top and arguably excessive, which is a good or bad thing depending on your tastes. But that reaction only comes down to how much you enjoy violence for the sake of violence, because the scene sure as hell wasn't made like that for narrative purposes. All of that is ignoring the fact that Snyder thinks Rorschach is a friggin hero instead of a complete sociopath.
blacklotus
Member
Yeah. But we still got to feel that fuzzy feeling of Supes and Bats repecting each other for the first time. A feeling powered from all the comic books and animation movies series one has seen.
blacklotus
Member
?
Rorschach is way too complicated to be labeled hero/sociopath.
Edit: sorry, double posting.
But he has the wherewithal to tell Batman his Mom's name as he literally has a boot on his neck and is moments from death?
He's the thing about that though. Luthor says that if he flies away, she dies. This leads me to believe Lex has to have told his men "if you hear anything out of the ordinary, kill her" otherwise how would he know? Superman could fly towards Gotham in plain view of Lex, attempt to find his Mom, then take out the men without Lex knowing since he's Superman. If that's the case then when Batman is fighting the guys in the other room and firefly/the other goon are hearing all this they should've killed Martha right then because how were they to know it wasn't Superman?
The plan is ridiculous if it's Lex having to go "Superman isn't flying towards Metropolis, kill her" over the radio. I've only seen the movie once though so maybe the plan was different but that's how I remember it.
Edit: These aren't nitpicks to me, they're legit criticisms.
"Why would Superman say his Mom's name instead of 'Mom'?"
"How is Superman able to find Lois three times when she's in danger but not his Mom on two occasions"?
What is nitpicky about that?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
1. Because Batman should be at least able to find her.
2. I don't fucking know, how does he do that in the comics ?
1. This is a man in distress, beaten, anguished, and moments from death. He has the clarity to think "I should tell him her name so, even if he kills me, maybe he'll save her"? I find it hard to believe in a moment like that he would say his Mom's name instead of just "Mom".
2.
Yeah I'm familiar with the mythos. I don't think the heartbeat things applies in the DCU though. He knew where Lois was the in Africa because he was intentionally drawn there. He knew Lois was on assignment, and all the shit going down would've been enough for him to narrow down where she was (CIA tracking the location and sending in the drone).
I agree catching her when Lex threw her off the roof was a little weird though, but weird in the context that we don't know where he was prior. He was up hiking in the mountains talking to ghost dad and then suddenly he's back. It's not hard to find problems with it but it's also not that hard to just write it off as he was back or on his way back and actively looking for her. She was missing it would make sense for him to suspect Lex as he was behind the entire thing.
Jmanunknown
Member
It deserves to be nitpicked when you take a movie with three of the most famous and iconic heroes ever and mess it up. A lot of the stuff was unnecessary like take these two things for example Wonder Women felt forced into the movie like her role in the movie was not important at all and also the hilarious justice league file with the clips of the other league members and Lex had even designed logo's for them like WTF. Its should have been two movies in my opinion. Do Batman Vs Superman and than do the Dawn of Justice movie and have Doomsday be the villain for that movie.
When does he learn that Lex was behind everything? Is it in that moment or did he know before? If it's the former then there's no reason to go to Lexcorp.
Edit: We have the Africa scene, the Lex scene, and the underwater scene. Three instances where Superman appears to save Lois in moments of peril. IIRC he literally stops what he's doing for a second in his fight with Doomsday then instantly flies towards the water for Lois. There has to be something there.
The Cretan
Member
Just watched it. It was pretty good and this really should have been the theatrical cut. Just remove some really small things to get a PG-13 rating. The only problem I had was killer Batman.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
Well I mean technically, Batman was the aggressor in that situation, to Superman he had just stopped a robbery in progress.
And yet, Batman was able to save her without getting her killed but Superman couldn't?
The "Lois-sense" that he has is dumb because it's so random and without any hint as to how he can find her anywhere in any instance she's in danger but can't do the same for his mother. It's just not very well thought out, like a lot of little things in this movie. The thing is, it's not like they couldn't have given a logical reason why Clark couldn't find her. Luthor could have stashed her anywhere else on the planet or underground where Clark couldn't hear her heartbeat. But instead, she's just in some abandoned warehouse he could have probably spotted from a high enough distance.
One of the bigger issues I have with the way Snyder makes movies is it's possible to write him out of the holes he digs himself but the viewer shouldn't have to do that. There's a line between too much exposition and a lack of enough information. The lead in the wheelchair is another example. Any thinking viewer would ask, "How did Luthor know he can't see through lead?" I've seen a few explanations on this board, most stemming from Luthor being a scientist and having enough circumstantial evidence to probably figure it out. Sure, that's reasonable, but it's also NOT implied anywhere in the movie, so the viewer has to literally make up a probable explanation that's not found in evidence. Unless we're talking about some avant garde thought experiment film, which BvS is not, that's plain poor filmmaking.
Another example across the aisle would be where the hell Vision went during the airport battle in Civil War. The most logical explanation I can surmise is Vision was Tony's last line of defense for the Quinjet and promptly goes back to playing the role of keeper once the battle gets underway. When Giant Man shows up, he trades places with Widow, which is why she's in the hanger and he's not when Cap and Bucky show up. That sounds...reasonable enough to me. But it's still ultimately a made up answer that sounds like it fits but is only very faintly implied. It's still an example of suboptimal filmmaking.
"nitpick" is when you find flaws in tiny little details... but this movie has several problems with whole scenes that are important to move the plot forward. that's why the criticism was very heavy; not exactly "nitpicky"
it feels like there was no proper script supervision in pre production.
They had weapons and lock-on rocket launchers. I mean, Batman does too, but there's no real reason why Superman wouldn't stop the truck, other than wanting to let criminals go to spite Batman's methods.
blacklotus
Member
Yeah, i understand that. But still, he has been "working" for 20 years, and in the last years he has lost Robin and witnessed powerless the Metropolis/Superman thing. This while being a troubled mind might have made him slowly cater to the cruelty Alfred talks about.
It's weird, but it didn't bother me.
Also, when i say "lost Robin", i'm not saying Robin
is dead. I think he might be the Joker from suicide squad, tbh.
bearythebear
Member
It feels like Zack Snyder is way too much in love with the characters to do anything interesting...
The movie might as well be fanfiction at some point.
The movie might as well be fanfiction at some point.
hey, that describes me. Thanks for the info OP, I'll give the movie another shot.
GavinUK86
Member
Weird, I actually feel the oposite. I feel he just wanted to tell a "deep and dark" story with generic superheroes with generic flaws and a generic villain with a generic madness.
Nitpicking a superman movie is kind of like nitpicking a time travel story.
If you want to find holes in the logic it is just all too easy. Superman is such an outrageous character it's totally not hard to ask why this and why not that.
I will say though, there is a point where all the illogical moments can accumulate and be difficult to suspend your Belief n
Discotheque
Banned
I love that entire fight scene.
I thought he would be a slowpoke after seeing how bulky the suit was. But then I was shocked when he scurried along the room in his first scene, and then was wowed by the Arkham Warehouse scene.
As I've said it bothers me, because there is no coming back from being a killer for Batman. If you're going to have him kill, have it be like the Knightmare. Having him kill nonchalantly, and try to be justice-oriented Batman too, doesn't work for me. It ruins what could have been great Batman moments to come, which now are answered by "dude, just kill him".
It is like a big budget fan film, but from a fan who misunderstands the two leading superheroes. Killer Batman and Stoic Superman is trash to a fan of either character as an intepretation of them outside of Elseworld comics.
blacklotus
Member
Good post.
I might be remembering wrong but I thought after the bombing Lois told him about the conspiracy back at their place when he's out on the balcony being gloomy?
In the Doomsday fight he gets knocked away from the fight. He doesn't really stop what he's doing, but notices the sound of her banging on the debris prior to flying back to the battle.
Regarding your potential spoiler:
Ooh. That would be interesting. has any batman story ever done this?
Frank Miller, Zack Snyder's bestest Batman friend, did it in The Dark Knight Returns' sequel.
I finished the film last night and went to sleep. I planned on making a write up immediately after, but that didn't happen, so here are my final thoughts on it.
The actual core problem of TC was that the conflict of the main act fell on it's face entirely.
This is stupid. Despite the sparks of potential here and there, it's difficult to exaggerate this movie's badness because it is fundamentally broken at it's core by potentially the most idiotic and poorly written central conflict resolution I've ever seen in a superhero movie. Fuck this movie. .
The actual core problem of TC was that the conflict of the main act fell on it's face entirely.
The titular fight is nothing short of complete joke in it's badness and I still don't understand how Snyder thought he that it was acceptable work. It doesn't even look good. But what kills it is that it fails, even in the UC, to actually resolve the issues that batman and superman have with each other. The film does a much better making Superman an active character, as he's constantly searching for a story about batman. One of my biggest complaints is that Superrman just kind of....sat there, the entire movie in the theatrical cut and hated batman for very poorly defined reasons, but here it's much better presented, which, unfortunately, is saying much less than it sounds like.
It all comes back to the fact that their fight just doesn't resolve the issues they purportedly have. Batman is still a sadistic fuck who is happy to play judge to the criminals he encounters. There was a scene with a spanish woman who admits her husband had his issues but was also a good man at heart, and during the warehouse scene, passed the part where Batman supposedly changed, it's fairly clear he's killing the thugs there. In some ways, post the events of the movie, Batman is actually worse than before, because the Bat brand thing was just a sadistic power trip for him before and Lex was the reason people who were branded got murdered. So he was just torturing them for fun, rather than actively subverting the sentence they were passed by people of court, which was the actual thing that Superman had a problem with the Batman over: that he was circumventing the law by passing his own judgement on criminals instead of letting the people decide. So not only is he still killing thugs if it's convenient, he explicitely intercepts Lex Luthor's sentence of being sent to a max security prison in order to send him to Arkham Asylum, where he states he has influence, specifically to inflict his own personal torture on him. So anyone who says Batman has a redemptive arc in this movie, he doesn't. He still does the same thing he did before, just pointed at the 'right' person this time.
But we're getting off track. The point here is Superman. Superman shows up to the fight after the talk with Lex Luthor and goes "I was wrong." I can't think of what he could be referring to except his objection to Batman's methods, which make no logical sense. Because Luthor outplayed him and he has to do his bidding, that means the system he was defending up to now is broken? That the woman's pain he encountered before and sympathized with is null and void? If there was a "the system is broken" scene in there, it seems it got cut even from the UC, but even if there was, that's a really naive excuse to think that because Luthor got the better of him out of jail, that means humanities judgement on what to do with him in jail is not applicable. (also, on a more minor note, "I was wrong" is a complete non-sequitor to batman because Superman never talked to him about anything. Batman has no knowledge of what Superman is wrong about Great continuity there, Zacky)
Really, it was a narrative misstep to have him be try to connect with Batman here in the first place. Because, as far as Superman is concerned, the issue they had with each other is resolved and they have a new pressing problem, so there isn't conflict on his side. Luthor resolved Superman's problem with Batman before they even met. But instead, Superman's mannerisms here make no sense. First, he isn't capable of saying "Hey, listen, Luthor kidnapped my mom, please help me". He tries to, is interupted by something, then a long period of silence goes by while they....well, I can't describe it as anything else, Superman tries to physically bully batman into listening to him. I mean, for someone whose trying to ask a favor, Superman is aggressive as shit. Batman comes up to him, he shoves him away, he throws him through a building...yeah, Batman is being aggressive here, but it's not like he's actually hurting him. I've said before that it's bizarre how these characters cannot communicate except through aggression, and this is something that severely handicaps the relationship these guys can have. "Stay down! If I wanted it, you'd be dead already!" Why the fuck would you say that to him? All you do is validate that you are a threat and an oppressor whose willing to use his muscle to coerce people into doing what you want. Superman has no reason to fight him up until he uses kryptonite, but he's just trying to physically beat Batman into submission when no submission is necessary. So Batman is a bully who goes on power trips, but it's atleast implied here that Superman isn't any different. Even their reconciliation is framed as an reprimand and an order, not a plea. "You're letting them kill martha! Save Martha!" That's not a request for help, that's an order.
But as far as Bruce's perspective is concerned, I'd like to remind you that non of Lex Luthor's lies have been exposed to him, like with Superman (Lex only tells Superman that he pushed him over the edge by making superman look bad, but he still has every reason to believe Batman intentionally brands people to kill them). So Batman still has reason to believe that Superman was partially responsible for the senate bombing and all that. And, of course, as many have pointed out, Superman's power still remains a threat regardless of his present intentions. He still had that dream where he was definitively right about Superman, (Flash told him about Lois before he ever knew there was a connection between Superman and Lois). So both of them still think the other is guilty of everything they were before the fight.
Which is ultimately why the martha thing is so absurd. Here you have these two hyperaggressive meatheads that seem literally incapable of communicating if it's not through aggression, throwing their weight at each othere, demanding that one falls in line with the other, and this is all changes and they become friends? No. Nothing relating to their issues is resolved and they even when Supes was trying to initiate a cooperation, they were still utter dicks to each other about it. Like, even if they would be willing to work with each other, it's laughable they'd be partners of any sort, because they would be at each others necks fighting for dominance over the moment they didn't have another common enemy to go at. A lot has been made about the Martha moment being this big epiphany for Batman, that he took the place of Joe Chill in his memories by trying to murder Supermman, but none of that has to do with anything happening here.
BvS simply didn't know how to have these characters just fucking talk to each other, and as a result, it was impossible for them to reconcile their conflict, so the writers just gave up on it. In a way, the UC fight is worse because now that we have a more legitimate reason why Superman has issues with Batman, it's all the more frustrating to see them throw it away. All that time Clark spent investigating people, empathizing with the woman who lost her husband, trying to figure it all out, is literally thrown out the window because his mom is in danger, and that apparently means all the principles Superman holds dear fly out the window and he's willing to relinquish a psycopath of all responsibility for his actions. Similarly, Batman sees Superman as this danger to society, someone who can wipe out the human race if they fell under evil influences of some kind, someone whose entire interaction with him was spent with him trying to coerce him into doing things he didn't want to do, all that is null and void because he has an existential crisis about the name martha.
It all comes back to the fact that their fight just doesn't resolve the issues they purportedly have. Batman is still a sadistic fuck who is happy to play judge to the criminals he encounters. There was a scene with a spanish woman who admits her husband had his issues but was also a good man at heart, and during the warehouse scene, passed the part where Batman supposedly changed, it's fairly clear he's killing the thugs there. In some ways, post the events of the movie, Batman is actually worse than before, because the Bat brand thing was just a sadistic power trip for him before and Lex was the reason people who were branded got murdered. So he was just torturing them for fun, rather than actively subverting the sentence they were passed by people of court, which was the actual thing that Superman had a problem with the Batman over: that he was circumventing the law by passing his own judgement on criminals instead of letting the people decide. So not only is he still killing thugs if it's convenient, he explicitely intercepts Lex Luthor's sentence of being sent to a max security prison in order to send him to Arkham Asylum, where he states he has influence, specifically to inflict his own personal torture on him. So anyone who says Batman has a redemptive arc in this movie, he doesn't. He still does the same thing he did before, just pointed at the 'right' person this time.
But we're getting off track. The point here is Superman. Superman shows up to the fight after the talk with Lex Luthor and goes "I was wrong." I can't think of what he could be referring to except his objection to Batman's methods, which make no logical sense. Because Luthor outplayed him and he has to do his bidding, that means the system he was defending up to now is broken? That the woman's pain he encountered before and sympathized with is null and void? If there was a "the system is broken" scene in there, it seems it got cut even from the UC, but even if there was, that's a really naive excuse to think that because Luthor got the better of him out of jail, that means humanities judgement on what to do with him in jail is not applicable. (also, on a more minor note, "I was wrong" is a complete non-sequitor to batman because Superman never talked to him about anything. Batman has no knowledge of what Superman is wrong about Great continuity there, Zacky)
Really, it was a narrative misstep to have him be try to connect with Batman here in the first place. Because, as far as Superman is concerned, the issue they had with each other is resolved and they have a new pressing problem, so there isn't conflict on his side. Luthor resolved Superman's problem with Batman before they even met. But instead, Superman's mannerisms here make no sense. First, he isn't capable of saying "Hey, listen, Luthor kidnapped my mom, please help me". He tries to, is interupted by something, then a long period of silence goes by while they....well, I can't describe it as anything else, Superman tries to physically bully batman into listening to him. I mean, for someone whose trying to ask a favor, Superman is aggressive as shit. Batman comes up to him, he shoves him away, he throws him through a building...yeah, Batman is being aggressive here, but it's not like he's actually hurting him. I've said before that it's bizarre how these characters cannot communicate except through aggression, and this is something that severely handicaps the relationship these guys can have. "Stay down! If I wanted it, you'd be dead already!" Why the fuck would you say that to him? All you do is validate that you are a threat and an oppressor whose willing to use his muscle to coerce people into doing what you want. Superman has no reason to fight him up until he uses kryptonite, but he's just trying to physically beat Batman into submission when no submission is necessary. So Batman is a bully who goes on power trips, but it's atleast implied here that Superman isn't any different. Even their reconciliation is framed as an reprimand and an order, not a plea. "You're letting them kill martha! Save Martha!" That's not a request for help, that's an order.
But as far as Bruce's perspective is concerned, I'd like to remind you that non of Lex Luthor's lies have been exposed to him, like with Superman (Lex only tells Superman that he pushed him over the edge by making superman look bad, but he still has every reason to believe Batman intentionally brands people to kill them). So Batman still has reason to believe that Superman was partially responsible for the senate bombing and all that. And, of course, as many have pointed out, Superman's power still remains a threat regardless of his present intentions. He still had that dream where he was definitively right about Superman, (Flash told him about Lois before he ever knew there was a connection between Superman and Lois). So both of them still think the other is guilty of everything they were before the fight.
Which is ultimately why the martha thing is so absurd. Here you have these two hyperaggressive meatheads that seem literally incapable of communicating if it's not through aggression, throwing their weight at each othere, demanding that one falls in line with the other, and this is all changes and they become friends? No. Nothing relating to their issues is resolved and they even when Supes was trying to initiate a cooperation, they were still utter dicks to each other about it. Like, even if they would be willing to work with each other, it's laughable they'd be partners of any sort, because they would be at each others necks fighting for dominance over the moment they didn't have another common enemy to go at. A lot has been made about the Martha moment being this big epiphany for Batman, that he took the place of Joe Chill in his memories by trying to murder Supermman, but none of that has to do with anything happening here.
BvS simply didn't know how to have these characters just fucking talk to each other, and as a result, it was impossible for them to reconcile their conflict, so the writers just gave up on it. In a way, the UC fight is worse because now that we have a more legitimate reason why Superman has issues with Batman, it's all the more frustrating to see them throw it away. All that time Clark spent investigating people, empathizing with the woman who lost her husband, trying to figure it all out, is literally thrown out the window because his mom is in danger, and that apparently means all the principles Superman holds dear fly out the window and he's willing to relinquish a psycopath of all responsibility for his actions. Similarly, Batman sees Superman as this danger to society, someone who can wipe out the human race if they fell under evil influences of some kind, someone whose entire interaction with him was spent with him trying to coerce him into doing things he didn't want to do, all that is null and void because he has an existential crisis about the name martha.
I dunno, this is all pure memory stuff. From what I remember that balcony scene was about him bringing hope to people. I couldn't tell you if Lex came up.
blacklotus
Member
Don't
think so. It would be a first. But i'm not a total expert on comic books.
But it's something that's being thrown around in some circles. And if you combine it with how "young" Joker looks, and not talking about Robin's death, just the look on the costume with a message that can really be about switching sides... But it's all pretty thin right now. And since it would be a megaton, we will prolly have to wait for the movie.
But it's something that's being thrown around in some circles. And if you combine it with how "young" Joker looks, and not talking about Robin's death, just the look on the costume with a message that can really be about switching sides... But it's all pretty thin right now. And since it would be a megaton, we will prolly have to wait for the movie.
ffejeromdiks
Banned
So it's poor filmmaking if you don't get every single thing explained in excruciating exposition? Seriously what exactly would a scene of Lex explaining how that knows Superman can't see through lead add to the film? If you think every single detail needs to be explained at length then you don't really know what makes good filmmaking.
It's like saying we needed a scene of Clark driving/flying to Lex's party, how does he get there!?
L
Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Says who? Speak for yourself.
blacklotus
Member
to be fair, most of the "nitpicking" is not about superpowers or "fantastic stuff" (which is easier to dismiss/ignore); most of it is actually about "normal/human" common sense of the characters in decision-taking moments.
MisterHero
Super Member
Frank Miller's
Dark Knight Strikes Again. He doesn't become the Joker himself, but some sort of unkillable thing.
Yeah.
Considering BvS takes from DKReturns but makes that type of Batman seem incredibly deplorable, I submit that Snyder actually did right. It's refreshing to see Batman, and not Batgod.
Good, don't.
it doesn't have to be in excruciating exposition, you just need to throw the information there, specially if it's a pivotal part of the plot.
doing it literally like that (the bolded part) would be dumb, but you could have a previous scene when Superman can't see through lead and Lex witness it. (just casually throwing the information there).
and it just adds information to make a posterior scene make sense. that's how movies work.
I love that entire fight scene.
Zack got that right, but the blood spatter from the guy getting hit from the crate put me off a little. I acknowledge that your head getting busted by a crate would probably/maybe make your head bust open, or was it from hitting the wall because the front of him didn't look damaged.
Read my post, I already said there has to be a balance. I'm not in any way advocating the ridiculous scenario you've concocted.
That's a shitty story that should be ignored.
blacklotus
Member
Is it bad?
I bought:
TDKR
Year 1
Knightfall trilogy
Gothic
Dark Victory
Long Hallowen
Hush
All star Batman
The Killing Joke
Forgetting something, probably.
Also some Batman/Superman books and some Justice League books aswell, including Tower of Babel.
Recomend me some!
A lot of good points made. One thing though, Superman basically tells Batman he's wrong as a desperate plea. I don't think he believes it, just that he needs to say it to have any hope of getting help.
But yeah, it's hard to buy into the conflict when it depends on two characters being meatheads. Then, on top of that, they don't even let Superman organically get into the fight.
And yeah, I don't see Batman's redemptive arc either.
There's a pretty good prequel to TDKR that was recently released. The Dark Knight Returns: The Last Crusade. It helps to bridge the gap between the regular depicition of Batman that we see, and the on in The Dark Knight Returns.
The Cretan
Member
I get there is a reason on that, but it was unpleasant to me. It seems we get not killer Batman in Justice League, so that's okay. I'm talking about the "men are still good" part and the synopsis of Justic League.
On comic book influences, the movie has been influenced by The Dark Knight Returns (Superman breaths the cryptonite, the suits of Batman, giant bat, etc.), Death of Superman, Batman: Earth One (Thomas Wayne's look), Crisis on Infinite Earths (Flash's message to Batman), Superman: Birthright (Lex's look and Lex's trying to frame Superman) and Loeb's Batman and Superman (the parents of Batman and Superman taught them different lessons).
Check Scott Snyder's run on Batman and Superman: For All Seasons, too.
Maybe he should get a tattoo to make it clear?
you have a pretty good selection...
you should consider getting:
-Arkham Asylum
-A Death in the Family
-Death of the Family
-The Court of the Owls/Night of the Owls
-Earth One: Volumes 1 and 2
-The Black Mirror
-Endgame
blacklotus
Member
Oops. How could i forgot to list Arkham Asylum and A Death in the Family.
Thanks everyone, for the sugestions.
Also, get Zero Year. This may be a somewhat controversial opinion, but I think it's an origin story that builds on and surpasses year one.
Thanks. It being a desperate plea is definitley possible, but then he follows it up with shoving Batman 20 feet. It's a very mixed message.
Ephemeris
Member
I love that entire fight scene.
It gives me strength