Polioliolio
Member
This generation of gaming will be defined by fucking Loot Boxes.
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Battlefront II to feature in-game currency, loot boxes, crafting (affects gameplay)
- Thread starter GrizzNKev
- Start date
TheSpoiler
Member
See, I have no real issue with lootboxes. If that shit is in-game currency based and it doesn't mess with the balance, it's a soft price to pay for not splitting up the community and not having to buy overpriced DLC. As a consumer, that's not a bad deal, and for developers, they can't just make shit for free, which I respect.
When you start fucking with the balance, that's when things get dumb and dicey.
Not really grasping the outrage here, at least not with what we know.
Battlefront 1/2 are not even close to reasonably hardcore balanced/competitive shooters, nor do I think they're even trying to go that route. With the large variety of guns, classes, powerups and heroes I don't know how feasible that would even be. And if you watch the video most of the bonuses for the higher tiers are not really significant. A Legendary card reduces your damage by 5%, like come fucking on that isn't going to really mean much in a battle or against a hero except on paper the overwhelming majority of the time, much less ignoring skill differences. Battlefront 1 trait cards where if you're decent enough to hit level 3 in-match you get a 50% damage reduction; it's not a one to one comparison because of the differences between the two games but you get the idea.
Additionally most people are probably going to gravitate or focus mostly one one class; this means you can just dump your credits into upgrading the cards you want that you don't get as drops. Unless the economy is super fucked up where it's like hundreds of hours to get enough credits to grind to the highest level for one or two cards this is mostly a non-issue except on paper as far as we know now. It's still technically P2W no matter how small or incremental it is so it's not super awesome or something that should be applauded, but I think some people are blowing it way out of proportion and/or being mad to be mad.
Also a fun fact: you could totally pay money to get the upgraded star cards immediately in Battlefront 1.
Battlefront 1/2 are not even close to reasonably hardcore balanced/competitive shooters, nor do I think they're even trying to go that route. With the large variety of guns, classes, powerups and heroes I don't know how feasible that would even be. And if you watch the video most of the bonuses for the higher tiers are not really significant. A Legendary card reduces your damage by 5%, like come fucking on that isn't going to really mean much in a battle or against a hero except on paper the overwhelming majority of the time, much less ignoring skill differences. Battlefront 1 trait cards where if you're decent enough to hit level 3 in-match you get a 50% damage reduction; it's not a one to one comparison because of the differences between the two games but you get the idea.
Additionally most people are probably going to gravitate or focus mostly one one class; this means you can just dump your credits into upgrading the cards you want that you don't get as drops. Unless the economy is super fucked up where it's like hundreds of hours to get enough credits to grind to the highest level for one or two cards this is mostly a non-issue except on paper as far as we know now. It's still technically P2W no matter how small or incremental it is so it's not super awesome or something that should be applauded, but I think some people are blowing it way out of proportion and/or being mad to be mad.
Also a fun fact: you could totally pay money to get the upgraded star cards immediately in Battlefront 1.
NullPointer
Member
If its no big deal why cross the line to include stat altering items at all? Wouldn't it be just as easy to keep that stuff out?
They know their target demographic finds it more rewarding to unlock crates and spend money on advantages, so that's what they're going to offer up.
Maybe they should give away the game for free
Maybe they should give me a complete game for my $60.
Ivellios
Member
Blizzard loot boxes are cosmetic only, in this game it will affect gameplay as well.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
lol. Here, buy are game at full price so then we can milk you for even more money fuck you we're EA!
Maintenance
Member
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Just like overwatch which was $60 for mp only and lacked content at get go.
Norwegian_Imposter
Member
I have zero issue with the way overwatch does it. I will never buy loot boxes cosmetic or otherwise because it's a scummy way to do things and in my opinion it's straight gambling. In Norway, gambling is regulated to fuck so I hope the more it's brought to the forefront the more governments shit on the companies.
My guess is that if they did only purely cosmetics they probably wouldn't be able to keep up in terms of volume that they would need for outfits, color schemes etc, especially since Disney might care about just throwing out dozens of colored outfits and whatnot (I have no idea how strict they are about that stuff). So with that option probably off the table for some variety of those reasons if they want to keep putting out stuff but not do a Season Pass offering cards with very slight gameplay bonuses is likely them trying to straddle the line between not affecting gameplay too much but offering something to try to rope people in to spend money.
In a game where you will typically die in a handful of blaster shots much less a hero cutting you in half people getting outraged about shit like 5% damage reduction and 10% cooldown is kind of silly to me. I get why people aren't happy about it on paper sure, but come on.
Or splatoon for that matter.Map pool was tiny at launch by all counts ¯_(ツ_/¯
It has gotten better now.
It has more content than most online shooters out there, hence why I have played it more than any other online game this generation. "Paultry" lol. Meanwhile other shooters have cosmetics that literally cannot ever be unlocked through regular gameplay, or have gameplay elements behind grind. Yet those don't seem to get the same backlash, for some reason.
Everything has been free and nothing from lootboxes effects gameplay. Huge difference here.
Yeah, I don't like lootboxes in Overwatch either.
Splatoon launched light on content too, but at least they added actual free maps and gear, and the paid content didn't split the userbase or require you to pay and pray with shitty blind boxes.
Overwatch had a pathetic launch barebone and $60 yet got 9+ reviews because the name of the dev was called blizzard.
BLAUcopter
Gold Member
Only way it's ever going to change is if people stop buying their games. Problem is, people are morons.
veloxStrix
Banned
I actually enjoy myself a pathetic launch barebone. It's even better with $60. I'm real tired of the "Blizzard games only get good reviews because Blizzard" too. We're all adults here. We can act like it every once in a while.
See, your mistake is assuming everyone is cool with lootboxes if devs don't fuck with game balance in loot boxes.
With the exception of the dishonest, who have a personal gripe with a specific company/game, or the senseless, who inherently are allergic to companies making more money no matter the context or methods, there are namely 2 groups of people opposed to this practice with "genuine" reasoning.
1) People who highly value cosmetic bling and dislike the idea of being blocked from accessing all of it, because they must simply own all of it or feel entitled to something in particular. They fail to realize that there'd be less customization in the game in the absence of a money-making incentive.
2) Moral high-ground consumers who purport to care about the wallets of people with no self-control or children whose parents fail to moderate them.
Neither of which I particularly empathize with when everyone else benefits far more than a select few supposedly get devastated as if free will is a rare commodity. The only valid criticism of OW's model is that you can't directly purchase what you want with real cash which is slightly anti-consumer. Taken overall, it's far better than most of the multiplayer market at the moment for consumers in general. Only games I can think of off the top of my head that are objectively superior in every regard are Valve's MP juggernauts (dota2, csgo) and Path of Exile. Guild Wars 2 was also good until they locked content behind an expansion pack more recently.
None of these people ever consider the alternative garbage models that exist or propose a better solution that includes an incentive for a developer to give a high-level of post-launch support. P2W games or expansion packs/season passes that split the player base or games that are otherwise okay but leave actual game content/power behind grind walls where you pay cash to gain convenience. Some argue that companies should be happy with the price of the original purchase and that they should give all this content away, anyways. As if the scope of the post-launch support these hypothetical games get would be as extensive as what mutli-player user bases have come to expect these days. Sorry, but there is a lot more value for people in games that actually last beyond the life of the release period. Money going into your favourite games isn't a bad thing at all. That's direct incentive for the devs to give continuous support for the life of the transactions.
I know most people will hate me for this, but I have no problem with this system. I like the meta of leveling myself up, getting rewarded with loot, changing my gameplay because now I got a cool new item, etc.
I mean it's also possible they will have a competitive mode that doesn't have any of the gameplay affecting items, but I also don't see a Star Wars game as something that's trying to target the esports crowd.
I mean it's also possible they will have a competitive mode that doesn't have any of the gameplay affecting items, but I also don't see a Star Wars game as something that's trying to target the esports crowd.
Kwansu Dudes
Member
Not a fan of RNG loot boxes due to the sheer amount of garbage they give you, but gambling's fun I guess.
drotahorror
Member
Man that video is irritating. Such an annoying voice. Not sure what I think about this. It'll provide a lot of replayability. Sort of reminds me of Titanfall's burn cards or w/e they were called but these are permanent I believe.
joe_zazen
Member
The real money is sneaking a gambling mechanic in to snare certain types of people, and the younger ne'er the better. Also, The money flows whether it affects gameplay or not.
NullPointer
Member
Titanfall 2 as well. No RNG to their items, all of which are cosmetic only. See what you want, buy what you want.
You can't earn those items in-game at all, but I think making that extremely clear distinction between the game's free and paid content is the best way to do it.
Psychoward
Banned
Absolutely trash. You can have free maps and microtransactions without making it this fucking gross.
I was probably gonna avoid day 1 after the previous DICE battlefront but this means I won't even bother with it besides maaaybe renting it for the campaign if it doesn't turn out to a steaming pile of garbage.
I was probably gonna avoid day 1 after the previous DICE battlefront but this means I won't even bother with it besides maaaybe renting it for the campaign if it doesn't turn out to a steaming pile of garbage.
Psychoward
Banned
Overwatch still had more maps, was much better designed oh and yeah didn't lock gameplay items behind RNG paid loot boxes?
So it's objectively worse for most of the player-base that don't want to spend any extra money at all. Whales benefit, free players don't get shit. TF2 doesn't fall into my list.
Psychoward
Banned
1) they're not gameplay items
2) they're not random
this isn't fucking hard to understand
"free players" (is that what we're calling people who shell out 60 dollars for a game now) still get all of the post launch maps, weapons, titans etc. for free along with a ton of customization options in the base game
Stiler
Member
You honestly would think by now that there would be some crackdown on this sort of thing in gaming.
How is this kind of thing not considered gambling? Seriously, it's basically a virtual slot machine tied into the game systems which many younger people play.
It ticks the same kind of boxes that gambling does in order to get people to want to buy and open more and more crates and have that chance at hitting the jackpot with legendary rewards and such.
umm, did you not see where it shows star cards that legit give you extra power to your abilities and things? Those directly affect gameplay.
How is this kind of thing not considered gambling? Seriously, it's basically a virtual slot machine tied into the game systems which many younger people play.
It ticks the same kind of boxes that gambling does in order to get people to want to buy and open more and more crates and have that chance at hitting the jackpot with legendary rewards and such.
umm, did you not see where it shows star cards that legit give you extra power to your abilities and things? Those directly affect gameplay.
Exploratory
Banned
Yes obviously there will be some way they monetize the MP.
i HeaR MusiC
Member
I'll take this over dividing the community with a season pass.
Psychoward
Banned
yep there's no other way to monetize your game than have objectively better gameplay items behind rng lootboxes, nope none at all
that poor EA studio, how will they ever be able to launch their Star Wars IP game without the help of gameplay rng microtransactions
NullPointer
Member
Free players get all modes and maps and titans free. Same as you get with BF2.
Its just the cosmetics that are premium. No gambling, no RNG, no crafting, no card packs, no competitive advantages, and no storefront in your face.
Edit: Thanks Psychoward, I fell right into that "free player" nomenclature. For sure those players have already shelled out for the game, so they're just customers, not free players or freeloaders.
mullet2000
Member
After For Honor I refuse to buy another game with this type of system.
It's not hard to understand that it doesn't fall into my list of an objectively superior (in every way) monetary model, the context of the post you're responding to.
OW is better for free players because nothing is locked from them.
TF2 is worse for free players because they will never have access to that cosmetic DLC.
PedroLumpy
Member
Yeah I would never trust what a developer thinks 'Pay 2 Win' is.
"Well you can grind it out in game, so its fine!"
Bunch of bullshit, goalposts just keep moving. We all get shittier games because a bunch of whales just throw money at this.
"Well you can grind it out in game, so its fine!"
Bunch of bullshit, goalposts just keep moving. We all get shittier games because a bunch of whales just throw money at this.
If it was in a game like Overwatch were balance is extremely important i'd be pissed but in a 40 players game it really isn't that big of a deal, like come on...