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[Human Trashcan]

You gave that drive-by way more consideration than it deserved but that's a good post (@ Veelk's TOTP, I'm slow). There's fridging and there's fridging, y'know? Whether any particular instance of it is good or bad is up to everyone's judgment, but Gilligan has at the very least earned the benefit of the doubt with this show. I don't think Kim will die because there are way more interesting ways for her relationship with Jimmy to end that don't resort to such an overused trope. But if she does, we'll cross that bridge when we get there, and we'll have to judge that storyline on its own merits because just going "it's fridging and that's bad" is lazy criticism.

A trope can be part of a sexist pattern (women being killed to advance male characters' story) without every instance of that trope or the writer of that story being a raging sexist. And BCS clearly does not take its female character(s...?) for granted. Even Rebecca felt like a real, lived-in character in her very limited screen time.

 

[SpaceWolf]

I would consider the writers intentionally choosing to murder Kim solely as a means of furthering Jimmy's character development as at least a variation of fridging, a tedious and played out narrative pattern I've long gotten sick off, as opposed to the character simply dying as an organic conclusion to a particular storyline and Jimmy happening to be naturally impacted by it on a readily relatable human level.

If anything, I think it's far more likely the show will "fridge" Chuck at the end of this season (by which I mean, the writers will kill him off as the final push that'll transform Jimmy into Saul). At the end of the day, I just find Kim such a nuanced, refreshingly capable female character...I think the writers choosing to offer her up as a kind of human sacrifice to get Jimmy's character to where he needs to go would be an absolute waste, and far too trite a story a decision to be truly satisfying for me as a viewer.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

I would consider the writers intentionally choosing to murder Kim solely as a means of furthering Jimmy's character development as at least a variation of fridging, a tedious and played out narrative pattern I've long gotten sick off, as opposed to the character simply dying as an organic conclusion to a particular storyline and Jimmy happening to be naturally impacted by it on a readily relatable human level.

If anything, I think it's far more likely the show will "fridge" Chuck at the end of this season (by which I mean, the writers will kill him off as the final push that'll transform Jimmy into Saul). At the end of the day, I just find Kim such a nuanced, refreshingly capable female character...the writers choosing choosing to offer her up as a kind of sacrifice to get Jimmy's character to where he needs to go would be an absolute waste, and far too trite a story a decision to be truly satisfying for me as a viewer.

All of this.

 

[Veelk]

I would consider the writers intentionally choosing to murder Kim solely as a means of furthering Jimmy's character development as at least a variation of fridging, a tedious and played out narrative pattern I've long gotten sick off, as opposed to the character simply dying as an organic conclusion to a particular storyline and Jimmy happening to be naturally impacted by it on a readily relatable human level.

If anything, I think it's far more likely the show will "fridge" Chuck at the end of this season (by which I mean, the writers will kill him off as the final push that'll transform Jimmy into Saul). At the end of the day, I just find Kim such a nuanced, refreshingly capable female character...I think the writers choosing choosing to offer her up as a kind of sacrifice to get Jimmy's character to where he needs to go would be an absolute waste, and far too trite a story a decision to be truly satisfying for me as a viewer.

Agreed, but it just feels like worrying about the sky falling. We haven't been given a single death flag for Kim as of yet. As I said, I think that if Kim is going to die, the writers aren't going to neglect making it meaningful to her own character arc. Yeah, it's possible that the writers will go that direction and make it a fridging, but it's just not what I would expect from these guys.

But really, I just straight up doubt she's going to die at all. Kim is pretty removed from the criminal world Jimmy deals with. Hell, right now, Jimmy himself is pretty removed, since his sole interaction is trading mike for benign favors that don't approach anything lethal. We know Jimmy will get into it deeper later, but Jimmy has been staying clear from that area of criminal life ever since Tuco and then to a lesser degree Nacho in season one. That could and probably will change, but for now, Kim feels pretty safe.

 

[TheDarkKnight774]

I'm sure others have said this but Kim is easily one of the best and surprising aspect of the show. She's the Ahsoka of the breaking bad universe. You root for her, she is genuinely a good person, and is one of the characters you don't know her final outcome.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Agreed, but it just feels like worrying about the sky falling. We haven't been given a single death flag for Kim as of yet. As I said, I think that if Kim is going to die, the writers aren't going to neglect making it meaningful to her own character arc. Yeah, it's possible that the writers will go that direction and make it a fridging, but it's just not what I would expect from these guys.

And frankly, I just straight up doubt she's going to die at all. Kim is pretty removed from the criminal world Jimmy deals with. Hell, right now, Jimmy himself is pretty removed, since his sole interaction is trading mike for benign favors that don't approach anything lethal. We know Jimmy will get into it deeper later, but Jimmy has been staying clear from that area of criminal life ever since Tuco and then to a lesser degree Nacho in season one. That could and probably will change, but for now, Kim feels pretty safe.

I agree with you! The whole point of my initial post was in my getting the chance to voice my steadfast belief in this show being much smarter and more capable than that. I'm not "worrying" about the show going in a particular direction that would only demean and diminish Kim as a character at all. I trust in the writers implicitly, and wouldn't accuse them for a second of being "sexist" or having shown any evidence of having resorted to predictable, sexist tropes when crafting stories around a character like Kim, who I absoloutely love for her intelligence, drive and innate sense of empathy. I love what they've done with her and I greatly look forward to seeing what they keep doing with her as this show continues.

In general, I think Better Call Saul, much like Breaking Bad, isn't a hugely predictable show for me and that's where a lot of the fun comes from in watching this story unfold. It's a tragedy that isn't beholden to cliches, only in telling a series of very human stories that feel both natural and compelling in the way they're told. That's what makes it such great television. I have no idea what this show has in store for Kim, but I wholeheartedly believe her road won't lead her somewhere in keeping with a lot of fan's predictions that the character will just be summarily "killed off", like a whacked gangster in The Sopranos or something, an event that would suppose to serve as the trigger that'll almost flip a switch in Jimmy's head to truly switch him from "Jimmy" to "Saul". Because, forgetting the politics of whether or not that direction would have sexist implications, just to me as a viewer, that course of action just wouldn't be nearly as satisfying in comparison to the writers taking a great character like Kim and doing something altogether less blandly predictable with her, as a natural result of her innate sense of strength and tenacity. I don't know what that particular path could be...but I'd be willing to bet I'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than Kim winding up as a corpse that fuels the fire that truly kicks off Jimmy's start of darkness. Just in my opinion.

 

[Veelk]

I agree with you! The whole point of my initial post was in my getting the chance to voice my steadfast belief in this show being much smarter and more capable than that. I'm not "worrying" about the show going in a particular direction that would only demean and diminish Kim as a character at all. I trust in the writers implicitly, and wouldn't accuse them for a second of being "sexist" or having shown any evidence of having resorted to predictable, sexist tropes when crafting stories around a character like Kim, who I absoloutely love for her intelligent, drive and innate sense of empathy. I love what they've done with her and I greatly look forward to seeing what they keep doing with her as this show continues.

In general, I think Better Call Saul, much like Breaking Bad, isn't a hugely predictable show for me and that's where a lot of the fun comes from in watching this story unfold. It's a tragedy that isn't beholden to cliches, only in telling a series of very human stories that feel both natural and compelling in the way they're told. That's what makes it such great television. I have no idea what this show has in store for Kim, but I wholeheartedly believe her road won't lead her somewhere in keeping with a lot of fan's predictions that the character will just be summarily "killed off", like a whacked gangster in The Sopranos or something, an event that would suppose to serve as the trigger that'll almost flip a switch in Jimmy's head to truly switch him from "Jimmy" to "Saul". Because, forgetting the politics of whether or not that direction would have sexist implications, just to me as a viewer, that course of action just wouldn't be nearly as satisfying in comparison to the writers taking a great character like Kim and doing something altogether less blandly predictable with her, as a natural result of her innate sense of strength and tenacity. I don't know what that particular path could be...but I'd be willing to bet I'd be a hell of a lot more interesting than Kim winding up as a corpse that fuels the fire that truly kicks off Jimmy's start of darkness. Just in my opinion.

I totally agree, especially about the fact that when you get down to it, even if you don't care about the social implications of discriminant tropes....they're just bad writing. They're bad writing because they reduce the humanity of characters into stereotypes or roles, and do not treat them as people. And that is just not good writing.

So, yeah, pretty much agree with everything.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

No episode tonight...boo-urns!

 

[Aequitas]

Damn shame no new episode tonight 😩

 

[SpaceWolf]

Damn shame no new episode tonight 😩

We'll make our own Better Call Saul episode! With blackjack! And hookers!

 

[Lothar]

The worst thing Saul ever did on the show was suggest to kill Hank in Season 5. Even Walt never at any point suggested that they murder non-criminals.

Hank committed crimes too Funny how we label people. And yeah... that whole child poisoning thing.. lol.

Huh? Walt didn't want the child to die.

Brock?

Spoiler

Granted, he didn't want him outright murdered, but he was certainly willing to let him die if it meant he could solve his problem.

It's an important distinction that he didn't desire him dead and intended for him to live. As bad as Walt was, desiring an innocent (someone not in their business) to die is a line that he never crossed. Saul did cross it.

Of course I'm not saying that Saul is as bad as Walt. It's just fascinating that as horrible as Walt was, Saul went to some cold places that even Walt wouldn't go. It shows how much Jimmy is going to have to change.

I think Kim will have to die. I can't see how there could be any remnant or possibility of getting his old life back for him to turn that callous. Would Kim abandon him to a life of crime? Even if they had no more relationship, surely she would care that he was living a dangerous life. What would he have to do for her not to care?

 

[PHOENIXZERO]

Early on I expected that Kim's death (which he may inadvertently cause) would lead Jimmy to his own "Breaking Bad" moment as the final push into fully embracing Saul but as the show has gone on I've come to really, really not want that to happen to the point it'd probably ruin the series for me. I think over the course of the series that it's become more clear that she'll just see Jimmy for his true nature or however Chuck put it because Chuck, regardless of resentment, has always been right and maybe she's starting to finally notice it as this Saul thing is slowly removing the blinders. At worst I think Jimmy could be responsible for ruining her career/reputation which with how much Kim has stood up for him seems like an inevitability as she's basically taken on Chuck's role of "protecting" him. Whether that includes Kim being disbarred and effectively ending her law career I don't know and I don't think that part is as important as the one and last person who believes in Jimmy giving up as Kim leaves him, maybe going back to her hometown or somewhere close and how far is it from Omaha?

Thing is, will Jimmy get a relatively happy ending or remain in the purgatory that is Omaha, Nebraska working at that Cinnabon?

 

[riotous]

Like he's not going to die this season.

S4 OT | Chuck WAS a Cunt

Huh? Walt didn't want the child to die.

...It's just fascinating that as horrible as Walt was, Saul went to some cold places that even Walt wouldn't go..

No one said Walt wanted the child to die; I'm just saying ACTUALLY poisoning a child vs. suggesting they kill someone to me is just as if not more dark. If Hank wasn't family he may have been right there with Saul on the suggestion.

Your use of terms like "innocent" are strange to me too; Hank violently beat Jesse for instance. How does that make him "innocent" relative to say Badger, who Walt seemed fine with offing and only Jesse argued against that?

 

[MegaManTrigger]

I'm not seeing how Kim's death would influence Jimmy in any way. The worst thing he did in BrBa was suggest that someone die to Walter. In other cases, he's still been his Slippin' Jimmy self as far as using illegal tactics to get his clients off scot-free, and creating connections to the criminal world (both of which are already built into the foundations of Jimmy's character, both through who he is fundamentally and the characters he's already met).

If anything, the entire conflict and fallout with Chuck has pushed Jimmy to his breaking point (especially him going Slippin' Jimmy on the insurance broker to screw over Chuck). I think it's more likely that Jimmy doubles down on going after Chuck if he gets screwed even more.

 

[Veelk]

It's an important distinction that he didn't desire him dead and intended for him to live. As bad as Walt was, desiring an innocent (someone not in their business) to die is a line that he never crossed. Saul did cross it.

I feel that's splitting hairs. "Sure, he was willing to murder Brock, but he didn't want do it."

Ironically, that was a line that Saul wouldn't cross. When he found out that the Ricin was intended for a child, Saul said that had he known, he never would have put the order together.

Also, "innocent" is debetable. After all, Badger was a drug dealer, and it's not like Saul had any information on him other than that. So how is that truly different than Walt wanting to kill the 10 guys on Mike's list, even though he doesn't know anything about them other than that they were involved in the drug trade?

 

[duckroll]

I'm not seeing how Kim's death would influence Jimmy in any way.

Kim tethers Jimmy to the normal adult world. She is often the main or only reason he is even interested in giving normalcy a try. He hates it and it isn't him, but he likes her and he's willing to pretend he is a normal human being if that makes her happy, or if he thinks that makes her happy.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Kim tethers Jimmy to the normal adult world. She is often the main or only reason he is even interested in giving normalcy a try. He hates it and it isn't him, but he likes her and he's willing to pretend he is a normal human being if that makes her happy, or if he thinks that makes her happy.

That's been the whole basis of the early tragedy of Jimmy McGill for me, for me. Kim is trying to pull Jimmy towards the light whilst Chuck and his resentful disdain for his brother is inadvertently pulling Jimmy towards the darkness, perhaps even personified by the literal darkness Chuck has been living in for much of his life. They're like the angel and the devil sitting on his shoulder, both actively trying to steer Jimmy through their influence towards two completely different paths. What makes this story so heartbreaking is we know who's influence ultimately wins out in the end, and how Jimmy ultimately abandons his charming, innately empathetic self as "Jimmy McGill" forever before transforming himself into a man like Saul Goodman who leaves such qualities behind him forever, and as result who ultimately winds up completely alone in the future.

 

[/XX/]

No episode tonight...boo-urns!

Damn shame no new episode tonight 😩

Strangely enough, here in Spain the licensee Movistar+ still lists episode 8 for today, at its usual time slot:

Better Call Saul. Temporada 3. Episodio 8 - Movistar+
http://www.movistarplus.es/ficha/better-call-saul-t3/resbalon-vos?tipo=R&id=48262610

In fifteen minutes I'll know if they screwed it up, or they really have a sudden worldwide premiere! ;-P

 

[crisdecuba]

Strangely enough, here in Spain the licensee Movistar+ still lists episode 8 for today, at its usual time slot:

Better Call Saul. Temporada 3. Episodio 8 - Movistar+
http://www.movistarplus.es/ficha/better-call-saul-t3/resbalon-vos?tipo=R&id=48262610

In fifteen minutes I'll know if they screwed it up, or they really have a sudden worldwide premiere! ;-P

Please let this be true.

 

[/XX/]

Please let this be true.

Yep! Confirmed, they are indeed airing the new episode. Watching right now!

 

[Sectorseven]

Strangely enough, here in Spain the licensee Movistar+ still lists episode 8 for today, at its usual time slot:

Better Call Saul. Temporada 3. Episodio 8 - Movistar+
http://www.movistarplus.es/ficha/better-call-saul-t3/resbalon-vos?tipo=R&id=48262610

In fifteen minutes I'll know if they screwed it up, or they really have a sudden worldwide premiere! ;-P

That would mean they'll be ahead of the US broadcast for all the remaining episodes.

 

[____]

Yep! Confirmed, they are indeed airing the new episode. Watching right now!

WTF WTF WTF WTF

Record it on your phone and upload it!

Spoiler

Just kidding.

Spoiler

Or am I?

 

[Einchy]

SPAIN DON'T CARE

 

[SpaceWolf]

Yep! Confirmed, they are indeed airing the new episode. Watching right now!

 

[Cornballer]

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

 

[TVexperto]

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

Its not really leaked is it if its airing on an official tv channel?

 

[sarcastor]

We'll make our own Better Call Saul episode! With blackjack! And hookers!

on second thought, screw Better Call Saul. and the blackjack.

 

[Starfield]

do they air it in english??? I know its a stupid question but i dont want to watch it in spanish

 

[minor effort]

Its not really leaked is it if its airing on an official tv channel?

Even though it's not technically leaked, many viewers in this thread will be unable to watch it until next Monday. Perhaps keep an embargo on it until then.

I guess it'll be like this for the remainder of the season unless the Spanish channel shows a repeat next week to rebalance.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

I whole-heartedly approve of this policy.

 

[____]

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

Good policy.

Its not really leaked is it if its airing on an official tv channel?

Good question.

 

[HardRojo]

It'd be better to keep Episode 8's discussion spoiler tagged or simply out of the thread until it releases worldwide next week, out of courtesy for everyone here.

 

[dLMN8R]

Its not really leaked is it if its airing on an official tv channel?

I mean, sure, there are a few people here who legitimately live in Spain and they're watching it legally, but it seems pretty clear that the vast majority of people in this thread don't live in Spain, and hence would not be viewing the episode legitimately.

So...even if it's not technically the definition of a "leak", it's still the viewing of pirated content, which is just as big a no-no.

It'd be better to keep Episode 8's discussion spoiler tagged or simply out of the thread until it releases worldwide next week, out of courtesy for everyone here.

Well this also would imply that Spain is 1 episode ahead of everyone else perpetually going forward, which would just be annoying and untenable.

May as well just stick to the US release schedule for discussions in this thread...

 

[Cornballer]

Updated for clarity:

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked or pirated material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

We will continue to use the US release schedule in this thread for discussion.

 

[PantherLotus]

1. 'i don't see how kim's death would affect jimmy' -- you what? LOL

2. about had a heart attack with this thread bump and scrolling down worrying i'd get episode spoilers. nice work mods.

 

[Permanently A]

Spain lmao

 

[Jofamo]

Does that mean they'll show the finale a week early too?

 

[SpaceWolf]

Does that mean they'll show the finale a week early too?

...oh god, no.

 

[Fuu]

hijo de puta!

 

[Einchy]

hijo de puta!

Tio

 

[Ledbetter]

I just got home ready to watch the new episode in Netflix just to realize I have to wait another week, why are you doing this to me?

Well, at least I have a whole season of House of Cards waiting for me, so it is not that bad.

 

[Cornballer]

- HiddenRemote: Better Call Saul Soundtrack: Q&A with Thomas Golubic and Dave Porter

Hidden Remote: I’ve got one last question that fans have been curious about from the beginning. What’s the deal with the abrupt cut-off at the end of the Better Call Saul title theme?

Dave Porter: “I can tell you that it’s how it always was. By the time Thomas and I got to discussions about the title piece, which is a commissioned piece, even I think before we were even involved, the picture editors had been playing around with some very lo-fi ideas for the opening titles. Whether it was by design or not, it stuck. There was even a period where we didn’t know what that piece was going to be, the idea of it kind of ending abruptly was always in play and everybody always loved it.”

Thomas Golubic: “I think it was one of Vince’s ideas. And it was one of those things that basically we’re discovering Saul Goodman, and Saul is associated with the wonderfully corny ads he has, and there’s a wonderful slap dash sloppiness to him. He’s the kind of guy that will say, ‘got it on the first take, moving on’ and so I think that in a way, one of the most honest ways of presenting him is to cut off that final note. Like ah! Forget it! It’s fine! Moving on!”

“The UK-based band that wrote the song, Little Barry, called me up and said ‘we’re so excited about this, thanks for the opportunity! Maybe it was just in the UK, but they seem to have cut off the last note!’ And it comes up all the time that the last note is off, and one of the great joys of it is that it’s kind of a character moment. This is the character that would probably make a mistake and not fix it. It’s a sweet and charming way of saying you’re in this world with this character and you’re there on his terms.”

More via the link.

 

[SpaceWolf]

Really interesting. I used to find the cut-off really jarring, but now I love it.

 

[Leona Lewis]

hijo de puta!

¡Pete Campbell es un hijo de puta!

 

[HardRojo]

I always interpreted the abrupt cut-off as a way of acknowledging Jimmy hasn't gone full Saul yet.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Yep! Confirmed, they are indeed airing the new episode. Watching right now!

Yet it's not up on the site. Lame.

 

[SalvaPot]

Hi folks, just a reminder that discussing leaked material is prohibited here. This includes linking to sources, vague hints, posting spoilers outright, etc... If you're able to watch it early, more power to you, but talking about it here going to result in a ban. Thanks.

That kind of sucks for people in Spain who watch it legally, right?

Uuugh, its hard enough to wait a day to watch on netflix here in Mexico, now I have to block my spaniard uncle-in-law on facebook to avoid spoilers too.

 

[Cornballer]

- Recode podcast: Actor Michael McKean doesn’t care how you watch his show ‘Better Call Saul’
- Variety: Drama Actors on ‘Legion,’ ‘Better Call Saul’ Look Behind the Mask

For “Better Call Saul” star Bob Odenkirk, playing Jimmy McGill who “plays” Saul Goodman “is such a fantastic role, so rich and interesting.” And with the show’s third season now airing, “the differences between the two are getting smaller and smaller,” he notes. “But it’s an internal journey more than an external one, as he becomes Saul. Essentially, he’s shutting down emotionally as he makes the choice to become this mercenary front that he calls Saul Goodman. It’s a mask, but it’s also a real reaction to the disappointments of his life. He gets angry and consciously uses his position as Saul for his own gain.”

By the end of the season, “he’s made a giant step internally into morphing into Saul — and it’s kind of a sad thing to watch and feel that progression, as I really grew to like Jimmy,” adds the star. “While he causes some damage, he’s unaware of much of that damage, while Saul is totally conscious of how he uses and hurts people. He just doesn’t care.”

Balancing the two “isn’t too hard” for Odenkirk, who reports that Saul “is easier to play as he has fewer sides to him. We’ve only seen him at work, so far. Maybe if we see him at home, or in a relationship, we’d see other aspects.”

That kind of sucks for people in Spain who watch it legally, right?

Sure, but they get to watch it early and in return they're just not allowed to talk about it here for a week. I don't think it's a tremendous burden on a small subset of the thread population just to keep the things on track. If you or anyone else would like to discuss further, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[Dai101]

That kind of sucks for people in Spain who watch it legally, right?

Uuugh, its hard enough to wait a day to watch on netflix here in Mexico, now I have to block my spaniard uncle-in-law on facebook to avoid spoilers too.

I don't mind, really. Then again i'm pretty relaxed for the legallity of how i watch a tv show (also i usually go to sleep after 2am which is after the episode is uploaded on MX Netflix)

That said. You all are for a treat this monday. Not gonna say more.

 

[Einchy]

I totally get why they skipped the week but this break is killing me. At least it didn't happen on a huge cliffhanger like the time Game of Thrones did it.