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Bicycle age

T

Teggy

Member
Is there a good way to understand the difference in work required between these 2 gear combinations?

30 front 32 back
34 front 32 back
 
H

HTupolev

Member
Teggy said:
Is there a good way to understand the difference in work required between these 2 gear combinations?

30 front 32 back
34 front 32 back
Click to expand...
With any given rear sprocket, a 34-tooth ring is going to give a gear about 13% higher than a 30T ring (34/30 = 1.13333).

The difference in gearing that happens when you switch from a 34 to a 30 is pretty similar to shifting 1 gear lower when you're in the low gears of your 11-32 cassette (i.e. from the 25 to the 28, or the 28 to the 32).
 
T

Teggy

Member
HTupolev said:
With any given rear sprocket, a 34-tooth ring is going to give a gear about 13% higher than a 30T ring (34/30 = 1.13333).

Changing from a 34 to a 30 is pretty similar to shifting 1 gear lower when you're in the low gears of your 11-32 cassette (i.e. from the 25 to the 28, or the 28 to the 32).
Click to expand...

So it doesn't sound like it would get a huge advantage. Reason I am asking is I am still eyeing that Giant Revolt and am maybe considering getting the cheaper one and using at times during the winter. After the winter it would be a gravel bike and I was thinking of getting a set of 28+ mm slicks to switch out for randoneurring or touring.

The cheaper one has a triple with a low gear of 30-32 and the more expensive one has a double with a low gear of 34-34. Those seem pretty similar, right? (34-32 is my road bike low gear).

So if there isn't really a huge difference in the climbing, maybe it is better to get the better components and the simpler crankset. On the other hand, it's close to $500 difference, and if I don't spend as much I might not worry much taking it off road or maybe even on snow.
 
H

HTupolev

Member
A box showed up with a bunch of cheap tires inside.

yglsiS6.jpg
 
L

Laekon

Member
Teggy said:
So it doesn't sound like it would get a huge advantage. Reason I am asking is I am still eyeing that Giant Revolt and am maybe considering getting the cheaper one and using at times during the winter. After the winter it would be a gravel bike and I was thinking of getting a set of 28+ mm slicks to switch out for randoneurring or touring.

The cheaper one has a triple with a low gear of 30-32 and the more expensive one has a double with a low gear of 34-34. Those seem pretty similar, right? (34-32 is my road bike low gear).

So if there isn't really a huge difference in the climbing, maybe it is better to get the better components and the simpler crankset. On the other hand, it's close to $500 difference, and if I don't spend as much I might not worry much taking it off road or maybe even on snow.
Click to expand...

The 2x system will shift better up front then the 3x one. Plus the hydraulic disc brakes are a good upgrade though I haven't used the converter system Giant is using this year. Though you could always buy the cheaper one and look to upgrade later to a 105 or a Rival/Apex group.
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Teggy said:
So it doesn't sound like it would get a huge advantage. Reason I am asking is I am still eyeing that Giant Revolt and am maybe considering getting the cheaper one and using at times during the winter. After the winter it would be a gravel bike and I was thinking of getting a set of 28+ mm slicks to switch out for randoneurring or touring.
Click to expand...

You may want to up that base number to 34+ and tubeless. The whole point of randoneurring/touring set ups is the ability to go wide for more comfortable rides.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Have been looking around for a wider rear cassette / single front ring (or a tiny inner ring). Some potential options for me to try. As I'm going to be carrying upwards of 20kg to train with then obviously I need to significantly increase my gear range unless I want to be "spinning" at 40rpm.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
But the red one is available ready for when my friend is visiting. :(

Edit - Actually, it probably would just miss it.

Edit 2 - Bollocks, you have to go with the ugly silver version if you want the factory fork. That's put me off. I wish these fucking bike companies wouldn't do that. Let me buy the top version with whatever frame I want.
 
L

Laekon

Member
Psychotext said:
But the red one is available ready for when my friend is visiting. :(

Edit - Actually, it probably would just miss it.

Edit 2 - Bollocks, you have to go with the ugly silver version if you want the factory fork. That's put me off. I wish these fucking bike companies wouldn't do that. Let me buy the top version with whatever frame I want.
Click to expand...

The factory fork just gives you the coating, nothing more. On the US site the Race bike is also an 11 spd bike not a Eagle build.

I hope you have an xc bike for Leadville.

As someone that worked in the bike industry for a long time I'm pretty torn on brands like this. Sure a lot of bike shops have shitty employees but what are people going to do when their brakes need to be bleed or a seal goes in their fork and there is no shop around? No shop owner is rolling cash and people are buying way more bike then they need thinking they are getting a bargain online.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
It's the coating I want. It's not just that either, the dropper on the CF Pro is garbage, and the wheels are much better on the CF Pro Race too.

Edit - But yeah, what the fuck at the CF Pro not having Eagle. Jesus wept, I'm never going to be able to buy a bike. lol

Laekon said:
As someone that worked in the bike industry for a long time I'm pretty torn on brands like this. Sure a lot of bike shops have shitty employees but what are people going to do when their brakes need to be bleed or a seal goes in their fork and there is no shop around? No shop owner is rolling cash and people are buying way more bike then they need thinking they are getting a bargain online.
Click to expand...

I learned long ago not to trust bike shops with my bikes. I do everything myself (not exactly hard to learn via the internet), except for full fork / shock services, which most shops can't do themselves anyway (the parts get sent to pros).
 
T

TarpitCarnivore

Member
Laekon said:
The factory fork just gives you the coating, nothing more. On the US site the Race bike is also an 11 spd bike not a Eagle build.

I hope you have an xc bike for Leadville.

As someone that worked in the bike industry for a long time I'm pretty torn on brands like this. Sure a lot of bike shops have shitty employees but what are people going to do when their brakes need to be bleed or a seal goes in their fork and there is no shop around? No shop owner is rolling cash and people are buying way more bike then they need thinking they are getting a bargain online.
Click to expand...

Just because Canyon exists doesn't mean these people wont go to shops. Canyon is a very boutique brand and they don't have a huge cachet of other brands/products to move (Trek, Cannondale, Giant, Specialized, etc).
 
L

Laekon

Member
Psychotext said:
It's the coating I want. It's not just that either, the dropper on the CF Pro is garbage, and the wheels are much better on the CF Pro Race too.

Edit - But yeah, what the fuck at the CF Pro not having Eagle. Jesus wept, I'm never going to be able to buy a bike. lol



I learned long ago not to trust bike shops with my bikes. I do everything myself (not exactly hard to learn via the internet), except for full fork / shock services, which most shops can't do themselves anyway (the parts get sent to pros).
Click to expand...

The coating does nothing but have a look. I'll give you the carbon over alloy wheel upgrade but not the post. The number of Reverb warranties is crazy, plus the need for maintenance bleeds. The 9point8 design used by Fox/RF/Easton actually holds up but it remains to be seen how their version of it does. Haven't seen any issues yet.

Most people aren't good working on their bikes. A guy came in this week that had replaced the axle in his rear wheel with the wrong one while converting to a 1x system. There was about 3mm of side to side movement in his free hub on the axle and he was trying to figure out what cassette washer he needed.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Reverb dropper used to be shit, isn't any more. I've seen the Turbine fail first hand, it's trash.

Wouldn't be the end of the world, but it's instantly another £250 I have to spend.

...and are you absolutely sure about that on the coating aspect? Seems strange to have a patented coating on your highest end / most expensive models and it not actually be any better.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
The Kashima coating almost certainly has a measurable effect, but you'd have to ride on the ragged edge of control for it to have consequences.
 
L

Laekon

Member
I work part time for a good shop while going back to school. A good number of bikes have gone out with the Fox post speced OEM and we've done a few Fox and RF aftermarket. I've yet to see one need work. Last week I shipped 2 Reverbs from 2017 bikes back for service. I can't say it wasn't because the owner lifted the bike while it was down but that is still a stupid issue. I worked directly with SRAM for years when the Elixir brake was around and can't count how many times they said they had worked out the issues.

My bike has a Factory fork but I've been riding 2 other bikes with Performance Elite forks and can't tell the difference. Same trails and tires though 1 is a 29". I'm slow and don't ride as much as I should so it's just an opinion. I'm sure there is measurable difference in a lab but once you had dampening and seals I don't feel it. Rock Shox's seem to be the smoother when your cycle them with no internals.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
YT got back to me and unsurprisingly they wont do a custom version.

So it's performance elite or nothing. Hmm. =/

Also, I'd be replacing the race face with a Thompson dropper if I did actually go for that model. The new Fox is supposedly quite good too, but I don't have direct experience with it.
 
D

Donos

Member
Got my 6+ years old MTB and that new Trekking Bike of my gf stolen out of our cellar. Luckily we are covered by insurance and we got the whole money back (2k+ €).

Just shopped a new one (down from 1299 € to 1070 €):

172731_1513277.jpg

XT parts all around (yeah, SLX does the job too but the bike was on a 20 % Sale), RS Reba fork
Since i have a car now, i can finally travel to good places and get back into the trail game (Berlin is flat as a city can be...)

Mascot said:
We are all doing it wrong.

giphy.gif
Click to expand...

WTF. At first i thought the gif was going backwards but my brain said that it would have been even more strange. Big balls to this guy. This would have easily entered the "Fail" compilation if he didn't boss it through and tripped.

They see me rollin' They hatin'
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Donos said:
Got my 6+ years old MTB and that new Trekking Bike of my gf stolen out of our cellar. Luckily we are covered by insurance and we got the whole money back (2k+ €).
Click to expand...

I'd flat out want to murder someone. My main bike is now 10 years old and no amount of money could replace it for me.
 
M

Mascot

Member
Psychotext said:
It's the coating I want.
Click to expand...

Are the probems with Kashima flaking off now resolved? I know it wasn't uncommon a couple of years ago. It gives a nice slick surface but the durability was questioned.

I dunno, maybe that's fixed now. I'm happy enough with my non-Kash Pikes.
 
P

Psychotext

Member
Supposedly. They have a new formulation.

So with spending over £10k on travel and events this year I've put thoughts of the boutique bike aside for the moment and I'm basically down to these two...

Canyon Spectral AL 7.0 EX - £3000
78c06f2daa9465c9803a5gksnx.jpg


YT Jeffsy CF Pro - £3470
jeffsy29_cf_pro_blackcissp.jpg


The meaningful differences are... (Canyon left, YT right)

Aluminium vs Carbon
12.7kg vs 12.4kg
650b vs 29er
SRAM Guide RS vs SRAM Guide RSC
X1 Eagle vs X01 Eagle Cranks (Aluminium vs Carbon)
RockShox Pike RCT3 vs FOX 34 Performance Elite
RockShox Monarch RT3 vs Fox Float DPS Performance Elite
12x142 axle vs 12x148 axle
Renthal Fat Bar vs RACE FACE SixC 35
Mavic XA Elite vs e*thirteen TRS+ 29"
RockShox Reverb Stealth vs Race Face Turbine

I guess really it comes down to the suspension there, because on paper at least, the Jeffsy is the better bike on the whole. Not sure about the wheelset on it, because the non boost version of those wheels had hub reliability issues. Maybe something they've sorted now. I'd be losing the tyres almost immediately on the Jeffsy, but I guess that's only £60 or so.

Edit - I suspect I'm not fitting a water bottle in that Jeffsy either. Hopefully there would be enough room for my tool bottle.
 
M

Mascot

Member
Re the bikes, they are both good buys but you'd need to be damn sure you want a 29er with the YT. Carbon looks nicer but the weight difference is so small it really hasn't been a reason since Trek's Y-bikes, and carbon does need more care. I think I'd be inclined to save a chunk of change and go for the Canyon, but would probably flip-flop for ages. Then go for the YT.

781.png
 
P

Psychotext

Member
I really don't know between the 650b and the 29er aspect. I like that the 29er will handle bigger obstacles / drops with less drama, but then I also like the fact that 650b bikes tend to be more nimble. That said, I watched a bunch of pros riding different bikes at Bikepark Wales and all of them seemed to think the 29ers were the better options, and pretty much all of them ended up quicker on them vs the 650b. Originally I was thinking at least I could share tyres between my bikes (two 29ers), but in reality I'm never going to use the big beast tyres from the trail bike on my cross country whippet bike.

* massive confused face *

On looks alone I'd go for the YT.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
Looks like I'm going for the Colnago frame. Judging from pics it's really almost in NOS condition, only a couple of scratches on the fork. Plus it has semi-horizontal dropouts with chain tugs, totally sweet.
 
A

Addnan

Member
Getting the Gatorskin 32mm on was not as hard as I was expecting. Required two tyre levers to work over time and getting the last bit in took a bit of time, but not too bad in the end. Didn't break the 50p tyre levers so that's something.
 
B

broony

Member
I took my cyclocross bike in to my local shop this week to get a few jobs done.

He decided I needed a new chain and fitted one.

I had a quick ride up and down my street tonight to check everything is ok and while cycling gears ended up in big gear and big cog where everything jammed.

Now I know you would never ride in these gears, but I don't think the chain was this short previously.

I took the bike back and the tech made a big deal out of this being how shimano recommend you size the chain when you have 3 cogs at the front. However reading a bit since, this sounds like bullshit and if I do accidentally end up in that combination while riding, I could end up ripping the bike to bits.

What do you guys think?
 
H

HTupolev

Member
broony said:
I took my cyclocross bike in to my local shop this week to get a few jobs done.

He decided I needed a new chain and fitted one.

I had a quick ride up and down my street tonight to check everything is ok and while cycling gears ended up in big gear and big cog where everything jammed.

Now I know you would never ride in these gears, but I don't think the chain was this short previously.

I took the bike back and the tech made a big deal out of this being how shimano recommend you size the chain when you have 3 cogs at the front. However reading a bit since, this sounds like bullshit and if I do accidentally end up in that combination while riding, I could end up ripping the bike to bits.

What do you guys think?
Click to expand...
For the reason you've described, the common method of choosing chain length is the same regardless of how many chainrings you have. Wrap the chain around the largest rear cog and largest chainring without threading it onto the rear derailleur, find the shortest length where it could be connected up, and then add an inch (two rivets) to leave a little slack for when the rear derailleur is added into the picture.

This won't always make the big-big combo smooth, but it will typically make things long enough that it won't jam or anything.

I've met someone who preferred to have a shorter chain on his own bikes... but unless you actually asked for that, if a mechanic sizes the chain such that it can cause the drivetrain to seize in big-big, IMO they made a mistake.
 
L

Laekon

Member
jakonovski said:
Worth every penny! Now to decide how many gears to put on it.
Click to expand...
Just curious but does it say where it was made? Giant was/is making both aluminum and carbon Colnago's at lower price points but I don't know if they ever made steel ones.

I like the colors. It was one of their best combos.
 
J

jakonovski

Member
Laekon said:
Just curious but does it say where it was made? Giant was/is making both aluminum and carbon Colnago's at lower price points but I don't know if they ever made steel ones.

I like the colors. It was one of their best combos.
Click to expand...

Headtube says made in Italy. The frame is from ca. 2000, the guy wasn't really sure (he had like 30 road bikes, apparently this was one of the only Italian frames he could bear to part with).
 
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