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[Dalek]

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA'S RONALD D. MOORE ADMITS: CYLONS DID NOT HAVE A PLAN

If you watched Battlestar Galactica, Ronald D. Moore's groundbreaking reboot of the 1970s science fiction series, you are intimately familiar with those words. From the very first episode that sprung from the Syfy (formerly SCI FI Channel) miniseries, the credits opened with the basic premise of the show. Decades after the giant robots rebelled against their makers in a devastating war, the Cylons returned from deep space disguised as humans, integrated themselves into society and destroyed it from within. With the last remaining vestiges of the human race on the run, the men and women on Battlestar Galactica had no idea there were Cylon spies within their midst. And they had a plan...

Or so we thought.

Last weekend at the ATX Television Festival, the gang got back together to look back on the series and its legacy on genre television. There, Edward James Olmos (Admiral Adama), Mary McDonnell (President Laura Roslin), Katee Sackhoff (Starbuck), James Callis (Gaius Baltar), Tricia Helfer (Number Six), Grace Park (Boomer/Number Eight), Michael Trucco (Sam Anders) were joined by executive producer Ronald D. Moore, who revealed that the Cylons never had a plan at all! Nope, according to The L.A. Times‘ account of the panel, those iconic words were dreamed up by co-executive producer David Eick, who thought they ”sounded cool." Moore added that he thought they would figure it out by the end of the series, but, as we know, they didn't.

Look: No matter where you stand on Battlestar Galactica and its controversial ending, it ultimately doesn't matter that the Cylons didn't have ”the perfect plan." As we learned in the series, the Cylons are imperfect beings — just like humans. What really matters is that the show was a brilliantly written, impeccably acted story that wove together political and social commentary together as all great science fiction should. Were there some slip-ups along the way? Sure. Do we wish we'd learned more about how angels potentially tie into all this robot stuff? ABSOLUTELY. Do we still inexplicably loathe Gaeta with every fiber of our being? YOU BETCHA. But that doesn't mean we're not going to keep loving Battlestar Galactica, flaws and all. It's just that good.

I don't think this is really surprising for most people-but I think what's telling is that there are people that expect every TV show to have it's story mapped out in advance when it first airs. That's just not how TV production and writing work. They're all making it up as they go along. The number of TV shows that get a pilot from a pitch/script are a really small - and then from those the number that actually get picked up for a series are even smaller-and then from there the number that even stay on the air for more than a season are even smaller. The chances of anyone having an entire 7 season storyline mapped out for a show is just unreasonable.

 

[maxcriden]

The Cylons did have a plan. There's no indication the characters were lying.

 

[Kai Dracon]

It was always clear that the show's major swerves were often due to the staff trying wild ideas without any over-arching plan in place.

Some might dislike that, but I have to admit: compared to something like Lost, I thought the way the show brought its plot threads back together at the end was pretty good. I think the creative staff respected the mythological feeling that they initially started the show with and then allowed to fade away for most of the middle of the series.

However, I do think "The Plan" movie was a bad idea, and came off as fan-fiction trying to force every tiny hint and inconsistency in the show to fit into a logical framework.

 

[platakul]

They don't need to have all 4 seasons mapped from the start, but they could have tried to come up with something to follow new caprica.

Granted writers strike and all that

 

[FrontalMonk]

I mean, not every series can have Babylon 5 level plotting, and that's okay.

 

[Occam]

The result wasn't worse than Lost's resolution.

 

[Osahi]

The chances of anyone having an entire 7 season storyline mapped out for a show is just unreasonable.

Pretty much. And usually when a show gets greenlit, nobody knows for how many seasons it will run. Even stuff like Breaking Bad barely had a roadmap (they filmed the flashforward scene in episode & of the final seasons before knowing what it would result too in the final episode even). Hell, on the show I worked on here in Belgium in at least 2 seasons we didn't even really know how the season would end when we had the first episodes written. There was a vague idea, but the road to it was unclear untill we started beating out the episodes (we worked in blocks of 3 or 4 episodes during 2 months, then moved to the next batch).

Offcourse, it's always good to have an idea of where things are going and not setting things up you don't know the pay-off for yet (I'm looking at you, Lost)

 

[ag-my001]

I always took "the plan" to be in three parts.

1) Destroy humanity, torture the final five.

2) Boomer and Caprica Six change the plan; try to live with the remnants of humanity on New Caprica.

3) Everything goes downhill. New plan: survive.

 

[The Jackdog]

The result wasn't worse than Lost's resolution.

lets not go crazy

 

[Shake Appeal]

That's just not how TV production and writing work. They're all making it up as they go along.

I dunno, David Simon and David Chase had very clear visions for where they wanted their shows to go and end. Obviously those change over time and mutate with your writing staff and what the network wants, but you can absolutely set out with a clear vision and ending in mind and nail it.

 

[Altazor]

I admit I did kinda bitterly laugh when "the Plan" was revealed to be

Spoiler

let's kill everybody

.

I enjoyed the ride, however. Can't really complain - though that might be because I kinda binge-watched it instead of watching it live, week-by-week.

 

[Iolo]

I figured the "they have a plan" line was from the viewpoint of humanity through much of the series, where the Cylons are considered infallible and invincible. Then the humans slowly realize they are neither.

 

[Mighty Chin]

This has been known for years that it was David Eick's idea. No biggie. Still my favourite Sci-fivshow of all time.

 

[Knuckle Sandwich]

Shocking.

I loved the show at the time but I find it hard to rewatch do to how it ends. :-(

 

[Chmpocalypse]

Sure, the show was brilliantly written... except for the series-ruining ending that was narratively incompetent.

It was clear then that Moore had just been making it up as he went along. Shame he couldn't stick the landing, show would have been a lasting classic if he had.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

I actually genuinely liked the ending so I don't mind at all. It was obvious that the writers had no idea where they were going but I loved the show regardless.

 

[Fata1moose]

Even with the veil pulled back I don't care, it's still one of my favorite shows of all time.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

And for this reason, it's off the watch list.

 

[CopperPuppy]

The cast and crew reunion was actually really cool, for anyone else who wants to look more into it. There are other write-ups/interviews floating around. You can tell how close the cast is and how proud of the series they are. Good on Moore to talk about this specifically as well.

I actually like the expectation flip. You go from perceiving the Cylons as an enigmatic monolith with a grand unstoppable scheme to slowly realizing that, just like the remaining ark of humanity, they are flawed, hopeful, afraid of impermanence, capable of holding both good and bad within them at once, not human but more human that not. Which, of course, is part and parcel to the ending. It's a fascinating evolution and ultimately more rewarding than some "a-ha!" twist reveal about a "plan" cooked up for marketing purposes.

Plan or no, BSG will always and forever be one of my favorite shows.

So say we all.

 

[AuthenticM]

I just wish they hadn't retconned the show taking place in the future. I could have also done without some of the Intelligent Design stuff that went into the ending.

But I still love the ending for how it concluded the storylines of the characters. It's absolutely beautiful.

 

[Pau]

I thought the plan all along was to kill all of humanity which involved sending in Cylon spies to sabotage stuff? I never got the impression that there was anything more to it.

 

[Anoregon]

I actually genuinely liked the ending so I don't mind at all. It was obvious that the writers had no idea where they were going but I loved the show regardless.

Yeah, the only part of the ending I still have any problem with is the whole Starbuck situation. Other than that I think it was fine and the religious overtures didn't detract from it much.

 

[ahoyhoy]

The plan should have just been to enslave/genocide humanity, but then the writers made a huge mess of their motivations.

Ending was total shit but can't top that first Season. 33 was God tier writing.

 

[mjc]

The result wasn't worse than Lost's resolution.

It was way, way worse than Lost. Trash ending to an otherwise fantastic series.

 

[Rivian]

I always took "the plan" to be in three parts.

1) Destroy humanity, torture the final five.

2) Boomer and Caprica Six change the plan; try to live with the remnants of humanity on New Caprica.

3) Everything goes downhill. New plan: survive.

I always thought this could retroactively serve as "the plan" -

Spoiler

the endless hunting of the fleet was meant to torture the Final Five, so Cavil could make them see that humans aren't perfect and Cylons shouldn't be like them. (And the plan completely failed, because the Final Five stayed loyal to humans even after they woke up, and they never thought humans were "perfect" in the first place).

 

[BFIB]

Spoiler

I always took it as the original cylons (toasters) did have a plan, and that plan was altered when the final five made their way home.

 

[Fuchsdh]

The final season and ending of BSG made me glad Moore hadn't had more influence with Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, because even there the same religious nonsense mucked up the ending.

I think there's a happy medium to be had to keeping on-target to wrap things up in a satisfying way, versus the other extremes of either going totally off-book, or straightjacketing yourself to an ending after it no longer makes sense (which seems to be How I Met Your Mother's great fault.)

Honestly insofar as having satisfying endings even when the show runners had no idea whether each season would be its last, probably Chuck did finales the best.

 

[Jag]

The plan should have just been to enslave/genocide humanity, but then the writers made a huge mess of their motivations.

Ending was total shit but can't top that first Season. 33 was God tier writing.

33 was fantastic. Tempted to go watch it again.

 

[Diancecht]

I thought they did have a plan along the series?

Destroy -> Co-Exist -> Survive?

 

[Stumpokapow]

I don't think this is really surprising for most people-but I think what's telling is that there are people that expect every TV show to have it's story mapped out in advance when it first airs.

Right but probably you should have your logline mapped out in advance.

 

[Spiritwalker]

Not very surprising indeed. I still love the show to death though.

 

[Mindwipe]

Right but probably you should have your logline mapped out in advance.

Then again DS9's plan was wisely abandoned, because it was super boring and what we got was much better.

(The original plan at the start was that Bajor would become a full Federation world at the end.)

 

[Foxxsoxx]

33 was fantastic. Tempted to go watch it again.

Thats the episode they're hunted for a ridiculously long time straight right?

 

[Tal Shiar Agent]

I absolutely adored the ending. The second half of season 3 all the way to the end was just one giant ride.


Season 3 ending with the Final Five, Kara, the Music, and zooming out to Earth only to find at midseason 4 that Earth was Cylon and destroyed, then to find out at the end of season 4 that Earth wasn't the Earth.

I just love it.

 

[Fantastical]

The result wasn't worse than Lost's resolution.

You're wrong. If nothing else, Lost's resolution had great character moments.

 

[Foxxsoxx]

You're wrong. If nothing else, Lost's resolution had great character moments.

I miss Lost... flaws and all..

 

[Bulk_Rate]

Yeah, the only part of the ending I still have any problem with is the whole Starbuck situation. Other than that I think it was fine and the religious overtures didn't detract from it much.

Put me on the "liked the ending too" team, although my interpretation of the nature of Starbuck and the other Angelic characters leans towards viewing them as transcendent, super-evolved beings along the lines of 2001's Aliens or whoever created the Hierodules in Book of the New Sun.

 

[Archaix]

The worst part about BSG's lack of planning had nothing to do with the end (Which I didn't like, but I can deal with a poor ending to a TV show, for evidence see my avatar that hasn't changed since the last season of Lost). It was that every character meant nothing because they were made to be Cylons based solely on shock value. The character development of the first half of the series was rendered completely meaningless for a few cheap twists, which made the rest of the series just fall apart.

But the end was also pretty terrible.

 

[4Tran]

I don't think that it should be a surprise that most shows aren't going to be fully planned out. At least not English-language ones. The production complications make it nearly impossible, so even shows based on books like Game of Thrones aren't fully planned out. The only show that comes to mind that actually was fully planned was Babylon 5, but even it faced production issues that changed the plan.

It's a different story in Asia and other parts of the world where TV shows are fully planned out before they are made. But those shows tend to be produced quite differently and follow a different tradition. For instance, it's normal to have the entire show wrapped up before a single episode airs. They're also typically shorter - usually less than 100 episodes.

As for Battlestar Galactica itself, I appreciate the ideas behind it, and the execution was okay. But the show wasn't for me and I gave up on it a bit after the New Caprica arc.

 

[Sheroking]

You're wrong. If nothing else, Lost's resolution had great character moments.

I've always seen both endings as strongly related, and Galactica as the lesser of the two.

They both miss the point of why people liked their shows. They're both grossly unsubtle about their pro-religion subtext. They're both strangely predictable.

You're right that LOST actually has good character interaction and some sense of emotional closure. Galactica's was a bag of ass.

 

[JeffZero]

This isn't quite as new as the article making the rounds seems to allege; I've heard Ron speak this way at cons before. Still, I love me a good BSG exposure piece, ha.

As for no shows having all the broad beats mapped out, I am currently rewatching Babylon 5 -- our last, best exception to the rule.

 

[bachikarn]

You're wrong. If nothing else, Lost's resolution had great character moments.

That's debatable. BSG also had debatabley great character moments in the ending as well.

 

[parrotbeak]

Of course the human writers could not figure out the Cylon plans when they are limited to conceptualizing complex ideas in stupid limiting spoken language.

 

[PowderedToast]

i have amazing memories of this show. had a really unique tone and energy that hasn't been replicated.

 

[Occam]

It was way, way worse than Lost. Trash ending to an otherwise fantastic series.

I disliked both endings, they both showed they just made up stuff as they went along.
Maybe you are right, from a rational standpoint Galactica is more aggravating.

The problem with Galactica is that it couldn't really be set in our reality at all (certainly not our past), because we know quite precisely when and how humans evolved and what our evolutionary tree looks like. There wasn't any sudden infusion of lots of new DNA 150,000 years ago. Homo sapiens already existed way before that.
On the other hand, we also didn't develop super technology at some point in our past and started to colonize the stars, but then went back to stone age level on earth without leaving any trace of said hi-tech past.
The ending reflects the premise of the original series from 1978:

"There are those who believe...that life here began out there, far across the Universe...with tribes of humans...who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians...or the Toltecs...or the Mayans...that they may have been the architects of the Great Pyramids...or the lost civilizations of Lemuria...or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man...who even now fight to survive--somewhere beyond the heavens!"

Which is of course, nonsense.

In a way, the writers of Galactica were screwed, there really was no good resolution.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

I loved BSG's ending. No issues from me.

 

[BlackLagoon]

This isn't quite as new as the article making the rounds seems to allege; I've heard Ron speak this way at cons before. Still, I love me a good BSG exposure piece, ha.

I believe he even admitted it while the show was still airing. They never planned further ahead then the current season, they didn't even come up with resolutions for the end of season cliffhangers until they started writing for the next one.

 

[mjc]

I disliked both endings, they both showed they just made up stuff as they went along.
Maybe you are right, from a rational standpoint Galactica is more aggravating.

The problem with Galactica is that it couldn't really be set in our reality at all (certainly not our past), because we know quite precisely when and how humans evolved and what our evolutionary tree looks like. There wasn't any sudden infusion of lots of new DNA 150,000 years ago. Homo sapiens already existed way before that.
On the other hand, we also didn't develop super technology at some point in our past and started to colonize the stars, but then went back to stone age level on earth without leaving any trace of said hi-tech past.
The ending reflects the premise of the original series from 1978:

"There are those who believe...that life here began out there, far across the Universe...with tribes of humans...who may have been the forefathers of the Egyptians...or the Toltecs...or the Mayans...that they may have been the architects of the Great Pyramids...or the lost civilizations of Lemuria...or Atlantis. Some believe that there may yet be brothers of man...who even now fight to survive--somewhere beyond the heavens!"

Which is of course, nonsense.

In a way, the writers of Galactica were screwed, there really was no good resolution.

I was fine with the past Earth thing, but I was pretty annoyed by the inclusion of the angels and the whole religious tilt. Felt way too out of left field.

 

[GuitarAtomik]

Honestly, the only question about the series I have about is something mentioned on

Spoiler

Kobol when they're in the Tomb of Athena. They mention the humans that lived there did so with their "gods" aka The Lords of Kobol until conflict broke out and the humans had to flee. Who were these gods? Why were they considered such? Was that just another Cylon/Human cycle that was distorted over time?

 

[Anoregon]

Honestly, the only question about the series I have about is something mentioned on

Spoiler

Kobol when they're in the Tomb of Athena. They mention the humans that lived there did so with their "gods" aka The Lords of Kobol until conflict broke out and the humans had to flee. Who were these gods? Why were they considered such? Was that just another Cylon/Human cycle that was distorted over time?

Probably? At least that was my take.