dave is ok
aztek is ok
Yeah, I hate it when there is an obvious unspoken agreement within members of an online community to only post negative things about a candidate or his/her supporters.
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Bernie Sanders' Campaign Is Concerned About supporters harressing others online.
- Thread starter Slayven
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DataStream
Member
Good on him for calling out bad behavior.
However, the MSFT thing is pretty stupid and I lost some respect because of that. I think his campaign and some supporters have a bit of a persecution complex from the days when he was actually getting no press attention but still polling so effectively. It's unfortunate, but understandable in that light.
I don't really see this "bro" phenomenon. I do see an annoying amount of click-baity zero-sum political posturing articles from my friends in Iowa working with the campaign that has turned me off a bit.
There is plenty of legitimate critique of Hilary on being hawkish, not aggressive enough on the minimum wage, maligning single-payer (she could handle this in a much more nuanced way; the end game of health care absolutely must be single-payer), and most importantly the legacy of the Clinton presidency on incarceration and the drug war (which she has in no way adequately addressed imo).
However, the MSFT thing is pretty stupid and I lost some respect because of that. I think his campaign and some supporters have a bit of a persecution complex from the days when he was actually getting no press attention but still polling so effectively. It's unfortunate, but understandable in that light.
I don't really see this "bro" phenomenon. I do see an annoying amount of click-baity zero-sum political posturing articles from my friends in Iowa working with the campaign that has turned me off a bit.
There is plenty of legitimate critique of Hilary on being hawkish, not aggressive enough on the minimum wage, maligning single-payer (she could handle this in a much more nuanced way; the end game of health care absolutely must be single-payer), and most importantly the legacy of the Clinton presidency on incarceration and the drug war (which she has in no way adequately addressed imo).
True that. You're electing Bernie Sanders or Hillary Clinton, maybe Martin O'Malley. Not their supporters TheFury, ThePain and TheHuelen.
Nothing said by the Bernie campaign condones the actions a few people, there's no direct causation here, and there are assholes everywhere. Some people in the general democratic pool are racist scumbags, some of them are anti vaxers, others propagate often dangerous anti science ideas like homeopathy in leu of real medical treatment. To a large extent, most of these people are in no way directly motivated by the democratic platform, but you'll find them in both camps regardless. However being against corporate rule, pissed off about lack of government transparency, and anti establishment means some people will take things to extreme conclusions. Erin Bronkovich is anti flouride ffs. Perhaps we should have a thread on GAF highlighting all these things, but it shouldn't be an endictment on the broader basic ideas in most of these cases.
The difference is Bernie attracts a lot of younger voters. Some of whom have no filter for the vitriol they spew online. If Bernie weren't in the race do you honestly believe YouTube videos of Hillary would be free of assholes saying shit like " People's vaginas are making the wrong choice." Or "I hate this woman. She shoul jump off a bridge." You can't honestly believe that.
You mean @Bernie'sBong3:16 isn't on the ballot? Well count me out then.
Seriously, though, it sucks that a group of Internet assholes latched onto the campaign. Sanders should have called that out sooner. I'm glad an attempt is being made now.
(Sanders supporter)
I'm not sure I can agree with that. A politician's base says a lot about who a politician is and who his/her message appeals to. If a politician's base of supporters mostly consists of Tea Party activists who are predominantly talking about gun rights, for example, then you can make a lot of safe assumptions about what policies that politician will support if elected. After all, said politician wouldn't have attracted that base without making some effort to appeal to them.
In this case, Bernie Sanders' base seems to principly consist of younger voters who are enthusiastic about economic issues and the perception that corporations have too much influence over politics. However, that same base can be aggressively dismissive of other issues, such as the particular interests of minorities.
This right here. Watching CNN, and Rubio just said Ted Cruz wants to try "passing immigration reform" like its a fucking negative. How is just reforming immigration laws bad now? This is why republicans are the fucking worst, they talk about how we should change, but then do nothing but try to sit in the same fucking shit from forever ago. This is why I lose hope at the vocal minority of Bernie supporters who hold the nation hostage, my coworker being one of them. If Bernie doesn't win, he better be on the campaign trail with Hillary or we're fucking doomed.
Unfortunately, I don't think the non-minorities who support Clinton's campaign are really any different. White Clinton supporters just tend to be older and much less likely to use social media or engage politically over the Internet.
I am NOT saying that to excuse the behavior of some Sanders supporters -two wrongs don't make a right - , but I don't think that context can be ignored either. I'm glad the Sanders campaign is calling out some of the more obnoxious people. They should have made a greater effort at that from the beginning.
Realistically, though, the Democrats will need to attract such people if they are going to win back the House and Senate and do better at the state level.
If Socialism is a "very serious issue" which both Hillary Clinton and the right can attack Bernie on than obviously emails are also a "very serious issue"
Politics is serious business
EDIT Realized we were talking about different quotes
I'm pointing out how when Bernie's campaign is out right thieving it was agreed Hillary should let it pass, but straight bullshit against Hillary should be propped up. And Bernie is getting hammered on what he calls himself, because he hasn't found a way to make it digestible to the ignorant masses. If he can't get basic messaging that will get him killed in the general straight in the primary, it's best he get's knocked on it right now, until the kid gloves come off and the media actually treats him the way they treat Hillary. Don't forget, right now, Fox and Co are rooting for Bernie.
He doesn't need to address it in the same way that Hillary Clinton doesn't need to address the email frenzy on Fox News. In the same way Hillary's hearing effected the actual issue democratic voters had with her, people who are hearing about Bernie's radical proposals aren't finding issues with them.
Perhaps Fox and Co will need to find some other angle because Socialist Jew won't work, in the same way Socialist Muslim didn't fly the previous two elections.
King Tubby
Member
In response to a direct question as to whether he thought Clinton's handling of emails was okay.
Bernie Sanders said:
What a monster.
But Hillary does address the emails. In fact, she's been quite clear on what she thinks about it all, like you said, she went to an 11 hour hearing to clear things up. Bernie just rolls around in his own rhetoric and is now saying that the emails, which are being further and further discredited by the day, are a serious issue, which only people in his position can and have made as such by continuing that line of logic.
Then Bernie needs to get his people on the line, who are talking on CNN and such and tell them to stop saying its a serious issue in the court of the public opinion. This is exactly what Republicans do, keep the shit in the news and then point to it and say it must be an issue because people(themselves) keep talking about it.
UnemployedVillain
Member
She is addressing actual issues raised, not fabricated ones.
Bernie explains what democratic socialism is for him and you can agree or disagree with his position.
The right will use socialism regardless if its Clinton or Sanders
Clinton - pulled to the commie left by her radical socialist opponent, now wants to give people more free stuff
Sanders - A Commie, who wants to give free stuff
The people who would be effected by such messaging and rhetoric wouldn't vote Sanders or Clinton anyway, it's the same self enveloped belief they had that they will take the Socialist Obama down last two elections and blew a fortune trying to make it happen.
Except I never said she did?
I simply made the parallel that certain view points on Fox News and their demographic won't fly on the national scene.
I don't think it's impossible for the view to change, but it's very, very hard to do so with anything a single candidate/campaign can do. People latch onto buzzwords and stereotypes like crazy for campaign stuff like this, even if there's not really any substance, from Benghazi/emails for Hillary to "anti-establishment" Trump. When there's some actual substance to the claim (no matter how much or how little), those ideas can get entrenched pretty easily.
UnemployedVillain
Member
That's stupid: the composition of a base can and should raise questions but you should answer the question by actually looking into what that politician is saying and doing instead of just dismissing them.
The base can and has been aggressively dismissive of race issues, that didn't stop Erica Garner from endorsing him the other day because she thinks he's the best politician for the Black Lives Matter movement. Or you know, Shaun King.
Can =/= Has?
Just dropping the November 14th transcript here for better context. She was stating that she had a high number of campaign contributions from female voters, not that she would be the first female president. You could definitely argue that it was used as a deflection though.
Going by these statistics, those thoughts being propagated could've really had an effect on what happened. The socialist boogie man isn't just some talking point to discredit Bernie, it's the effect of the government hammering thoughts about that word and its supposed ideology for decades into the minds of the American people. Some affable grandpa just isn't gonna be able to yell away that connotation, which is what the voter divide shows. Which is why people are drifting to Hillary, as she is headed towards the same direction but realises that a lot of Americans are dumb and stupid and need to be shepherded towards change as innocuously as possible.
Suikoguy
I whinny my fervor lowly, for his length is not as great as those of the Hylian war stallions
I have to admit, I misread that at first too.
Anyhow like I've said the Socialist Boogie Man has come and his name is Bernie Sanders. He ain't that scary and his idea not that radical, should I believe these guys on Fox News or this Socialist Boogie Man Sanders..
He doesn't have the right to boogie like that being seventy years old.
King Tubby
Member
Be careful with that kind of talk, you might be mistaken for a Sanders supporter.
SolicitorPirate
Member
We seem perfectly happy to judge GOP candidates by their supporters.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
Anyhow like I've said the Socialist Boogie Man has come and his name is Bernie Sanders. He ain't that scary and his idea not that radical, should I believe these guys on Fox News or this Socialist Boogie Man Sanders..
He doesn't have the right to boogie like that being seventy years old.
He definitely knows how to boogie.
Aaronology
Member
In the same way, what? Bernie Sanders is Jewish and and he calls himself a Democratic Socialist. These aren't baseless attacks, unlike the accusations Obama had to endure during his campaigns. But please, keep trying to compare the two despite how wildly different their circumstances are. If Barack Hussein Obama was actually a Muslim or agnostic and championed "democratic socialist" ideals do you think he would have won his first primary, Las7?
Edit: I see. You're one of those "Socialism isn't a big deal in America anymore" type of folk. I can't take that shit seriously anymore.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
That Greenwald article is pretty good. There's no doubt that some Sanders supporters have been assholes toward women and minorities supporting Hillary, but half the time, the stuff being called out as sexist and racist is obviously not so. It's not inherently sexist to impugn Hillary for trying to use her womanhood as a selling point, because plenty of people (including young liberal women) are bothered by this, nor is it racist to point out that Bernie's policies, even if his words bolstering them are not always overtly intersectional, would help African Americans far more than Hillary's by helping to weaken powerful tools (large corporations and banks) of systemic racism, and that it's short-sighted to ignore this because his rhetoric favors an older flavor of liberalism. Bernie's not a perfect candidate, but he's also been held to an unreasonably higher standard than Hillary by the media.
I don't have to bother bringing their supporters into it. The candidates are horrible in and of themselves.
Ziltoidia 9
Member
I feel like the next president will be a one term president. Anyone else get that vibe?
In Trumps case the country wouldn't exist anymore so yes in that case.
It's baseless based on what Sanders proposes, he is not promising a communism utopia without money or private industry and thus any sort of baseless attacks based on trying to tie Socialism to Bernie Sanders will simply make Socialism more publicly accepted. Than you can divorce the idea from Sanders, since he is obviously not a socialist considering his ideas are not really radically out there compared to the more "radical" part of the democratic party.
King Tubby
Member
The supporters are just icing on the shit cake that most GOP candidates are.
I would say it's dumb to judge based on a fringe element as opposed to the larger populace of a base. It's a safe bet there are racists, and anti vaxers, and homeopaths supporting both Hilary and Bernie too, but I won't say Hilary is "egging them on." Somehow it's become alright to judge or slander the Bernie campaign with such a tactic though. Probably because it's more open on regular internet and social media channels. However in Trump's case I think we can say a large portion if not most of his supporters are racist, xenophobic, war mongerer.
Aaronology
Member
Let me ask again, Las7:
If Barack Obama had labeled himself a Democratic Socialist and was actually a Muslim do you believe he would have won his first term?
Yeah okay... this literally makes no sense. They have something by rallying behind the fervent voices that are harming the campaign. To put it in you're own words. Which is it?
Speak for yourself. People from all campaigns are in the game of handwaving. A portion HRC's constituents haven't gotten themselves above it since 2008.
It's not that they owe her their allegiance, it's that the back her when it's beneficial to them. Hillary offers greater prospects for them to get through legislation that Sanders would likely block as he works towards other bipartisan solutions while working towards a liberal congress.
Sander's has been calling for more debates to be scheduled since before they even kicked off. Way before we saw the results and had hindsight. But DWS along with the DNC made sure to keep the exposure of less known candidates to a minimum. I don't really think HRC won. But that opinion is entirely beyond this point. Sanders has benefited by the exposure, and would have benefited a lot more with earlier exposure. Now it's damage done, and you justify the lack of debates as if it was to help Sanders all along. Absolute nonsense.
Being called a Muslim and being called a Jew are two very different things in America.
What???
A presidential candidate who has gotten insanely popular on the internet with millions of followers has also brought out some of the shittier hateful side of the internet as well?
Well I guess two wrongs make a right huh? Lets make a hateful post about all Bernie supporters.
/s
A presidential candidate who has gotten insanely popular on the internet with millions of followers has also brought out some of the shittier hateful side of the internet as well?
Well I guess two wrongs make a right huh? Lets make a hateful post about all Bernie supporters.
/s
Aaronology
Member
As is being called a Socialist by your opponents and calling yourself one. If you're saying their situations are different, Arkeband, you'll find I'm not in disagreement; That's exactly what I'm drawing attention to. There is an incredibly annoying trend here on GAF and elsewhere that has Bernie supporters using the attacks Barack received to nonchalantly dismiss the very real and very serious issues a Sanders campaign would endure in the General. "They called him a Muslim, and he still won! They call every Dem a socialist, so what!?" None of you want to admit that if the attacks against Obama had been true (as they will be against Bernie Sanders) his run for President would have been significantly hindered.
And that's exactly why none of you have ever answered that question.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Am I alone in seeing parallels between the more fervent Sanders supporters and gamergate?
Just look at this thread. Women and minorities have been complaining for months about the bullying behaviour the these supporters display, and instead of acknowledging the issue and trying to address it, a large portion of posters here have basically been giving us #NotAllSandersSupporters
Just look at this thread. Women and minorities have been complaining for months about the bullying behaviour the these supporters display, and instead of acknowledging the issue and trying to address it, a large portion of posters here have basically been giving us #NotAllSandersSupporters
Obama made a lot possible for Sanders, not only due to the attacks he incurred.
He was also running on message of reigning in Wall Street after the financial meltdown, immigration reform, stopping senseless bloodshed abroad, reforming a broken Health Care system, providing more oversight on the NSA.
That's how I view things, Sanders is simply a continuation of a lot of things that fired up people in 08 that still need to be fought for.
Snowman Prophet of Doom
Member
I'd say the difference is that the more Sanders supporters lobbing sexist and racist shit really are a pretty small statistical part of his overall movement, are antithetical to what Sanders stands for, and should not affect any politically engaged person's perceptions of his presidential qualifications (which is what's really at stake, here), whereas GamerGate had no larger goal other than to prevent women and minorities from affecting changes they didn't want to see. The internet spawning harassing assholes is not really novel, and there's nothing you can really do about it at this stage of its existence. You can argue Bernie should have denounced it earlier, and that's fair, but as Greenwald points out in that article, from his campaign's perspective, the wacko fringe probably does seem like an infinitesimal nuisance and weren't really aware of the extent of the problem until it started to gain traction in the more prominent media in the last few weeks.
IrishNinja
Member
again, the out-of-pocket dismissiveness or "what about the other two" really points at the problem here
though i didn't agree with some of your earlier posts about the exact #'s of online segments of reddit/etc, yeah, with you here on this
yup, this really is the crux of the issue here - i know there's not a lotta room for degrees here, but the same way there's very valid criticisms against hilary that are not sexist/misogynistic, there's obviously a great deal of bernie supporters that aren't racist...this thread's about the group that is, and the harm it's doing.
looking at how bernie polls with minorities a little while back, i think it's safe to say it's worth discussing
exactly - how many on here were big on pointing out the nasty underbelly of ron paul supporters last go-around? and as has been said here, there's no doubt some overlap in this very same anti-establishment group from reddit/etc.
considering the term "gamergate playbook at use here" i'd say no, again there's definitely overlap in these things
though i didn't agree with some of your earlier posts about the exact #'s of online segments of reddit/etc, yeah, with you here on this
yup, this really is the crux of the issue here - i know there's not a lotta room for degrees here, but the same way there's very valid criticisms against hilary that are not sexist/misogynistic, there's obviously a great deal of bernie supporters that aren't racist...this thread's about the group that is, and the harm it's doing.
looking at how bernie polls with minorities a little while back, i think it's safe to say it's worth discussing
exactly - how many on here were big on pointing out the nasty underbelly of ron paul supporters last go-around? and as has been said here, there's no doubt some overlap in this very same anti-establishment group from reddit/etc.
considering the term "gamergate playbook at use here" i'd say no, again there's definitely overlap in these things
I never said that these voices were harming his campaign. Do I think they are? Yeah, but that's beside the point, and it doesn't speak to how Bernie's team are viewing these voices as being helpful or harmful to his own campaign. Either way, this is the portion of his base that's going HAM on social media, writing hundreds of Tumblr posts, and raiding the comments sections of any publication that dares to write a pro-Hillary article as somehow being a coordinated conspiracy against Bernie. Bernie's camp is aware of this, it's impossible to say they aren't. And so for Bernie's campaign to openly question MS' providing software to count votes because "they're a corporation!", and for him to lump Planned Parenthood and NARAL into the "establishment" category that he's fighting (and NOT the unions and establishment groups that have endorsed his campaign) all because they didn't endorse him...well, it's going to be pretty hard to convince me he's not feeding that narrative his fans have created.
SaviourMK2
Member
Meh, Sanders still has my vote, no one's bullied me (yet)
shadowsdarknes
Member
I don't expect Bernie Sanders fans to be apologetic. They are routinely labeled as out of touch, entitled fools.
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